Please Blizzard. Do Not Make Magic Range Imbalanced

[hai]

If you still play the game you know that only magic range wreck havoc. they can destroy a whole area with ease while melee builds are still struggling on that one monster. Hammerdins, Sorcs, Assassin traps, Druid elementals....

I hope blizzard will pay close attention to these issues.

[Kalian]

WW Barbs? Frenzybarbs? Smiters? Zealots? Shapeshifters? Heck, you could even throw fishymancers in, as much as they rely on melee-range skels. Range isn't really unbalanced as it is in Diablo 2 to begin with.

More to the point, part of why bliz is loathe to specify release dates is because they *do* consider these issues. So first off, you're wrong, "magic range" characters aren't the only ones who can wreak havoc, and secondly, blizzard usually does pay pretty good and close attention to balancing issues.

[Apocalypse]

if melee can kill as fast as magic should casters being able to survive as long as the tanks?

[Felix]

if melee can kill as fast as magic should casters being able to survive as long as the tanks?

Yes. If they know how to play their class.

[5zigen]

WW Barbs? Frenzybarbs? Smiters? Zealots? Shapeshifters? Heck, you could even throw fishymancers in, as much as they rely on melee-range skels. Range isn't really unbalanced as it is in Diablo 2 to begin with.


You are crazy. None of those builds are anywhere near the effectiveness of meteorb, hammerdin, bonemancer (and fishy is a caster based char as it bases most of its dmg around CE) or Javazon.

But, Frenzybarb, Smiter, Zealot, WW barb are all at a disadvantage to casters, particularly in HC.

[Apocalypse]

Yes. If they know how to play their class.


i mean in takeing damage. there is a reason the casters kill so fast, its cause they are supposed to die so fast. if melee kills at the same clip then that is an inbalance itself

[5zigen]

i mean in takeing damage. there is a reason the casters kill so fast, its cause they are supposed to die so fast. if melee kills at the same clip then that is an inbalance itself

Well it's better than the current D2 setup where melee is not only slower to do damage, but is higher risk because of the massive damage melee enemies do in D2.

[eseven]

It's just like how in WoW (not so much in tbc with arena gear, but in classic), where mages were glass cannons while warriors were tanks. It makes sense that frail characters have higher damage output, and while this remains mostly true in D2, the main reason for the difference in damage output is due to the lack of massive AoE abilities for melee builds such as frenzy/smite, etc. The addition of more melee AoE as seen in the barbarian gameplay trailer is a welcome sight, but hopefully ranged AoE remains on top in terms of damage.

[mjkittredge]

I think a prime example of the imbalance is Hell Cows.

A melee character going in there is absolute suicide, even with awesome gear.

A ranged character who is well geared and has the proper skills can annihilate.

Can anyone name me an area or monster where a melee has more advantages fighting than a ranged damage dealer?

This topic resonates with me, because I play MMOs and ranged damage dealers have a significant advantage over melee types in those games too, much to my frustration.

[5zigen]

I think a prime example of the imbalance is Hell Cows.

A melee character going in there is absolute suicide, even with awesome gear.

A ranged character who is well geared and has the proper skills can annihilate.

Can anyone name me an area or monster where a melee has more advantages fighting than a ranged damage dealer?

This topic resonates with me, because I play MMOs and ranged damage dealers have a significant advantage over melee types in those games too, much to my frustration.

The only real places where melee shines were ubers, dclone, duriel and mephisto. But that isnt enough to make up for the disadvantages everywhere else.

[Kijya]

Can anyone name me an area or monster where a melee has more advantages fighting than a ranged damage dealer?
Uber tristram, but appart from that you're right that PvM favors casters more then melee. PvP is more balanced in that aspect, where tele and charge can quickly remove the distance to your opponent, and you only have a low number of opponents to hit.

In other games the balance between melee/caster mostly come from limiting the casters attacks, aka longer casting times or make "mana" slower to replenish. In diablo a vide area attack can be just as fast as a one target melee attack, having long casting times just doesn't suit the fast gameplay diablo should have.

Not sure how you'd solve it, but putting a 10 second cooldown on me LF wouldn't make me happy :whistling:

[Pitboss_2000]

My barb with the full IK set had little problems on Hell, but another WW barb I had before couldn't even make a dent in Act 1 monsters as soon as there were more than 2 players in the game.

My main beefs with casters in D2 were Static Field, as it deals with bosses so fast (even on Hell it gives you near 50% in only a few casts) and Blessed Hammer with it's 100% damage to demons and undead.

[Rashiminos]

Well it's better than the current D2 setup where melee is not only slower to do damage, but is higher risk because of the massive damage melee enemies do in D2.

I'm sorry, but I'm laughing at you. Enemies don't do massive melee damage in d2.

[Sein Schatten]

I think a prime example of the imbalance is Hell Cows.

A melee character going in there is absolute suicide, even with awesome gear.

A ranged character who is well geared and has the proper skills can annihilate.


It is that way because to fight range you need range. Melees struggle there because the cows are melee. Imagine this map with glass cannon cows who are range. Wouldn't you think a range character would struggle?

[Furyan]

If you still play the game you know that only magic range wreck havoc. they can destroy a whole area with ease while melee builds are still struggling on that one monster. Hammerdins, Sorcs, Assassin traps, Druid elementals....

I hope blizzard will pay close attention to these issues.

FYI, I'd like to compare any magic character vs for example a Zealot or a Fury Druid. Or a Melee sorc, the king of damage.

And hell cows? Hell, they are pie for an well-geared character, be it a ranged or a melee one.

