Skelly Summoner still good in hell?

[juzamaku]

Does a melee skeleton summoner works in Hell still?
Are skeletal mages still not wanted?
Should I go for Might or Defiance merc? (Or cold??)
Totally non twinked build here.
Thinking about:
20 Skeletal Mastery
20 Skeletal Warriors
1 Skeletal Mage
1+? Revives
1+? Golem Mastery
1+? Golem Points (not sure what golem to level and if I really want to)
1+ Curses
1+ Corpse Explosion

[Zarniwoop]

I have played a fishymancer (summoner) for many ladders.

It is devastating once built. If you can get your skellies pumped just a bit, 26+ you'll be fine.

Here is my build:

20 skeleton mastery
20 raise skeleton
20 raise skeletal mage
10 - 12 corpse explosion
10- 12 dim vision
1 in everything else.

If you don't like dim vision, you need to take a different crowd control spell for gloams and other things. Attract works well I've heard. I like dim vision because it just shuts down every ranged unit on the screen. At high levels it will affect places you cannot even see yet.

Do not put any points in fire golem. Do not put more than 1 point in any golem skill. Clay golem is the BEST golem. It will die endlessly until you get more + skill gear later. don't worry about it.

I'm serious, you do not need to sink more than one point into any other skills but the 5 listed to beat the entire game fairly easily. Oblivion knights will still suck, and until you get about 28 in your summoning skills the rare fanatical lightning enchanted double packs will clean your clock.

Grab a cheap vipermagi, a homunculus, an arm of king leoric, A necro helm with +2 summoning skills and resists or life, and a +3 necro summoning amulet and you're already at like 32 summoning skills and owning everything.

I have 28 summoning skills right now and the only thing that is giving me trouble is oblivion knights (and gloams because my + all skills isn't high enough yet to really pump dim vision). The writer of the fishymancer guide suggested 20 in dim vision. That certainly works. But, from experience I know that 10-15 is more than enough long term.

One note: to turn the summoning necro from a great class to a overpowered class, you will need an enigma.


Later in the ladder, my gear will be:

Head: shako
Armor: Enigma runeword
Boots: War Travellers
Weapon: Heart of the oak runeword in a flail
Shield: Homunculus with a perfect diamond socketed
Belt: Arachnid mesh OR Thundergods Vigor
Amulet: Either a great +3 summoning ammy, a +2 necro magic find, or a maras kaleidescope.
Rings - 2x nagels

Weapon switch: arm of king leoric (we have no need for a CTA).
Shield switch: Spirit in a monarch or another homunculus.



You can dress your merc in anything. But, you want to get him crushing blow. The way I typcially do it is to buy him a guillaime's facemask which has 35 perecent CB and costs pgems. People talk about using uber runewords for his weapon, but I always use an insight in a cryptic axe or thresher. Having plenty of mana is great and I tried using infinity and pride and it makes no real difference. I wipe out anything with or without them.

If you want to do UBER Tristram with a necro, then I do suggest you read the uber tristram guide for necros because you will need to make some changes.



Welcome to the necro class!

Z

[sequoia]

Of course, skelly summoners pretty much walk through anything in its path... except maybe hell nihlathak.

They're pretty resilient and can always be re-summoned, I'd say go with a might merc.

Mages - this is always a big debate, but in the end they're not quite as powerful as your skeletons and they are definitely nice to look at. Up to you on this one, really.

[juzamaku]

Cool guys, thanks for the tips...

[LonghornRob]

They're pretty resilient and can always be re-summoned, I'd say go with a might merc.

Mages - this is always a big debate, but in the end they're not quite as powerful as your skeletons and they are definitely nice to look at. Up to you on this one, really.

Meh, that's not entirely true. I've been doing pit runs and if there's a couple of boss archer packs in level two, chances are I'll be ending my run a bit early. Strong archers with multi shot, might or fanatacism auras will tear through your skellies, especially considering they already start off dealing cold damage. I've dim vision and attracted the crap out of them before, but once the skellies approach the archers, they're doomed.

[sequoia]

That's true, it's been about a year since I've played a fishy, but I do remember that nihlathak's pit vipers or any of the harpies (forget what they are called) with their red death balls definitely put them in pain as well.

