I hate the witch doctor

[Zarniwoop]

I don't know if anyone is like me, but I just was really underwhelmed by the witch doctor.

First, I don't really want to play a class hunched over like an ape dragging his knuckles. But, secondly, he's just really underwhelming compared to the barbarian's completely over the top effects. I you cannot match that stunning performance with another class, you need to get rid of that class or rework it. Seriously, it was like seeing the Toronto Space Needle next to a barn silo.

Second, as a person that has played necromancer for several ladders in a row as my main, I hate the witch doctor. I loved my pets. I loved my UNDEAD pets. I realize they are lag central when you have 30. But, they could easily just make them bigger, and stronger and fewer. Give them multiple attacks on surrounding mobs as they level. Ditto the skeletal mages. Allow me one revive summon that turns into a horrible, massive beast with crushing blow and AE stun that lasts only 15 seconds or something.

I was really excited about the barbarian, then this waddling disaster came out and I was like... "are they kidding?". THIS is the new necromancer? Witch doctor sounds like a guy that failed the necromancer final exam.

I'm reasonably excited about the game, but reasonably disheartened about the loss of necromancers. That's my play style. I will try to adjust to something else, but just looking at the thing was irritating.

If anyone from Blizzard reads this by some chance, please reconsider.

[LucianDK]

The Witch Doctor have me excited to play them. They are much more unique and interesting that the overdone necromancer stereotype from so many other rpgs. I think their flavor is much more in line with the Kurast jungles, where the Necromancers supposedly came from.

[Lyrs]

I can't say that I hate it, but it's not as "spectacular" as the Barbarian. I will withhold my judgment however. The Witch Doctor had showed potential.

Now if only we'll get a Mesmer class...

[LucianDK]

I can't say that I hate it, but it's not as "spectacular" as the Barbarian. I will withhold my judgment however. The Witch Doctor had showed potential.

Now if only we'll get a Mesmer class...

Isn't it mesmery to curse foes to attack their fellows? The Mesmer in GW would have cried and begged for such a mind control spell.

But it wouldn't suprise me if the Witch Doctor will be able to brew zombie juice to enslave monsters with for a limited time.

[Voorhees]

They look kind of numb, I'll agree with that. Other than that I am kind of intrigued by them.
Obviously, from what we've seen, the witch doctor draws automatic comparison to the current necro. Summons and curse like spells. The two things that stood out to me as potentially awesome was the ability to sort of buff your own summons with your damage spells. Could be cool, might not be as cool as it looks, we'll see. The ability to pop your own pets really excites me. Depending on how powerful this is, it could easily be one of the most powerful abilities in the game, perhaps even useful in pvp, and would be a real boon to anyone playing untwinked. No longer do you have to wait for a creature to die to start popping everything, now you can pop your own re-summonable pets? Good lord.

[Es Mors]

I really found the witch doctor intriguing. The only critisism I can think of is the locust swarm animation. The barbarian on the other hand was just the same old, IMO. At least the witch doctor is something new :yes:

[etslayer]

The witch doctor is just Dhalsim with a mask. I think Blizzard should pay Capcom royalties :P

http://www.meloncorp.com/arch/0037/zangief_dhalsim.png

[Zarniwoop]

Yes, it's something new. And it was so lackluster it was shocking.

It summons dogs? And it gives them rabies? And it throws slow, unimpressive fire blobs?

I'm probably just bitter. I could not possibly play that hunched little wretch.

[nicro tower]

The barbarian was over-the top crazy flashy special effects... this guy is kinda bleh...
at least make him look like a person, or have minions that dont look like some kind of demented dogs...

[sirwhere]

witch-doctors are gonna pwnz joo in pvp. just wait till i get my hands on one of them :)

[Pied]

The only problem I had with the witch doctor is that he doesnt look so human, more like a troll or something....

And another thing that annoyed me was the zombie-like-wall-spell, maybe the idea of a attacking wall is kinda nice, but why would those zombies stand perfectly in line and not move at all? not very logical to me....

To be clear, I'm really really excited about D3, but those are just some minor annoyances that crossed my mind.

