View Full Version : Health Bulbs From Hell
Ok, so I'm getting old and get ultra conservative. ^_^
I don't like those damn health bulbs. It's a tiny thing, but quailty is in tiny things. Why I don't like them?
1. It's a nonsense.
I could accept than a monster dropped a potion, even if it was a Sand Maggot, but a health bulb? WTF is that? It's not even an item. It's some kind of abstact object out of nowhere.
2. It looks annoying.
Nice dark battlefied covered with corpses, debris, items and... big, red, gloving, hovering "health bulbs". It destroys immersion and make the game look like some kind of cheap console platformer.
3. Are potions a problem?
Ok, so they don't want players to drink potions all the time. What's wrong with that in the first place? In D2 it was solved nicely. Low threat - health potion. High threat - more expensive rejuvenation potion. What's wrong with that? I played some chars to lvl 93, did countless Ball and Meph runs and never had a problem with that. Just make potions stackable in inventory end it's cool. Health bulb is a concept stright from platformers. It has no place in an action RPG.
I suggest that they add big, glowing, hovering yellow coins instead of picking up gold. So user friendly! No tedious gold picking chore! It will be almost like playing Pacman then! ^_^
Don't forget to vote in a poll!
In that case it needs to be done like zelda. Have a fairy follow you around that picks up gold, health, mana and such. Makes it so all you have to do it point a click your life away.
Rashiminos
30-06-2008, 14:23
Replace bulb with "Swirling Blood Mist"
BattleWhack
30-06-2008, 14:25
I wasn't terribly impressed with the concept either, to be honest. Does detract from "immersion" a bit.
immersion, shimmersion.
I'll have to see how it really works in the game before forming an opinion. My only real concern is boss fights, where you need healing the most, will be handled.
mouseman
30-06-2008, 14:36
Eeeh.. Look at 8-players D2 game. There are green (poisoned) and blue (frozen) monsters on the screen, everything is coming down from above, all the skills are totally unrealistic, monsters drop all kinds of crap they shouldn't have (like maggots drop armor, gold, keys and so on) so I really wouldn't argue against health bulbs with the argument of realistic gameplay.. I get if you don't like them based on other reason, but personally I think they're pretty neat idea and Diablo needs something else than just potion-fest and running from danger.
It all depends how they play out in the game, though.
100% against it. If they don't want potions being chugged all the time, put 'em on a cooldown.
Have us use bandages (much like in WoW) where we need to be still and not taking any damage.
To hell with swirlies, I don't like free health like that. I feel dirty :(
RattleHead
30-06-2008, 15:19
immersion, shimmersion.
I'll have to see how it really works in the game before forming an opinion. My only real concern is boss fights, where you need healing the most, will be handled.
It's going to be VERY interesting to see how this plays out in hardcore (I can only assume that this will be in the game), as that's strictly how I'll be playing.
I voted that I could live with it, but ultimately, playing hardcore will be the true decider.
raveharu
30-06-2008, 15:25
There are potions in the game.
Those bulbs are just new add-ons so you can use them IF you want, for the sake of convenience.
mjkittredge
30-06-2008, 15:28
Like others have mentioned, if you're in trouble and taking heavy damage, what do you do if there is no red thing on the ground? Run away and slowly regen? TP back to town... oh wait, we don't even know if there will be town portals.
So, you just die? It reminds me of sidescrolling fighting games like Final Fight and Streets of rage, food items would be lying around and they gave back some health if you picked them up. But their appearance wasn't frequent, and when your health ran low, you were in most cases, SCREWED!
I guess this means we'll have to use very defensive tactics to avoid taking much damage, and run around a lot.
Ok, so they don't want players to drink potions all the time. What's wrong with that in the first place? In D2 it was solved nicely. Low threat - health potion. High threat - more expensive rejuvenation potion. What's wrong with that? I played some chars to lvl 93, did countless Ball and Meph runs and never had a problem with that. Just make potions stackable in inventory end it's cool. Health bulb is a concept stright from platformers. It has no place in an action RPG.
