View Full Version : Should Gold Stay Meaningless?
I want to here some opinions on this, should gold have little value in D3 like it does now, or should it replace runes and items as a currency?
amusingtugboat
01-07-2008, 08:56
i like how the items are currency instead of gold and i want it to stay that way. Just to keep the diablo feel.
Gold should still have some meaning. Repairs and buying respecs should be Gold only, maybe quest reward for respec.
If Blizzard stays true to their words and crack down on dupes (SOJ), I am not sure the whole item trading system would work so well.
On one hand, I like the extra interaction between players when bartering for items. But I really dislike the idea of sitting in trade channels, spamming all day just to get a potential buyer interested. So I am leaning towards making in-game currency useful again.
We need to change to rupee's.
http://www.inkandscissors.com/ablesisters/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=118&g2_serialNumber=2
If Blizzard stays true to their words and crack down on dupes (SOJ), I am not sure the whole item trading system would work so well.
On one hand, I like the extra interaction between players when bartering for items. But I really dislike the idea of sitting in trade channels, spamming all day just to get a potential buyer interested. So I am leaning towards making in-game currency useful again.
True but other items that are more common than SOJs could become more of a standard. Also, it seems runes my exist, as well as Pgems. Not to mention, who knows if they will really prevent duping, the hackers always seem to find a way.
EDIT: I'm all for rupees :p
I believe that they will change the current trading standard to gold, on the other hand both might be viable. Who really knows, diablo has always changed in what was a hot trading commodity at that certain time.
I hope it has some worth. There is little point in it even existing if it is worthless.
mjkittredge
01-07-2008, 10:23
I hated the constant merc ressurection costs and death penalty gold loss. I hope they find a better way to have a meaningful death penalty that doesn't erode hours worth of work.
It would be nice to say "Here's a million gold for that high level set item, Deal? Ok, here you go!" I wouldn't mind trading items for gold, as well as for other items.
I hated the constant merc ressurection costs and death penalty gold loss. I hope they find a better way to have a meaningful death penalty that doesn't erode hours worth of work.
It would be nice to say "Here's a million gold for that high level set item, Deal? Ok, here you go!" I wouldn't mind trading items for gold, as well as for other items.
Yea I agree, It would be cool to have gold hold some sort of importance while also being able to trade items for items. Basically if you have one or the other, it gives the players more options to attain goodies.
Yea I agree, It would be cool to have gold hold some sort of importance while also being able to trade items for items. Basically if you have one or the other, it gives the players more options to attain goodies.
Don't agree. What makes Diablo fun is the mf:ing, if items can be bought with gold(god forbird they put in an AH...) a huge part of the game is taken out. Also trading items for items,haggling, is a much more interesting way to trade.
blackrocksword
01-07-2008, 12:25
Gold isn't exactly meaningless in D2, it helped me net some nice rare rings and amulets (gamble, remember?).
If D3 doesn't change the value of gold (in terms of trading), I don't mind really.
Rashiminos
01-07-2008, 13:57
AH won't stop you from trading items for items if you want to...
Sometimes I barter when the currency system gets ridiculously inflated by greedy players and goldfarmers...
I hope gold will stay meaningless, not like in wow. Otherwise we'll have D3 goldfarms soon... Which is to be avoided.
Rashiminos
01-07-2008, 14:05
As if we didn't have runefarmers (er... rune dupers) now.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 14:22
I hope gold will stay meaningless, not like in wow. Otherwise we'll have D3 goldfarms soon... Which is to be avoided.
I would like to have a meaning behind gold. Okay, in the start of a fresh character gold is somewhat scarce and the higher you level, the more gold you have and so gold becomes useless.
You say WoW. In WoW gold is not rare at all. And the balance there of gold is quite okay pre-BC (pre-dailies). If they can pull that balance off in D3 it would be nice.
As if we didn't have runefarmers (er... rune dupers) now.
Agreed. But the D2 dupe rate can't be compared to goldfarming in wow... You can buy ingame gold vs real life money on 25698 different websites. To accieve this, those companies have Chinese goldfarms doing nothing but gathering gold. This is on a way more massive scale than for example runes in D2, mainly because D2 is an older game in the first place, but also because runes are harder to get than plain gold in WoW.
I only fear that if they don't hold the leaches tight, we get a same scenario in D3, which will be a massive popular game like WoW.
Therefor, I would say no-go for gold as main method of trading.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 14:31
Therefor, I would say no-go for gold as main method of trading.
Why can't they farm currency X?
Therefor, I would say no-go for gold as main method of trading.
nvm 10 chars
Why can't they farm currency X?