[prion]

its cuz they're stuck in the ground

i dunno i think the gameplay looks cool. and keep in mind we've only seen 6 skills.

reminds me a little of the conjuror in Nox which was the only class I beat the game with

[Mad Mantis]

First, I don't really want to play a class hunched over like an ape dragging his knuckles. But, secondly, he's just really underwhelming compared to the barbarian's completely over the top effects.

I'll have to concur with that. I like the Necro and the WD looks like he'll support that kind of play style so that makes him good enough as a class.

The animations are indeed underwhelming. The hunched over walk worked for Troll Shamans in WC, but it doesn't work that well for a human. Apart from the Zombie Wall the other skills didn't have impressive visuals. A puff of smoke for blowing up the Mongrel instead of a decent gory explosion. Locust Swarm looks like a bunch of leaves with neon lights.




The ability to pop your own pets really excites me. Depending on how powerful this is, it could easily be one of the most powerful abilities in the game, perhaps even useful in pvp, and would be a real boon to anyone playing untwinked.

You can make FG explode in DII. It does a measily 100 physical damage and 100 fire damage.

[syndrohm]

its cuz they're stuck in the ground

i dunno i think the gameplay looks cool. and keep in mind we've only seen 6 skills.

reminds me a little of the conjuror in Nox which was the only class I beat the game with

Hit the nail on the head, I too was disappointed with some of the Witch doctor skills displayed but I also realized that they displayed a tiny bit of the skills that will be available to both classes. Think about all the skills available to the classes in D2. There are plenty of skills you dont use and even entire skill trees you dont touch.

[CaptainDingo]

Blizzard won't reconsider the Witch Doctor because there's nothing wrong with the class. Also, the Witch Doctor DOES look like a person. Go to the website and look at the Witch Doctor page. How does he not look human to you? You do realize he was wearing a big tribal mask in the gameplay demo, correct?

Mostly I'm shocked we've actually got people demanding that everyone be some straight-standing spectacularly over the top guy that flings ragdolls and makes blood fly. Do you really want EVERY class to be the same? The Witch Doctor's attacks thus far have far more "oomph" than anything the Necromancer had. What was his most kinetic attack, the bone spear maybe?

Lastly, the fact that we're judging the entire class based on like... 4 spells, is ludicrous. Everyone complaining is basically acting like they know for a fact this guy won't summon any undead minions. You did see the zombie wall, right? So he CAN summon undead. Just wait and at least see what they're doing with it before you huff and puff.

You guys (as in everyone who's flinging their noses up in the air and is sickened that Blizzard would dare replace the Necromancer with a more versatile class) jump the gun and are way too butthurt over something just because it's different from what you know. If you want Diablo II, go play Diablo II. I want Diablo III however, and I don't want some outbursts from a loud minority to ruin anything this game is trying to make.

We've even got people making threads saying Blizzard should make the game less colorful. *Headdesk* Nevermind just turning down your monitor saturation, they want the color to be gone for everyone.

[LucianDK]

Well said CaptainDingo. This is D3, not D2. Its a new game. And the Witch Doctor is a refreshing and unique class, instead of using popularized archetypes which have been done to death in so many other games.

Trust blizzard to innovate.

[Mad Mantis]

If you want Diablo II, go play Diablo II. I want Diablo III however, and I don't want some outbursts from a loud minority to ruin anything this game is trying to make.

Who said anything about wanting DII? Just because there are some resevervations regarding a single character class suddenly every one who is not over the moon wants nothing else than DII.1? Not only that, but those who do not like the hunched over look are apparently going to ruin every thing that DIII brings because of it?

[Dark_Times]

I also really like the witch doctor so far. Seems just as good as the old necro to me.

Some of you are disappointed in not getting the necro I guess. I'd feel the same way if it was the Barb who was left out.

[Zarniwoop]

You guys have to understand. Blizzard didn't keep the good ones back.

I work in the game industry. When you create a big fuss and you put your product out there, you are not going to show them the meager skills. You give it the best 20 minutes you can produce without giving the game away.

I will bet my house that if you asked Blizzard about the witch doctor off record and you worked there, they'd tell you that it's not quite up to snuff.

