Basic necro questions

[Tsumaru]

Alright, I've played a fair bit of D2 back in the day; but the new D3 trailers got me re-excited. This is my first time playing a necro. Now, I've never really been fond of following other peoples' guides, so I'm making my own build. Of course, generally there are things which are significantly better than others so it will most likely end up pretty similar to builds already out there. But I do have a few questions.

Now I hesitate to outline my build entirely, mostly because I haven't really figured it all out yet, and also because I don't want everybody jumping down my throats saying "omg that sucks, do this". But what I'm looking at is basically working with Bone Spirit (extra skill points in synergies for it too, of course), a number of summons (either Revives or Skeletons, with Skeleton Mastery beefing them up), and having one good curse to work with to support me (maybe two if necessary depending on what you say to answer my questions). I'm playing the game with my brother over LAN who is a Barbarian, so I don't care if I don't have the most ultimate perfect build ever. It's just for fun, and he'll probably do most of the killing anyway. So yeah.

Anyway, first off the board is about Decrepify. I've been having trouble deciding what curse to go with. Decrepify sounded good, but I was a little concerned about Hell and the physical immunes. How does the -50% physical resistance affect physical immune monsters exactly?

I've also been reading around trying to decide where to go with my summoning. I was leaning towards Revive, but searching around the forums a bit seems like most people aren't fond of them. Is the AI really that bad? Should I stick with a bunch of skeletons then - would that be the safer bet?

What do you guys reckon?
Thanks a lot.

[NumtyDoo]

Look in the guide stickies for fishymancer, it is your best bet for a starter necro. He does ok with self found gear, and his point placement is so unimportant, that when you do get the awesome gear you don't have to remake him.

[Mad Mantis]

But what I'm looking at is basically working with Bone Spirit (extra skill points in synergies for it too, of course), a number of summons (either Revives or Skeletons, with Skeleton Mastery beefing them up), and having one good curse to work with to support me (maybe two if necessary depending on what you say to answer my questions).

Welcome Newcomer to The Darkness. Grab a brew :guiness: and feel free to raise some corpses.

Bone/Summon Hybrids are pretty hard to do with the dissapearence of the Marrowwalk bug. What is comes down to is which of the two parts you like best.


How does the -50% physical resistance affect physical immune monsters exactly?

When breaking immunes a curse functions at 1/5th efficiency. So Decrep can break immunities up to 109% Physical resist. Amp can break immunities up to 119% physical resist. You're bound to get both of them, so try it first with Decrep and if that doesn't work, or you can manage without the slow, take Amp.


Is the AI really that bad? Should I stick with a bunch of skeletons then - would that be the safer bet?

When it comes to following you, the AI is that bad. Don't expect too many Revives to follow you to the next area without a form of teleport to herd them. Some monsters seem to be better at following than others, but it is still pretty bad.
Skellies are much easier to work with, but depending on what you want from them, need more skill points. Revives are much cheaper.

[lumpor]

Decreptify is a good curse to help a barbarian. It lowers the enemies physical resistance by 50%. On immunes, this only works at 1/5 effiency, so it'll only lower the enemies resistance by 10%. So if the immune has 105% physical resistance, you will be able to do damage to it with physical damage. You wont if the enemy has 115% though. But what you've missed is amplify damage. It lowers physical resistance by 100%, and 20% against immunes. So it's much better to use against immunes than decreptify. Even if decreptify will break the immunity, amp will do it with a bigger marginal. If the enemy for example has 105% physical resistance from the beginning, it will have 95% resistance when decreptified and 85% resistance when it has recieved amplify damage. That's 3 times as much damage with amp. If the enemy has 115% physical resistance, amp will break it, but decrep won't. So Always use amp against immunes. Against non-immunes, you'll probably most often use amp as well, since barbarians don't die so easily, meaning you can go offensive and there will be no need for the defensive advantages of decreptify except against enemies that pose a threat. So the only time you should use decreptify over amp is against non-immunes that pose an offensive threat. Dim vision should be your curse of use when not helping your friend though, if you want to make yourself more effective. It makes enemies just stand there, while you go back and start spamming spirits