[Greyeagle]

Meh, that's not entirely true. I've been doing pit runs and if there's a couple of boss archer packs in level two, chances are I'll be ending my run a bit early. Strong archers with multi shot, might or fanatacism auras will tear through your skellies, especially considering they already start off dealing cold damage. I've dim vision and attracted the crap out of them before, but once the skellies approach the archers, they're doomed.

Really? What +skills are you running at? What is your character level? I've never had my fishy's in end game gear have trouble with any boss pack. (Of course, those bugged pit vipers still kill them)

[Zelator]

Meh, that's not entirely true. I've been doing pit runs and if there's a couple of boss archer packs in level two, chances are I'll be ending my run a bit early. Strong archers with multi shot, might or fanatacism auras will tear through your skellies, especially considering they already start off dealing cold damage. I've dim vision and attracted the crap out of them before, but once the skellies approach the archers, they're doomed.

Spam clay golems in the middle of the pack and you should be fine.

[Bauer]

Meh, that's not entirely true. I've been doing pit runs and if there's a couple of boss archer packs in level two, chances are I'll be ending my run a bit early. Strong archers with multi shot, might or fanatacism auras will tear through your skellies, especially considering they already start off dealing cold damage. I've dim vision and attracted the crap out of them before, but once the skellies approach the archers, they're doomed.

Had the same problem in the 80s. The archer packs with a unique boss would rape me. Once I got a few levels and better + skill gear it became to be no problem.

With +27 skills and max lightning resist I have 0 problems in any part of hell atm and do some pretty quick baal runs.

[Zarniwoop]

At level 83 the only way I get in trouble is if I run into two packs of serious fanatical and electrically enchanted. And even then, more likely than not, I will get a corpse on the ground and it's over and they lose.

The only thing that makes me sigh is oblivion knights. And once I get an enigma, they won't bother me at all.

[juzamaku]

Is that +Ressist to all skill in the summon tree any good?

[LonghornRob]

Really? What +skills are you running at? What is your character level? I've never had my fishy's in end game gear have trouble with any boss pack. (Of course, those bugged pit vipers still kill them)

level 74 and they're at slvl 27 right now. The other problem is the skellies don't always go straight for the archers, so they get ripped apart while they're trying to beat up a devilkin. I tried once to tele them to the archers... yeah, I should have known better than that. I do agree, though, that once one of them goes down life ends up being a whole lot better.

And there's an easy solution to the pit vipers... don't fight them at all and keep the pindle portal open.

[Zarniwoop]

Dim vision the archers and they shoot no arrows and do no damage.

You NEVER want to go into nilathak's temple because it closes anya's portal and all those easy summons you can do at the start of every game.

As a necro you MUST have a crowd control skill. Attract or Dim vision are the best imo, and of the 2 Dim Vision is the more predictable.

[vladgd]

You NEVER want to go into nilathak's temple because it closes anya's portal and all those easy summons you can do at the start of every game.

im pretty sure you mean, you NEVER want to get the wp for nilathak's temple.

because i hit pat on my fishy last night, and i did a few baal runs today and the red portal is still open for quick corpses.

[Cepti]

Dim vision the archers and they shoot no arrows and do no damage.

You NEVER want to go into nilathak's temple because it closes anya's portal and all those easy summons you can do at the start of every game.

As a necro you MUST have a crowd control skill. Attract or Dim vision are the best imo, and of the 2 Dim Vision is the more predictable.

Honestly i've always run a summoning build and have not once used attract or dim vision. Never really been in an situation where it's absolutely needed and felt that the points were better spent somewhere else. While I do understand the use of it, I just move around and where most people say 10-12 points of dim i'm thinking mages would be better.

However this time around I am considering trying 10-12 dim just because it's something I have yet to try. Along with a slightly different setup this time but the biggest question I have is about the aura IG, Is it really worth the risk of losing and if so, how high should mastery be taken to?

Another thing is that for everything except Gloams, 1-5 points of bone prison is a very easy cure, or even wall but i prefer prison since it doesn't always block your path and since it traps the target. Using a method I had with my Boner especially for act bosses i'd just spam prison 4-8 times and the every act boss except for Diablo would not be able to break it. As for Diablo 1 point fire golem makes a good tank against him however Clay golem is just fine for that so there is no real need to waste an extra point.