Yeah, true. But I think gold, being dropped from monsters all the time, is easier to collect than for example runes. But indeed, if they really want, they can farm anything.
If you could gamble for runes, with a thought-through possibility, and also gamble for a random flawless gem, you would have gold as a valid currency below Perfect Gems and runes I think. It's pretty much about having one currency overlap the next one.
I hope something like this will be the case, because gold alone gets dull. I'd rather have my riches in a handfull of runes and highly valued items than in 1000xxxx gold.
With gold as a real currency they should
- make it rarer to find
- don't include any gold limit
- make a real use for it (enhanced chances for gambling? buing really expensive materials for some cube recipes from vendors?)
- balance vendor prizes with item real value
afterall it works in WoW as I heard.
What I would like to have - a trade market where I could place my item in with a prize I would like for it. Without me being online, other people could visit the market, see all offered items, could list through them and pay for them. Trade would be done by computer, so trade scams would be reduced...
I don't think item currency is a good think. We have to mule our runes and Pgems and it's quite time-consuming and it eats inventory space and mule limit.
ooooooooh. being able to gamble for runes is an awesome idea. It could still be hard to get the elite ones, but would defintely make more people gamble.
Also, I am no un-opposed to an auction house if items are still currency. heres an example for how it could work in D2 today
Posted at AH: Enigma. To buy you have 3 options: CoH, 3 HR's, Arachnids Mesh + SOJ.
If you have any of those combos, you click on your payment method, put them in the AH and ship em away and you get the enigma. It would let people continue to play while they are trading
(For arguements sake lets say everything is legit in this example and duping doesnt exist)
etslayer
01-07-2008, 18:15
Gold simply can't be the currency for the following reasons:
(I have posted some of these points on other threads, but I am going to repeat myself)
1) we know that the items in the demo sell for 100-500 gold, and these look like noob items, meaning that higher level items probably sell for a decent amount. These items sell for less gold than they would in D2, but still enough to make gold abundant. Kill a boss and sell the items and make 1000 gold.
2) In games that rely on gold, such as WoW, there are many practical uses for gold within the game, SO much so that the game is virtually unplayable if you don't have gold. Therefore it has value. However in D1 and D2, the only uses for gold were repairing items, buying potions/scrolls (which are so cheep anyway) and resurrecting mercs. Assuming that D3 doesn't have siginificantly more essential uses for gold, gold will not be worth anything.
3) We already know that all diablo games have a LOT of items dropping all over the place. Anybody can just go out and kill monsters for a couple hours and return with a huge amount of gold. Nobody would trade a valuable item for it if they can just find it.
4) and the biggest reason for why the game will not revolve around gold is that the creators of diablo have stressed FAST paced gameplay. So I would assume that they don't want the players gameplay being haulted because they are short on gold. Why, in a game like diablo, would we be made to spend so much time gold hunting? It is an ITEM hunting game.
And that is why we will most likely not be seeing gold as currency. We might see a rarer, more useful unique item used as currency, but that would lead way to further bartering.
I value gold quite highly. I do a LOT of gambling and shopping for items. Mostly items that a lot of people consider junk but are just plain awesome for Low Level Dueling. (ex: magical 2PnB, 3 spear, 3 spirit, 20%fcr wands with a BIG prayer that they get 2os from Larzuk).
I even have my own gold-find barb, otherwise I would be trading for gold as well.
Keep gold useful!
toppknott
01-07-2008, 22:07
I have always enjoyed loading up on gold-find gear and raking in the (golden) dough. I have never had the patience or interest for magic-find runs and so prefer to either buy gear from vendors or wait for unqiues and rares to drop among the glittering, ginormous piles of gold which monsters so generously regurgitate in my path of destruction.
I never liked that items became the new "currency". I did like back when gems were currency, because compulsive gem hoarders like myself were able to buy unique items. If gems were available for sale at vendors, maybe gold would have some worth and die-hard fans of the precious metal would be rewarded for their dedication.
tetracycloide
01-07-2008, 22:54
Usable items like runes, equipment, or gems cannot be used as 'currency' because they have an intrensic value equal to what they are useful for. They were never used as actual 'currency' in D2 in the true sense of the word, merely as an aproximation for currency much like cigarettes in a prison. A truely well balanced trading economy is not based on barter mechanics like in D2, this requires a fiat money, in the real world that's cash in D3 it sould be gold.
In order for an economy to function properly it needs to be easy to ascertain the value of any given item realtive to other items, vendors and gold can do this very easily. Barter mechanics in D2 lead to difficulties pricing items, especially exceptionally rare items that do not get traded often. If the game economy was set up correctly on bnet the value of each item could even float based on how many were sold or purchased from vendors where frequent selling would drive subsequent prices down and vice versa.