[Felix]

If you pull it you tank it, that's a lesson from the other game, where aggro is the key and a tank is a tank, much needed. But DII really doesn't have this system, so adressing it as if it has is an error I think. A whirling barbarian isn't tanking anything or keeping agro for that matter, and he has no idea, or should have for that matter, what the sorc is doing.

DII is a barroom brawl, not a concentrated exchange of fire by two parties opposing each other. So the whole arguments of tanks doesn't make sense. So you cannot do a Baal run if there is no tanks? Everybody run around complaining about the lack of tanks maybe?

The only thing close to a tank in the game is the Sorcs merc, and that is as much a part of a sorc build as her shako. Or the Necros skellies, or the Amazons valkyrie. So the ranged got the best tanking capabilities in DII if it must be.

[Nostavar]

I'm sorry, but I'm laughing at you. Enemies don't do massive melee damage in d2.
You're sorry, yet you still feel the need to tell him about it? Makes sense. :unimpressed:

Anyway, Frenzytaurs? Vipers? They're deadly.

[konfeta]

What, the new barbarian's moveset consisting of 95% AoE attacks that give him teleport-esque mobility as well as an AoE stun isn't enough for you?

Melee does far more damage in D2 than casters. Melee doesn't deal with resists or immunities on the same regularity as casters. Melee's only limitations in D2 were Iron Maiden, an occasional PI, and lack of quality AoE attacks. Outside of that, a well geared melee fighter made casters cry unless they were packing an Infinity. Hammerdins don't count, they are well outside either side's league.

[Bad Ash]

[QUOTE=konfeta;6578933]What, the new barbarian's moveset consisting of 95% AoE attacks that give him teleport-esque mobility as well as an AoE stun isn't enough for you?QUOTE]


uhh tell me your joking? lol...we've seen 5 skills out of probably 30+....i think its a lil early to say 95% of his skills are AoE

[hai]

What, the new barbarian's moveset consisting of 95% AoE attacks that give him teleport-esque mobility as well as an AoE stun isn't enough for you?

Melee does far more damage in D2 than casters. Melee doesn't deal with resists or immunities on the same regularity as casters. Melee's only limitations in D2 were Iron Maiden, an occasional PI, and lack of quality AoE attacks. Outside of that, a well geared melee fighter made casters cry unless they were packing an Infinity. Hammerdins don't count, they are well outside either side's league.

First of, I never said d3 isn't looking good for melee builds, nor did I imply that. The post was a "I hope..." and I it does look like blizzard is handling the balance issues.

Hammerdins don't count? What are you talking about? Hammerdins don't count in your opinion because why? They are outside of what league? You mean they dont as a caster? Your post fails horribly. I don't know where you learned to back up your arguement but the melee limitations you listed for "D2 were Iron Maiden, an occasional PI, and lack of quality AoE attacks"
is exactly everything wrong with the class. There is no, "outside of that." And you speak of diablo in past tense but the game is still being played and the problem still exists.

[konfeta]

think its a lil early to say 95% of his skills are AoE

As of right now, most of the skills they showed off are AoE damage dealers. With nothing else to go on, most of his skills are right now AoE.

Hammerdins don't count? What are you talking about? Hammerdins don't count in your opinion because why? They are outside of what league? You mean they dont as a caster? Your post fails horribly.

Hammerdins are not your typical caster. They face NONE of the problems caster do. They take the best of both melee (excellent defense) and casters (high, good range, AoE damage output) with few of the drawbacks. You cannot seriously call a build that sports defensive ability that is comparable to melee fighters and can damage (exceedingly well) practically every monster in the game with no miss chance or resists, representing of your typical Diablo 2 casters? There reason I put them outside either side's league is because Hammerdins are an anomaly. They are this game's equivalent of the Noobcannon, ezy-mode, etc. And yes, I built one. Being able to casually walk through 8 player Baal-run solo on on merely "decent" equipment is a feat your average caster cannot do.

"D2 were Iron Maiden, an occasional PI, and lack of quality AoE attacks"
is exactly everything wrong with the class.

My point exactly. Lack of quality AoE attacks is getting fixed. Physical Immunes were never really a problem because melee classes had access to easy alternatives to handle them, and will probably be able to do so in D3. Iron Maiden isn't omnipresent.

Lastly, this is Diablo 3. This isn't Diablo 2. The Diablo 2 problems, so far, are Diablo 2 problems. Most people will be moving on to the next game, thus it is appropriate to speak of the old game in past tense. Blizzard isn't obligated to fix gameplay flaws in an old game that is getting succeeded. In other words, "D2 Iron Maiden, PI, and lack of quality AoE attacks" is irrelevant as far as discussing balance between various combat types in D3.

The only reason I brought D2 up is because people hold this illusion that melee sucks in D2 and that D3 needs to somehow change that. My point is that melee does not suck in D2, there is no reason to worry about it in D3. The things I mentioned that limit melee in D2 are on par with the problems that casters face. And just like casters, they can overcome them without much fuss.

[stillman]

Hai, there should be nothing to fear as long as d3 is dupe free.

I think this "shine" that you all see with your chrs is from staring at the sun. That is, we all have easily attainable godly gear from the messed up dupe ecconomy. In the ideal diablo world, it would take, well infinity to get an infinty runeword. Anyone who could actually get gear like that would enjoy being overpowered, but at least they spent hundreds of hours trading and rune converting trying to get that.

We would barely notice the balance problems you speak of because so few of us would have all this top gear. We're not supposed to be that overpowered for a long long time.