Now the problem I am in lies with the Dim Vision points, If I were to do that i'd have a build like this: http://diablo3.ingame.de/spiel/skills/calc/index.php?lang=en&char=nec&diff=2&set=0,0,0,0,20,0,20,0,1,0,1,0,12,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0 ,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,12,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,5,0,0,0,0,0,1,0, 10,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,0

However without Dim Vision i'd be able to further increase my Mages, along with getting Lower Resist and possibly a few extra points in Summon Resist which would be the best option in my opinion unless the necro is already completely geared. The reason of getting Lower Resist is for multi player games obviously. I have yet to try max mages though, in my old builds i've maxed CE instead, increased Revive a bit and Summon Resist but looking at http://tph.tuwien.ac.at/~gottwald/necro_pet_calculator.html I can see that they could hold some value for added damage and more mob buffer centered around me.

Keep in mind that I chose to set a build goal of 85 as it's the easiest attainable and you can fill in the blanks with any extra levels you'd gain.

I'd like some opinions on this aswell.

[Spamisgood]

However without Dim Vision i'd be able to further increase my Mages, along with getting Lower Resist and possibly a few extra points in Summon Resist which would be the best option in my opinion unless the necro is already completely geared. The reason of getting Lower Resist is for multi player games obviously. I have yet to try max mages though,
Keep in mind that I chose to set a build goal of 85 as it's the easiest attainable and you can fill in the blanks with any extra levels you'd gain.


Personally I would never spend more than maybe 4 points in summon resist and never more than 1 in lower resist. Summon resist will be buffed plenty by all of your +skill items, enough that your minions will never fear magic. (Save those insanely buffed archer boss packs, but no amount of summon resist will save you from them)

Lower resist...it is a party spell, but only when there is more magic damage than physical damage in your 8 player game. And rarely is there a person, or group of persons that can outdamage my level 41 skeletons with amp damage. I am not going to waste my curse using lower resist when I could make my army (and the occasional non-sorcs) deal double damage. And don't foget, most paladins (the second most played class behind sorc) want you casting amp damage too.

[LonghornRob]

Dim vision the archers and they shoot no arrows and do no damage.



Yes, until your melee skeletons walk right to their face and start bashing, at which point they get a face full of arrows. Or the archers fan out and suddenly I'm casting DV all over the place, my skellies are falling to pieces, and I am realizing it's a lost cause. Your skeletons are not impenetrable, and there are situations where you simply aren't going to win, as with every other character in the game. Fortunately, those situations are few and far between.

[Greyeagle]

level 74 and they're at slvl 27 right now. The other problem is the skellies don't always go straight for the archers, so they get ripped apart while they're trying to beat up a devilkin. I tried once to tele them to the archers... yeah, I should have known better than that. I do agree, though, that once one of them goes down life ends up being a whole lot better.

Well there are two issues as to why you are having any trouble with the archers. One is that you are level 74, and the other is that you 'only' have +7 to your summon skills.

Honestly, once you are above 80 and have more plus skills you will wonder why you even thought about those archers before. The skeletons will be able to tank the worst of them without trouble. +skills is easily achieved with pgems.

However, beyond raw power the summoner has other options to deal with the situation at this early stage. The summoner is the class that I don't concern myself with what level I walk into hell at. He's that capable.

If your skellies are dying, there are a couple of solutions. One, remove the damage source. People have mentioned DV and attract. They work well, although dim vision gets much better when maxed. Confuse is fun for those of us that like a chaotic situation. Two, heal the skeletons. Flash life tap on every once in a while in a scary fight and your wall won't crumble.

Another option for absorbing damage for the skeletons is to cast gumby into the middle of the archer pack. Although this tactic will also tend to disperse the archers. You can recast him as he dies until your skellies get up to the archers.

Honestly though, your best option may be to not bother with lvl 85 areas until you've leveled some more. I tend to skip them on my first pass through hell (or at least for the first few acts).

[ChaoticMonkey]

I have a question, you said summon necros don't need a CTA? Why is that, does it not affect them?

[NumtyDoo]

The boost from BO on skellies is really weak. It only affects their base life. A skellie with 6k life might get 6.2k life after BO.

[Zarniwoop]

Of course, skelly summoners pretty much walk through anything in its path... except maybe hell nihlathak.

They're pretty resilient and can always be re-summoned, I'd say go with a might merc.

Mages - this is always a big debate, but in the end they're not quite as powerful as your skeletons and they are definitely nice to look at. Up to you on this one, really.


Hell nilathak is easier with a necro than any other class. If it isn't, you're doing it wrong.