Barbarian was just astoundingly well done. Most of the classes in D2 were impressive on some level to about the same degree (if you took large pools of opinion).

That was the best they had for WD. It wasn't good.

[KamikazeDreamer]

There's a quote in one of the Q&A's about how the WD doesn't eliminate the possibility of having a necro in D3.


[Fugu_]: Witch doctor = spiritual successor to the necromancer?
[Fugu_]: ...No
[-- maltize has quit (Read error: EOF from client)
[Fugu_]: Thought about improving Necromancer, really cool class.
[Fugu_]: Witch Doctor would not prohibit making a necromancer.

from here http://www.diabloii.net/n/668039/diablo-qampa-diinet-transcript

so... all speculations about WD being the necro go against what Blizzard themselves say they are trying to do. It's unclear to me with the few spells shown just how close they are. Obviously the fire bomb spell is closer to an Assassin skill than a necro skill, the one with the bugs seems to work like similar to chain lightning from sorcs. So, it's clearly not just a simple implant of a necro into a different suit, it's something altogether new, and apparently it's creation doesn't guarantee the exclusion of the necro. But I guess people love to speculate.

[Es Mors]

Seems like the witch doctor will be a love or hate thing. All I can say is that I think he/she is great and I liked heimr even more than I liked the barbarian. It's just a matter of taste, I guess.



But common people... ZOMBIE WALL! :alright:

[kontankarite]

Hey, here's an amazing idea. A NECROMANCER that can do Zombie Wall.

Druid was an amazing class on its own. The Necromancer is a FAVORITE amongst everyone.

When you try to fuse them both together, you create EPIC FAIL.

What I'm seeing is a guy who can control undeath in a direct sort of way with animal summons. deleted lame.

[Telzen]

Man the Witch Doctor looked amazing to me. Looked better than the barb imo. Can't wait to play one.

[lumpor]

I agree to captaindingo. Don't you want the game to be fresh? Do you just want them to take the classes from old games? What if they only had the warrior, rogue and sorceror in d2? Would that be fun?
I like the witch doctor, and I don't want the necro to come back. I think the wd is a good replacement. It's more versatile and not so limited. And the wd probably CAN summon the undead. We've only seen a single summon and you think all his summons lok like mongrels? I think the animations were okay. Even locust swarm. It looked like bugs.

I'm a bit tired of necromancers. Even though it was my favorite class in d2, I still think it's just so stiff. There were no dramatic effects. Look at the bone spirit, the ultimate bone spell. Was that animation any good? I'm just glad the new one is fresh and all. I'm satisfied with the witch doctor.

The barbs animations were a tiny bit better yes, but the wd's animations were still awesome (especially horrify)

[etslayer]

Don't you want the game to be fresh? Do you just want them to take the classes from old games?

They can bring back the same character with a completely new skill set. This is not repetitive. People love the necro, and he's a perfect character for the diablo series.


here were no dramatic effects. Look at the bone spirit, the ultimate bone spell. Was that animation any good?

Obviously if they were to bring back these spells they would improve the graphics.

[Zarniwoop]

You could make a necromancer fresh.

Those dogs could be tiny skeletons that get bigger and bigger with every point.

You could combine a ton of points and summon a single undead dragon.

There's almost an endless list of things you could do that are fresh.

And you wouldn't be some voodoo junky in the back of a van.

[Kiroptus]

Of all the classes in D2, the necromancer was the most original in terms of gameplay. All the other classes were very run-of-the-mill in RPGs. Mage, Archer, Knight and Warrior. The necromancer had much more interesting tricks on his sleeve rather than raw damage.


He had manipulation, summons and could dish out great damage. Barbarians on the other hand were a chore to play until you get WW. In the class design chat they said how a skill that passivally ads +2 ou +3% crit chance was too boring. Which was pretty much what the D2 barb was, full of passives, boring one hit attacks. Hell... even the shouts are pretty much passive effects that have to be applied again and again. Only WW was the thing that stood out from him. I never liked the barb because I dont like rushing, and playing through lv 1 to 29 untwiked was amazingly boring.