As they said in the panel, they didn't like the fact that alot of bosses simply came down to a battle of attrition, that could be beaten purely by bringing enough health pots to survive. They didn't really like that, so they are changing it.
Also, im not voting in your poll, because there is no choice between "BEST THING EVER" and "Dont really like them". I think they are fine, but im not going to scream from the rooftops about how it alone is going to make the game awesome :P
TP back to town... oh wait, we don't even know if there will be town portals.
Well cain got one in the gameplay video, they are in both 1 and 2, so stands to reason they will exist again in 3.
I guess this means we'll have to use very defensive tactics to avoid taking much damage, and run around a lot.
Uhhh as others have said, they have not totally thrown potions out. They are still there, you simply won't have to rely on them as your only source of
health recovery.
raveharu
30-06-2008, 15:52
Like others have mentioned, if you're in trouble and taking heavy damage, what do you do if there is no red thing on the ground? Run away and slowly regen? TP back to town... oh wait, we don't even know if there will be town portals.
So, you just die? It reminds me of sidescrolling fighting games like Final Fight and Streets of rage, food items would be lying around and they gave back some health if you picked them up. But their appearance wasn't frequent, and when your health ran low, you were in most cases, SCREWED!
I guess this means we'll have to use very defensive tactics to avoid taking much damage, and run around a lot.
hello? can you read ?
THERE ARE POTIONS IN THE GAME, only that in the video THE PERSON DIDN'T NEED TO USE THEM.
THE BULBS are just add-ons in the game, if you don't want to use them, then DON'T PICK THEM.
OMG!!!
mouseman:
I didn't say a word about realism. I said it breaks immersion. Immersion is more about consistency not about realism. Health bulbs are out of place. They stand out visually.
Like others have mentioned, if you're in trouble and taking heavy damage, what do you do if there is no red thing on the ground? Run away and slowly regen? TP back to town... oh wait, we don't even know if there will be town portals.
Emergency: rejuvenation potion. Normal: health potion. And if you ****ed up and went to a big fight when you shouldn't, you should die and learn. Monsters could have a potion drop rate binded to your inventory potion count. You have a lot - they don't drop. You have few - they drop more.
As they said in the panel, they didn't like the fact that alot of bosses simply came down to a battle of attrition, that could be beaten purely by bringing enough health pots to survive. They didn't really like that, so they are changing it.
So now I will have to constantly switch from the boss to minions to heal myself? And for caster classes there will be "mana bulbs" too? If they want to avoid attrition fights, then make combat system more skill based instead of stat/chance based. This way: more skill = less dmg taken. For ex. barb could interrupt attacks, with a well timed "parry", "block" and "stun" skills and there is no need for mass potionfest.
really guys if you had watched the d2 panels at the WWI you would know that like raveharu said potions are still in the game, drops will probably be less frequent. Also though the bulbs look kinda cheesy the concept behind it IS good, and i quote "If you're high on health, you want to fight. If you're low on health you'll want to fight". Thats why bandages dont work, D2 istn about sitting around and healing, its about slashing up as many monsters as you can:thumbup:
Fallen_62
30-06-2008, 16:10
hello? can you read ?
THERE ARE POTIONS IN THE GAME, only that in the video THE PERSON DIDN'T NEED TO USE THEM.
THE BULBS are just add-ons in the game, if you don't want to use them, then DON'T PICK THEM.
OMG!!!
Simmer down, yeesh. It was a slip up, misunderstanding on their part. You don't need to jump down their throat about it.
I think that these orbs will be a nice addition. If you don't want to use them, then don't run over them. If you want to, then go ahead. I'm wondering if they will have them for mana as well, or if that will be purely potion/shrine driven...
SirMoogie
30-06-2008, 16:12
Where is the, "I'll wait until beta and see," option?
