There NEEDS To Be A Ranged Class

[Freezing Arrow]

There is a ranged class in pretty much every fantasy/medieval RPG. So its pretty obvious that the Amazon will come back. Discuss (skills, new additions, etc.).

[Manovan]

Yes and no. There will be a ranged class, but it won't be the Amazon because their club is women only.

[Flux]

Most people are expecting a ranger type, since that can be both genders pretty easily. I've mentioned in a few barbarian threads that they might as well take the throwing skills away from the barb, since he doesn't look likely to need them in D3, with the improved jump and the super fast charge. (Not that he especially needed them in D2, for that matter.)

So I'd say put those on the ranged class, and make it a pure ranged class. No melee skills, or at most one for special situations. Something jab-like, perhaps. I was going to advocate no valkyrie type skill, since that tank made bowazons too easy in some ways (even before mercs got so powerful in d2x), but after watching the wwi movie and seeing how vast the swarms of monsters are, and how quickly they attack, I don't see how a pure ranged char could survive w/o some kind of minions, or else a lot of freezing/slowing/crowd control skills.

The trick is to find a way to create a variety of comparable ranged builds, so throwing weapons, bows, xbows, etc are all viable, for different reasons and different play styles.

[Burst Cancel]

As I've noted elsewhere, it seems that Blizz design philosophy for skills in D3 is heavily focused on crowd control. Even without a tank, I'm sure a ranged character with multiple AoE attacks - and perhaps a knockback weapon - should be able to survive easily (but hopefully not too easily). I frankly wouldn't be surprised if Multishot became a tier-1 skill, and if it started with 5 arrows at lvl 1.

Further, Blizz has suggested more emphasis on team play, meaning that your tank would be your Barb/Knight buddy, obviating the need for a separate summon. This would be further augmented by the dodging skills that come standard on practically every ranger/rogue class in every RPG ever made.

[JusticeInACan]

There most likely will be one, seeing as most RPGs out there almost always include at least one melee class, one ranged class, and one magic class.

[HRP]

I rarely spent any time outside of the Amazon class in DII, so this topic is pretty important for me.

I'm pushing for a ranger/rogue type class with the addition of guns. Come on it's been 20 years since the last game and I think if people can launch frozen orbs and spears of bone from their palms someone could invent a friggin' handgun.

[Sokar Rostau]

The Lore and Environment presentation makes special mention of Skovos and it's culture - Skovos is the main island from which the Amazons and Rogues came from (and they are not female only, any more than only teenage girls can be mages or old men with mullets can be necromancers). They said that Skovos will not be visited in D3, so why did they have to go into so much detail about the lore of the place? Because some version of the Amazon/Rogue will be in D3.

[hestah]

handguns was probably not invented to be effective in 20 years from the first prototype. Also it just doesnt fit into the Diablo universe at all IMO.

[Freezing Arrow]

I definitely DO NOT want guns.

Not only do they not fit, but it makes weapons like the sword and the axe inferior to it. Why would you use melee weapons when you have guns?

[SnickerSnack]

First, if you can throw fire from your hands, where is the motive to make guns?

Second, as someone said, 20 years is not nearly enough time to go from gun powder to guns. Then again, who said they had to be semi-automatic? They could be flint locks, though that's still a stretch. Or maybe, guns have been in the works for the last hundred game years, and only in the last 20 have primitive guns become possible. The story could allow for it if the designers really wanted to.

Third, if they did make guns, they could be balanced to work only about as effectively as a crossbow. Long reload time maybe?

I don't think guns would be a good addition. They really don't fit the game world so far.

[PoXeR]

I might as well go play Socom if there are guns. I think it wouldn't make any sense if there were guns. On that note, a ranged type character will be in the game. Always has been and who else is going to make the most use out of bows. A ranged character.

[HRP]

When I say guns, I'm talking about ghetto-*** big pirate-esque pistols.

But I can see why most people wouldn't want them in the game. I think they'd fit just fine :)

[Dimmu]

Of course it won't be an amazon, but there will definetly be a ranged class. I hope it's either a ranger/hunter type character with bow skills/animal minions/traps, or a sort of sorcerer-archer type relying heavily on elemental-based bow skills(like the zon's, except they wouldn't completely suck).