If the barb, the most item depentent, full of boring passives class and very few fun skills was updated to the D3 barb, which gameplay is now beautiful to behold, full of action, movements, leaps, strong and cool attacks, etc... I cant see how the necromancer himself couldnt get his own update. Of all classes he was the one who really stand out in terms of being diferent.

And no, the WD isnt the update, some of the necro's concepts were transfered to the WD, but he isnt the necromancer. I dont think its cool to receive the WD so badly, maybe I will like him but I cant see why the most original and diferent character was axed and returning only with a fraction of its former concept.

[kontankarite]

That's what I'm getting at. It looks as though the WD is a fusion of Druid and Necro.

They ****ed up with the Mongrel. Last thing I'd want to see is some summoned wolf attacking over my zombie wall.

Screw the WD. You want to make a new class, great. But if so, then make something entirely new, don't go slicing perfectly good classes from D2 in half and mixing them together like it's going to be okay.

I'm waiting for them to do something uber lame with the WD like have one of its summons be something like Void Walker or a pack of snakes.

Necromancers are the masters of the undead. Essentially, a voodoo priest covered in a grass skirt can't measure up to the same kind of undead mastery as the Necro. So how about keep the WD and take all the Necro related stuff out of it.

I'd rather see a WD with the ability to manipulate crowds with voodoo dolls, a mastery of alchemy, and plagues. Now that would be sweet.

But all it looks like so far is a fire mage, with limited undead skills, and a huge focus on nature related plagues. He's the /b/stard child of the love triangle known as sorc, necro, and druid and his junk looks to be properly cut off.

[SmittySixTen]

I'm amazed at how upset people are getting over this. It's clear that the Witch Doctor is not done yet. From what I saw, those spells were more than likely early game skills. I really do not see them being end-game, so right now we basically got a taste of what the guy will be.

Everyone that has a problem with it can do one of two things:
1) Make your own game.

2) Don't buy Diablo III.

If you're not willing to do either of those, then wait until you actually get a chance to try the character before you have a hissy fit over it.

[Kiroptus]

If you're not willing to do either of those, then wait until you actually get a chance to try the character before you have a hissy fit over it.

The problem is that the WD came in a bad position, he came replacing the necro which is a big favourite of the community, if he was in his own position, not replacing anyone, he would be much more warmly received but the way he was introduced was just bad for the class itself.

It just left a bitter taste that such a bland class as the barbarian was brought back from D2 and got beatifully updated. Not only bought back, he basically IS the barb! He even got older from the 20 year hiatus. Lore-wise and class-wise he is there.

If we saw 2 completely new classes I think we would all move on, but if the barb was back why not the necromancer?

[kontankarite]

I fail to see where splicing 3 old classes into a "new" class is interesting. I think what's making people mad is that the WD is an overt rip off of a necro and a druid.

Those classes had their unique strengths. I guess we just don't feel it's a good idea to be splicing them together.

[Dark_Shadow]

I think I can agree with a few of the comments here - mainly that the WD's skill effects are mildly lack-luster in comparison to the Barbarian. However, there are two considerations to this.

The first is that in D2, the Barbarian's skill effects are possibly the least flashy of anything (perhaps with the exception of whirlwind *drools*); this could just be a way to pay back all the barb lovers out there for dealing with this fact.

The other consideration is that the barbarian is a --finely honed warrior--, and his attacks emphasize this. The witchdoctor's skills seem to be more raw and primal, and perhaps the animations are just trying to show this side of him off.
Also, after reading the info on the khazra, we find out that the Tengaze tribes were so warped and, if I may say so, de-evolved into a primal state - this may explain why he has the horrible crink in his back.

All in all, the skills (and animations) seem to fit the WD's background quite well.

[kontankarite]

No one is complaining about that. Everyone is complaining about the WD stealing cool from other classes.

I for one don't mind a perfectly unique and original character known as a WD. What I do mind is how this character blatantly borrows/steals all of its notoriety from several different and more interesting classes that's already been made.

[Goddess Belldandy]

the necromancer was my first love in diablo2. So i am having a hard time biting the bullet as well.

