View Full Version : Artistic Direction Petition.
I created a petition to show Blizzard, in numbers, how many of us are disappointed with the current art direction, if you agree then please sign it and divulge this petition in all the forums you know, if anyone can post on Blizzard forums i would be very graceful, let's make this happen!
http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html
For those of us who are disappointed in where Diablo 3 is visually headed.
EDIT: Please, PLEASE at least read the petition before posting.
Because a 20 minutes video of two small areas of the game = the entire game. God, so many whiners. Trust Blizzard.
Posted IncGamers about the panels:
"There has been some concern over the more vibrant look of the game, Diablo and Diablo II wereDiablo 3 dark worlds but that has not been fogotten by the development team. They have been doing their research which has involved watching horror movies and seeing how colour has been used to convey mood. Although the spell effects and some of the level look more vibrant at first glance, Blizzard are looking to keep the game dark and moody, much like a horror movie. the word 'horror' has been used a lot during the discussions with the development team so we feel confident they will find the right mood for the game, a mood that will not dissapoint the players."
Omikron8
30-06-2008, 23:25
would you rather prefer the age of conan art direction where EVERYTHING is grey, black or brown ?
why does "realism" always equate to a narrow boring color palette ?
would you like your equipment at level 1 to look the same as the equipment at max level to ensure "realism" ?
realism or variety, take your pick
37 total signatures...heres to hoping that person is joking and changes the name of the petition to "Idiots who dont ever want to see D3 released" after all the signatures are collected.
The petition was just released today. Most of the people who signed it are willing to wait for a graphics change if it means saving the game.
Vertigo X
30-06-2008, 23:45
I can't sign the petition. I only agree with less than ten percent of what was said... I also noticed that they used previews instead of previous when describing the 'previous' games.
The only part I have a problem with is the blue-green ambient lighting in the dungeon... Diablo 1 and 2 never had ambient lighting in their dungeons. (Cept for the dungeons where fire was every where. That would be well lit.)
ultramegazord
30-06-2008, 23:49
I made the petition and some of the concept pictures, my main objective is to have an independent, distinct art style in Diablo 3, an artistic direction very different from the Warcraft one, if you agree with that then sign the petition, i just want the game to be better, otherwise i wouldnt care at all about it.
Bill Cosby the petition was made like 15 minutes ago, that's why it has only 52 signatures.
ExtraStrongFireEnchanted
30-06-2008, 23:58
These threads make me
http://img241.imageshack.us/img241/4072/picardfacepalmeu1.jpg
Nostavar
01-07-2008, 00:00
37 total signatures...heres to hoping that person is joking and changes the name of the petition to "Idiots who dont ever want to see D3 released" after all the signatures are collected.
Or maybe just "people who care about how Diablo 3 will look"? I don't see the big deal - it's a valid complaint. If they are working on it already no harm is done.
Goddess Belldandy
01-07-2008, 00:02
Signed! I'm glad there is more than me out there who think the edited versions of Diablo3 screenshots with the darker look is much more Diablo-like!
I don't understand all this artistic direction gripe. It's like people were expecting another 3dfx 2d game w/ sprites... Not gonna happen.
As far as the artistic direction goes, people are saying the game is too wowish, but I would make the inverse of that argument. In the last expansion, the wow artwork has become more and more Diabloish.
The game doesnt look 'cartoony' in the least, it looks really good actually but 3d games are the way of the present and future. It's more efficient, easier to make and allows more freedom in just about every concievable way, from environment design, to camera options.
The artwork in D3 so far is simply head and shoulders above D2. It has the same feel in 3d.
I think the most ironic thing about this game is that you have some people who are complaining about (non-purists) who think the game is "too much like D2" and who think they should have deviated more. Then theres people like the OP who think the game is too little like D2 and too much like WoW.
I guess it's true that you cant please everyone.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 00:50
The art direction from Diablo 3 is exactly the same as the one from World of Warcraft, not as much cartoonish but the essence is the same, if you agree just to some points of this petition then sign it anyway and leave a comment of what you agree / dont agree, i can see the comments in the control panel and ill show that list of comments to Blizzard, that's what matter most.
And like i said in the petition, we dont want the exact same look we did in the pictures, we want some kind of balance between them and the current ones, that's it.
Where's the "it looks fine to me" petition?
I actually thought the graphics looked really good, but I've got to admit some of those darker versions on the posted link are pretty awesome.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/frostwake/Diablo31.jpg
#2 too is sooo much more atmospheric, it just wipes the floor with #1. #1 says titanquestesque fantasy, #2 says EPIC.
On the other hand, I don't believe that one's quite as simple as a quick hue, saturation, lightness, contrast change, and I'm not talking about the rain or rainbow obviously.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 01:07
The graphics look beautiful, they're really good but that's not the question, they're amazing for a game related to Warcraft, when we talk about Diablo, they just dont fit, that's what im proposing to Blizzard, make some changes in the art style, that's all, not as dark as that image but a good balance.
The art direction from Diablo 3 is exactly the same as the one from World of Warcraft, not as much cartoonish but the essence is the same...
That's patently false. The essence isnt the same, perhaps what you're looking for is "the lighting is the same"...
Edit: as for the in game picture vs the edited picture... I think the edited one looks terrible. You cant even see the monsters, the rain looks alright in a frozen frame, but imagine if the rain was constantly moving covering that much of the screen, it would be really distracting.
Aside from that, are you supposing that there will be no day / night cycles in the game and that it being perpetually dark is better than any other option (including day/night cycles).
I suppose they could increase the contrast and drop the brightness a little, but if it compromises the playability (like not being able to see the monsters in the 2nd pic) it isn't worth it.
These threads make me
*picture of Picard*
I couldn't agree more. Can we wait until nearer the release date, when we have more information before moaning please? That's if we have to moan at all!
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 01:39
That's patently false. The essence isnt the same, perhaps what you're looking for is "the lighting is the same"...
Edit: as for the in game picture vs the edited picture... I think the edited one looks terrible. You cant even see the monsters, the rain looks alright in a frozen frame, but imagine if the rain was constantly moving covering that much of the screen, it would be really distracting.
Aside from that, are you supposing that there will be no day / night cycles in the game and that it being perpetually dark is better than any other option (including day/night cycles).
I suppose they could increase the contrast and drop the brightness a little, but if it compromises the playability (like not being able to see the monsters in the 2nd pic) it isn't worth it.
Read the full petition before commenting, that picture is just one of the many i posted there, there's even a suggestion to add a light radius system like Diablo 2 had, it's a big miss, something like this:
http://i31.tinypic.com/2zta5o7.jpg
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 01:40
I couldn't agree more. Can we wait until nearer the release date, when we have more information before moaning please? That's if we have to moan at all!
The sooner we show Blizzard what *might* be wrong the better, what's the point of telling them what's wrong 1 day before the game is released? We are just suggesting Blizzard to do something, we dont hate Diablo and we dont hate Blizzard, we just want the game to be better.
Cast_Raider
01-07-2008, 01:43
I actually thought the graphics looked really good, but I've got to admit some of those darker versions on the posted link are pretty awesome.
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l318/frostwake/Diablo31.jpg
#2 too is sooo much more atmospheric, it just wipes the floor with #1. #1 says titanquestesque fantasy, #2 says EPIC.
On the other hand, I don't believe that one's quite as simple as a quick hue, saturation, lightness, contrast change, and I'm not talking about the rain or rainbow obviously.
Oh wow. That's the best before/after yet.
Personally, I thought the interior scenes of the cathedral were pretty good. Not totally 100% authentic Diablo, but still good. Replace the green glows with yellowish candlelight glows and I think it would work better. But overall, it was still very pretty.
Now the outside stuff with the witch doctor, that looked a little fruity to me. Too many pastels. And the architecture seemed a bit Narnia-ish or LOTR-ish or something...as opposed to the mostly gothic look of previous Diablos. Okay, that's being a bit nitpicky, it was mainly the oversaturated pastels.
Rashiminos
01-07-2008, 01:52
Too dark and too sharp. You have jaggies even... Those 2 after pics are not improvements...
If that was my witch doctor, the gamma would be receiving adjustment posthaste.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 01:54
For the last time, it's concept pictures to give an idea of how the game should look, who cares about the jaggies? We are editing them in Photoshop, we dont have access to the engine to make flawless perfect pictures, seriously people.
And read the full petition, there's much more pictures in there and suggestions.
I think you are overdoing it on the example you post although it does look good, saturation somewhere inbetween would be better I think.
And please pay attention to the fact that what you post is a single picture of a whole game. They talk about watching horror movies as inspiration, well we all know horror movies gets their scares from the change of idyllic and quickly into horror, not all horror all the time it doesn't work that way. You are safe and suddenly you are in grave danger.
Maybe this place is meant to be exactly what it looks like, so as to make the difference bigger when you delve into the creepy darkness. You don't know cause you have no clue about the game, as we do neither.
Joshisapoolie
01-07-2008, 02:04
I'm going to be pedantic and point out that alot of act 2 is very bright and vibrant.
I think that would be my favourite act in terms of looks.
Rashiminos
01-07-2008, 02:10
Your concepts aren't good.
They have diablo I and II to look at for reference, I'm sure act III has their attention for art done properly.
BattleWhack
01-07-2008, 02:28
Meh, I'd have to agree a little with the OP (a little)
Those "corrected" pictures look pretty good for a quick shoopjob.
And wtf, rainbows?
Rainbows in my Diablo? It's more likely than you think :(
However, I'm placing my faith in blizzard that suddenly the shiny happy area that I saw isn't a tell for the rest of the (supposedly) large and detailed game world.
Although if their idea of "detailed" means **** like rainbows, we're going to be in trouble.
Diablo should be 180*'s away from WoW, artistically at the VERY least.
Rashiminos
01-07-2008, 02:31
Rainbows are cool, I like my glowing res gear.
BattleWhack
01-07-2008, 02:34
Rainbows are cool, I like my glowing res gear.
:doh: ......
cOMMANDo
01-07-2008, 02:54
i did like some of the doctored darker screens, BUT i think the stuff that is outside is fine.
it would be cool if they made the lighting change from dawn to dusk when you were outside. that would look freaken sweet, plus they could really set the mood with scripted events by having it get dark all of a sudden or storms blow in.
imagine running across a plain, its bright and sunny, you just owned a chit load of monsters and you are checking out your new loot, then all of a sudden you see a huge shadow blot out the sun and then you hear a huge "something" flying over head, then BLAM a huge dragon/monster/boss lands right infront of you. ok, i'm getting carried away, but i cant wait to play this game!!!
Ravenhoe
01-07-2008, 03:05
Blizzard already made a move towards being more bright and colourfol from D1 to D2, didn't they and people did and are still complaining about that, cheering the gothic atmo of D1. There is even a popular mod (BTH) out there that reverts D2 into D1 to some extent.
Personally, I do trust Blizzard all the way, their statements in the panels made it obvious that they are very much aware of the visuals being a key-issue for Diablo players.
A nice mix of bright/colourful & dark/grim areas would be nice. I remember how was relieved to see daylight in D2 after bashing away for an hour in the gloomy dungeons and kinda liked the effect it had one me, so ...
H.
Do you realize that signing a petition like this is opening the door for every nerd with any complaint to start a petition?
Do you also realize that if this petition were to ever go through and actually change blizzards mind that you are possibly pushing back Diablo 3 by possibly 4 more years?
Dont sign this nonsense if you ever want to play Diablo 3
Edit: I just watched the gameplay video again. The barbs weiner isnt long enough! Sign my petition to get Blizzard to change it!
www.delay-d3.com
Enough with that petition because I'm not signing that crap. The 'after' pics are totally ugly and lack substance. It's like the people raving on about the graphics are wrong about what's wrong with D3. It's not the colors, it's the mood. Where are the screeching howls in the dark, the decrepit nature of the walls and such, the chains hanging and dripping water into a puddle with cold, empty echoes, the flickering torches? That's the schtuff it needs. Not this no-color crap scheme you fools are pursuing.
You people are just gonna make the game look boring as hell. You're confusing the old games' narrower color palette and lower resolutions for what gritty, dark, gothic, and realism is.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 03:16
Changing some graphic elements of a game wont delay it for 4 years, that stupid and makes no sense, this petition is just a way to gather all the critics in a single document, i have access to the comments of everyone that signed the petition and its those comments that i will send to blizzard, i dont care about the rest, just about the suggestions and are those suggestions and feedback that any game developer should seek in order to make a better game.
Again, its funny to think people know how to create a better game than blizzard...and considering they have been working on the game for 4 years, im going to guess majority of it was put into creating the artistic design and backgrounds which you are trying to change, so explain how this isnt trying to delay the game
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 03:18
Enough with that petition because I'm not signing that crap. The 'after' pics are totally ugly and lack substance. It's like the people raving on about the graphics are wrong about what's wrong with D3. It's not the colors, it's the mood. Where are the screeching howls in the dark, the decrepit nature of the walls and such, the chains hanging and dripping water into a puddle with cold, empty echoes, the flickering torches? That's the schtuff it needs. Not this no-color crap scheme you fools are pursuing.
You people are just gonna make the game look boring as hell. You're confusing the old games' narrower color palette and lower resolutions for what gritty, dark, gothic, and realism is.If you read the petition you would understand that we want that too but we DONT HAVE ACCESS TO THE ENGINE, we cant add those things to the pictures, those pictures are just an extra, we can only change colors and other minor stuff in Photoshop.
Read the petition, i want that dark, gothic, cryptic mood too and its written in there.
Ravenhoe
01-07-2008, 03:19
Thing is, with graphics getting better and more sophisticated all the time it's really foolish to start petitions to make the DEVs stick with the "Good Ole Thang".