Or we could just have skill trees for both options, but i don't see an entire character only being able to use bows.

[Jek]

Guns would be kinda meh, and totally out of the diablo spirit IMO.

There will almost certainly be a ranged class, there has been in both DI and DII, and given their popularity in said games it's hard to see that blizzard will ignore it. My guess would be they'll just go with "Archer"; I'd love to seem them be able to specialize in either AoE slaughtering as in D2 or in Single target as in D1.

Another possibility could be "Arcane Archer"; basicly a mage/archer hybrid that channels mana into deadly on impact arrows - akin to Frozen Arrow and Immolation.

Whatever happens, we'll most certainly get the joy of hailing arrows on the foes of Sanctuary again.

Skills I think we'll see again:
Multiple Shot, Guided Arrow, Magic Arrow, Critical Strike and Penetrate - or probably fused into an archery mastery.

[Freezing Arrow]

I completely agree with Jek! An arcane archer would be awesome! I just hope the female archer looks cool and the male archer wears skimpy clothes. :cloud9:

[Dimmu]

LoL arcane archer's a prestige D&D class.

[Freezing Arrow]

Oh, I didn't know that... Still, they should put one in. You agree with me on the clothes, right? I also think they should look elegant.

[Jek]

Oh, I didn't know that... Still, they should put one in. You agree with me on the clothes, right? I also think they should look elegant.

I agree. Deadly, yet elegant and sexy -- all the way. :nod:

[Freezing Arrow]

^_^ You're totally right I hope our idea comes true.

[yalthar]

I definitely can't imagine D3 without a ranged character, whatever the name is:) It's a great way to play an RPG.

[Remy]

Isn't the only argument against the Amazon's return the gender issue? But since Amazons exist in the world of Diablo, it tells us that there are male Amazons. Zon babies come from somewhere. No reason why the male Zons can't be mighty warriors who stay back to defend their home, that might be just their culture.

I personally think that it actually makes less sense to not bring back the Amazon. If they were a people with such a strong sense of justice to make the long trip to deal with the demons in D2, it makes no sense why they wouldn't do so again. The only reason not to this time would be that they are wiped out, but that too does not makes sense since it's only been 20 years.

Since the inclusion of a ranged class is inevitable, might as well make it the Amazon. They can just expand on existing Amazon lore. If Blizzard start giving us all these new classes each with brand new lore, D3 could start looking kinda cheap on the lore side.

Whatever the case may be, I would like to see the return of the Strafe skill, changed however. Instead of a stationary volley, I think the player should be able to move around this time. Playing on the fact that "strafe" is commonly misused in FPS games to mean shooting while moving side-to-side, a strafing Strafe if you will.

[SlechtWeerBeer]

The Gameplay trailer showed a monster dropping a shortbow (or was it a Longbow?), so a Ranged class is defo there. Wether it's the Amazon or something else, I'd prefer to not have guns. Unless they work them out really, really well, they'll not have the Diablo-feel I think.

[yalthar]

Yeah please no guns.
Diablo is dirty, evil, low-tech but high fantasy medieval sword and sorcery.

[Jaedhann]

Well, if there is going to be a ranged character, it should also specialize in daggers for close combat. Put them darn little knives to use please.

[HRP]

Well, if there is going to be a ranged character, it should also specialize in daggers for close combat. Put them darn little knives to use please.

I would love for the ranged class to have daggers on a weapon switch. Get in there and stab 'em good if your arrows don't work :) I'm really hopping for a amazon/assassin kind of class and this would fit in perfectly with it.

[Dimmu]

something that i've always hoped to see even pre-d2 was magic and unique arrows/bolts.
I really hope they decide to do this, it would make the economy very interesting since they're disposable. Of course if that were the case they'd probably have alot of "auto-repair" arrows too.

Edit: actually, now that i think about it, they could have a vendor repair arrows as one of many ways to breathe life into gold as a working currency.