It would be nice if gold had a value, especially after a few months still, but I don't see it happening. To make it happen, items would need a very low sale value, and then they would also have to lower repair costs and vendor prices, which in effect would put us back in the same situation, just with lower figures. Gold works for NPC interaction, but I think between players people will just trade for either other items or for materials (gems, runes). That used to be a lot of fun before duping got out of control.
stillman
02-07-2008, 00:18
I believe that D2 has been ruined by hacks/dupes etc brought in by the players. Therefore, it is time for Blizzard to put it's foot down and start beating the crap out of us. ALL OF US.
Let's suppose there is a currency called hrs in d3, which we will simply call "heavy rupees" for now. Now suppose some dupers got in and flooded the place with 1000's of hrs. I think Blizzard should just say "You know what? Screw all of you. We're pushing this pre made button that will erase every single last hr known to man on bnet. Even legit ones. All hrs are gone now. Hrs will never drop again until we take the salt shaker off of the button we are holding down. In the mean time, come up with the next currency people, and if it gets duped and we find out, we've got buttons for every item in the game. Gold, low runes, favorite uniques, you name it. So we'll one day take the salt shaker off the hrs button and let those drop again, and we'll just put the salt shaker on the button that deletes all the next currency you cheaters brought in." And then they can say, "We posted this. For those of you who are going to lose an account of hrs, you knew it was the currency and it was showing up in impossible amounts. Don't collect currencies that are being duped. Sorry about the legit ones but it's for the greater good. Hey, you should have used those when you had the chance. Thank you and enjoy the game, we won't let you know when hrs will drop again btw." And finally they could add, "What are you going to do, quit? Quit with all your power and hundreds of hours you logged on? You paid for the cd, sucker. Go ahead and quit."
Unless they can make new bnet airtight, these measures are necessary.
FireFiend
02-07-2008, 00:27
Also, I am no un-opposed to an auction house if items are still currency. heres an example for how it could work in D2 today
Posted at AH: Enigma. To buy you have 3 options: CoH, 3 HR's, Arachnids Mesh + SOJ.
If you have any of those combos, you click on your payment method, put them in the AH and ship em away and you get the enigma. It would let people continue to play while they are trading)
Not a bad idea, though might be complicated to implement if items have variable stats. Do you really want the system so complicated that you even specify the individual stats on a trade item you'll accept, like what percentage life leach that Eye of Etlitch does? What about rare items, which can't be quantified? Or the old favorite Cruel Etheral socketed weapons, etc.
An auction house-style listing and search system paired with an offline/online status indicator for the player who listed it and a description of what the want for it would be enough.
I love getting mailed from the AH when one of my auctions sell...so I'm all for a D3 AH over refreshing games/spamming channels
Poorlilbunny
02-07-2008, 02:39
gold was not always meaningless
Sequitur
02-07-2008, 02:51
I agree with most people, and would like to see gold becoming worth it's weight. Still while the dev's dictate how much of a role gold will play in the game (drop vs practical uses in towns, etc) it's also up to the players to take control of the economy. Guess we'll have to see how it plays out once launched.
I'm really hoping gold functions as a standard currency this time around.
It's a huge pain in the a$$ trading in d2 unless you use jsp, and i think we should prevent people like Paul Taulberg getting rich off something so meaningless.
Besides, if there's no in-game currency, d2jsp will definetly remain the standard. And if that's the case the market will be destroyed right off the bat beause of people that are totally loaded with thousands and even hundreds of thousands of FG. Blizzard can't just shut jsp down either, so many people have payed paul for this imaginary currency that it would result in massive law suits and a huge mess.
Bottom line: In-game currency is a MUST.
The reason why gold farming got so big in WoW is because of price gouging. Anything blue goes through the roof. If Items were price fixed on a public auction it might solve it, but then real unique items might not be well represented in price.
Keeping gold valuable is really as simple as having sinks for it, the key is keeping the market accessible to th average player, and not just those willing to buy farmed gold.
If economics were easy...
I think there could be a balance between what is currently happening in D2 and what could be in D3.
I would not like gold to become the main currency but I would like it to have more importance, it's got to be useful without becoming a kind of PITA.
I think that any kind of ''one item'' becoming a currency is a bad thing. What needs to be done is create opportunity for randomness. For example, a huge amount of Horadric formula that can create of a massive amount of mods that are very useful or not at all. Opportunities for more items to more people is what I'd like to see. I see randomness as a way of diminishing what will be duped and by also providing people with more ways of trading.
raveharu
02-07-2008, 04:44
Do you know why gold lost its value in Diablo2?