For Instance, I would love to see some more Lucasarts games being released sporting the looks of Monkey Island, Manic Mansion and the lot. But that is not going to happen and you just have to adapt your visual asthetics and see D3 as a "new" chapter, an other discipline if you want.
H.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 03:19
Again, its funny to think people know how to create a better game than blizzard...and considering they have been working on the game for 4 years, im going to guess majority of it was put into creating the artistic design and backgrounds which you are trying to change, so explain how this isnt trying to delay the game
Changing lighting wont delay the game.
Changing textures wont delay the game.
Changing some minor elements wont delay the game.
Even if it delays its for a good reason and it wont be 4 years like some people are saying, that's being stupid.
Changing some graphic elements of a game wont delay it for 4 years, that stupid and makes no sense, this petition is just a way to gather all the critics in a single document, i have access to the comments of everyone that signed the petition and its those comments that i will send to blizzard, i dont care about the rest, just about the suggestions and are those suggestions and feedback that any game developer should seek in order to make a better game.
What kind of comments are you choosing?
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 03:23
What kind of comments are you choosing?
All? Each comment has a number in the back, why would i choose some comments and delete others? Seriously...
All? Each comment has a number in the back, why would i choose some comments and delete others? Seriously...
"i have access to the comments of everyone that signed the petition and its those comments that i will send to blizzard, i dont care about the rest, just about the suggestions and are those suggestions and feedback that any game developer should seek in order to make a better game."
You made it seem as though you'd send only a select group.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 03:28
I was trying to say that I can see the comments (they're hidden to the public) and will send them to Blizzard, there wont be any selection.
This WoW thingy where its all about crying as much as possible as many as possible to change the game into something easier/harder/buffed/nerfed is getting out of hand I think. What makes you think you can decide how a company should make their licensed game. It's their baby not yours.
The whole thing is getting ridicoulus.
How bout the Witchdoctor, many don't like him, lets petition to redo the whole character. Lets make a petition ready for the next info we get, theres surely going to be something there we would change... It it was our company... Which it isn't.
We should make a petition to ask Blizzard to disregard petitions.
BTW: WoW wasnt even released when they started working on Diablo 3 :-P
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 03:53
It's no use, i give up trying to say we're just giving feedback to blizzard instead of blindly accepting and appraising everything they make, if you cant understand this, well, its your problem, i wont say anything else about this.
You have to understand too that theres really alot of us anticipating this game. It does annoy that a fraction or a group suddenly tries to hijack into their own desired direction. It's not as much that you don't have a point, it's the whats next then. Petition for an AH, I hope not. For removal of the witchdoctor, I hope neither.
In WoW every class forum is an ongoing whine for nerfs to others and buffs to themselves, it just feels so much like being in kindergarden. And not with people of the appropriate age, no it's teenagers and onwards all ranting on and on. I just resent this kind of high pitched lobbyism altogether.
And face it; in WoW they never listens to the constant demands, with new patches the changes are always something different and unexpected. I really don't think the community in WoW for example has the say it think it does. And luckilly so.
So far, I'm loving the look from the video. I have no issue with it. Not everything has to be dark and monotonous. It is OK to have some color...
It's no use, i give up trying to say we're just giving feedback to blizzard instead of blindly accepting and appraising everything they make, if you cant understand this, well, its your problem, i wont say anything else about this.
When you started taking petition signatures, and trying to advertise that fact on forums, you went beyond just giving feedback.
Right now you're not just giving feedback your soliciting an idea. well, several ideas. The game isnt dark enough, it would be better if the palette didn't have as many colors, it borrows too much from WoW, etc.
Giving feedback would be something like "i think the game is too bright, there isnt enough contrast" not "the game should look like this, and it is too much like wow, sign my petition and I will send all the signatures to blizzard!"
aSimpleFear
01-07-2008, 04:24
omfg if we follow this line of thinking we'll end up with Hellgate london.
"Ok EVERYTHING has to take place in dark tunnels. Lets make everything dark and gray and all monsters have to be zombies"
What made Diablo 2 great was the variety of the tilesets. You go from Act1 (grasslands) to Act2 (desert) to act3 (forest) to Act 4 (Dark hell) to Act 5 (Frigid northlands)...
Anyone else noticing how colorful Diablo 2 IS when you actually think about it??? Act 2 was extremely bright and colorful, Act 3 was colorful in its own right (the little stygmy's and their brightly colored hair and stuff) act 4 contrasted black ground with bright red lava and act 5 was a nice blue ice/snow tileset.
My point is I actually really, REALLY, like the look of the game based on the videos. Diablo 1 was too dark and grungy to be honest, you could only play it 1 or 2 times through. Diablo 2 had the variety to keep you coming back.
I'm a tad torn. On one hand, I do see the similarities between DIII's design and WoW's and it makes me cringe; on the other .. was DII really that different? I believe we remember things differently than they are. I'm actively playing DII right now, and it is very cartoony as well -- the only reason it's "gritty" is because it's so pixelated.
I saw the fan-made images where they toned down the saturation and brightness, and I do honestly think they look better than the original shots. However, as a whole, I think it's a dangerous precedent to de-saturate the entire game into dark, sepia tones. What might look really appealing in a screenshot you look at for 5 seconds may become agonizingly dull after 20, 30, 100, or 200 hours of playtime. Look at Hellgate for a wonderful example of what looks great for a few minutes but becomes depressing after a few hours. Color really is necessary.
Edit: Ninja'd by the poster above me with the Hellgate comment.. Hehe.
Edit #2: I would also like to mention that the one thing I am entirely unhappy with is the look of Deckard Cain so far.
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 04:47
Are you sure you guys aren't just accepting something with the name of D3 on it just so you can claim you played D3?
Okay. Color... Color theory. I'm hearing a lot of people saying Act 2 was bright. No it was not. Act 2 had warm colors, but these colors were not happy colors.
Say we have something like that bridge. Say it was made of gold. Would you want it to be canary yellow with an amber sun beaming down on it or would you want it to be brass colored with a slight amber/gray mix sun beaming down and the contrast uped a bit to show off the shadows?
It's not that it's too colorful, it's too happy colorful. There's a difference between green and forrest green. There's a difference between yellow and the color of sand or brass.
The example pics weren't bad. But they weren't much better than what's already there.
I hate to use an analogy, but it's like composing music. The color scheme that they're using right now, even in the dark parts of the game are all in sharp notes or major scales.
Diablo should be composed in flat notes and minor scales.
There are warm colors and there are cold colors. But even with those colors, you can mix a certain drab or florescence about them and make them happy or sad colors.
Diablo needs more drab. Drab is not a bad thing. A lot of games like Call Of Duty 4 use drab colors and it works. The world there looks foreboding and dark and half the time, the game is depicted in the day time.
For example, there's a difference between the color red and the color ox blood.
I do agree almost 100% with Kaeros post.
But I did sign the petition.
Some things that I really didn't like were the life/mana ORBs(they seem hand-drawn...), the green light everywhere at the dungeon and specially the conversation characters. They REALLY looked like Warcraft 3 / WoW. And they ARE VERY CARTOONISH.
In contrast, I don't feel that bad about open areas or them being more colorful. I just think that a dungeon should be a dungeon and not a super-lighted and clean area. I couldn't agree more with the "how it should look like" images for dungeons, specially the light radius. I also agree very much with sounds, chains and background art in general. If that dungeon we saw was one of the first levels of something like the Tristram church, for example, I agree that it doesn't need to be too much gritty, but as you progress on/below, it should be always darker and darker. Other things can affect the view; if it's a dungeon explored by many adventurers, it should have a lot of bodies, chained people, etc. If it's not and you're one of the first getting there, it can be more clean, or have more skeletons than full corpses. D1 was like that and worked very well.
In the end, I agree with the petition, until some extent. But I agree more with it than with the current looks, and that's what made me sign it. It's already TOO wowish mainly because of the low-poly count on everything(I won't argue with that because I know Blizz does this so it can be played on every system). If we get all those colors and brightness everywhere though(even at dungeons), I think the blood and gore are needless and they can just release a title like Mythos instead, which wouldn't require a M rating.
...
I'm interested in your opinion of Hellgate: London's art direction and what you thought of it? It definitely goes for the drab, dark look you're speaking of, but I personally don't think it was successful. Your thoughts?
Secondly, I do see what you're saying. However, I'd like to reiterate that I think it'd be a dangerous precedent to make the goal of the art direction to be "drabness." Diablo I & II had it, but does that mean the same direction is necessary now?
In other words, if it's possible to still make a foreboding, evil atmosphere with the use of more vivid, more interesting-to-look-at colors, then why not? I don't think the spirit of Diablo is at risk whatsoever if the use of more color is done tactfully. I do, however, think they need to 'dirty' things up a bit with more corpses and rubble to give it the Diablo feel. I also think they're sliding into WoW territory with the character models, which are a little too exaggerated and cartoonish for my tastes. Deckard Cain's new "goofy old man" look/personality really hits a sour note with me, for example.
Scary colors.
http://www.bomb.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/pennywise.jpg
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 05:38
http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview
The lead guy has a hard on for Warcraft 3. Doesn't matter. WC3 has influenced the art direction of Diablo 3. Time to accept it and move on.
Listen to this guy talk about Diablo 3. The dude would not STFU about Warcraft.
So I have a better idea. Go ahead and let Blizzard blow their Warcraft load all over Diablo 3. But let the community have the ability to make mods. If that's the case, I'll be waiting to see the fans make D3 what it was meant to be.
Seriously... listen to that guy. Everything he was saying was disappointing me. Most of the content is done he claims. If that's the case, they're too far along to make any decent changes. Let's hope the modding community could fix their failures.
Basically, get rid of the cartoonish colored ambient lighting and make it more natural. A lot of people would stop complaining.
But I think it's obvious that they want D3 to have a clean look like Warcraft has. It's just something we're going to have to deal with now...
Thank you kontankarite for saving me from a lot of typing.
It's not too early to criticize what we've seen, just as it isn't too early to agree with and praise what we've seen. Posting picard pictures and mocking people that disagree with you makes you look like a fanboy, not a fan.
The majority of what I saw in the gameplay video could have been taken from a WoW-ified Titan Quest expansion.
http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview
The lead guy has a hard on for Warcraft 3. Doesn't matter. WC3 has influenced the art direction of Diablo 3. Time to accept it and move on.
Listen to this guy talk about Diablo 3. The dude would not STFU about Warcraft.
So I have a better idea. Go ahead and let Blizzard blow their Warcraft load all over Diablo 3. But let the community have the ability to make mods. If that's the case, I'll be waiting to see the fans make D3 what it was meant to be.
Seriously... listen to that guy. Everything he was saying was disappointing me. Most of the content is done he claims. If that's the case, they're too far along to make any decent changes. Let's hope the modding community could fix their failures.
Basically, get rid of the cartoonish colored ambient lighting and make it more natural. A lot of people would stop complaining.
But I think it's obvious that they want D3 too have a clean look like Warcraft has. It's just something we're going to have to deal with now...
I think you're getting extremely riled up over something you've never played and furthermore only seen 20 minutes of footage of.
Blizzard has been very consistent with the art direction of the sequels in their franchises. Warcraft III was directly influenced by the cartoony look of II, and WOW runs on a modified engine of III. Starcraft II is shaping up to be a good-looking 3D version of it's ancestor, and since their initial screenshots they've turned down the saturation to match it even moreso. Finally, Diablo II retained a lot of the art direction of Diablo -- have faith that their consistency will continue in III.
They're not dumb, they know Diablo fans don't want a WOW-clone, or anything near it. Give it time, and maybe withhold your rage for more than 2 days after release of the first screenshots and gameplay.
Look to my last post for what I think, specifically, about the current graphics.
EDIT: Also, I think it's important to keep in mind that Blizzard works with a minimum of polygons. Inevitably, the end-product is going to look a little chunky. Perhaps Blizzard's new games seem "Warcraft-ish" only because WCIII was the first game they released in full 3D, and the "low polygon look" automatically -- and unfairly -- harkens to it.
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 05:52
I think you're getting extremely riled up over something you've never played and furthermore only seen 20 minutes of footage of.
Blizzard has been very consistent with the art direction of the sequels in their franchises. Warcraft III was directly influenced by the cartoony look of II, and WOW runs on a modified engine of III. Starcraft II is shaping up to be a good-looking 3D version of it's ancestor, and since their initial screenshots they've turned down the saturation to match it even moreso. Finally, Diablo II retained a lot of the art direction of Diablo -- have faith that their consistency will continue in III.
They're not dumb, they know Diablo fans don't want a WOW-clone, or anything near it. Give it time, and maybe withhold your rage for more than 2 days after release of the first screenshots and gameplay.
Look to my last post for what I think, specifically, about the current graphics.
Did you see the interview? The guy WANTED to put color into the game. Lots of vibrant color. Apparently, they didn't want Diablo 3 to look dark.
Did you see the interview? The guy WANTED to put color into the game. Lots of vibrant color. Apparently, they didn't want Diablo 3 to look dark.
Yeah. Did you read my post? "If it's possible to still make a foreboding, evil atmosphere with the use of more vivid, more interesting-to-look-at colors, then why not?"
You know as well as I do Diablo's lair isn't going to be full of rainbow pinks and bright happy sunlight. I'm certain that as the game progresses, the color palette will change accordingly. I think that with proper doodad use and proper music to set the mood, the more vivid colors -- contrasting with the deep shadows, making the blacks even blacker -- will enhance the experience.
I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree, but I think you're jumping the gun on this whole conspiracy that DIII is going to be Warcraft 3.5.
Did you see the interview? The guy WANTED to put color into the game. Lots of vibrant color. Apparently, they didn't want Diablo 3 to look dark.
I just watched the interview. :hammerhead:
I hope there's still possibility for change.