[Freezing Arrow]

^ Maybe a skill that replaces arrows with magic ones? So our equipment won't be full of them...

[Popeye]

A good idea to make a ranged player would be intoducing an elf or something (obviously not like the christmas one, but from the lord of the rings type). It could be a great archer with some druid-like skills, don't you think?

[HRP]

Something I've always thought would be a nice touch to ranged classes is to have enhanced quivers. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, maybe adding a little bit of elemental damage or increasing the rate of fire, etc.

Do you think D3 will still require ranged attackers to carry a ridiculous amount of arrows/bolts? I suppose damaging your target from a distance is quite an advantage, but it was never fun using half of your inventory space just for arrows.

[lone_wolf]

huh you seriously dont know your diablo lore. Go read your manuals and you can read that there are and always have been male amazons in the diablo universe.

[GUFF]

Isn't the only argument against the Amazon's return the gender issue? But since Amazons exist in the world of Diablo, it tells us that there are male Amazons. Zon babies come from somewhere. No reason why the male Zons can't be mighty warriors who stay back to defend their home, that might be just their culture.

I personally think that it actually makes less sense to not bring back the Amazon. If they were a people with such a strong sense of justice to make the long trip to deal with the demons in D2, it makes no sense why they wouldn't do so again. The only reason not to this time would be that they are wiped out, but that too does not makes sense since it's only been 20 years.

Since the inclusion of a ranged class is inevitable, might as well make it the Amazon. They can just expand on existing Amazon lore. If Blizzard start giving us all these new classes each with brand new lore, D3 could start looking kinda cheap on the lore side.

Whatever the case may be, I would like to see the return of the Strafe skill, changed however. Instead of a stationary volley, I think the player should be able to move around this time. Playing on the fact that "strafe" is commonly misused in FPS games to mean shooting while moving side-to-side, a strafing Strafe if you will.


Agreed on the lore argument. Blizzard would be wise to keep their trend of expanding lore. The more you make up anew the less you expand the previous lore giving the game less depth imho.

I hope the amazon makes a return. I think the male could be more than possible from the lore side of things.

I would like to play a ranged class in D3 and really enjoyed the skills available to Amazon's in D2. Especially Valkerie and Decoy.

[sneakytails]

One of the best features of the amazon was her ability to use ranged AND melee type weapons such as spears and javelins. She could also use the more common melee types like swords and such.

And all of this on the same build if you wanted. She will be greatly missed in this respect.

It will be very hard to replace such a versatile character in a new form.

With that said I agree with the post quoted by GUFF entirely. There is no reason she cannot return lore wise.

Most people are confusing the D2 amazon with the Greek Mythology Amazon who did kill the males off during birth and created a society of only females.

The D2 amazon has her own unique lore.

[Kanji]

Unique lore indeed.

"In the Amazon culture, only the women serve as warriors, their intrinsic superior dexterity and lithe body structures are better suited to combat in the dense rainforest environs of the islands. Their society is far from stratified, however, as men are responsible for any number of positions in the community, government, and clergy, as well as merchant and agricultural occupations."

That's out of the D2 manual. So, people are assuming that only the women fight because, well... Blizzard told us that the women are the only ones who fight. There could be any number of reasons for us getting more lore about the island they live on. Maybe there'll be some Amazonian NPCs who are critical to the story, for instance. I guess I'm mostly just playing devil's advocate here. I ultimately don't care if they decide to bring Amazons in or not, but I think it'd feel kind of shoehorned in.

As for the Rogues... their real name is "The Sisters of the Sightless Eye". I don't remember their lore exactly, since I lost my D1 manual, but they only recruit women, their archery skills were ranked among the best in the world, before Andariel killed or corrupted the majority of them, and they never shared their secrets with outsiders. Again, yeah, you could make up a slew of excuses for men to suddenly have the same talents, but it'd probably feel fan-ficcy and contrived.