"If you're low on health you'll want to fight"
LOL? Ok, and what with ranged combat? I kill a ranged monster from a pack but the bulb in across screen. What then?
Love em - they take an extra step out of the game after battle. Instead of having to quaff and pick up more potions, I can just run over the globe. No different, really - just a little easier.
raveharu
30-06-2008, 16:42
LOL? Ok, and what with ranged combat? I kill a ranged monster from a pack but the bulb in across screen. What then?
well duh range attackers are well, range so they take the least damage and rely more on self-potting.
Those orbs are mainly for the melee, I guess.
I'm not too fond of them. I agree with Hideo, they don't seem to belong, hopefully this might still change into something less Wii-ish. Plus, getting life/mana for kills, that what the "+XX life/mana after kill"-items are about.
raveharu
30-06-2008, 17:06
Guys, it is time to accept new changes.
This is Diablo 3, not Diablo 2.
TUSigmaChi
30-06-2008, 17:19
One thing I noticed isn't mentioned anywhere is the game designers desire to keep D3 constantly moving, as noted in the game play video. They felt it was important to give the player the ability to keep moving forward in battle without having to search for keys (not that finding 1-4 is difficult), and allowing them to solely use the mouse as the control.
I think they are a cool idea especially since they help the entire party. If potion drops are going to be fewer and further between, there won't be a mass exodus to search out potions (I know everyone will have the ability to pick one up if it appears).
To me it's an enhancement, granted they look funny on a green field of bodies, but an enhancement none-the-less.
i dont think anyone mentioned it but i think i remember in one of the vids someone saying that the bulbs dont just heal you, it heals everyone in the party a little. i think its more of their solution for not having a major "healer" type character in the game. tho we dont know that for sure yet with there still being classes to be revealed. but now id assume that there wont be a healing class.
with that in mind i think they'll be OK for games with a lot of people. if someones not getting any potion drops and no one wants to wait for them to go to town and get some and no one wants to share their potions. w/e the reason.
like i said, i think they're OK, not great, not terrible. but i do agree that they look a little out of place in the diablo world.
prowler666
30-06-2008, 17:28
Come on guys, whatīs really the difference in "touching" a red glowing orb and picking up a dropped potion and drinking it?
They just cut down one step in the process to make things more fluent, constant moving.
Hello Jim
30-06-2008, 17:31
It matters. It's not Diablo. Let's kill TPs and make a special button order attacks. No Diablo. Not that it's not Diablo 2, it's not Diablo at all.
102.78% against.
prowler666
30-06-2008, 17:37
At this time you guys should have realized that itīs Diablo 3, not 2, not 1. Itīs a new game, with some concepts from previous ones.
Innovations exists and will be applied in this new game, do you like it or not.
Blizzard canīt flavor all players in the world, no one will be fully pleased.
Gordondondnb
30-06-2008, 17:41
My only real problem with the health bulb idea is that boss battles will have a different dynamic altogether now. If bosses are primarily by themselves, then potions will be a must during that encounter. If Blizzard tries to avoid potion spamming in boss battles, then every boss will have some stupid "goons" around them that must be killed to heal. I like the bulb idea in general, but I am reserving final judgement until I see how the boss battles play out.
The questions raised about immersion are valid, but just a bit silly. These bulbs will probably be no less distracting than chat windows and join game notices, and far less "atmospheric interference" than inventory screens. I've spent the last 7 days reading posts from people concerned about the game becoming too WoW-ish, and now people are complaining about Blizzard's attempt to avoid just that. Nothing wrong with a little friendly discussion and speculation, but let's wait and see more before we write off the whole game and vow to only play D2(Not in this thread, but seen it several times today already).
Jaquiezz
30-06-2008, 17:48
I do love health orbs, look at god of war. Experience orbs, life/mana orbs were awesome to pick up. However, in a multiplayer/mass monster environment orbs of the same type don't really work as well. I would like to see the graphic a little murkier/darker. A bright red orb is a little obnoxious and does, IMO detract from the dark feel of the game. I would love a dark cloud of red swarming in a spherical shape, almost like the locust swarm but smaller and a deep red. THAT would be sexy.