Kaeros, don't you find SC2 wowish? I never liked the shape WC3 took, and I can't help but find both SC2 and D3 much similar.
SC2 specially the zerg; D3, specially the characters in conversation mode.
Maybe they're not aiming at being cartoonish, they're just (as they say) making it "stylized" as to look fair enough even with low-poly count to run on most machines. But the end result is that it all looks cartoony. I think since WC3 exaggerated on that aspect, we see anything resembling that a little as cartoony.
Biased opinion or not, I sure don't like it. D3's got the action part portrayed soooo well that it overcomes this problem for me, but I'll keep thinking of D1 as the best Diablo until now, art style-wise.
That video of Rob Pardo interview should really be taken into light with this petition. Someone cited it saying all he does is say warcraft this warcraft that, but did you actually watch the video? Lol...
He talks about the SERVERS of WoW saying D3 is going to be pretty global with not nearly as mainy restrictions on servers (I.E. North America is one server)
He also talked about the matchmaking system of Warcraft 3 and was saying how easy it was to get the right people playing in a game together.
So first off all, your claims that Rob Pardo is shoving Warcraft into this game is unfounded and you are just looking for a reason to complain.
Secondly, if you listened to the video, he says this is the THIRD change in art direction they have gone through which has taken up majority of the time. He says that what they are really trying to accomplish is "make a more colorful world where dark is the mood and not necessarily the environment."
so have fun with your petition but it sounds like they are pretty sold on the idea that they currently have into place. I also personally think that this is an interesting idea that could make or break the game for staying true to D3. I dont think its necesarrily the best move (there you can quote me on it) but if they accomplish keeping a horrifyingly dark goth game but the sun is out in the background, I feel like it will leave room for little complaints...
Kaeros, don't you find SC2 wowish? I never liked the shape WC3 took, and I can't help but find both SC2 and D3 much similar.
SC2 specially the zerg; D3, specially the characters in conversation mode.
Maybe they're not aiming at being cartoonish, they're just (as they say) making it "stylized" as to look fair enough even with low-poly count to run on most machines. But the end result is that it all looks cartoony. I think since WC3 exaggerated on that aspect, we see anything resembling that a little as cartoony.
Biased opinion or not, I sure don't like it. D3's got the action part portrayed soooo well that it overcomes this problem for me, but I'll keep thinking of D1 as the best Diablo until now, art style-wise.
Ok, double post here but this is a different point i dont want to add to my (better) thought out post above this one.
why do you think SC2 and D3 and WoW all look the same? ITS CALLED A 3D ENGINE. It isnt "WoW" looking, its in 3-D. The time period we live in is not 10 years ago. You SHOULDNT want it to look like Diablo 2 for crying out loud.
Did you see the interview? The guy WANTED to put color into the game. Lots of vibrant color. Apparently, they didn't want Diablo 3 to look dark.
Uh, he said they wanted to add color to the game because they want the darkness to be a feeling not a color pallette.
One of the biggest complaints you see in current gen games is of the "realism" of games it leaves it washed out and makes everything look boring. Colorful games almost always get praise for their use of color as long as it's well.
Aside from that, in the interview he uses WoW only once to contrast of how D3 ISN'T going to be. And that's talking about matchmaking more than anything else.
You're really stretching. He said they wanted to add color to the game but keep the same gothic feeling. That's fair enough to me. Games with color are much less monotonous to look at. Games who use washed out palettes end up feeling like the game has no variety: See hellgate: london for an example.
As for the "cartoony" feel, please. The characters dont look cartoony, and neither do the monsters.
Kaeros, don't you find SC2 wowish? I never liked the shape WC3 took, and I can't help but find both SC2 and D3 much similar.
SC2 specially the zerg; D3, specially the characters in conversation mode.
Maybe they're not aiming at being cartoonish, they're just (as they say) making it "stylized" as to look fair enough even with low-poly count to run on most machines. But the end result is that it all looks cartoony. I think since WC3 exaggerated on that aspect, we see anything resembling that a little as cartoony.
Biased opinion or not, I sure don't like it. D3's got the action part portrayed soooo well that it overcomes this problem for me, but I'll keep thinking of D1 as the best Diablo until now, art style-wise.
Last post before I hit the sack.
No, I don't really think SC2 looks Warcraft-ish, persay. It's, like you said, just a result of their commitment to a low-polygon count.
In a perfect world, I'd love realistically detailed characters that look the spittin' image of their 2D counterparts. However, that just isn't realistic unless Blizzard wanted to isolate a huge portion of their customer base. If you think there are a lot of complaints about the art direction for DIII, just imagine what it'd be like if the min req's required a top-end machine.
Brutally honest, I don't like the low-polygon look either. But it's the way it is, and I think they did as good a job as they could with both SCII and DIII from what little I've seen so far. There's still lots of room for improvement, but I don't think de-saturation is the answer.
Oyasuminasai. ;)
EDIT: And yes, I agree, it's most noticable in the conversation screens .. for obvious reasons. The Zerg are the most recently-revealed race, and I reckon they have a lot of graphical work left to do on them.
Ok, at first I was about to say "Oh god, not another idiot petition!"....but, I did click on the link the OP provided and looked at the screenshots.
I actually do agree completely that these altered darker themed images are not only much more Diabloesque, but more appealing as well. After looking at these images, this is the Diablo 3 I want to play, not what has been posted at Blizzard.
Problem here is that games with flashy bright colored eye candy FX that make kids go "Ooh" and "Ahh" sell better than games that have darker themes. Some of these consoles games simply amaze me by the fact their is no intelligence to them other than they have lots of splashy colory FX. Beyond that these games just seem so inane.
As for the petition, I think people should have a right to speak up, it will be their money after all that pays for the development of this game. Even better would be if in the Graphics option in the game to be able to set both modes, one for darker theme and one for lighter and brighter. That is how the petition should be directed in my opinion, ask for the option.
ITS CALLED A 3D ENGINE. It isnt "WoW" looking, its in 3-D. The time period we live in is not 10 years ago. You SHOULDNT want it to look like Diablo 2 for crying out loud.
errm... do you see ALL current 3D games looking like this? Man, your point is really flawed, you're just repeating something someone said and being trollish. The game looks like this for a chosen reason (as I said, probably to be really light on machine resources), not for any technology-related wall. Look at recent RTS games, they're usually a lot heavier and have really good-looking units that are not cartoony at all. It has NOTHING to do with 3D technology. I'm a computer engineer finishing my master's decree and I'm not talking idly of something I don't know. Please be constructive and do not troll, try to add your view on things. I never said I wanted it to look like D2, in fact D2 looks horrible today.
Last post before I hit the sack.
No, I don't really think SC2 looks Warcraft-ish, persay. It's, like you said, just a result of their commitment to a low-polygon count.
In a perfect world, I'd love realistically detailed characters that look the spittin' image of their 2D counterparts. However, that just isn't realistic unless Blizzard wanted to isolate a huge portion of their customer base. If you think there are a lot of complaints about the art direction for DIII, just imagine what it'd be like if the min req's required a top-end machine.
...
EDIT: And yes, I agree, it's most noticable in the conversation screens .. for obvious reasons. The Zerg are the most recently-revealed race, and I reckon they have a lot of graphical work left to do on them.
Thank you for your opinions. The poly-count may really be the problem here but with the entry-level cards we have today, I think they could up things a little(which would improve very much the looks) without excluding most. Then we have to take into account 1.5 years or more entry-level cards, which will be better than the present ones.
The best option would be to include a detail setting. Things could look more detailed with better machines, and more "stylized" with lower machines. I mean, leaning towards "stylized" on lower machines instead of just lower quality as all games do. That would have to be scaled automatically or else it would be too much trouble. If they could come up with that, it would be a good solution and even a great feature for their engine. One could write a paper on an algorithm like that :scratchchin:
That is, if something like that doesn't already exists...
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 07:12
That's what I'm saying. If one can up the texture resolutions and lower the ambient lighting effects in D3 within the video options menu, I think you could capture both a colorful kind of diablo and a more darker, broodier kind.
I doubt it would be THAT hard.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 14:45
why do you think SC2 and D3 and WoW all look the same? ITS CALLED A 3D ENGINE. It isnt "WoW" looking, its in 3-D. The time period we live in is not 10 years ago. You SHOULDNT want it to look like Diablo 2 for crying out loud.
No offense but you know nothing about 3D modeling and game developing, otherwise you wouldnt say that, that is a completely ignorant opinion, you can have 3D graphics without making them cartoonish and yes, Diablo 3 is heavily influenced in Warcraft art style, anyone can see this.
Blizzard was known for having distinct, individual franchises with very different directions in their art styles, each game (diablo, warcraft, starcraft) had REALLY different artistic directions, now they dont, they're converging to a single style and it's not because they're in 3D, that's ignorant.
Anyway 1100 signatures, ill keep this online for a few more days.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 15:03
No offense but you know nothing about 3D modeling and game developing, otherwise you wouldnt say that, that is a completely ignorant opinion, you can have 3D graphics without making them cartoonish and yes, Diablo 3 is heavily influenced in Warcraft art style, anyone can see this.
You are talking about ignorance, yet you are basing the "cartoon" style on a few screenshots. First, comparing screens to catch a mood is stupid. You do not know how the scene of an interactive, dynamic game feels with just pics. Secondly, the game looks anything but like WoW.
Pitboss_2000
01-07-2008, 15:10
"Which level did you like best? The brown castle, they grey fortress or the other brown castle?". Add some colour and some variety, and give the game a unique, distinct look for christ's sake.
Besides that, Act 1 in D2 was mostly outdoors on green plains, Act 2 was in a desert with matching yellow/brownish dungeons, Act 3 was outdoors in the desert... Only Act 4 was truely dark/gothic, and Act 5 was mostly outside and (boring?) brown. Oh, except for the bright ice caves.
Edit: regarding the petition: how can you compare screenshots to actual gameplay, with animations, dynamic light and everything? Besides that, if I look at most of the edited screenshots, you might as well play the game in a 800x600 window, since you won't be able to see a darn thing if it's not in the centre of your screen since everything is so dark.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 15:13
"Which level did you like best? The brown castle, they grey fortress or the other brown castle?". Add some colour and some variety, and give the game a unique, distinct look for christ's sake.
Besides that, Act 1 in D2 was mostly outdoors on green plains, Act 2 was in a desert with matching yellow/brownish dungeons, Act 3 was outdoors in the desert... Only Act 4 was truely dark/gothic, and Act 5 was mostly outside and (boring?) brown. Oh, except for the bright ice caves.
I agree. D1 was truely dark and gothic. The music, the atmosphere, everything fit in. D2 was more... friendly? Less dark? Something like that. BTW, act4 weas jungle. ;)
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 15:15
True but Diablo 2 had an independent art style, really different than Warcraft and Starcraft, original and unique artistic direction, Diablo 3 dont have that independent art style, that's what i want, separate creative paths for each franchise and that Diablo path is all about dark and gloomy styles.
Ammareddo_Fritter
01-07-2008, 15:41
:o
Taken yesterday
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8360/screenshot01xq4.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/8360/screenshot01xq4.jpg
Its almost 1300 now, but it doesn't matter, because it won't have the slightest effect.
The game has been in development for 4-5 years, which means the art direction is set in stone. They are not going to hold the game back 2-3 years to change the art direction just cause 2000 panicky fanboys ignored the 'nothing is final' warning and had a massive kneejerk reaction when they saw the game wasn't steeped in 30 shades of grey.
Me? I like a bit of color. I absolutely refuse to believe that the entire world of Sanctuary is nothing but grey, brown and black gothic buildings every where you go. To hell with that, give us some variety. Give us lush, rolling hills full of vibrant greens and color that descend into hellish valleys of charred black ground, burning trees and bloody bodies everywhere.
As previously stated, the only part of Diablo 2 that was dark, gloomy and gothic and that was act 4. The caves in act 1, while being dark, were all the same shade of grey wherever you went.
What is the point of making Diablo 3 if its just going to be the same as Diablo 2?
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 15:48
This petition is believable and does not provoke suspicion that the counter rises constantly every 15s.
I signed it and I surely hope the guys at Blizzard will take notice. Like people have pointed out, still early and things might change. Lets hope that the lightning and colors can be toned town a bit.
I don't know who provided the pics for suggested colors/lightning but he certainly did manage to capture the atmosphere that I'd like for D3 to have. Darker and more mature. Seeing many D3 fans, including me, have been around since the first days of D1 I think we're old enough to handle it.
Hoping for the best,
regards
The 3-D engine reasoning for all looking the same was mainly directed at Blizzard and the way they create their 3-D games. The engine they use is clearly to try and get more users playing their games because it lowers the system specs of the games they are creating.
Hopefully Blizzard doesnt care what this petition says. Lets estimate around 4 million D2 fans? 1% of them dont matter right? :-P
TraderScope
01-07-2008, 17:18
Jay Wilson, Diablo 3 Lead Designer, before showing the game-play trailer at WWi:
"Before we begin, I would like to remind you all that what you gonna see today is a work in progress (WIP). Nothing is final." (Exact Quote.)
I would like you all to think of those words. Thank you. I still have my faith in Blizzard.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 17:21
Jay Wilson, Diablo 3 Lead Designer, before showing the game-play trailer at WWi:
"Before we begin, I would like to remind you all that what you gonna see today is a work in progress (WIP). Nothing is final." (Exact Quote.)
I would like you all to think of those words. Thank you. I still have my faith in Blizzard.
Q: The game is still under development, it's on pre alpha stage, we only saw the first act, much can change.
A: True, the game is still under development but the artistic direction isnt since it's one of the first steps in the development of a game, until you have a fully developed artistic direction and concept you cant easily move on with the development of the game, the artistic direction will tell the artists (modelers, texture artists, etc) how the game elements shall look and feel. Since this artistic direction is already fully and happily developed (words from Blizzard) this cartoon'ish and colorful style will be present in the whole game.