Again, not trying to be combative, so don't take this the wrong way. Just trying to show both sides. I think it'd make more sense to bring back the Sorcerer/Sorceress, since we already have males and females who use arcane magic and don't need to make up an excuse. Aside from two old classes, I'm hoping the other classes will be brand new, and I think the Sorcerer/Sorceress makes the most sense. I just won't start howling like a lunatic, like a lot of other people seem to be promising to do when they inevitably don't get what they want, if that isn't what happens.

[FistOfFury]

Not having a ranged character would be bad RPG game design.
Rock <melee - barb/warrior>
Paper <magic - sorc/mage>
Scissors <ranged - zon/rogue>
(You gotta have your base trio and then you add your hybrids like necro, druid, sin, pally/cleric/monk)


I'll be happy if they bring back the zon, but I also wouldn't mind some rogue/assasin hybrid as a replacement. One skill tree would be archer, another for daggers, and another for buffs, dodging and other misc skills. Arcane Archer? Let's see a Daggermancer..how fun would it be throwing magical daggers of ice, fire and poison that CE on impact? ...ahh spicy!

[5zigen]

I'm gunning for a Druid / Amazon hybrid character called the "ranger" or something similar.

Something that uses all bows / throwing weapons and has an acute attunement to nature.

Trees could be like, Marksmanship and Beast mastery with the last tree dedicated to the passive and magic skills if they still have them.

I would really like to see more throwing weapon skills though, and throwing weapon skills that require two throwing weapons. Think Fan of Blades and Shadowstrike from WC3. Others would be awesome too.

[mouseman]

First guns were really ineffective. You couldn't aim (or aiming didn't matter) and they were only effective used in a battle formation (linear) and close range. Even in the 18th century, most armies used guns with effective range less than 100 meters.

So musket-type guns would be really crappy in Diablo universe with all the magic :) And they wouldn't fit, as they didn't in mythos, either.

Gunpowder changed the warfare, but not with guns. The cannons played a bigger part in history, because the usage against fortifications and also against infantry. There were some really nasty cannons around long before mass armies had guns, but I don't go into detail here. And again, doesn't fit to Diablo universe.

[Maedhros]

I think guns would make it too WoW. Also, I hope that the ranged class would get spears again. Why? Because whats the point of using knives to kill enemies? Isnt it more effective to use a spear to keep enemies at bay, and then using knock back skills to push them away, and use your bow to finish them off? I would actual like to see a minimum range for bows to be able to fire.

[etslayer]

I have a feeling they will bring back the assassin, this time equiped with bow/xbow skills along with martial arts and shadow disciplines.

[etslayer]

You guys should check out Mythos. They have a gun class which has all the same skills that the amazon had, except it uses guns rather than bows. It could work just fine, but bows are a diablo tradition, and there is very little chance, I think, that they will replace them with guns.

(sorry for the double-post)

[TheSakari]

Going with the flow of the current discussion, I really can't see guns making it into the Diablo universe. I think a lot of you are thinking too much about the pvp aspect instead of the pvm elements.

How many times have you seen a DEMON shot and killed with a gun?

[MuffinMan]

Xbow is gun enough for me. Just hope those in D3 will be better compared to normal bows than they where in D2..

[lionheart]

Guns would be totally out of place there. It will be too much of a deviation of the type of world that sanctuary is. To throw traps and stuff like that is one thing but to have somebody go with machine guns and stuff while others are going with swords and axes it seems a little ridiculous lol

[Sincubus]

A ranger would be possible

Combining the DRUID and the AMAZONE class in one.

[SacredFlame]

If they dont put a Sorceress in Diablo3 im not buying it, no way im playing a Barbarian. And a WD isn't too much of a happy hour either.

[yalthar]

If they dont put a Sorceress in Diablo3 im not buying it, no way im playing a Barbarian. And a WD isn't too much of a happy hour either.

I wouldn't go that far :) But then again I'm also a barbarian fan.
But I do hope they add a true elementalist class, and also a true ranged weapon class. I don't care much if they call them sorcerer/mage/wizard or ranger/amazon/rogue but I'm really hoping for something close to those stereotypes.

[Dyshein]

Howabout making other ranged weapons besides bows like throwing knives actually worth something. I got so tired of finding all these unique battle darts and so forth and discarding them since nobody every used em =/.