Gordondondnb
30-06-2008, 18:37
I would have no issue with the color of the orbs changing, as long as they were easily seen and identified.
If it means that leech becomes less important then I'm against it
Life / mana leech is a great gameplay mechanic IMO.
On a side note, I think it's pretty safe to assume there will be TPs in the game. We clearly saw Cain go through one in the video, why wouldn't the characters be allowed to use them as well?
stillman
30-06-2008, 21:37
I see only mild problems, and I think the globes are a great idea.
-If you repeatedly click on a boss madly without playing defensively, then you suck and your chr deserves to die. What's the problem?
-I agree the globes look a little cheesy. They remind me of arcade space shooter games where your spaceship flies over the red orb and you get a weapon upgrade. This may sound a little like nitpicking, but I'd prefer the previously mentioned food idea, where instead of hovering globe things we don't understand, they are chicken drumsticks or something. Even changing the globe image to a red potion image which you can't pick up (only use) would be nice imo. We can just stretch our imaginatiosn a bit and envision that whoever touches the food/drink shares it with the others.
-The Q&A transcript says the globes heal not just the chr who touches it, but the nearby chrs too. This sounds like a great way to induce teamwork. Selfish players who snatch the globe before wating for the rest of the party to come close are not your friends.
-As for ranged chrs, archers and sorcs have the tremendous advantage of hanging back from the monsters and not getting hurt in the first place. There has to be a downfall as well, and less acessability to the globes is the downfall.
-Has anyone heard of RPGs? If the boss is too challenging, then your chr is not ready. Go back, level up a bit, get some better gear and try again later. Or get help. You people are spoiled from playing easy D2 full of its' dupes, hacks, etc.
-Potionfest is rotten. Anything is better. Hundreds of hours of our d2 playing time went into buying potions, putting the potions on our belts, looking at the belt to check that it is full of potions, picking potions up off the ground, and so on.
I don't like your poll either, OP. You skewed the answers with nothing between loving the new orbs and not liking them.
Personally, I'm pretty ambivalent. In general, I like them because (as previously mentioned) they should help balance the melee / ranged character discrepancies that existed in D1 and 2.
Plus, I like the boss implications of either the boss having adds or it being a long fight that wont solely depend on how many potions you have or if the boss can get lucky and 1 hit or 2 hit you.
What it all boils down to is that I hope with the bulb system they can avoid the spike damage base that D2 was. They can tone down monster damage, remove leech and still have a fast play game with tension in that you may or may not kill the enemies fast enough, without having to resort to a RNG to decide if your character lives or dies.
If it means that leech becomes less important then I'm against it
Life / mana leech is a great gameplay mechanic IMO.
I was thinking the exact opposite. I don't think leech improves the game, I think it dumbs the game down. With high leech the only way you can die is if enemies can kill you in 1 or 2 hits. With no leech they could avoid that bad mechanic of everything dying in 1 or 2 hits (players and monsters).
Indeed, my poll is not balanced. I wanted to know who loves them and who hates them. So far it's ~50/50. ^_^
Personally, I always liked potions management and item "tetris". Fight for some time, them a small break to charge up potions and rearrange items.
It seems they want us to just press forward all the time, forgetting about everything but combat. We will see how it plays out.
ExtraStrongFireEnchanted
01-07-2008, 13:05
I don't see anything wrong with the health bulbs. Managing potion in D2 was not fun. I agree that it will be interesting to see how the lack of potions or at least not abundance of them will affect boss fights.
In the Q&A video devs pointed out that bosses will be more challenging in a tactical sense. Right now I can a few ways how you could gain health during the fights.
1) minions. Killing them would provide some health bulbs. I can't really think of a boss in D2 that used minions, not counting 'waves' that you got to beat 1 after the other.