Q: The game is still under development, it's on pre alpha stage, we only saw the first act, much can change.
A: True, the game is still under development but the artistic direction isnt since it's one of the first steps in the development of a game, until you have a fully developed artistic direction and concept you cant easily move on with the development of the game, the artistic direction will tell the artists (modelers, texture artists, etc) how the game elements shall look and feel. Since this artistic direction is already fully and happily developed (words from Blizzard) this cartoon'ish and colorful style will be present in the whole game.
You dont know that. You are making assumptions which makes an *** out of u and me (woo). You saw 10 min of 1 dungeon and 10 min of 1 area outside of a dungeon.
By that logic I could say this: Act 1 in Diablo 2 is grassy and wide open with no false paths, therefore Acts 2-5 will be grassy, wide open with no false paths.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 17:30
Diablo 2 obeys to the same art style in the whole game, Diablo 3 will be the same, they wont have cartoonish graphics in Act 1, realistic (conan of war alike) graphics in Act 2 and Titan Quest graphics in Act 3, it's not about that, it's about the art direction and how cartoonish it is, it will be cartoonish in the whole game.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 17:32
And yes, it's obvious that the other acts will have much different environments but the cartoonish art style will remain, that's my point.
Sokar Rostau
01-07-2008, 17:52
As I said in the other (of many) topic, this reaction is unwarranted and meaningless.
Regarding bright colours, someone posted D2 screenies of various Acts taken during the daytime. The response was someone that posted D2 screenies of various locations taken at night to prove the opposite, that D2 was dark. Guess what? Daytime is bright and colourful and nighttime is dark and monotonous.
Here's a little fact a lot of people seem to have forgotten: D2 has a Day/Night cycle. D2 has weather patterns.
If you watch the trailer of Leoric Highlands you will see time progressing and the place gradually becoming more gloomy. You will also see the weather change. The same screen that the OP went to so much trouble to modify by making it a dark and stormy night is a view of that area during the day in perfect weather. "But it would look so much better on a dark and stormy night!" Guess what? D3 has Day/Night cycles and weather patterns. You'll get your dark and stormy night.
And it would help to actually watch the gameplay trailer before making "suggested changes". There already is a Light Radius on the characters.
The complaint of the armour having things like big shoulder pads making it look WoWish is also ridiculous. Have you never played D2? Have you never seen a Necromancer in Trang armour? A Barbarian in IK? A Druid in just about anything?
Honestly, quit whining.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 17:59
Dont compare these armors:
http://www.michaeldashow.com/games/barbarian_armor.jpg
To these
http://www.diabloii.net/gallery/data/546/medium/ss9-hires.jpg
The Diablo 3 armors have Warcraft written all over them, seriously, cant you really see how similar they are?
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 18:07
Something less "HEY LOOK AT ME, im an attention seeker, look how big and colorful my armor is and how well I can move inside this overly done piece of metal, even when im just a fragile girl".
DarkVenger
01-07-2008, 18:10
because there is color doesnt make it bad and did u look at the video overall I think the look is better than d2 hell I think diablo 1 looked darker than d2 I think D3 will have a very nice atmosphere with the art style and soundtrack it has in the video give them time and thats only one exemple of an armor in d3
I have some stuff on this coming up later in a video interview. I saw the thread here regarding it at the weekend and asked them.
Not as in for armor.
As in stop whining. Blizzard hasn't made a bad game yet. They didn't achieve it by listening to every gripe their fans had. If you don't like it, don't buy the game, simple as that. Most of the people like it, or don't care enough about it - you're in the distinct minority.
Plus these were the first pre-alpha shots and gameplay footage. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 18:18
Dont compare these armors:
To these
The Diablo 3 armors have Warcraft written all over them, seriously, cant you really see how similar they are?
I agree. You need similar pics to compare them or the comparison is invalid.
Why not? T6 looks awesome.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 18:22
D3: http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/_images/screenshots/ss9-hires.jpg
WoW: http://www.about-world-of-warcraft.com/images/Paladin.gif
D3: http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/885/885115/diablo-iii-20080628035157755_640w.jpg
WoW: http://www.novagamers.com/albums/album03/Archmage_Arugal.sized.jpg
This last one not comparing armors but the environments.
I think you guys are confusing two different things:
1) COLOUR: the main gripe is that dungeons don't turn out to all having glowing green lights, and also that they in general be less colorful. The OP and most people also think that open areas should be less colorful, in my opinion open areas should vary accordingly to their stories. EVERYONE (even the ones that didn't sign the petition) AGREES THAT RAINBOWS MUST GO! :D
2) WOW FEELING: That comes mostly from the low polygon count and art style. But then, the art style may just be derived from the low poly count. In my opinion, even cheap cards from today(look at the onboard graphics from 780g chipset, the new radeon 4850, etc) can probably run D3 as it stands with low, medium or even highest settings(case of radeon 4850). If the radeon now costs $170-199(launch price) and can be found for even $150, imagine what it'll cost in 1.5-2 years. It'll be the entry level card for most. And if even onboard graphics are powerful enough to handle the game, I think D3 could really upgrade the polygon count a little, and leave that art style.
Examples: look at the candles and other things laying around in the dungeon part of the video. There's WoW all over the place, it's not just the characters. The characters in conversation mode are copy/pasted from Warcraft 3. Deckard Cain has been turned into Goofy, old version.
Anyway, based on my little knowledge of 3D and what I see from most games, I suspect the polygon count may be an issue but is less prevalent than the art style. I think they just want to make a bridge with Warcraft/WoW there to suck that franchise's fans in.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 18:23
Not as in for armor.
As in stop whining. Blizzard hasn't made a bad game yet. They didn't achieve it by listening to every gripe their fans had. If you don't like it, don't buy the game, simple as that. Most of the people like it, or don't care enough about it - you're in the distinct minority.
Plus these were the first pre-alpha shots and gameplay footage. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
For gods sake, stop using the same "its pre alpha shots".
Q: The game is still under development, it's on pre alpha stage, we only saw the first act, much can change.
A: True, the game is still under development but the artistic direction isnt since it's one of the first steps in the development of a game, until you have a fully developed artistic direction and concept you cant easily move on with the development of the game, the artistic direction will tell the artists (modelers, texture artists, etc) how the game elements shall look and feel. Since this artistic direction is already fully and happily developed (words from Blizzard) this cartoon'ish and colorful style will be present in the whole game.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 18:29
For gods sake, stop using the same "its pre alpha shots".
WoW changed more than a little bit from early development to release.
You are also one of those who says WAR graphics suck based on pre-release pictures, right?
You don't know how it will look like. It is too early to say anything. But people will whine endlessly anyway.
saying itsin pre-alpha is a very valid excuse. The other biggest excuse? youve seen 20 minutes of the game and are assuming the rest will be identical. Its funny as you guys are wearing blinders to believe what you want to believe no matter what anyone says.
Its kind of like a cult :-P
Even blizzard: Work in Progress
Just look what I found here, it corroborates my thoughts:
"Jay Wilson: Yeah, actually, I do think that. I think players like things that they are familiar with and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with them saying: “Oh, this class is like the warrior in WoW. Cool, I wanna play that!” Especially if it’s going to get them into the game. I think we gain as much as we could lose, people love to see something familiar and the reaction to Whirlwind was a great example."
http://kotaku.com/5020721/the-man-behind-diablo-iii-talks-plot-lore-and-battlenet
saying itsin pre-alpha is a very valid excuse. The other biggest excuse? youve seen 20 minutes of the game and are assuming the rest will be identical. Its funny as you guys are wearing blinders to believe what you want to believe no matter what anyone says.
Its kind of like a cult :-P
Even blizzard: Work in Progress
Please read my previous post about confusing things. You can say that about color, you cannot say that about art style / polygon count.
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 19:02
I find it funny how people think 20 mins of video isn't enough to have an opinion on it and not only that, somehow a lot of D fans think that by the time the game is released it's going to look heavily different or better. Sure, we can hope. But watch the interview. The guy was talking about the art direction. It originally was going to look like the Diablo series. What they've opted out for is a much darker and gloomier comic book look of Warcraft.
See those ambient green and blue lights everywhere? See that bright, happy, near cartoonish sunshine? That's the mark of the artistic direction they're going to go for for Diablo 3. Realize that people. It's not just because it's low poly. This art that you see will be consistent throughout the entire game. We're not going to see dark warcraft graphics and the worse it gets in the game the more it's going to start looking like Diablo 2 cinematics.
This is WHY they're showing the video. They've been developing this game for 3 or 4 years now. The WoW undertones of the game are ingrained in this thing's veins and it's not going to change. You're going to get purple nights, dark blue evenings, orange days. Seriously, the lighting IS NOT NATURAL. The textures of the ground and stones, look closely. They are clean and smooth like an attempt to make a comic book.
They're not going to change this unless they take on a totally different art direction, in which it WILL delay the game another year or two.
So yeah. Let them release this thing. Once it's out, let's hope to mother loving GOD we have the ability to make mods because the community WILL capture the aesthetic that is diablo if we have the capabilities to mod the graphics ourselves.
Moon light is not blue or purple or even green. It's a near whitish blue that has the ability to make things such as dew appear silver. All this game needs is more "grit" as in better textured grounds and stones and a direction to more natural lighting. The community will be more than capable of doing that if we have the editing tools to do it. Let's hope that that can happen.
Nostavar
01-07-2008, 19:02
saying itsin pre-alpha is a very valid excuse. The other biggest excuse? youve seen 20 minutes of the game and are assuming the rest will be identical. Its funny as you guys are wearing blinders to believe what you want to believe no matter what anyone says.
Its kind of like a cult :-P
Even blizzard: Work in Progress
Quit being so dumb, Bill. There's no assumption being made here. Here's how it goes.
- Blizzard shows us something of the game
- We think there might be room for improvement
- We tell them what we think would be neat
- They have the choice to ignore it or consider it
So what are you whining about? If it isn't final, ie, they are going to change things regardless of what anyone says, no harm is done. Please tell me what's wrong with letting them know what kind of things we would like for Diablo 3.
You're hugely overreacting about people giving their opinion.
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 19:03
I find it funny how people think 20 mins of video isn't enough to have an opinion on it and not only that, somehow a lot of D fans think that by the time the game is released it's going to look heavily different or better. Sure, we can hope. But watch the interview. The guy was talking about the art direction. It originally was going to look like the Diablo series. What they've opted out for is a much darker and gloomier comic book look of Warcraft.
See those ambient green and blue lights everywhere? See that bright, happy, near cartoonish sunshine? That's the mark of the artistic direction they're going to go for for Diablo 3. Realize that people. It's not just because it's low poly. This art that you see will be consistent throughout the entire game. We're not going to see dark warcraft graphics and the worse it gets in the game the more it's going to start looking like Diablo 2 cinematics.
This is WHY they're showing the video. They've been developing this game for 3 or 4 years now. The WoW undertones of the game are ingrained in this thing's veins and it's not going to change. You're going to get purple nights, dark blue evenings, orange days. Seriously, the lighting IS NOT NATURAL. The textures of the ground and stones, look closely. They are clean and smooth like an attempt to make a comic book.
They're not going to change this unless they take on a totally different art direction, in which it WILL delay the game another year or two.
So yeah. Let them release this thing. Once it's out, let's hope to mother loving GOD we have the ability to make mods because the community WILL capture the aesthetic that is diablo if we have the capabilities to mod the graphics ourselves.
Moon light is not blue or purple or even green. It's a near whitish blue that has the ability to make things such as dew appear silver. All this game needs is more "grit" as in better textured grounds and stones and a direction to more natural lighting. The community will be more than capable of doing that if we have the editing tools to do it. Let's hope that that can happen.
Rashiminos
01-07-2008, 19:05
What's wrong with sunshine again?
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 19:11
Nothing wrong with sunshine, the art style is wrong, not the sunshine.
Rashiminos
01-07-2008, 19:20
I wouldn't care if they cel-shaded the game.
think about this. what if the game is 80% done? what if 40% of that was the games art? it seems the game has been in production for what ? 5 years? if they change all the in game art it will push back the game a year or two more.
so if you want all the art changed be prepared to have a late release.
Maybe not. They said they went through 3 art styles, and the other 2 are certainly still there in their hands. I bet one of them is a dark and gritty one with more not-cartoony shapes.
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 20:32
Did it escape some of you that they're happy with the way it looks? I'm not saying they wont deliver a great Diablo game, but I'm certainly rooting for the community to make graphical mods. Here's hoping they'll have the ability to do it.
They're happy with what they've got. So I have no faith in the graphics of D3. But, I can leave that to the community that's more than willing to implement graphical mods that will make it look more Diablo.
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 20:32
Did it escape some of you that they're happy with the way it looks? I'm not saying they wont deliver a great Diablo game, but I'm certainly rooting for the community to make graphical mods. Here's hoping they'll have the ability to do it.
They're happy with what they've got. So I have no faith in the graphics of D3. But, I can leave that to the community that's more than willing to implement graphical mods that will make it look more Diablo.
Brother Laz
01-07-2008, 20:36
think about this. what if the game is 80% done? what if 40% of that was the games art? it seems the game has been in production for what ? 5 years? if they change all the in game art it will push back the game a year or two more.
It's called a postprocessing filter and it takes a few days to implement.
Quit being so dumb, Bill. There's no assumption being made here. Here's how it goes.
- Blizzard shows us something of the game
- We think there might be room for improvement
- We tell them what we think would be neat
- They have the choice to ignore it or consider it
So what are you whining about? If it isn't final, ie, they are going to change things regardless of what anyone says, no harm is done. Please tell me what's wrong with letting them know what kind of things we would like for Diablo 3.
