Quick question

[kenw]

Could someone tell me where I should allocate my stat/skill points,if I were to create a BvB barbarian on ladder.

Addtionally,I would like to know which shield would be altogether better for the build.

Blue Pavise

129 def
94 str req
30/20
26 pr
10% dtm
-30 req

Gold Grim shield
302 def
58 str req
30/20
5 cr
25 fr
+1 str

[HegemonKhan]

2 types of BVB: low defense or high defense

for low defense ("noob") bvb:

most do sword back, twitch, gnasher, goblin toe (i think. i am NOT knowledgible in this. ASK OTHERS who know about bvb and duels). enoughs str/dex for gear. rest into vit. i do NOT know about skill placement if your using a low level barb.

for high defense ("elite") bvb:

godly rares with high defense ratings. godly rare BH (range 1, more damage) or godly rare naga (range 3, less damage). godly rare grim shield with high def and 30/20 block and thorns. godly rare grim helm with high def. godly rare ornate with high def and p ruby soj cube recipe socket and -30% req and +life mods. godly rare rings and amulet. godly rare boots and gloves. etc. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. for high lvl def bvb the skills u wanna max are ww, shout, wm (weapon mastery=axe or mace), iron skin, bo (unless u pre-buff it from an other max bo barb).

i do not have any knowledge on this so ask others to give u the real insight on bvb'ing.

[kenw]

2 types of BVB: low defense or high defense

for low defense ("noob") bvb:

most do sword back, twitch, gnasher, goblin toe (i think. i am NOT knowledgible in this. ASK OTHERS who know about bvb and duels). enoughs str/dex for gear. rest into vit. i do NOT know about skill placement if your using a low level barb.

for high defense ("elite") bvb:

godly rares with high defense ratings. godly rare BH (range 1, more damage) or godly rare naga (range 3, less damage). godly rare grim shield with high def and 30/20 block and thorns. godly rare grim helm with high def. godly rare ornate with high def and p ruby soj cube recipe socket and -30% req and +life mods. godly rare rings and amulet. godly rare boots and gloves. etc. enough str/dex for gear. rest into vit. for high lvl def bvb the skills u wanna max are ww, shout, wm (weapon mastery=axe or mace), iron skin, bo (unless u pre-buff it from an other max bo barb).

i do not have any knowledge on this so ask others to give u the real insight on bvb'ing.

Thanks for the prompt response but I knew all of that already.I merely want to know where to allocate the stat and skill points and also which shield should I use.I'm leaning more towards high def in this build since I have the required shield and an 888 life dual res -30 req ornate.

EDIT:I read your reply thoroughly and I have a question: shouldn't a bvb use angelic ammy + 2 ang rings combo and goblin toe?

[HegemonKhan]

sorry, about the post since u already knew most of it. i think i kinda mention about the skills and stats though u might wanna ask a real expert on bvb. i am not one.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
your questions and my responses (directly, instead of hidden within my long essay post):

1. the grim shield is better than the pavise shield in my opinion. its got more def and better mods, imo (in my opion), as well.

2. stats: all into vit! except, what str/dex (probably don't need any dex because u should be doing a BH or naga, both of which only have a str req, and weapons are the only gear type that has dex req) u need for gear.

3. skills:

3a. for a low level bvb (limited skills): i do NOT know what is best skill placement (or skills) when u have a limited amound of skill pts due to low char lvl. u'll have to ask a real pro on this.

3b. for a high level bvb (maximum skills= ~80-90 skills to use): max (20) into: ww, wm (weapon mastery=axe or mace), shout, bo or ironskin (depends whether u gonna use another barb for bo so u can put them into iron skin and let the other barb bo u or not. Obviously, it be better to put 20 into iron skin and get the bo from a bo barb). 1 pt into battle cry (this is great: 50% defense reduction to them but very hard/dangerous to cast it on opponent in duel). and other basic misc 1 pt skills and of course prerequisite skills.

4. as for your question about angelic rings (and angelic amulet): if u need the AR to hit than u MUST use them. if your rare rings with 150? AR (can't remember if rings can get 150 AR or not) is good enough for being able to hit than they are better since the other mods that u can have on them and than u can have a rare amulet too with +2 barb skill and other mods, where angelic rings only provide AR and the angelic amulet isn't that great compared to a rare amulet.

*since angelics give so much AR, making defense pretty much useless, some might wanna have angelics banned when dueling due to how unfair they are to the usefulness (and purpose) of having a (high) defense.

5. as for your question about goblin toe: if u need the 25% CB (crushing blow) than use it. if not than use a rare boots for more def and other mods.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
hopefully this post is useful for u this time. :D

[Lorg]

Hmmm

Twicher + sb build does not use gnasher ^^

Twichers use as good bh, naga or -30 req exe thay can find. Same goes for def bvb naturally. Gnasher just does not 'cut' it. Bh's seems to be the 'best' weapon atmo. Ranging is hard due to lag. Last ladder i used a 175 dmg bh, 51-137 naga and 111 dmg -30 req exe (nagas stats were best , then bh and last exe, but its not easy to find 180 ed -30 req execs...). Imo duels were much easier with the bh. Naga and exe were pretty close in effectiveness. Althought i had bit better nate when i used the exe.

