Insight vs Infinity on Merc

[AsianChexMix]

I have a question about my current MFing Fishymancer. I am using Insight on my merc because I figure the mana regeneration is amazing. I've been using that and I can spam CE without worrying about it. Now my question is that I am thinking of maxing Skeleton Mages. Do I really need to do mages on this build? If it's nice, then would I need to get Infinity to maximize the output of damage? Should I trade-off mana regeneration for it? If not, then exactly where do I put the remainder of these points? I got 17 built up and I'm level 87. Thanks guys!

[Thirteenth]

Infinity would boost your CE damage too since 50% of the damage is Fire

Would be a great choice since it also has CB for bosses... go with infinity

[NumtyDoo]

Infinity is better for your merc than insight, even if you decide not to use mages. It boosts CE damage as well, which means less CE's needed, which means more mana in your bowl.

[McCain123]

Make an Iron Golem out of a crappy Insight and you can have both.

[AsianChexMix]

Is that true? Making Iron Golem from Insight would give me the Meditation Aura?

[sequoia]

I'm considering putting pride on my merc instead of infinity.

edit: Yes, insight iron golem would be great. You want to make it in something low damage, like a voulge. Even better, max out golem mastery to make it pretty durable, and even if it does die, insight is pretty cheap.

[NumtyDoo]

Sequoia, here is a pride vs infinity comparison.

It is pretty universally agreed upon that Infinity is better than pride on your merc.

Without ED on pride, your going to have a 200 damage weapon versus a 900-1000 damage weapon with infinity.

So not only is your merc's damage nerfed with pride, pride freezes target, which means popped bodies, which means no CE, without CE your killing speed is really going to slow down.

Infinity has 40% CB which really helps you get that 1st body faster for your CE chain, also infinity's aura boosts CE damage, which means faster killing speed, and less CE's needed to get the job done, which means more mana in your blue bowl. As you can see, even without mages, infinity is better than pride.

Obedience is probably the best after infinity.

I actually even prefer insight over pride on my merc, as the damage is higher and gets that 1st body faster, the unlimited mana is nice too.

The only way I recomend pride is in an iron golem, but that is too rich for my blood, cause they poof sometimes.

[Meenah]

Also, the conviction aura on infinity lowers defense which means more hits from your boney boys.

[Wizdomm]

Make an Iron Golem out of a crappy Insight and you can have both.

Yep. Insights are very cheap to make. Make sure you maxed golem mastery if you plan on using iron golems. Even then , they sometimes poof for no apparent reason...but the Insight runes are so easy to find that you will likely have a backup when/if the current golem disappears.

[sequoia]

Sequoia, here is a pride vs infinity comparison.

Wow, I had NO IDEA that pride had no ED on it whatsoever. What a bad merc weapon... the only real option would be to make a pride IG. Although with 3 hrs in it alone, I don't think I will be doing that...

[Wizdomm]

Wow, I had NO IDEA that pride had no ED on it whatsoever. What a bad merc weapon... the only real option would be to make a pride IG. Although with 3 hrs in it alone, I don't think I will be doing that...


Well, although the weapon itself has no ED, the concentration aura does improve the merc's damage of course. But it doesn't make up for the incredible damage on Infinity...or the massive crushing blow on Infinity.

[lumpor]

The concentration doesn't make up for it. Concentration gives off-weapon ed, which stacks with other sources of off-weapon ed, making the concentration not make up for it.

[AsianChexMix]

I guess now that I got that established that Infinity > Insight, I should get something squared away. I'm a MF Fishymance and I have maxed RS, SM, and CE with +1 to everything other skill that was slightly useful in my opinion (with my + skills, I get +14 on curses and the rest are +12). As we can say, I want an Infinity and put that on my merc and make an iron golem out of my current Insight. Reasoning is that I wanted to use the Meditation for my mana and then the Conviction for my skeleton mages (the original reason why I posted the question between Infinity vs Insight). I heard mages are more effective this way too. The thing is, I got 29 skill points left. I was wondering if a) this is a good idea and if so then b) how should I allocate these points? I decided that instead of creating a new thread I'd just create a new post.

[Wizdomm]

I guess now that I got that established that Infinity > Insight, I should get something squared away. I'm a MF Fishymance and I have maxed RS, SM, and CE with +1 to everything other skill that was slightly useful in my opinion (with my + skills, I get +14 on curses and the rest are +12). As we can say, I want an Infinity and put that on my merc and make an iron golem out of my current Insight. Reasoning is that I wanted to use the Meditation for my mana and then the Conviction for my skeleton mages (the original reason why I posted the question between Infinity vs Insight). I heard mages are more effective this way too. The thing is, I got 29 skill points left. I was wondering if a) this is a good idea and if so then b) how should I allocate these points? I decided that instead of creating a new thread I'd just create a new post.