You're hugely overreacting about people giving their opinion.
I am not over-reacting, I am displaying an opinion the complete opposite of yours.
How are people not assuming? you've only seen the smallest portion of the game and you are assuming its going to ruin the whole thing, or be consistent through-out. Explain to me how this is not an assumption.
What I think is wrong with you guys trying to do this is the fact that if blizzard actually does give this thing attention that it is going to delay the game without necessarily making it that much better.
They clearly said they are going to establish the mood of the game with actions and gameplay, not environment, what has blizzard done with any of their games in the past that makes you think you need to tell them this is not ok?
seriously can anyone who signed this petition say they play diablo 2 because of the graphics? if you say yes, you are lieing. It is a change and its different but 95% of us play for the loot, and the gameplay and the action and the attachment we get with our chars which we will all still get with D3, hopefully sooner rather than later
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 21:04
I am not over-reacting, I am displaying an opinion the complete opposite of yours.
How are people not assuming? you've only seen the smallest portion of the game and you are assuming its going to ruin the whole thing, or be consistent through-out. Explain to me how this is not an assumption.
What I think is wrong with you guys trying to do this is the fact that if blizzard actually does give this thing attention that it is going to delay the game without necessarily making it that much better.
They clearly said they are going to establish the mood of the game with actions and gameplay, not environment, what has blizzard done with any of their games in the past that makes you think you need to tell them this is not ok?
seriously can anyone who signed this petition say they play diablo 2 because of the graphics? if you say yes, you are lieing. It is a change and its different but 95% of us play for the loot, and the gameplay and the action and the attachment we get with our chars which we will all still get with D3, hopefully sooner rather than later
"As an artist, game developer (not affiliated with Blizzard) and long-time fan of the Diablo series, I've found the new art direction to be undesirable in many regards and hope the following points best clarify why I'm complaining about an unfinished product atop my virtual soapbox:
* IP Ambiguity: Blizzard has rocketed to the top of the success ladder with its three main Intellectual Properties: Warcraft, Starcraft & Diablo. These three franchises can be categorized, in terms of genre as: High Fantasy, Sci-Fi/Fantasy & Dark/Gothic Fantasy, respectively. The categories help customers clearly identify the three IPs. This new art direction (seen in Diablo III's public announcement) blurs the lines between two of Blizzard's IPs. "Is that a Troll Witch Doctor I'm looking at or something from Diablo?" By doing this, the IPs become harder to discern and the end result is a watered down version attempting to accommodate both the demographics... akin to a jack-of-all-trades, master of nothing scenario.
* Fanbase Alienation: The Diablo series has always been in a dark and dreary setting that instills a foreboding sense of hopelessness and futility. This couldn't be any more reinforced by the ironic conclusion of the first game: the hero defeats the devil but willingly sacrifices his/herself to contain the unstoppable evil. The powers of these beings is something much bigger than any of us, the heroes or the mortal world. By making things cartoonish and less 'gritty' and somberly realistic, the oppressive dread is no longer felt.
* Artistic Discontinuity: In metaphoric art terms, Warcraft is a colourful oil painting: the textures contain palettes of vibrant hues and hard lines define soft shapes. Diablo, on the other hand, gives the impression of being more of a charcoal illustration: realistic and heavily influenced by black and muted hues. Magic is still colourful but doesn't over-power a scene with a conflagration of blues, green, reds and purples. Color, when used sparingly, can direct someone's eyes to an intended point of interest. When over-used, it makes the eyes tired and desensitized. On the opposite side of the that, under-use can also yield bad consequences. The point is, the world of Diablo isn't a colorful place and when vibrancy is introduced into a macabre setting, it feels more surreal than terrifying."
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 21:12
It's called a postprocessing filter and it takes a few days to implement.
How hard do you think it would be for the Diablo community to do something like that?
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 21:19
How hard do you think it would be for the Diablo community to do something like that?
What? Do you have any idea of what youre talking about?
How are we supposed to do such "hardcoded game feature" without having access to the game engine? I cant believe in some comments that ive been reading around...
And i will repeat:
"As an artist, game developer (not affiliated with Blizzard) and long-time fan of the Diablo series, I've found the new art direction to be undesirable in many regards and hope the following points best clarify why I'm complaining about an unfinished product atop my virtual soapbox:
* IP Ambiguity: Blizzard has rocketed to the top of the success ladder with its three main Intellectual Properties: Warcraft, Starcraft & Diablo. These three franchises can be categorized, in terms of genre as: High Fantasy, Sci-Fi/Fantasy & Dark/Gothic Fantasy, respectively. The categories help customers clearly identify the three IPs. This new art direction (seen in Diablo III's public announcement) blurs the lines between two of Blizzard's IPs. "Is that a Troll Witch Doctor I'm looking at or something from Diablo?" By doing this, the IPs become harder to discern and the end result is a watered down version attempting to accommodate both the demographics... akin to a jack-of-all-trades, master of nothing scenario.
* Fanbase Alienation: The Diablo series has always been in a dark and dreary setting that instills a foreboding sense of hopelessness and futility. This couldn't be any more reinforced by the ironic conclusion of the first game: the hero defeats the devil but willingly sacrifices his/herself to contain the unstoppable evil. The powers of these beings is something much bigger than any of us, the heroes or the mortal world. By making things cartoonish and less 'gritty' and somberly realistic, the oppressive dread is no longer felt.
* Artistic Discontinuity: In metaphoric art terms, Warcraft is a colourful oil painting: the textures contain palettes of vibrant hues and hard lines define soft shapes. Diablo, on the other hand, gives the impression of being more of a charcoal illustration: realistic and heavily influenced by black and muted hues. Magic is still colourful but doesn't over-power a scene with a conflagration of blues, green, reds and purples. Color, when used sparingly, can direct someone's eyes to an intended point of interest. When over-used, it makes the eyes tired and desensitized. On the opposite side of the that, under-use can also yield bad consequences. The point is, the world of Diablo isn't a colorful place and when vibrancy is introduced into a macabre setting, it feels more surreal than terrifying."
"As an artist, game developer (not affiliated with Blizzard) and long-time fan of the Diablo series, I've found the new art direction to be undesirable in many regards and hope the following points best clarify why I'm complaining about an unfinished product atop my virtual soapbox:
* IP Ambiguity: Blizzard has rocketed to the top of the success ladder with its three main Intellectual Properties: Warcraft, Starcraft & Diablo. These three franchises can be categorized, in terms of genre as: High Fantasy, Sci-Fi/Fantasy & Dark/Gothic Fantasy, respectively. The categories help customers clearly identify the three IPs. This new art direction (seen in Diablo III's public announcement) blurs the lines between two of Blizzard's IPs. "Is that a Troll Witch Doctor I'm looking at or something from Diablo?" By doing this, the IPs become harder to discern and the end result is a watered down version attempting to accommodate both the demographics... akin to a jack-of-all-trades, master of nothing scenario.
* Fanbase Alienation: The Diablo series has always been in a dark and dreary setting that instills a foreboding sense of hopelessness and futility. This couldn't be any more reinforced by the ironic conclusion of the first game: the hero defeats the devil but willingly sacrifices his/herself to contain the unstoppable evil. The powers of these beings is something much bigger than any of us, the heroes or the mortal world. By making things cartoonish and less 'gritty' and somberly realistic, the oppressive dread is no longer felt.
* Artistic Discontinuity: In metaphoric art terms, Warcraft is a colourful oil painting: the textures contain palettes of vibrant hues and hard lines define soft shapes. Diablo, on the other hand, gives the impression of being more of a charcoal illustration: realistic and heavily influenced by black and muted hues. Magic is still colourful but doesn't over-power a scene with a conflagration of blues, green, reds and purples. Color, when used sparingly, can direct someone's eyes to an intended point of interest. When over-used, it makes the eyes tired and desensitized. On the opposite side of the that, under-use can also yield bad consequences. The point is, the world of Diablo isn't a colorful place and when vibrancy is introduced into a macabre setting, it feels more surreal than terrifying."
So by them assuring you its going to be a dark, dreary, bleak word with the mood means nothing?
You say what blizzard is doing is ruining all their IP's by blending too much content from all of them into all of eachother....Can you give me one example of a blizzard game you have played that is ruined because of this? WoW was pretty much the first game to take ideas from a different IP (mainly Diablo) to create the skills of the game. since then, nothing has been released to make such claims against Blizzard.
It is funny that you post all of that content explaining your stance, yet there is no product to back up your claim. It is all speculation based on a 20 minute gameplay video even though blizzard has said it is a work in progress, and it is also going to be a gothic dark world that we all expect it to be.
There isnt a bad game in blizzards archives so please stop citing how they are ruining their games, and dis-alienating their fanbase because that just isnt true. 2,000 people when there are probably going to be over 4 million isnt alienating a fanbase
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 21:25
It's going to look like WoW or a darker, more polygonal, and moodier WoW.
Something we're just going to have to accept. It's artistic habit.
I'd love for them to steer clear of this pseudo-WoW with overt dark themes direction they're going, but I don't think it's going to happen.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 21:26
4150 persons, it keeps growing at a fast rate and i wont discuss anymore with you, you're obviously just another fanboy who blindly appraises anything that comes from Blizzard, they're a company, companies only see profit and those will be my final words in here, dont even bother to respond.
I am not blindly appraising any blizzard product. I am appraising all of the products i have actually played. And none of them have been bad. Not 1. So instead of saying "blizzard is going to ruin Diablo and Starcraft IP's, alienate all of their fans, ruin their name and their trademarks with the direction they are going" I am going to give them some more time to show me what they are creating before I start hardcore bashing my favorite gaming producing company which I feel like it is for pretty much everyone here (especially because you all care enough to voice your opinion (which isnt bad criticism)) but to give them no respect is mind boggling
kontankarite
01-07-2008, 21:31
4150 persons, it keeps growing at a fast rate and i wont discuss anymore with you, you're obviously just another fanboy who blindly appraises anything that comes from Blizzard, they're a company, companies only see profit and those will be my final words in here, dont even bother to respond.
No, I seriously agree with you, man. I'm just as annoyed about it as you are. But if I may have the liberty to be pessimistic and realize that they're NOT going to do it. They're HAPPY with the way it looks.
They're fan base is the fans of WoW. Simple as that. The WoW aesthetic is overtly Blizzard's official aesthetic. It's what they want.
Good luck to the petition, but seriously...
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 21:33
No, I seriously agree with you, man. I'm just as annoyed about it as you are. But if I may have the liberty to be pessimistic and realize that they're NOT going to do it. They're HAPPY with the way it looks.
They're fan base is the fans of WoW. Simple as that. The WoW aesthetic is overtly Blizzard's official aesthetic. It's what they want.
Good luck to the petition, but seriously...
Wasnt talking to you, just to Bill Cosby :)
If I can have one last thing to say about this let me urge you to do one thing:
Before submitting the petition, please wait until the next update on Diablo 3 is released.
I know that I am worried about the delay of the game (my personal biggest issue), but I think that as fans, you guys should wait until you can see one more content update to submit it. If you still dont like it, then by all means submit it then (your obviously going to anyway...). Because there IS a chance that the whole game isnt going to be like we all think it is after the gameplay video, just wait. It will give you time to get more signatures, and get a better feel of how D3 is going to shape up before you go making recommendations with X amount of signatures.
If this is laughed at, oh well, I just think its jumping the gun at this point in time to submit this without at least seeing more of the game (I.E. another class and town mainly...)
Best of luck with your wishes for the game, and heres hoping that if they heed your advice that the game is released in a timely manner still.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 21:50
4150 persons, it keeps growing at a fast rate and i wont discuss anymore with you, you're obviously just another fanboy who blindly appraises anything that comes from Blizzard, they're a company, companies only see profit and those will be my final words in here, dont even bother to respond.
100 people using curl+proxy rotation means nothing. Anything else you can say?
If I can have one last thing to say about this let me urge you to do one thing:
Before submitting the petition, please wait until the next update on Diablo 3 is released.
They aren't doing anything because a few people spam some useless petition. ;)
I am not blindly appraising any blizzard product. I am appraising all of the products i have actually played. And none of them have been bad. Not 1. So instead of saying "blizzard is going to ruin Diablo and Starcraft IP's, alienate all of their fans, ruin their name and their trademarks with the direction they are going" I am going to give them some more time to show me what they are creating before I start hardcore bashing my favorite gaming producing company which I feel like it is for pretty much everyone here (especially because you all care enough to voice your opinion (which isnt bad criticism)) but to give them no respect is mind boggling
wait wait wait... you're putting words in other people's mouths! If you read the petition, they do not say that Blizzard is ruining their name, trademarks of anything. I surely didn't say that at all, and if the OP said something that resembled that here, it was only because the heated debate may have led him to make more emotional remarks.
THE POINT IS: We're just trying to give Blizzard CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM. I wholeheartedly agree that criticism by itself is useless. But this is not the case, the OP and community did even give them examples of what we think would fit better. It's obvious that there'll be people that do not agree, and it's up to Blizzard to decide which approach is better, or if something in-between is the best. For me they could maintain most colors but detail more the characters, making them a lot less cartoony. The fact remains that no one has the right to try and shut off fans from giving constructive criticism. I urge you to comment and give your own ideas, instead of just trying to shut us off, which is just trolling.