1)Items, they drop like no one's business. Rather than pick the gold up, we usually pick the items instead and sell them off for alot more $$$. Also there are tons of rares/uniques/set items in Diablo, who gives a damn about magical items?
2)NPCs. The equips sold by the NPCs are pure crap.Even in nightmare or hell modes, the items sold are still normal types, hilarious aint it.
3)Gambling. The gambling system in Diablo2 is pure crap. Since there's a thing call magic-finding, who would want to waste time finding gold to gamble when players could easily pawn Bosses and get rares/uniques/sets in a jiff?
In contrast with most MMORPGS:
1) the NPCs sells attractive items but at ridiculously high prices.
2) equips drop rates are attrocious. monsters drop their gold/etc more often, thus making gold the main currency in game.
Sequitur
02-07-2008, 04:49
Good point. Hopefully dev's can start by focusing on these basic issues when sorting out economy.
raveharu
02-07-2008, 04:55
However, I would like to add Diablo is for both single and multiplayer.
In single-player scenario, gold is important. I pick every single one of them.
Unlike in multiplayer whereby there are others to contribute to the galore of items/gold when you need them, single-player is all about soloing the entire game.
I think Blizzard has to balance between both scenarios.
gold was not always meaningless
It still isn't meaningless. Most player keep atleast 10k-100k on them when leveling up. Why? For when they die they don't lose massive amounts out of their stash. It's easier to just take the loss of gold thats on you.
mackemradge
02-07-2008, 14:10
I just throw my gold at new players in Normal games, gives them a leg up with a new character at low lvls
:thumbup:
Do you know why gold lost its value in Diablo2?
1)Items, they drop like no one's business. Rather than pick the gold up, we usually pick the items instead and sell them off for alot more $$$.
With good a good gold find % you can pick up a lot more in gold then you get from items. It also doesn't take up stash space, which is important as everyone is running around with an inventory full of charms.
Also there are tons of rares/uniques/set items in Diablo, who gives a damn about magical items?
A lot of people give a damn.
Think Jewelers Monarchs of Deflection, Fools greater talons of swiftness, 6 BO helms, 6 enchant sticks, 3 lightning skill 20 ias gloves , various blue tiara's/diadems etc.
Most of these items are worth more than the "common" uniques and set items.
2)NPCs. The equips sold by the NPCs are pure crap.Even in nightmare or hell modes, the items sold are still normal types, hilarious aint it.
Untrue, they sell higher level equipment as well. Most isn't usefull but they do sell some of the items I mentioned above sometimes.
3)Gambling. The gambling system in Diablo2 is pure crap. Since there's a thing call magic-finding, who would want to waste time finding gold to gamble when players could easily pawn Bosses and get rares/uniques/sets in a jiff?
You get to specifically select what you get instead of hoping for something in an MF run. Imagine how long it would take to roll 10 rings from mephisto. Then imagine how long it takes if you have some gold and just stand next to Gheed.
More importantly it is a great boon to crafters as they need specific items for their crafting. Crafted items can have the greatest value in the game, being truly unique and all.
This makes diablo II gold not worthless. Why else could you get a pul for 3 million in the last europe ladder season?
Erwwwd, great points and all ones I would have made myself had you not beat me to it. ;)
raveharu
08-07-2008, 08:02
With good a good gold find % you can pick up a lot more in gold then you get from items. It also doesn't take up stash space, which is important as everyone is running around with an inventory full of charms.
Uh huh, maybe a few people would've made it a point to get gold find items and charms to hunt gold, but basically its meaningless to get so much anyway.
A lot of people give a damn.
Think Jewelers Monarchs of Deflection, Fools greater talons of swiftness, 6 BO helms, 6 enchant sticks, 3 lightning skill 20 ias gloves , various blue tiara's/diadems etc.
Most of these items are worth more than the "common" uniques and set items.
Yes but given a scenario where a unique Corona were to drop with a magical Corona at the same time, which would players choose to loot first?
Untrue, they sell higher level equipment as well. Most isn't usefull but they do sell some of the items I mentioned above sometimes.
They sell higher level items but most of which are normal-type.
Then again my point was that would people even be bothered to see what the NPCs sold once they reached nm/hell modes, apart from certain staffs/wands and claws.
You get to specifically select what you get instead of hoping for something in an MF run. Imagine how long it would take to roll 10 rings from mephisto. Then imagine how long it takes if you have some gold and just stand next to Gheed.