I am a fan of mages but if you really want to use Insight (via Iron Golem) then you really have to max golem mastery rather than mages with those remaining skill points. Otherwise, your Insight golem won't last too long.

[halohalo]

I know this thread is about infinity vs insight mostly. But if you asked me what is the best merc weapon, I'd say it's whatever that gives good boost to CB and damage.

The reason is that since my main dmg dealer is CE, what matters is how fast you get one corpse or two to start your CE chain-action, and not how much total damage your army do. I use my skellies and revives mainly to extend the frontline and give room for my merc to hit things without being mobbed. As soon as my merc does the job of killing one monster, I start spamming CE.

Speaking of spamming CE, I personally think '+mana after each kill' mods works great with CE. I do not have to worry about mana regen this way. And if I am ever short of mana (which rarely happens), I use pots. Do I have to run to town often for restock? No, because there are plenty on the ground whenever you kill a group of monsters.

Now about skellie mages.. I am not a big fan of them for three reasons. 1) The cold mages often interferes with the corpse creation because they let monsters 'pop' die. 2) They tend to block the narrow passages so my skellie swordies are often held behind (unless you have enigma or tele ability). 3) They do crappy damage. Even if they did decent damage, often their aims are never concentrated to a single monster.

That said, I see no reason why one should want Infinity as a merc weapon. Mages do not really help you initiate the CE.

Now if you consider yourself a MF person you would at some point consider doing baal runs. Not just minions but baal himself too. CB on merc gears drastically reduce your time of taking baal down. Having 60% CB cut my baal killing time to almost 10 to 1. One might say why kill baal when mephy runs are quicker. Agreed, but you get better items while getting to baal. At least I did. My best gears were all found in the world stone keep.

So in short I think CB gears are the way to go for merc. Insight or Infinity, I really wouldn't care.

[Wizdomm]

I know this thread is about infinity vs insight mostly. But if you asked me what is the best merc weapon, I'd say it's whatever that gives good boost to CB and damage.


Well, Infinity has a very nice crushing blow on it...and is high damage. And that's without mentioning the Conviction aura. So I'm not sure what else you could want in a merc weapon.

Now about skellie mages.. I am not a big fan of them for three reasons. 1) The cold mages often interferes with the corpse creation because they let monsters 'pop' die. 2) They tend to block the narrow passages so my skellie swordies are often held behind (unless you have enigma or tele ability). 3) They do crappy damage. Even if they did decent damage, often their aims are never concentrated to a single monster.

They do decent enough damage with high end gear and the Conviction aura. But you are right about having a hard time getting them to focus on one enemy. You really need Engima for that. I'm a fan of the ol' telestomp method of killing enemies.


That said, I see no reason why one should want Infinity as a merc weapon. Mages do not really help you initiate the CE.


I think you are not quite understanding Infinity and Conviction aura. Conviction helps ALL your minions, not just mages, by lowering enemy defense. Also, Conviction helps your CE (CE is half-fire damage after all). And you still have the crushing blow on it.

[sequoia]

The issue for me right now is that the points are spread just too thin.

CE is too good to pass up in a 1 player environment (mf'ing on b.net), and skellie warriors and mastery must be maxed as well. If I want an insight golem then mastery must be done. To do mages means that I will be so incredibly tight on points, with no room for lower resist or the blood golem synergy.

[Greyeagle]

If I want an insight golem then mastery must be done.

That is not quite true. While it is nice to have mastery maxed, it isn't a must. First, with end game +skills gear, your golem will be plenty durable. Just make sure you use a low dmg normal polearm for the base. Second, insight is cheap as cheap can be. Just keep a spare in stock, and hold onto a couple sol's. You'll be able to easily keep yourself in insight.

Of course, another option is to boost your mana handling other ways. Throw on a homunculus and silkweaves and you'll find your CE much easier to handle. And, infinity on merc means fewer CE's needed thus less mana used. Still, insight golem is the best and easiest solution.

Now, if you're ever thinking of using your golem as a pride golem - then you want maxed mastery. Or a heavy bankroll, I suppose.

[sequoia]

If I do a pride golem, I will probably max blood golem too. And more than likely not max out CE, considering I won't have insight and don't want to burn myself.

[NumtyDoo]

you will nerf your killing speed big time if you are choosing a little more skellie damage over max CE range.

[sequoia]

Good point...

I am just scrambling for an excuse to get concentration under my feet at this point.