However, let's face it, if the necro does come it wont be until the expansion. or he is just gone forever, and his spirit lives on in the witch doctor. since the witch doctor has a ton of skills similar to that of the necromancer.

i am sure we can grow to like him,,hopefully.

but you are right, it's hard to replace the pale guy with a mullet and gothic armor. truly an idol of the diablo series...

[Dark_Shadow]

Hmmm...

I don't think of it as "stealing cool" from other classes. It's more like stealing animations than anything. I think we need to stop looking at it from the D2-necromancer point of view. He's not using "curses", and he's not "summoning undead." He's also not "summoning wolves" like the druid, and he's not throwing "firebombs" like the assassin. Instead, he is evoking spirits of terror and confusion to arrest the minds of his victoms. He's summoning a deranged, canine-ESQUE -demon-, not a woodland wolf. He's hurling what seem to be vials imbued with a spirit of fire.

So, don't look at it as stealing from "more interesting classes." It seems Blizzard is just using some animation styles from the other classes. Keep in mind - what we see may not be what we're going to get. If it is, however, I don't think there will be a Necromancer. And if there's no Necromancer, the WD will keep him in our hearts.

[Kiroptus]

It would be insanely cool to see a 3D necro wearing a dark set of armor(or a robe) and a goat skull as a bone helm, like the hexen II skull wizards:

http://hexen2.ravengames.com/images/bestiary/hexen2-bestiary_wizard.gif

But I guess that wont happen.

[kontankarite]

the necromancer was my first love in diablo2. So i am having a hard time biting the bullet as well.

However, let's face it, if the necro does come it wont be until the expansion. or he is just gone forever, and his spirit lives on in the witch doctor. since the witch doctor has a ton of skills similar to that of the necromancer.

i am sure we can grow to like him,,hopefully.

but you are right, it's hard to replace the pale guy with a mullet and gothic armor. truly an idol of the diablo series...

I'm sorry but there is no way the WD can fill the Necromancer's shoes.

They said the WD wasn't a replacement of the Necro. Fine. But being that the WD is basically a Necro/Druid poseur, we can assume that even though the necro isn't replaced, we'll have to continue playing D2 to even get some REAL Necro action.

Undead mastery is the domain of the Necromancer. So this grass wearing jungle man wanna be is going to have to sit the hell down and let the REAL masters of the undead do their work.

You'd think Blizzard would have been more thoughtful of the WD character borrowing any semblance of cool from the Necromancer. Zombie wall... pffft. That's the business of the necromancer, not some cracked out, grass wearing, jungle hobo.

[Kiroptus]

Lets not hate the WD all that much. I am quite sure that many talented concept designers and the game designers sat and discussed and made many sketches and concept arts to reach the WD and I dont think its cool to trash the creative work of someone like that. I found him cool and all but I agree that the necromancer would handle that zombie wall a lot better.


I like the concept of the WD I just dont like the removal of the necromancer, its like taking out what really standed out in terms of originality in Diablo 2 because the rest of the class was there to fill generic roles and generic roles are staple of games that require tank, healers, etc... the ARPG oriented gameplay of diablo can open possibilities to so much originality that those generic classes just feel that they could use some spice up, like how the barb had.

Maybe there is still hope for the WD to be liked by us, necromancer fans. The necromancer's element was "bone". If the wd is "cursed flesh" like that zombie wall points out, and he has the power to evoke hordes of dark colored cursed zombies, then it I think it will be pretty cool. Spirit stuff like can also be used by his shamanistic powers and all.

But yeah, the necro will be missed either way.

[prion]

Everyone is complaining about the WD stealing cool from other classes.


no, not "everyone"...

[kontankarite]

Well, the necro was more bone and poison.

I have NO QUALMS with the witchdoc being more zombie and fire with an emphasis on mind control.

But what we DO NOT NEED is a necro/druid/fire sorc fusion. That's not original at all.

The mongrel does not leave one with a feeling of reassurance. Unless I saw it wrong, it actually looked more like a small DOG (druid) with rabies. I have no problem with it being some form of zombie dog.

The thing with the Necros was that the summons it had was Golems, skellies, and revives. It also had mastery over bone and poison with curses.