The problem is, your chances of getting uniques/sets/rares are alot lower in gambling than killing the Boss itself. And you get experience. Its a win-win situation compared to gambling.
This makes diablo II gold not worthless. Why else could you get a pul for 3 million in the last europe ladder season?
I'm playing USWEST, I don't play Europe.
So far for the past 6 years I havent seen a game or thread (made here, or for last time, at the official Bnet forums) that wanted gold in exchange for items.
The currency is usually pgems, which I think is more appropriate compared to gold.
Morever, nice rebuttals, but you have to face up to the reality that gold has indeed lost its value in Diablo2.
tbh, you can't use what little you've seen from the gameplay video to make a thesis for this, that's just not.. useful. Also, you can't reference to how much gold we used to have on d2 since that's utterly irrelevant..
I myself is rooting for gold to be useful, make it harder to acumulate and the payoff for doing so better, ie. new stuff for the gambling (runes, gems etc as said before me), maybe be able buy a special training session to make your merc get some extra level on a skill or something like that. And balance out the cost for potions/repairs/scrolls and whatnot.
And if it doesn't work out as intended, just patch that ***** away and let people make up their own currency as in d2.. Pgems all the way misters and missus'
raveharu
08-07-2008, 09:08
tbh, you can't use what little you've seen from the gameplay video to make a thesis for this, that's just not.. useful. Also, you can't reference to how much gold we used to have on d2 since that's utterly irrelevant..
I myself is rooting for gold to be useful, make it harder to acumulate and the payoff for doing so better, ie. new stuff for the gambling (runes, gems etc as said before me), maybe be able buy a special training session to make your merc get some extra level on a skill or something like that. And balance out the cost for potions/repairs/scrolls and whatnot.
And if it doesn't work out as intended, just patch that ***** away and let people make up their own currency as in d2.. Pgems all the way misters and missus'
I guess you misinterpret me.
My assumptions are based on Diablo 2 and not 3.
I listed out the reasons why gold became useless in Diablo 2 but it seems someone rebutted all my statements, which I think is not necessary.
He seems to think gold is still useful in D2(yes, mainly for repair purpose and buying pots/scrolls, but that's about it), which everyone knows is not.
The reason so why I listed out the reasons, to prevent the same thing from happening in Diablo 3.
I hope gold will be one of the important aspect in the game.
Rashiminos
08-07-2008, 10:53
With good a good gold find % you can pick up a lot more in gold then you get from items. It also doesn't take up stash space, which is important as everyone is running around with an inventory full of charms.
A lot of people give a damn.
Think Jewelers Monarchs of Deflection, Fools greater talons of swiftness, 6 BO helms, 6 enchant sticks, 3 lightning skill 20 ias gloves , various blue tiara's/diadems etc.
Most of these items are worth more than the "common" uniques and set items.
Untrue, they sell higher level equipment as well. Most isn't usefull but they do sell some of the items I mentioned above sometimes.
You get to specifically select what you get instead of hoping for something in an MF run. Imagine how long it would take to roll 10 rings from mephisto. Then imagine how long it takes if you have some gold and just stand next to Gheed.
More importantly it is a great boon to crafters as they need specific items for their crafting. Crafted items can have the greatest value in the game, being truly unique and all.
This makes diablo II gold not worthless. Why else could you get a pul for 3 million in the last europe ladder season?
Quoted for truth.
The 35k reason is more important than any reason raveharu presented.
raveharu
08-07-2008, 10:59
double post.
raveharu
08-07-2008, 11:02
Quoted for truth.
The 35k reason is more important than any reason raveharu presented.
huh? sorry I don't get you.
Anyway this thread is about gold having no value in-game, and what should be done about it, so please don't go off-topic like Erwwwd.
This makes diablo II gold not worthless.
Are you contradicting the title of this thread?
Rashiminos
08-07-2008, 11:12
It looked to me like Ewwwd was refuting some of your claims about what made gold lose its value in d2. Gold does have value in d2, it just is not a valuable trading commodity with so many exploitable resources available.
The 35k NPC sell limit makes it better to barter high-priced low-demand stuff (often times junk) rather than get rid of it.
The main reason gold lost its value in D2 is the prevalence of duped items (SoJ anyone)? The problem was so severe that Blizzard created a SoJ sink in 1.10 by having players sell SoJs to fight Uber Diablo.
The reason that you made which was valid (unique/set/rare vs magic) is way down the list.
So what should be done?
Stop dupes. Remove NPC sell limit.
I want gold to be the defined currency:girly:
raveharu
08-07-2008, 11:19
It looked to me like Ewwwd was refuting some of your claims about what made gold lose its value in d2. Gold does have value in d2, it just is not a valuable trading commodity with so many exploitable resources available.