Another thing I would like to remind you is the case of Hellgate:London. Most people that tried to criticize the game constructively at the alpha and beta stages where shut off by fanboys taking on the holy quest of "protecting" their product. The end result was a flop, and need not to be, as a lot of the greater problems where criticized way earlier. Now, I agree with anyone who says that a Blizzard product won't ever BAD, but it surely can become just GOOD instead of GREAT. For me this was the case of Warcraft III. It was a good game(I bought it and the expansion), but not great in the manner we're used to from Blizzard. The cartoony graphics were a big turnoff for me. :\
toppknott
01-07-2008, 21:54
I think the problem is the trend toward adding "bloom" to games nowadays. I don't care for it, I never have. A couple of users started vehemently insisting, in a forum thread for the game Requiem: Bloodymare that adding bloom would be a good idea, and they were opposed by a large base of players who thought it would take away from the game's dark, brooding atmosphere.
For anyone familiar with the Median 2008 Diablo 2 mod, there are certainly huge amounts of different light sources going on, making the scenery "colorful", but the gameplay of the mod is very challenging and dangerous. I don't think the few visual similarities that people are drawing between D3 and WoW is any indication of the final game experience, and the argument isn't yet strong enough for me to back with a signature.
wait wait wait... you're putting words in other people's mouths! If you read the petition, they do not say that Blizzard is ruining their name, trademarks of anything. I surely didn't say that at all, and if the OP said something that resembled that here, it was only because the heated debate may have led him to make more emotional remarks.
Hey Sectoid. Maybe if you read my whole post, you would have read the quoted material i was directing that post at. The person claimed all of the things I mentioned. Good job though
If I can have one last thing to say about this let me urge you to do one thing:
Before submitting the petition, please wait until the next update on Diablo 3 is released.
I know that I am worried about the delay of the game (my personal biggest issue), but I think that as fans, you guys should wait until you can see one more content update to submit it. If you still dont like it, then by all means submit it then (your obviously going to anyway...). Because there IS a chance that the whole game isnt going to be like we all think it is after the gameplay video, just wait. It will give you time to get more signatures, and get a better feel of how D3 is going to shape up before you go making recommendations with X amount of signatures.
If this is laughed at, oh well, I just think its jumping the gun at this point in time to submit this without at least seeing more of the game (I.E. another class and town mainly...)
Best of luck with your wishes for the game, and heres hoping that if they heed your advice that the game is released in a timely manner still.
I wasn't expecting that. Thank you! :thumbup:
And I agree with you about waiting a bit more. The thousands of subjects about it already brought the needed attention and we could surely see another dungeon or open area. The only problem is that the cartoonish feel is independent of that.
100 people using curl+proxy rotation means nothing. Anything else you can say... I mean... whine?
They aren't doing anything because a few nerds spam some useless petition. ;)
:funnyabove:
We should start calling trolls like you Witch Doctors. Would fit out D setting :evil:
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 22:01
100 people using curl+proxy rotation means nothing. Anything else you can say... I mean... whine?
Curious to say that, let me ask you, the hundreds of pages of hundreds of fans criticizing the game in a lot of forums (only in lesser forums , where the petition started, it was 250 pages just about this matter) are made with curl+proxy rotation? Are proxys that intelligent? Can they write opinions and use arguments?
That's so childish and immature, accept that there's people with different opinion than yours and in this case theres a significant number of them.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 22:05
Curious to say that, let me ask you, the hundreds of pages of hundreds of fans criticizing the game in a lot of forums (only in diablofans.com , where the petition started, it was 250 pages just about this matter) are made with curl+proxy rotation? Are proxys that intelligent? Can they write opinions and use arguments?
That's so childish and immature, accept that there's people with different opinion than yours and in this case theres a significant number of them.
You got it right. Hundreds. Where are your thousands? BTW, do you even know what I was talking about?
We should start calling trolls like you Witch Doctors. Would fit out D setting :evil:
If someone is trolling you report the post. If you don't report the post but start a flame war, YOU are also trolling.
Both of you need to improve your posting. Now.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 22:08
You got it right. Hundreds. Where are your thousands? BTW, do you even know what I was talking about?
......................
Hey Sectoid. Maybe if you read my whole post, you would have read the quoted material i was directing that post at. The person claimed all of the things I mentioned. Good job though
Sorry, I did read all your post, my bad that I didn't phrase mine better. I used my opinion together with the OP's but I knew you were referring only to him. Another correction that should be made is that when I talked about urging "you" to show opinions, I meant the plural you, not you specifically. Re-reading my post now I think it could be wrongly interpreted. Only the first paragraph is directed at you.
Sorry, I did read all your post, my bad that I didn't phrase mine better. I used my opinion together with the OP's but I knew you were referring only to him. Another correction that should be made is that when I talked about urging "you" to show opinions, I meant the plural you, not you specifically. Re-reading my post now I think it could be wrongly interpreted. Only the first paragraph is directed at you.
I know it is and your first paragraph is still wrong. I am not putting words in anyone's mouth considering i quoted the persons words and then commented on those exact words. It had nothing to do with you or your thoughts, it had to do with the person saying blizzard is ruining their IP's. So again, go re-read the quoted material or the persons post I quoted to know what I was talking about.
I voted on the petition because when I first saw the new look for D3 the first thing I thought was this looks alot more like WoW and alot less like D1 or D2.
tetracycloide
01-07-2008, 22:19
it's really quite funny there are so many people saying that considering the first thing i thought was 'this looks nothing like the crazy cartoon characatures of WoW.'
just because the details are not hyper-realistic doesn't mean it's automatically a cartoon. anyone that's been exposed to a variety of 2D mediums and styles can atest to the fact that the fact that WoW and D3 don't look the same simply because they're both not hyper-realistic.
Bill, you're right and again the error was mine for not phrasing myself better. Sorry for that, english is not my primary language.
What I meant to say is that what you said is not the essence of the petition, or what's in the minds of the majority of people who signed it. You may then claim that this was not what you said and that you were referring only to the OP, but my point is that his personal opinion(if it indeed is that as you portray, which I disagree and think its only heated debate) is not the same as is being reported on the petition.
About the complaint from the moderator about me, sorry for that and you're right. I do not participate in forums for a lot of years now, and only D3 got me going again. I didn't even think of a "report" function, since that didn't exist in "my time"(pre-1999) :P
I shall ignore and report bad posts from now on.
My first thoughts when i saw it: "holy crapola thank god Diablo 3 is coming!" haha
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 22:54
You got it right. Hundreds. Where are your thousands? BTW, do you even know what I was talking about?
80% of the signatures have attached comments, long comments with suggestions and feedback, proxies or whatever that is dont make comments like those so get your facts straight before saying such crap.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 23:08
80% of the signatures have attached comments, long comments with suggestions and feedback, proxies or whatever that is dont make comments like those so get your facts straight before saying such crap.
And I have only your word for it? Too bad the sigs are private. Let me view the petition and we might have a deal.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 23:11
And I have only your word for it? Too bad the sigs are private. Let me view the petition and we might have a deal.
I would paste the whole petition directly to here but i dont want to feed the internet bots with a fresh list of 5220 emails, yes, it's my word, im telling you 80% of the signatures have comments, you believe it or not, I cant force you to believe and im not willing to do it.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 23:14
I would paste the whole petition directly to here but i dont want to feed the internet bots with a fresh list of 5220 emails, yes, it's my word, im telling you 80% of the signatures have comments, you believe it or not, I cant force you to believe and im not willing to do it.
Then this is staged and people use tools to strengthen their argument. But it is nice to see to what length people go.
Thanks for playing. This is why Blizzard won't listen to you.
Dorfoumous
01-07-2008, 23:16
Wow...just wow.
Its people that sign this petition, that make devs either A) not make the game or B) don't listen to any of us anymore.
Also, look at the Diablo 2 beta screen shots, they are horrible. You guys are just insane. I don't understand. Why you are doing this.
You want it to be "dark" have you guys played diablo 2 lod? To me the graphics are horrid, and not dark at all.
But whatever, yay for never having diablo 3. Goodjob.
ultramegazord
01-07-2008, 23:17
Not listening to their own fans is not the right path to follow and im sure they already noted our concern about the game.
I dont care about your opinion too, it's not staged and the only ones who will see the whole list of this petition is Blizzard, i really dont care if you think it's staged or not.
Sein Schatten
01-07-2008, 23:19
Not listening to their own fans is not the right path to follow and im sure they already noted our concern about the game.
I dont care about your opinion too, it's not staged and the only ones who will see the whole list of this petition is Blizzard, i really dont care if you think it's staged or not.
And I don't care either. You can surely show Blizzard the few hundred valid signatures but the craze you are starting is just hot air. Which is sad, really, for the people who truly feel D3 needs to change and voice their legit opinions. :(
ultramegazord
02-07-2008, 00:00
Diablo Fans Upset About Diablo 3
See what we mean about going insane because of all the wait for Blizzard's upcoming PC/Mac RPG Diablo 3 (http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/686664/Diablo_III_Information_from_Blizzards_Worldwide_In vitational.html)? Over 4,000 Diablo fans (and counting) have signed an online petition, stating that the current art direction of the game should be changed. And after carefully reading the petition, hardcore Diablo fans want their Diablo 3 done right.
Apparently, Diablo fans couldn't stand the cartoonish, vividly colored, World of Warcraft-like art direction in Diablo 3. They demand a darker, grittier and more gothic approach. Basically, Diablo fans don't want to see any gnomes walking around while they feverishly impale countless enemies.
So if you're one of the Diablo fans itching to get your point across, go ahead and sign the petition below. But just don't be surprised to see rainbows in the final game...maybe even ponies.
PetitionOnline: Renewed Artistic Direction For Diablo 3 (http://www.petitiononline.com/d3art/petition.html)http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/post/686671/Diablo_Fans_Upset_About_Diablo_3.html
Which is sad, really, for the people who truly feel D3 needs to change and voice their legit opinions. :(
You can justify this arrogance, I hope?
Just for a laugh, and not because I think this amount of change is likely, compare GuildWars prealpha/alpha screens to post release.
http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2003/pc/guildwars/0421/g_screen002.jpg
http://guildwars.incgamers.com/gallery/data/500/gw495.jpg
I had way better screenies but my I had them stored on my old external, which crashed fatally :(
I'm going to point out I didn't consider d2 very dark in an atmospheric sense, except for act 3. That doesn't mean I don't love the idea of a darker than ever D3, if dark means it ends up looking like the 'after' I linked earlier.
liquidzsnake
02-07-2008, 00:10
I hope the game is filled with rainbows now. I hope the Barbarian gets a skill called "THE RAINBOW PARADE SPECTACULAR", and I hope in the end of the game it turns out that the hordes of hell beasts were doing all this attacking because they were sad that there were no rainbows in their world.
Anyone who has complaints about rainbows, or holy hell... Color... in the diablo world needs to get out of their hole, take a look outside, and realize how much color there is in the real world. Stop denying refraction!
And complaints about "realism in the art direction"? You've spent your last 15 years in your mothers basement playing a series of games that pits you against thousands of hell beasts in a fictional world... nothing more has to be said.
kontankarite
02-07-2008, 00:23
There wouldn't be this kind of reaction to the artistic direction if it didn't have a grain of truth to it.
Those who nay say it, ask yourself. Is it really so possible that over 4000 people actually see the art direction for what it is? WoW behind a diablo mask?
If it were Diablo-esque in art in all truthfulness, then why would there be such a reaction like this?
Realism is a poor choice of words. That question should be, do the graphics present an obstacle to your ability to suspend your disbelief, hence be less immersed in the gameplay. Personally I have no issue with rainbows but more point lighting and less ambient lighting for me does mean a stronger atmosphere making for a more engaging experience.
I'll change that 2nd pic to a link unless someone tells me I can resize it to a preferable resolution without having to bother altering it.
If it were Diablo-esque in art in all truthfulness, then why would there be such a reaction like this?
'Such' a reaction? Hard to guage. How many people thought they demo'd graphics were perfect for D3? We need a 'don't change it' petition for comparison, tho the people who feel that way would probably be less vocal about it... still not conclusive by any means.
I think the petition is a bunch of people who have crawled out of their holes after hearing the game is announced and decided to whine.
I bet 90% of the petitioners dont even play D2 anymore, and no one should have a right to change the release date or content of D3.
You have a right to complain and petition, but I pray blizzard ignores all of you
kontankarite
02-07-2008, 00:41
No, it's not. But you're right about the immersion of it.
There is a reaction to it because of what you stated. Meaningless green ambient lighting and even purple and blue lighting for no apparent reason at all does not help me suspend my disbelief.
Nostavar
02-07-2008, 00:43
You fail Bill. Stating an opinion isn't whining. Whining is what you're doing, making hot-headed *****y replies in every thread. HOW DARE YOU HAVE AN OPINION? OMFG BLIZZARD IS PERFECT!!! DIE!
No one should have the right to change the release date or content? Well no one has that power except for Blizzard, so that's a moot point. If Blizzard decides to do it then who are you to complain, right? You aren't allowed to disagree with anything they do anyway.
I just don't get you. Why do you really care that people dislike a certain part of what has been shown so far?
kontankarite
02-07-2008, 00:50
I think the petition is a bunch of people who have crawled out of their holes after hearing the game is announced and decided to whine.
I bet 90% of the petitioners dont even play D2 anymore, and no one should have a right to change the release date or content of D3.
You have a right to complain and petition, but I pray blizzard ignores all of you
Dude, if you like random and pointless ambient colors and a happy colorscheme, there is a game that supports it. It's called WoW.
Be glad there's a release. Be EXTRA glad that there's people demanding excellence.
It's not the same people making D3. This is a totally different team. This isn't Blizzard North making this game. Blizzard has some challenging shoes to fill.
ultramegazord
02-07-2008, 00:59
I think the petition is a bunch of people who have crawled out of their holes after hearing the game is announced and decided to whine.
I bet 90% of the petitioners dont even play D2 anymore, and no one should have a right to change the release date or content of D3.
You have a right to complain and petition, but I pray blizzard ignores all of you
People who dont care about Diablo just dont waste so much energy making this, we're doing this because we love diablo, not because we hate it.