I want a NECROMANCER in Diablo 2. I don't care what you call it. I just want a guy who has the ability to stay more or less, strictly undead mastery related.

If that means the witchdoctor has all kinds of zombie-like capabilities with abilities to buff the zombies, then hell yes, I'm game.

[SmittySixTen]

The problem is that the WD came in a bad position, he came replacing the necro which is a big favourite of the community, if he was in his own position, not replacing anyone, he would be much more warmly received but the way he was introduced was just bad for the class itself.

Here's the problem as I see it.

Everyone is working under HUGE assumptions. Firstly, we don't know what the other three classes are, or what the eventual expansion classes will be (there are always expansion classes).

Secondly, no one has played the Witch Doctor, and we have only seen a fraction of the character's ability. People could very easily be surprised with how much they like it.

People need to get their panties out of a bunch and just get excited about the game. I never would have thought that there would be so much belly aching over possibly one of the biggest announcements in video gaming history. It's like some people aren't happy until they have something to be unhappy about.

[Kiroptus]

Everyone is happy about the D3 announcement, this is quite a minor issue compared to the whole package of awesomeness that is the D3 announcement.

But its a issue to be noted nonetheless, that a big favourite of the fanbase was partially merged into another class.

[Mad Mantis]

I can't say that I'm happy about loosing the Necromancer. Sure, he might come in an expansion on a later date, but in the release of the game he won't be present. The WD fills about the same role a Necro would have. With a guess of 5 character classes and the WD and Barb being two of them, it is unlikely that they would add another char that has the same basic role as the WD.

Does the fact that I like the Necro and would have loved to see him return mean that I'm against any for of advancement for the series? No, it does not. All it means is that I like the visuals, style and play style of a certain character class and would have loved to see him return. It's no biggie, I'll get over the loss and will probably love this game and the replacement class.

Am I entirely unhappy with the WD? No, I’m not. I think he can be great fun to play and a voodoo witch doctor has some great potential. There really are some great skills possible. At the moment I'm just a bit under whelmed with the animations that we have seen so far. Does that mean that all the animations will be that way, or that they won't change the ones I'm unhappy about? I can't say. The only thing I can comment on is what I have seen so far. Until Blizz releases more info, what we have now is all I can realistically comment on.



cracked out, grass wearing, jungle hobo.

That was funny. I might use it in my sig.

[Flux]

I'm sorry but there is no way the WD can fill the Necromancer's shoes.

I'm pretty sure WDs don't wear shoes.

Also, he's clearly a necro rip off -- one undead dog summoning (which lead to corpse explosions) does not a druid rip off make? If they were skeletal dogs would he be more necro-rific?

On the larger point, we don't have forum archives from 1999, but i can assure you that there were threads just like this back then, when the new characters were introduced, and we only knew their look and a short gameplay movie and about 5 skills. People hated the barbarian since he was just a big warrior too dumb to wear armor. People hated the necro since he was just a watered down sorcerer. People didn't like the paladin since he was no good solo and could was just an aura party guy. people didn't like the sorceress since she was just a sorcerer w/ a vagina. About the only one I don't recall complaints about was the amazon, and that was largely since she was the only one we knew about for like, a year.

It's fine to complain, but have some faith in bliz. they have made pretty fun chars in their games to date, and they're actually playing d3 every day and seeing if things are fun or not. They might know slightly more about the game than we do at this point. They've shown no lack of ability to make major changes when need be, and it's not as if they're contractually obligated to include the top half of a Flayer Shaman as a playable character. If they didn't like him and think he was cool, they wouldn't have him in the game.

[Es Mors]

The Necromancer is a FAVORITE amongst everyone.


Talk for yourself. Druid is my favourite, with necromancer coming second. You can guess that I find the blending of them into one character utterly awesome! :thumbsup:


But what we DO NOT NEED is a necro/druid/fire sorc fusion. That's not original at all.

Actualy, bringing back the necromancer similarly to what he is in Diablo 2 would be much more unoriginal, don't you think?

[Hello Jim]

"Actualy, bringing back the necromancer similarly to what he is in Diablo 2 would be much more unoriginal, don't you think?"