The 35k NPC sell limit makes it better to barter high-priced low-demand stuff (often times junk) rather than get rid of it.
The main reason gold lost its value in D2 is the prevalence of duped items (SoJ anyone)? The problem was so severe that Blizzard created a SoJ sink in 1.10 by having players sell SoJs to fight Uber Diablo.
The reason that you made which was valid (unique/set/rare vs magic) is way down the list.
So what should be done?
Stop dupes. Remove NPC sell limit.
Well that was on my first point, onto which Erwwwd rebutted with a rather off-topic answer.
And I think non of his rebuttals are on-topic.
I want gold to be the defined currency:girly:
We all want gold to be a currency in D3, and I have stated the reasons why they lost their value in D2.
Rashiminos
08-07-2008, 11:21
Do you know why gold lost its value in Diablo2?
1)Items, they drop like no one's business. Rather than pick the gold up, we usually pick the items instead and sell them off for alot more $$$. Also there are tons of rares/uniques/set items in Diablo, who gives a damn about magical items?
2)NPCs. The equips sold by the NPCs are pure crap.Even in nightmare or hell modes, the items sold are still normal types, hilarious aint it.
3)Gambling. The gambling system in Diablo2 is pure crap. Since there's a thing call magic-finding, who would want to waste time finding gold to gamble when players could easily pawn Bosses and get rares/uniques/sets in a jiff?
In contrast with most MMORPGS:
1) the NPCs sells attractive items but at ridiculously high prices.
2) equips drop rates are attrocious. monsters drop their gold/etc more often, thus making gold the main currency in game.
You made this post, did you not? Is this post off-topic? If it's not, then neither is Ewwwd's response to it.
raveharu
08-07-2008, 11:32
You made this post, did you not? Is this post off-topic? If it's not, then neither is Ewwwd's response to it.
Look here dude, this thread is about gold being meaningless.
I made my point , but obviously you didn't notice what Ewwwd responded with.
OK fine I take it you don't understand what is going and just quote him for no reason.
1)Items, they drop like no one's business. Rather than pick the gold up, we usually pick the items instead and sell them off for alot more $$$.
His response:
With good a good gold find % you can pick up a lot more in gold then you get from items. It also doesn't take up stash space, which is important as everyone is running around with an inventory full of charms.
Hello? We are talking why gold is meaningless in D2, yes I know you can find more gold-finding equips(duh), but what has this got to do with the topic?
Ok to make it even clearer,
question: why is D2 gold meaningless?
My reason: people pick up items to sell them off rather than picking gold up. - correct
His rebuttal: with gold find equips you can find more gold. - huh?????
Do you not see he is going off-topic?
Rashiminos
08-07-2008, 11:46
Okay, you say that players don't pick gold up because it's worth more to pick up items and sell them rather than pick the gold up. Ewwwd counters by saying that picking items up can be cumbersome due a full inventory of charms, and that gold find produces a lot of gold that can be collected easily in this situation.
Your argument is contending that gold is meaningless because it's better to pick up items and sell them than to collect gold piles (erroneous to begin with). Ewwwd provided a good counterexample to your statement, and then offered reasons he would use gold find in the first place. Just because he doesn't agree with your assumption that gold was meaningless in D2 does not make his statements irrelevant.
I understand well enough.
raveharu
08-07-2008, 11:50
Okay, you say that players don't pick gold up because it's worth more to pick up items and sell them rather than pick the gold up. Ewwwd counters by saying that picking items up can be cumbersome due a full inventory of charms, and that gold find produces a lot of gold that can be collected easily in this situation.
Your argument is contending that gold is meaningless because it's better to pick up items and sell them than to collect gold piles (erroneous to begin with). Ewwwd provided a good counterexample to your statement, and then offered reasons he would use gold find in the first place. Just because he doesn't agree with your assumption that gold was meaningless in D2 does not make his statements irrelevant.
I understand well enough.
You said it yourself, he assumes that gold is not meaningless in D2 and that is what the topic is not about.
So who is going off-topic?
Rashiminos
08-07-2008, 11:55
It's not off-topic. It's a side topic you started, he continued, and now you seem to be wanting to stop for some reason (I have my private conjectures about this).
The thread supposes gold is meaningless, but some of us know it isn't so...
Off-topic would be a thread about a sorc build in the amazon forum. A thread about how a certain type of sorc build can be fought by a bowazon would not be off-topic just because a sorc happened to come up in the situation.
raveharu
08-07-2008, 12:02
I shall not argue anymore.This is ridiculous.