Sequitur
02-07-2008, 01:53
Original post deleted
New, Happy post:
I think phool's post made the point that I wanted to, perfectly.
I respect your right to let Blizzard know what you guys want...
But, seriously. Can we at least give them a chance to get something besides the launch demo out for our criticism. After all, it's only there so we can all get out rocks off.
Just...relax a little...be patient..
Without light darkness would be meaningless.
Could it be that this first chapter sequence in New Tristram Cathedral tombs are designed to be a contrast to further chapters? I found it very weird to be running around in Lut Gholein in a brilliantly bright desert for hours - but when I entered the seven tombs I realized that it served as a purpose. A stark contrast to the darkness below the desert. The effect was noticeable, and would be lost in a game where you walk in perpetual gloom and darkness.
Like many has said, this petition is most likely pointless based on the fact that we've only seen a fraction of the content that awaits us in the finished game. And imagine walking through the catacombs of the cathedral - and entering a large room that suddenly is draped in complete darkness! Now that is the effect a clever storyteller would love to have for a game like Diablo.
Sequitur
02-07-2008, 02:40
^^ GG Corkee
Also a point I should have made.
Many people talk about the game needing to live up to the predecessors 'scariness'. Wouldn't this work better if the adventure started out in a relatively serene setting, slowing carving it's way down into a dank, eerie, freaky setting full of blood, torn bodies, pigeons, and ending in a final encounter/act that we can barely start because our heart rates are up so high, and we've gone cross-eyed.
Heck yeah, that's what I want to see.
stillman
02-07-2008, 02:54
I remember long ago I could just sleep in the backseat of the family car with no seatbelt (none of the seatbelts even worked) while my father drove drunk up front. Well now, you just can't get away with that sort of thing. There has to be childboosters and the cops don't look the other way for a DUI. A similar situation: Diablo 1 compared to now. When they made Diablo 1 they had NO IDEA how successful it would become. In those days, they did whatever they thought would be cool. In Diablo1, you could see the snow witchs' nipples. Lots of them. It was practically pornographic.
Well those good old days are over. Blizzard is much bigger now and they can't just spray blood around like they used to. Isn't it true that many of you want the grit that Diablo 1 had? Don't you know this is impossible? They can never go back to those days. It's over. There is too much for them to loose.
I think some of you are traped in the Diablo 1 days and you will forever expect D3 to deliver a D1 atmosphere. They're probably not ALLOWED to. I don't think darker colors and such are going to be enough for you.
Basically, I'm pretty thrilled about the fact that the zombies catch fire when you hit them with fire damage. Then, they fall dead to the ground and stay on fire for a while. Do you know what this means? Maybe arrows will actually stick into the bodies! There were zombies getting hacked to pieces. These are the important things. I don't think darker lighting is that big of an issue.
Thx, and all these gothic people seem to overlook the two fatalities on the miniboss at the end. The female witch doc is basicly squeezed to death, and the male barbarian is torn asunder by the living siege engine's teeths! I just pray that level of player characeter gore survives through the rating and into the final product.
I think we will be scared and shrouded in despair and darkness. To think anything else is to loose faith in Blizzards ability to grasp the essence of what they're doing and who they're doing it for...
Sequitur
02-07-2008, 03:14
Think though, if that's what we're seeing in the launch demo, imagine the insane things that will take place in the finished product.
*shudders*
Wicked awesome... XD
My reasoning for hating on this garbage is that I want to play Diablo 3 when blizzard thinks it is done which is going to be sooner than you clowns think it is complete.
I want Diablo 3 the way Blizzard is going to make it. I dont want it they way YOU people want it because like ive said one million times you have no idea how the final product is going to turn out and making a petition is only stirring up a pot that doesnt need to be stirred by clowns.
Oh and i dont think it takes a lot of energy to follow a link and click on something that says sign. Talk about 30 seconds of work max. 1 min if you add a comment you think someone cares to read. Yeah I'll be the crazed britanny fan. Leave Blizzard alone until you can grasp how this game is going to turn out because as of right now, no one on these forums knows how its going to turn out. Not 1.
If you are all so passionate and outgoing vocal people, isnt there dieseases you should be walking for as opposed to complaining about video game graphics?
Sequitur
02-07-2008, 03:24
This from another thread. Thanks to sighh for using some initiative! *no sweat here*
Seeing these, I'm not worried at all concerning Diablo III. Blizzard games are known for looking nothing like the final product in the very early stages.
http://diablo2.judgehype.com/screenshots/historiqued2/screenshots/acte1_avril99/Acte1409.jpg
http://diablo2.judgehype.com/screenshots/historiqued2/screenshots/acte1_avril99/Acte1410.jpg
http://diablo2.judgehype.com/screenshots/historiqued2/screenshots/acte3_mai99/Acte3502.JPG
ragnarbloodaxe
02-07-2008, 05:22
I bet a Stone of Jordan next April Fool's Blizzard is going to joke about this upbringing.
I'll Bump this thread in 10 months....
http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?p=12210086#post12210086
here is an example of how they changed sc2 after feed back. Hopefully they do the same with diablo III
http://forums.gametrailers.com/showthread.php?p=12210086#post12210086
here is an example of how they changed sc2 after feed back. Hopefully they do the same with diablo III
The changes had nothing to do with cartoonish styles or vibrant colors. It had to do with micro management and defined borders on each units and a collision system that prevents overlap of mentioned units for selection.
You want a dated game back with muddy colors that was just as much stylized that way because there was no code or hardware to support stuff like volumetric lightning and true shadows. I say give me a brilliant story portraited with a kickass game engine that displays it the way the storytellers and gamedesigners want it.
But the bottomline of it all is the fact that you've seen a fraction of the finished product, and yet you(the petitioners) have the audacity to tell Blizzard to go back to the drawing board and present the game in a packaging that caters to your conservative and sentimental value of how the game should look like with no gameplay or functional reasoning whatsoever.
As a summary I'm just thankful that Diablo2 had several million players - and not the thousands who signed that petition.
thanks for putting the words in my mouth. You're completely right, I want a game that uses dated inferior technology, and muddy colors. I forgot there isn't a giant spectrum between really incredibly dark and gritty, and very bright and cartoony.
I couldn't possibly want a less cartoony version, but not a ridiculously dark version. If you're going to go to extremes then you might as well just say all the complainers want a pitch black dark screen all the time, because that's how ridiculous you come across.
Hello, my friends. I do not have time for now to stay a while, listen and talk, but I passed by a post that explains our problem with the art style almost in perfection.
It comes from the user Daedalus_DM, at the middle of this page:
http://www.battle.net/forums/thread.aspx?FN=d3-general&T=223&P=30
Please, read it, it's very good, well thought and well written.
I'll quote it here:
Greetings.
Firstly, I am overjoyed that Blizzard has finally announced Diablo III after all these years. It stands as my second favourite series in the gaming universe (after an unsung one that would be off-topic on these forums). Upon seeing the advertisements and getting a general dark feeling from the site, its music, sound, and that rather alluring Tristram concept art, I was excited for about two days straight -- and I'm not excited by video games any longer, I'll add. I'm usually one to avoid spoilers like a plague, but eventually I couldn't resist taking a peek at the screenshots and I was utterly disgruntled. I thought that perhaps, through motion, the images would take on a more agreeable tone with the Diablo universe, but alas, all it did was reinforce my earlier feelings. This has all lead to a single conclusion.
I've read it said that Blizzard hopes to bring across 'darkness as an emotion' or something to this effect, however, let me say at this point that the only emotion Diablo III's appearance elicits from me is burning rage. Yes, I am one of those who've dug up their CD keys to be able to bìtch on this forum.
This argument's days old already, but I feel it necessary that I voice my opinion and get this off my chest so I can move on.
I was one of those privileged enough to play Diablo at a young age and from my very first entry to the monastery I was hooked. With its total immersion, unnerving sound and, let's face it, downright terrifying music, at that age it took genuine bravery to press into the deeper levels and destroy the dark lord. Playing the game in the dark was an exhilirating experience which has yet to be matched by any RPG to date.
Diablo II, while forfeiting a degree of the genuine terror in Diablo, makes up for it with diversity and gameplay. The areas are less random, perhaps, but it retains, at times, a glimpse of that Diablo 1 feeling. Consider, for a moment, the sincere emotion which eminates from the act 1 exterior areas, or the jungles of act 3. It is not on blind luck that Diablo II happens to be played by thousands to this day.
I shall begin my discussion with saying that at its present point Diablo III fails completely on all visual levels. It is an alpha build, yes, but this is why it's the best point to steer Blizzard a little in the correct direction, so as to limit the amount that needs to be redone. The action in Diablo III looks spot on, but with its current visuals I'd say the product warrants about one or two playthroughs at most. I fully understand that it's been 20 years since evil has walked the land or what have you, but my general concern centres around the overall smoothness, not just the brightness. Undoubtedly the game will lead to darker areas, but I doubt the graphics will suddenly turn sharp and use better quality textures midway.
Graphics do not make a game. It is first the gameplay, followed by the experience as a whole, which makes a game memorable, or, indeed, an outstanding piece of work and graphics lend themselves to a game's experience. It would be a sordid error in judgement to keep Diablo III's appearance exactly as it is.
My first point shall be the most critical; this being the issue of depth cuing and line of sight. Let us first consider Diablo 1. Gentlemen here who've actually experienced this -- would this not be one of the most convincing attributes to make the Diablo experience so memorable? Honestly, what is greater in Diablo than to chase a retreating fallen, or perhaps devil-kin into the dark, only to suddenly be swarmed by a horde of them? How about the experience related to hearing the groans of zombies before they limp towards you? How about using a clear passage as a path of retreat, only to learn that one is completely trapped and has to heroically fight their way out through a vicious squad of the flesh clan?
Consider now, Diablo II. The effect was somewhat limited once Lord of Destruction gave us 800x600, but light radius is still a very valid concern in Diablo II. Wandering through catacombs could lead to a sudden zombie uprising. A journey through the Arachnid Lair may invite more attention than a character was previously aware of and so it goes. In fact, light radius was even an important strategic element for some of the ranged characters who existed.
Now many other titles employ sight radius. Baldur's Gate II and Neverwinter Nights do so, but these frequently do not present a strategic or immersive element as they do in the Diablo universe. Why do away with an element which makes the Diablo universe so unique and memorable?
Colour -- the argument which continues to revolve around the internet, is probably the one causing the most concern. Allow me to say that colour was always prominent in Diablo. Those who think it was not were probably so caught up in the emotion of the events that they fail to recall it.
Now for the topic which continues to burn. That of Diablo being influenced by World of WarCraft and what have you. God help me, but when I saw the interior segments of Diablo III, with their meaningless objects, blurred, smooth, unrealistic surfaces, I saw an interior WarCraft III usermap. Why is this being tolerated? Why are people allowing a franchise to be infected by visual elements from another? Have you forgotten that the core essence of Diablo is horror? Since when is Blizzard Entertainment about conformity? I always thought it to be the company whose games set the bar for others, not the inverse.
I will offer a handful of visual aids to prove my point. If you would but bear with me for a moment. Please note that these shots from Diablo 1 and Diablo II are not altered in any fashion. These are the default graphic (i.e. brightness) settings for the titles.
http://i26.tinypic.com/213mb74.jpg
Note the colours. See the sharp, green stones? The cold, nearly purple carving? Critically, notice the light radius. See how the torch light is fickle in the shadowed realm of Diablo. Look at how excellently the fallen under the archway blends with his surroundings.
http://i29.tinypic.com/fx3tq8.jpg
Observe the use of contrast and sharpness on the sorceror. Note that the carvers and devil-kin attacking me are colourful, but not flamboyant. Note how well the blood on the right blends with the surroundings. Not to mention to the complete shadow of the corners.
http://i26.tinypic.com/ix5rm0.jpg
http://i32.tinypic.com/farkvq.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2m7zrm0.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/34gr913.jpg
http://i26.tinypic.com/15xn3eu.jpg
http://i28.tinypic.com/idvhxs.jpg
http://i29.tinypic.com/2ik4d39.jpg
Some more just to remind exactly how Diablo 1 looked and felt. Note the realistic armour designs of the characters, the brilliant use of strong, but not overbearing colours, the natural ebb and flow of light. See how even the Tristram design evokes a feeling of sorrow and desperation purely by colour? This is magnificient art.
Let's briefly consider Diablo II. I deliberately took some of the more contraversial locations into account.
http://i32.tinypic.com/2mwtrnr.jpg
See here the brilliant colour usage in the GUI. Note the armour of the sorceress, bulky, but not contorted. Note the complete blending of everything into a work of art. See the humility of the torches? A gentle nod to Diablo 1, and it shows.
http://i29.tinypic.com/25012ti.jpg
Wilderness of Diablo II, Act One. This is sometime between night and day. Note the line of sight, exterior area without bombarding us with brightness. See the hint of sorrow in the entire setting? It's not a coincidence. This is art.
http://i28.tinypic.com/2uynbcm.jpg
Line of sight and shadows effectively emulating the appearance of Diablo 1.
http://i26.tinypic.com/2mms7de.jpg
The much-argued-about deserts of Khanduras. Note the sharp stones in the walls and floor. Again, this is evening, but even this, during the day, evokes emotion. It feels blasted and god-forsaken. It's a relief to get out of the desert and with good reason. Note the detail on the cactii.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2rzcav7.jpg
Another "bright exterior area" in Diablo II. Note, as in the previous shot, the effective line of sight with regards to the door frame. This still gives stark insight into the mindset of Kurast.
http://i30.tinypic.com/2ih2yix.jpg
Finally, the frozen wastes added in Diablo II's expansion. Note the exhausting brightness of the flames as opposed to the terrain. I personally consider the expansion's exterior areas a failure to the Diablo universe, but by offering 800x600, I think everybody allowed it a bit of play.