2) shrines, placed at specific places in the boss room which would replenish after fixed time.
3) life leeching if it is still remains in game.
Immersion is one good argument against health bulbs. Though I got a counter for that. How did you fight Hell ancients, eh? How many times did you TP'ed both in low levels and during boss fights because you ran out of pots. IMO health bulbs aren't any worse than these mentioned scenarios.
Immersion is one good argument against health bulbs. Though I got a counter for that. How did you fight Hell ancients, eh? How many times did you TP'ed both in low levels and during boss fights because you ran out of pots. IMO health bulbs aren't any worse than these mentioned scenarios.
Maybe potion system from D2 is not perfect. But their solution - damn health bulbs are not either. I don't think it's any better. It's just different and very out of place in Diablo. Some guy mentioned God of War as example, where various orbs are used... hehehe... console action adventure... So Diablo 3 is going to be like a console action adventure? Maybe it will support playing with gamepad too? -_-
IMO, solution to potionfest problem is to make combat more skill based, so that you can avoid dmg.
I was thinking the exact opposite. I don't think leech improves the game, I think it dumbs the game down. With high leech the only way you can die is if enemies can kill you in 1 or 2 hits. With no leech they could avoid that bad mechanic of everything dying in 1 or 2 hits (players and monsters).
I think it makes the game really exciting. If you're playing a glass cannon build and you're watching your health go down to 5% in one blow and then leeching it right back up again. And it all comes down to balance, they've totally nerfed leeching now anyway so it hardly makes you invincible anymore
The health bulb is a health potion, just made more difficult to use. You will get challenged by it, you may need to make a run for it, or you might miss it at a crucial time, or take it at a wrong time.
But it is a health potion after all exactly the same, the game just put demands on it, which makes me vote for it.
As they said in the panel, they didn't like the fact that alot of bosses simply came down to a battle of attrition, that could be beaten purely by bringing enough health pots to survive. They didn't really like that, so they are changing it.
*CHEERS*
Seriously, I've only ever lost to bosses (HC or running out of money/resources in SC) in normal. With the sole exception of the ancients (one of the better fights in D2 imho) everything in d2 is a given with time.
I would really like to see it it reach a point where progressing is questionable and beating bosses isn't a given, without having to impose my own restrictions to make it interesting.
So, I think the health balls could lead to more realistic game play and I'm perfectly willing to give them a chance.
StevenBrouwer
02-07-2008, 02:35
Am I the first to notice a minor health potion being drop in the gameplay video @ 9:10 out of a chest?
I think i would prefer the blub system without the potions, makes the game more dynamic as you need to get a blub instead of just keep hacking at the biggest mob.
ExtraStrongFireEnchanted
02-07-2008, 06:07
IMO, solution to potionfest problem is to make combat more skill based, so that you can avoid dmg.
Not going to happen. Diablo is hack and slash type of game with extremely easy controls. Now I don't really get it, are you suggesting that Blizzard should make a decision between 1) pots used from inventory replaced by less powerful pots with "auto-use" when stepping over them or 2) make diablo of completely new genre compared to D1 and D2?
etslayer
02-07-2008, 07:16
Right now healing bulbs might sound completely out of place in a diablo game, but when it comes down to the actual gameplay it could be a big improvement. I think that it will be one of those things that is met with hostility, but when we get used to it, we couldn't imagine living without it.
After all, chugging a full rejuv pretty much is the same as walking over a healing orb, the only difference is that healing orbs heal the whole party...
jamesisbest
02-07-2008, 07:54
I like the concept of healing bulbs to speed up play. Perhaps for it to immerse in the world better it can have a different visual like swirling blood someone else suggested earlier (sorry I forget who). They could also make it even 1 step more a lazy process by having the swirls automatically waft in to you (kind of like a vacuum effect) at the end of the battle if you didn't pick them up during the battle.
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