[nishtikeit]

the Amazon and the Assassin will be combined in D3. the new class will probably be a simple Rogue of some kind, having the ability of traps, bow, as well as the D2 Claw Skills.

[Addict]

I agree that there definately better be a ranged class. I hope they don't start restricting equipment according to class though. A few select class specific items is one things but I hope they don't restrict the new ranged class from equipping a sword or axe or plate mail. I always liked that about diablo, you could build your character around whatever equipment YOU felt like giving her. You had the freedom to build a zon with a Faith, Titan's, 2xUpped Kelpie, or even an eDeathcb if you felt like it. It made every drop POSSIBLY useful; nothing ever dropped that you couldn't use if you wanted to. I hope they keep it that way and don't restrict the classes to specific equipment types.

[Dacar92]

I agree that there definately better be a ranged class. I hope they don't start restricting equipment according to class though. A few select class specific items is one things but I hope they don't restrict the new ranged class from equipping a sword or axe or plate mail. I always liked that about diablo, you could build your character around whatever equipment YOU felt like giving her. You had the freedom to build a zon with a Faith, Titan's, 2xUpped Kelpie, or even an eDeathcb if you felt like it. It made every drop POSSIBLY useful; nothing ever dropped that you couldn't use if you wanted to. I hope they keep it that way and don't restrict the classes to specific equipment types.

Things like a Demon's Limb, which had uses for any class, could not be wielded by anything other than a barb, if they do restrict weapon types to specific classes. I think you'll be able to wield a bow on a barb or a WD in D3 but whether it'll be useful or not is another issue.

[grenadesnham]

I would love for the ranged class to have daggers on a weapon switch. Get in there and stab 'em good if your arrows don't work :) I'm really hopping for a amazon/assassin kind of class and this would fit in perfectly with it.

From the look of it the ranged class may not even need to use melee weaps. Watch the gameplay trailer where the archer minion is about killed by the fat gluttony bugger. (10min32sec) It resembles the barb's haft whack with the maul.

The archer whacks the enemy with his bow rather than fire an arrow. This could perhaps foreshadow possible melee bow skills that allow perhaps low damage but knockback, who knows. At least you won't be pulling back an arrow as a zombie gets a tooth-hold of your wrist.

[konfeta]

They should make a bigger difference in gameplay between Crossbows and Bows. As it stands, they are essentially identical except for speed/damage ratio difference.

[Dacar92]

They should make a bigger difference in gameplay between Crossbows and Bows. As it stands, they are essentially identical except for speed/damage ratio difference.

How is that even close to identical then? Xbows have greater damage but they're considerably slower. I'd say that there aren't too many other issues to compare beyond those. Speed and damage, whet else is there?

[Kijya]

I also believe crossbows to be "gun enough".

To make the difference between bow and xbow bigger you could adapt some skills to what you're wielding, possibly going slightly more towards rl differences.
For example:

Crossbows:
Make it impossible to use multiple shot (and strafe unless you use one of the special types such as a chu-ko-nu). Allow piercing of bolts.

Bows:
Allow multiple shot and strafe, but disable piercing except for the really heavy bows.


That way we would have the mage-zons using crossbows to make their magically enchanted bolts hit multiple opponents that are standing in a straight line, and the arrow spammer bowzons using multiple shot and strafe for hitting hoards of enemies fast.

Piercing is a big thing, and I think it should be much more dependent on what weapon you use rather then if you use razortail or not. A bow or crossbow that requires high strength should do so because drawing the string requires that much, and using a high strength one should give a proportional piercing power.





As for amazon/assasin or amazon/druid I'd hope for a zon/sin hybrid. Although summoning some wild animals is fun, I prefer stealthy skills (not to mention BoS on a bowzon ... :wink2:)

[konfeta]

Speed and damage, whet else is there?

You can do a lot of things there. Armor penetration, mobility, range, difference in speed that would actually matter in playstyle,.

A crossbow Amazon with the same build will play identically to a bow Amazon with the same build. When I look at a crossbow I want to see a different style of play from a bow user.