But obviously Ewwwd concept on gold is wrong, its quite obvious if you play the game.
He is arguing based on the mindset that "gold is worth alot in D2".
But, whatever, I just want gold to play a bigger part in Diablo 3.
Rashiminos
08-07-2008, 12:06
But obviously you and Ewwwd concept on gold is wrong, its quite obvious if you play the game.
I play, not so sure about Ewwwd's current status.
He is arguing based on the mindset that "gold is worth alot in D2".
He said it was not worthless. There's a subtle difference.
But, whatever, I just want gold to play a bigger part in Diablo 3.
Not the only one...
raveharu
08-07-2008, 12:20
He said it was not worthless. There's a subtle difference.
you seem to rebut every statement I made against him :scratchchin:
are you his buddy or something?
Rashiminos
08-07-2008, 12:25
you seem to rebut every statement I made against him :scratchchin:
are you his buddy or something?
We both watched some of the Euro 2008 football games and commented on them in an OTF thread. Does this matter in the current thread? Probably not.
Is this getting a bit off-topic now? Probably. Is a mod going to whip out a ban stick and give me a date with the squid? Doubt it, unless I get carried away.
What he said in this thread is still accurate.
raveharu
08-07-2008, 12:29
yup, but off-topic.
It's not off-topic to contest the idea that gold is meaningless here. Just like it is not off-topic in a topic called 'Should BH stay underpowered?' to contest that idea.
If you want to improve on the value of gold from D2 to D3, first must be established what the value of gold in D2 really is. And meaningless is simply highly inaccurate.
@raveharu: Ah, the post wasen't really intended for you.. And I agree with you. I hope gold'll have more of an impact in d3 than it had in d2.
Sincubus
08-07-2008, 16:05
I don't mind if they drop the gold part...
I like finding weapons myself.
Here is what I would do for gold in D3, to give it some value, but not supreme value. Gold should be useful, but you shouldn't be able to get everything with it.
Get rid of useless gold sinks:
1) Get rid of item durability/repairs (they're annoyances that disproportionately punish melee builds, and not conducive to fast-paced gameplay; ethereal items would need something else to counterbalance them)
2) Possibly find an alternative merc resurrect penalty
Reduce the supply of gold:
1) Reduce gold drop frequency
2) Rarify the %goldfind affix
3) Drastically Reduce selling prices of items (gold piles should be worth more than most white/blue items); also, uncap selling prices
Increase the demand for gold:
1) Improve the odds in gambling (not by too much; e.g. sets 1/500, uniques 1/1000)
2) Reduce the amount of high level items with useless magic affixes, and allow vendors to frequently sell viable "second-rate" gear at high but affordable gold prices
3) Allow unlimited inventory space in a shared account stash to be bought at a fixed rate (In D2 terms, around 50,000 - 100,000 gold per item slot)
4) Allow respeccing at an increasing gold-cost (in D2 terms, 25,000 gold for the first skillpoint or 5 stat points, with a 10% compounded cost for each additional 1 skill/ 5 stats, capped at around 1M gold; stats and skills would be separated for respec purposes, so respeccing a ton of stats wouldn't increase the costs of respeccing a skill, and vice versa).
5) Allow common cube ingredients to be bought for crafting purposes, such as pgems. This is really just a different version of gambling.
6) Allow items to be unsocketed (returning all the ingredients along with the item) for a decent price (in D2 terms, 50,000 gold for normal items, 100,000 gold for exceptional items, 150,000 gold for elite items).
Thoughts/additions/critiques?
craezyjim
18-07-2008, 01:58
I am personally a fan of a currency based on gold instead of items for trading. It is much easier to pay for items with a stack of coins that take up no inventory, vs. managing multiple characters and keeping track of a stock of items for trade.
Diablo currency is 'worthless' primarily because there is no substantial gold sink with a guaranteed boost to your character (even temporary). There is no easy way to convert gold directly into improved character performance. In D1 and D2, you can accumulate gold beyond the carrying limit with no real sacrifice to your character's performance.
Until gold can be directly converted into character progression, gold will have little value in the Diablo universe. Gambling attempts to do this, but the results are too random. It is faster to simply run a boss and get 5 gambled results than farm enough gold to gamble 5 times (200k+ at high levels).
Ways to progress directly with gold sinks implies vendor or NPC interaction. Some ways to change gold to performance boost:
1). gambling, but with base item types updated based on difficulty - base item is always exceptional or elite at higher difficulty
2). buying very expensive items for a particular slot from a vendor (i.e. gloves only). The resulting item must be bound to that character (not tradeable), thus removing the gold from the game. The item is always for sale at the NPC.