Revives are good. As 1-point wonders that is. More points only increase the number you're allowed to have, and with a decent amount of +skills, you'll be able to summon more than you need (or want for that matter). It's way too bothersome to transport them without an enigma (which gives you teleport), so you'll only revive for the battle, and then leave them be when all monsters nearby are dead. If you have enigma though, I still wouldn't need more than 10 (which is about what you'll get with only 1 point and a decent amount of +skills), because revives do puny damage. In hell difficulty, characters can take little damage, but inflict lots of damage, while monsters can take alot of damage, but inflict little damage. This applies to earlier difficulties too, but it gets more extreme the later in the game you get. So revives (which have about the same damage as before they were revived) do puny damage later, but almost never die (though they dissapear if you're like 1 screen away from them). That means revives mostly serve as tanks, and 5-10 of them really are enough.

Even skeletons are't that good for a boner, who needs many skill points, you said that you didn't want to hear people correct some tiny issues, so I'll just say what I recommend what to put in the summoning tree if you want to be a bone/summon hybrid. 20 points in raise skeleton, and 1 point in all other summoning skills except fire golem. Clay golem should be your golem of use (has most life and a slowing effect). Don't count on it to do any damage though. If you want to sacrifice bone spell damage for skeleton damage, put more points in skeleton mastery, but I think 1 point is enough.

[Tsumaru]

Thanks a lot everyone for the replies, everyone. A great help - much appreciated. =)

[LonghornRob]

Revives may come in handy in Hell. When you're going up against a dangerous creature type, Revive the first one as soon as you can, and then grab a few more for fun. Rangers, Urdars, Blood Lords, dolls, frenzytaurs etc. can pack quite a nice punch, and they can really help turn the tide if you're fighting a mob. They will also take hits your brother the Barb would normally have taken, so I'm sure he'll appreciate that. You won't get to keep them for too much longer afterward because they won't follow, though. Still, I'd say they're worth a small investment in points.

[blissfullslayer]

ya i would avoid skellies if your going with bone spirit as your main skill, your looking at 40 points to make skellies effective, but only 20 to make revives, and revives live for a long time at that skill lvl. then get a merc with insight to help with the mana cost of revive, even put lets say 5 points in ce for some clearing power, and really the only curses i find worth using are amp, decrep, and lower resist is good as well for parties, but needs at least 10 points to break immunes, hope this helps ya some

[NumtyDoo]

you don't need 20 in revive. one is usually enough, after + skills you will have around 10ish. Without a source of tele, you will have trouble even maintaining that many.

I agree with the others, if you want to go spear/spirit, I would use revive instead of skellies.

[Tsumaru]

Haha, a lot of conflicting information out here for the Revives vs Skellies. For those of you saying revives with spear/spirit; is that solely because I can put less into Revives and keep the rest of the skill points for spear/spirit and synergies?

[lumpor]

Yes. I wouldn't recommend skellies, since they take too many points. You should get revives regardless, even if you get skellies (but 1 point in revives is enough). Bone spirit has 4 synergies, and it needs most of them maxed to be effective. That why bone hybrids aren't that popular. Of course it's your call, and you'll probably do fine with whatever you take, but I think you'll attain more overall efficiency not using skeletons, since the points that you put there could've gone to a spirit synergy (I recommend bone wall + prison first to make your bone armor stronger)

Oh, and if you really want to have summons, but still fight on your own, poison/summon hybrids fit you the best. Poison skills only take 60 points altogether, meaning they got some spare points for summons. Basic build is maxed poison dagger, poison explosion, poison nova and raise skeleton. 1 point in lower resist, and 1 point in all summoning skills except fire golem. Spare points into skeleton mastery. Most important gear is trangs ouls gloves, trang ouls shield, trang ouls belt, deaths web and bramble runeword. Rest of the gear focused on +skills and poison facets in all the sockets