Most of the high level def users do not go for vita build. Base str is more likely 150-170 and depending on the quality of the rares one posses reaches well over 200 (-30 req ornates are not generally used for bvb for bva they might be). Imo 3000 hp or so is good enough. After that only str. The need to finish twichers fast before they lame bleed your life away and cb somewhat diminishing the edge of high vita builds most of the bvb def barbs (that i know) go for the aforementioned 150-170 str base.

[Akse]

Actually if u got 200 def pavise(not sure about its maximum def). You lose 100 def(before shouts/skins not sure how much it is after) but gain 4% block.

I dunno but 4% less hit is quite a lot, I doubt u can get that with the 100 def.

I have this type of iron barb with exec sword. 11k def now but it's not really a good bvb barb. 4.5k ar I dont use angelics.

I have about 2.4k hp 200+ str and quite high dex aswell. It's just some sort of oldschool bvb baba build with only 11 in bo.. max iron skin and shout. I made it in 1.08.

Anyways I had a question also. Now that the ww hits quite a lot and leech is removed are 2h's like lance any good again? I remember they kinda ruled the fields before LOD (altho wasn't match for good s/s).

[Lorg]

Even kicky lances are not good 4 bvb. Shields cut hits down too much. Besides same ed martel is better than lance anyway. Avg dmg and especially higher min is better in martel and ranging with 5 vs 3 is harder to estimate than 3 vs 1.

Imo Lance is purely a bvc weapon nowadays. Best used on speeder.

[EagleEntek]

Ive always seen rattlecage barbs with lances take down everything - ppl going on about 12k defence etc - you watch them walk outside and bang down they go.

The twitchthroe route always seemed the safest to me - bleed em and run.

My def bvb has 9k defence and ive always died from everything - maybe someone can do a usefull bvb barb post with extra emphasis on the defence barb and how to make one - with pointers like what gear to use - and explain what that gear is used FOR and what all those 30/20 stats mean for guys like me who cant look at a page full of numbers without scratching my head :thumbup:

[fledgeling]

If my calculations are correct, using the assumptions that:
both barbs are level 80, both have BASE 9000 ar and 9000 defense, the shield has 302 def and 65% block, while pavise has 129 def and 69% block and level 21 shout/iron skin multiply the defense by 530%*

...the chance to hit a barb holding the pavise is 0,147494185
and the chance to hit the barb holding the shield is 0,160714286

Please note that the better the pavise, the lower the chance to be hit.

This would mean that for each 100 hits, the pavise barb is hit 14,7 times and the shield barb 16 ~ around 8% more.

Also blue pavises look nice :)


*Im not sure if it is 302 + 530% * 320 or just 530% * 302, took the 2nd one


If anyone could provide me with the number of FPS diablo uses (25? 60?), I could calculate how many times does one barb hit other per second (I think they have 4frames per attack) and perhaps try to work on my excel spreadsheet that would figure out whether one should put pts into str or life.

[deichsela]

Diablo2 runs at 25fps.

[Akse]

If my calculations are correct, using the assumptions that:
both barbs are level 80, both have BASE 9000 ar and 9000 defense, the shield has 302 def and 65% block, while pavise has 129 def and 69% block and level 21 shout/iron skin multiply the defense by 530%*

...the chance to hit a barb holding the pavise is 0,147494185
and the chance to hit the barb holding the shield is 0,160714286

Please note that the better the pavise, the lower the chance to be hit.

This would mean that for each 100 hits, the pavise barb is hit 14,7 times and the shield barb 16 ~ around 8% more.

Also blue pavises look nice :)


*Im not sure if it is 302 + 530% * 320 or just 530% * 302, took the 2nd one


If anyone could provide me with the number of FPS diablo uses (25? 60?), I could calculate how many times does one barb hit other per second (I think they have 4frames per attack) and perhaps try to work on my excel spreadsheet that would figure out whether one should put pts into str or life.

Hey thanks for that :) Yea I agree pavises look better at least if u got crown aswell. But with grim helm the grim shield is quite nice :) That damage to mana mod in shield is great for bvb. U often run out of mana and that will help with it.

[kenw]

I wasn't anticipating an onslaught of replies,lol.Thanks for all of your clever suggestions.I would like to know which shield I should use,though hihi

[fledgeling]

Read my post again then

[kenw]

ok so I guess pavise!

Oh yeah and have you found the answer to this?:

If anyone could provide me with the number of FPS diablo uses (25? 60?), I could calculate how many times does one barb hit other per second (I think they have 4frames per attack) and perhaps try to work on my excel spreadsheet that would figure out whether one should put pts into str or life.

thanks

[deichsela]

Diablo II runs at 25fps.

"In classic, Whirlwind speed is set to 4 frames, and therefore will always attack every 4 frames regardless of your weapon speed."
- Orphan, http://diablo.incgamers.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-572915.html

6.25 attacks per second

[fledgeling]

is this that pavise?

http://i323.photobucket.com/albums/nn457/kenwill/bvbpavise.jpg