Now, please direct your attention to here:
http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/media/screenshots.xml#8
Now, in total honesty, try and forget for a moment that Diablo III was announced and that this is Diablo III. Assume you saw these screenshots with no indication that they belonged to Diablo III. Do you see an entry into the Diablo universe? Do you? Do you see the frantic conflicts in the dark that Diablo offers? Do you see demons on the edge of reason, hovering just out of sight?
I see nothing Diablo in these screenshots. I see WarCraft III, World of WarCraft, Titan Quest, Dungeon Siege 2 and even Neverwinter Nights here, but not Diablo.
The question begs raising; why import the puppet style of inventory that every other modern title uses? Why employ graphics that look like they come from the early 2000's? Why are there elements of warmth in the Diablo franchise? This is Diablo, for God's sake! It's a legendary horror series with medieval undertones, not some family-friendly kiddie picnic.
As a point of interest, I'd like to point out how the magic spells in Diablo and Diablo II were bright and colourful. These give the feeling that the arcane really had meaning in the world and you felt truly powerful wielding these abilities that bring the light of justice to the corrupt world of Diablo. If in Diablo III all the spells are equally bright to your sunlit and green painted dungeons, where's that feeling of majesty in wielding magic? Coincidentally, this point is quite well addressed by the shot I'm about to address.
You've seen the shots. I'll present them again.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/6065/howitshouldlooklikevx5.jpg
http://img114.imageshack.us/img114/3457/diablo31sharprj6.jpg
As presented, these appear to be closer in visual style to what Diablo III deserves. That modified shot of the barbarian on the bridge is absolutely stunning and I would take two copies of it. That looks like something I want to play right now. It really excites me, while the former looks like something I'd consider playing once or twice and possibly use alternative means to acquire.
In closing, I have no doubt that Diablo III will be an excellent game with regards to its music, sound and gameplay, but I could really use some clarification. Why is Blizzard selling out the product that made a genre? Why is it targeting a different age demographic? Why are we settling for, to put it lightly, mediocrity of appearance when this game could be absolutely incredible? Why's it making a game that looks like it belongs in the bargain bin, rather than one that could, quite easily, be the RPG title of the decade? If some of us need to buy new PCs or graphics cards to enjoy the best gaming experience of the past few years, so be it.
It matters not if it takes another seven years to create and doesn't appeal to the widest possible audience. This is about the artistic integrity of the series. This is about horror, satanism, grittyness and terror. This is medieval, not fantasy.
This is Diablo.
Vertigo X
04-07-2008, 06:34
Erm, no offense but that guy seems to take himself and the 'mood' way too seriously. Very much like an art critic having qualms about some thing 'claiming' to be Impressionist in style.
Otherwise, he has some good points that I agree with.
johntorrio
04-07-2008, 09:41
a lot (if not all) of the altered screen shots look so bland. My eyes enjoy color and the use of contrast but not a gray, dull wash over of what D3 has. I could care less about how closely the colors resemble that of D1 and D2. In fact when I did the beta testing for D2 I hated the color pallet because it felt drastically different from the first game. After playing the game for a while I adjusted to it and lost the thought of comparing it to D1.
Blizzard has a wide variety of new tools to play with and to think their going to reduce themselves to sticking with the look of a game that came out 8 years ago is a waste of time. If the colors are that much of an issue to overshadow the rest of what the game has to offer then by all means do not buy the game. I would much rather play without the bickering of what is being discussed on the forum so I can actually enjoy it.
You want your monotone pallet? stick to D1. You'll be around like minded people.
a lot (if not all) of the altered screen shots look so bland. My eyes enjoy color and the use of contrast but not a gray, dull wash over of what D3 has. I could care less about how closely the colors resemble that of D1 and D2. In fact when I did the beta testing for D2 I hated the color pallet because it felt drastically different from the first game. After playing the game for a while I adjusted to it and lost the thought of comparing it to D1.
This is something I want to point out again. In a single screenshot, more bland pictures might look fine, but if we took the color out of everything, it will all look the same, and the more homogonized the colors are the more bland it will be and the faster it will get old. See HGL for example.
Pitboss_2000
04-07-2008, 10:39
Erm, no offense but that guy seems to take himself and the 'mood' way too seriously. Very much like an art critic having qualms about some thing 'claiming' to be Impressionist in style.
I agree. "It looks blasted and god-forsaken, blabla". Tell that the foul crows and their nest, the sandleapers and the jolly dung beetles that populate that desert.
Frank_the_tank
04-07-2008, 16:55
Some people just dont seem to realise that it's not either all color or all black and grey. Just because we - the current "mood sceptics" - don't buy the art directors way of expressing mood with emotion or whatever, doesn't mean we want it all colorless. There is a large zone to play with between what is now and what is too much of a dramatic change. Personally I would set for some colder colors and less green saturation. Other than that it looks sweet.
stillman
05-07-2008, 04:15
Maybe Blizzard is playing us all for fools. Maybe they show the rainbow, sunshine and lollipops so we get traumatized when the legions from hell take over the game later in the story. Maybe they want to show how beautiful the world is before it gets ripped to pieces be demons.
Look, you can't always get what you want. Diablo 1 is ancient; I hope they make d3 NOTHING AT ALL like Diablo 1, artwise. Why would they use such an old style? It's like saying, "Comedy shows should all be in black and white because The 3 Stooges was in black and white and they were so great."
Sectoid, the critic you quoted said he would consider not paying for the game, which makes him sound unreasonable. He goes on like he runs the company and he decides what the direction of d3 should be.
Even Diablo 2 is pretty old. We can't expect them to implement all this old artwork and style into a state of the art 3d game.
We see Tyreal portrayed on the Blizzard website and see him in the teaser video chucking his sword at the worldstone. What if they want to incoperate angels in all their blissful glowing radience into the artwork of the whole game. What is wrong with that? Why does it have to be Diablo 2 + 1, where they announce: here you go guys, more darkness and dread, just like before...
Lord_Jaroh
05-07-2008, 05:49
Maybe Blizzard is playing us all for fools. Maybe they show the rainbow, sunshine and lollipops so we get traumatized when the legions from hell take over the game later in the story. Maybe they want to show how beautiful the world is before it gets ripped to pieces be demons.
Except the "artistic style" also takes away from that feeling. The unrealistic looking characters stand in stark contrast to the realistic ones in 2 and 1. The more "cartoon-ish" designs of the backgrounds and characters leave a lot to be desired in the Diablo universe, dark or bright.
Look, you can't always get what you want. Diablo 1 is ancient; I hope they make d3 NOTHING AT ALL like Diablo 1, artwise. Why would they use such an old style? It's like saying, "Comedy shows should all be in black and white because The 3 Stooges was in black and white and they were so great."
I hope to god they studied Diablo 1 and decide to bring back that feeling of "stepping around that corner into the shadows could mean my character's death". Or the claustraphobic, easily trapped by mobs of enemies feeling you could get when you were suddenly swarmed. Or the darkness that seems to hunger for your soul as you attempt to bring a small amount of light into the universe. That is what Diablo is about, with a heaping of random items thrown on top for replayability.
We're not saying to use the pixellated graphics, but we are saying that the more realistic, gritty, un-overemphasized look of things and people make the game that much more engrossing. Modernize them into 3D, no doubt, but not by making it unrealistic because that's all you seem to know. Hire some new artists that can actually portray that.
Sectoid, the critic you quoted said he would consider not paying for the game, which makes him sound unreasonable. He goes on like he runs the company and he decides what the direction of d3 should be.
Are you in the habit of paying money to see White Chicks, Little Man, Epic Movie, Meet the Spartans etc. just because they are Hollywood movies and we should support Hollywood? Why would you support something that you do not like? Why would I buy any game if I don't like it? How is that unreasonable? Or did you go out and purchase Barbie's big Adventures because it's a game?
Even Diablo 2 is pretty old. We can't expect them to implement all this old artwork and style into a state of the art 3d game.
Why not? When I play Dragon Warrior VIII it feels like the artwork of the older games brought to life in a stunning 3D environment. When I play R-Type Final, it still feels like the original R-Type, with the same old ship design and everything as the original. How about Ninja Gaiden? Or Gauntlet Dark Legacy? All of these invoked the same feeling as the originals with similar style in game. The upcoming Golden Axe looks like it could be interesting as well. What makes Diablo so unable to follow it's predecessor's footsteps? Is it that they don't have any qualified artists beyond Warcraft's that are to enamoured with that style?
We see Tyreal portrayed on the Blizzard website and see him in the teaser video chucking his sword at the worldstone.
Yes, and? I also saw the Tyreal "pet" in WoW that I expect might look an aweful lot like what we'd see in the current Diablo III. Aw, how cute...
What if they want to incoperate angels in all their blissful glowing radience into the artwork of the whole game. What is wrong with that?
What, you mean like how angels already appeared in their blinding radiance in Diablo II? There is nothing wrong with that at all. How come the trailer's style doesn't look more like the game?
Why does it have to be Diablo 2 + 1, where they announce: here you go guys, more darkness and dread, just like before...
Oh, I don't know...how about because they were wildly successful and this is Diablo III, you know, a sequel to those said games? Why would we expect a game to be like their predecessors?
If Blizzard wanted to make a Dark Legions: Champions of Warcraft game in the vein of the current Diablo III, I would have no problem with the game at all. It would be perfect for that sort of thing. However the art direction is very poor for a followup to the existing series. We may as well make a sequel to Star Wars staring Mr. Bean as the new emperor...
GraphicMD
05-07-2008, 08:03
I think the game play video looked great. I like colors as oppose to looking too washed out and black and while. I hope Blizzard doesn't change too much.
The physics engine looks absolutely amazing!
From reading these forums, I get the impression everyone wants the game EXACTLY like D2. There is already a game like that. It is called Diablo 2. The good news, it is available now.
Vertigo X
05-07-2008, 08:23
From reading these forums, I get the impression everyone wants the game EXACTLY like D2. There is already a game like that. It is called Diablo 2. The good news, it is available now.
As far as I'm aware, nobody's foolish enough to actually want a D2 clone in 3D. We want Diablo 3, but there are elements of the gameplay videos that display a lack of artistic continuity, so to speak, with the previous games. I'm not talking about the colors so much as the lighting.
wow, it's difficult to explain things to people... it seems nobody reads anything and just come to trash others. And they even say that's what we're doing to Blizzard, when it's the exact opposite and what you're unable to do to us: come up with constructive criticism.
If you cared to only read things, you would see that NO ONE wants dull, washed out colors. The produced art is not like that. Personally I always only advocated for more darkness and a bit less color(less green specifically) in dungeons, and even one or other dungeon can be very colorful if there's lore behind explaining it.
The worst is that you all always ignore the ART STYLE as it was only colors. ITS NOT COLORS ONLY!!! ITS MAINLY THE MODELS AND CLEAN TEXTURES!! Sorry for the caps, no one seems to understand this.
stillman
07-07-2008, 01:19
The problem I have with all of this is some of you are implying the game is going to be ruined because of this new art direction. Some of you might not even buy or play the game becasue of these background issues. Does the lighting, color, background art, etc really impact your playing that much? I don't see how it is crucial to your enjoyment. It's all cosmetic stuff in the background. You won't even be interacting with the green light in the dungeons.
Sure, it looks a bit silly to have some unseen/non-existing green light source and blueish fog, but are you really going to let that ruin the whole game for you? What about the items and skills; does all that get toppled becasue of the rainbow presence? It all sounds a bit extremist. It's like me saying I refuse to play because I wanted the barb to have more scars.
I also wanted to point out that the feeling of dread and fear, not knowing if you can survive going around a corner (like in d1) is no longer possible to achieve. The simple reason is the run option. You can simply dart around the corner, see some zombies oozing towards you, then zoom back to safety. I think a lot of the scary feelings from d1 came from the inability to get away so fast, and they're never going back to this old slow walk style. No disrespect or anything, but aren't you guys sort of beating a dead horse?
Rashiminos
07-07-2008, 02:53
All this complaint about brightness, and we've hardly even discussed the possibility of venturing into heaven. Heaven is going to be bright, blindingly so, if it is in the game. Discuss.
toppknott
07-07-2008, 06:01
I'm concerned that the petition has risen to 36K "signatures". I feel like a minority player because I am not disappointed with how the gameplay movies and screenshots appear.
Rashiminos
07-07-2008, 06:25
I'm concerned that the petition has risen to 36K "signatures". I feel like a minority player because I am not disappointed with how the gameplay movies and screenshots appear.
Frankly, graphics should be a rather low priority at this point. The game breakers in D2 were never dealt with, just tossed under the rug by Pandemonium and D2 aging gracefully.
At the time of reading this, I am amazed over 36000 people have already signed the petition. Just remember that D2 took a very big leap when it came out from D1. Many complained that D2 seemed a bit too bright and happy. Although D3 looks different, I am sure Blizzard knows what they are doing and knows what people want from them.
to be honest, i expected the art to be going in this way. i mean, it looks more like WoW in many ways, but really, who is surprised by this? i like diablo II renditions quite a bit, but i don't think by any means the new artistic designs are bad. they're different in a way that changes the game to make it go forward. besides, it'll feel like a new game this way.
I have a question, how is it that people equate darkness and grit with maturity..? This whole arguement reminds me exactly of the movie: PLEASANTVILLE. When ya got grit and monotany, nothing stands out! It's = Boring, Zzz... That is why color variation is king! BRING ON THE COLOR!
As for the dissatisfaction with "graphic style." OP, I just want to know how you let WOW corrupt you in the first place? What I see in the D3 game trailers look darn good to me, then again, Ive never played WOW ... it pays to be true to D2!
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