3). temporary power boosts - either potions or enchants to items like WoW. At high levels of play, the enchants/boosts become integral to survival. Basically, a portable shrine you can purchase.
4). fees for inventory expansion for a given character (basically bags as in WoW, but again, bound to the character) - others have mentioned similar ideas
5). escalating respec fees - (probably most obvious gold sink)
6). crafting consummables - i.e. you have to buy an NPC reagent for a cube recipe (Moja mentions this too)
7). enchantments for items given by an NPC. If you trade the item, the enchantment fades. You could add a slow effect to your axe, mana leech, extra damage, etc. The best enchantments cost enormous amounts of gold. You can enchant all parts of your equipment in this way.
8). gold cost to unsocket runes or add sockets to items (mentioned by others)
9). pay for temporary hirelings or mercenaries to help in difficult fights
10) paid for buff that increases your magic find % (remove this property from items).
In addition to the gold removal, the sell prices for items as vendor trash will need to be adjusted. In general, the item drop rates would have to go down.
ooooooooh. being able to gamble for runes is an awesome idea. It could still be hard to get the elite ones, but would defintely make more people gamble.
Also, I am no un-opposed to an auction house if items are still currency. heres an example for how it could work in D2 today
Posted at AH: Enigma. To buy you have 3 options: CoH, 3 HR's, Arachnids Mesh + SOJ.
If you have any of those combos, you click on your payment method, put them in the AH and ship em away and you get the enigma. It would let people continue to play while they are trading
(For arguements sake lets say everything is legit in this example and duping doesnt exist)
This is quite possibly the best Idea I've seen. But, rather than having these set options for the buyer, why not have notifications of offers sent to you showing the list of items and their stats. Then you can select from the offers or decline them all.
If gold becomes a main currency in D3 you can kiss that "OMG SHAKO" feeling good bye.
earthrug
18-07-2008, 20:19
It should stay meaningless for teh most part.
CaptainDingo
18-07-2008, 20:31
Gold needs to be worth something. We need more gold sinks. Gambling was a poor gold sink because it was something few people did and was totally unnecessary to do. Repairing is necessary, but it didn't help make gold worth anything.
I know I say it a lot, but look towards Titan Quest for this. Titan Quest had no durability, so you never had to repair. However, you get to about level 30 and have 2,000,000 gold on hand, but the items you buy from merchants are sometimes much better than the gear you're wearing, and they run you hundreds of thousands of gold each. Items you buy from merchants in Diablo 2 were both worthless and ... well, worthless, as in they didn't cost anything really.
Makes for a really poor sink of cash.
But part of why I refused to play on Battlenet was because of all the item-trading. I've never seen a SOJ in my life, how am I going to trade a bunch to someone for a half-decent set item? :P
if only there was a certain vender you could go to to gamble for runes for like 50,000 a pop or possibly buy certain ones for a very high price (like a Ist rune for 2,000,000 game gold), then gold would be worth something in D2:LOD.
mince pies
18-07-2008, 22:52
All Blizzard needs to do is make gold more scarce and people will probably start using it as a currency. And yes I would like to see gold used as a currency
All Blizzard needs to do is make gold more scarce and people will probably start using it as a currency. And yes I would like to see gold used as a currency
Just making it scarce wouldnt make it valuable as currency.
It has to be scarce and useful.
you cant work a fiat money system into a game, because there's no regulatory body to enforce it.
I know I say it a lot, but look towards Titan Quest for this. Titan Quest had no durability, so you never had to repair. However, you get to about level 30 and have 2,000,000 gold on hand, but the items you buy from merchants are sometimes much better than the gear you're wearing, and they run you hundreds of thousands of gold each. Items you buy from merchants in Diablo 2 were both worthless and ... well, worthless, as in they didn't cost anything really.
To be honest, Titan Quest's gold sinks failed just as hard as they did in D2. Sure there were more of them. But you still found enough gold to build a solid gold statue of yourself scaled to the size the entire god damned planet. By the time you hit legendary difficulty, gold cost ceased to matter.
Gold is by no means, meaningless.. I get yelled at, every time some foolish person dies in my diablo games. Yes, I'm the greedy one to pick it up, and yet these people are angry for nothing!! Gold, is supposed to be "worthless." Everytime a unique drops, nobody whines "YOU CLICKED TOO FAST!!" It only occurs when gold drops off a shrunken dead corpsicle.. Blizzard outta keep gold in its "worthless" state, so that I can keep gettin' yelled at.. by crazy bnet people, its hilarious, it even distracts them from clickin' on the really rare uniques, that drop in game..
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