Agreed. I hoped they won't bring back any of the old chars/skills and was disappointed at the Barb, new and cool as it might be. The combination of 3 chars is interesting and it at least uses other spells, which won't be boring (like remaking the exact same skills from the Necro).

[Hideo]

I don't understand why some people say that Necro class is "limited" while WD is not.

Do we have bigger fantasy lore about undead and dark demonic forces or about voodoo? Which theme gives more potential coolness? Do you prefer demons and undead or a tribesman with a voodoo doll? Which theme fits dark style of Diablo more? Is Act 3 of D2 your favorite?

Necromancer has three main roles, as I see it:

1. Summoner

There are endless new ways of changing an improving it. Corpse disappearing is no problem at all. You can rework old minions and add new like ghosts. Add them special abilities. This could bring some RTS gameplay to boot.

2. Debuffer and CC

IMO, curses in D2 are the most fun type of spells of all. Many of them are tricky to use and affect AI in cool ways. You can make monsters escape. You can make their attack weaker, make them more vulnerable to various types of dmg, blind ranged attackers, make them fight among themselves. New curse could for ex. "silence" casters. It's not your old boring DPS, DPS, DPS and more DPS. Their use is very tactical an FUN.

3. Utility

They could borrow from WOW things like drains. Necro would be able to channel health an mana from one char to other. Suck life from one guy and give to somebody else. Very Necro and cool tactical uses. Sometimes to kill, sometimes to heal.

Ok, so now WD. People say they want something new and original and Necromancer is cliche. So what REALLY NEW this WD has?

...

NOTHING! The only new thing is jungle visual style which is controversial.

[jamesisbest]

To be honest I'm shocked that so many people would even considering wanting the same classes in Diablo 3. I don't know why there is such attachment to the necromancer. In my opinion he hardly even fit in with the hack and slash feel of diablo 2. Summons doing all your work is a bit slow paced and boring. The witch doctor has more interactive skills than just the basic summon, you can buff them with your skills and explode them for damage. Also seeing only a handful of skills is just a preview of them. I also thought the zombie wall was a neat idea. The necromancer did have the best voice acting and quirky feel to him in diablo 2 but it doesn't mean you won't grow to love the new characters in Diablo 3. I bet if they showed a different unique class to diablo 3 other than the barbarian in the intro the necro community wouldn't feel so empowered to beg for the necro class. A mistake I hope Diablo doesn't make in the 4th game. I think fanboism has taken a bit of rationality out of some people and not catering to their needs will end up clearing their heads when they realize not having a necro is not a bad thing after all.

[Es Mors]

So what REALLY NEW this WD has?


The combination of curses and summons with direct damage fire skills. New appearance, style and lore. All good. :yes:

[Mad Mantis]

To be honest I'm shocked that so many people would even considering wanting the same classes in Diablo 3.

The same can be said for the opposite. Why are some so adamant about wanting all new classes? Is it because a new class means they can have new visuals and a new style? It can't be just because of new skills since all skills of a class can be renewed. Not one needs to stay the same.

[Erwwwd]

Here's the problem as I see it.

Everyone is working under HUGE assumptions. Firstly, we don't know what the other three classes are, or what the eventual expansion classes will be (there are always expansion classes).

Secondly, no one has played the Witch Doctor, and we have only seen a fraction of the character's ability. People could very easily be surprised with how much they like it.

People need to get their panties out of a bunch and just get excited about the game. I never would have thought that there would be so much belly aching over possibly one of the biggest announcements in video gaming history. It's like some people aren't happy until they have something to be unhappy about.

qft

A bold statement like "I hate the witch doctor" is way too early. We have no way of knowing how it will work out. You can't hate it yet. Too strong and definitive a word.

[Dembol]

I actually found the WD quite cool. I always liked tribal/voodoo themes so it came rather easy. I'd think of it more as an summoner druid + poison + mind control than a necro.

I loved zombie wall. The other skills were also neat. I don't necesarry like the waydog/mongrel/whatever summon looks. It'd be awesome if he could summon those little guys from act 3 (duh, forgot the name, it's been a while since I last played) and shoot poisoned darts using a blowpipe :D Some earth/plant themed spells could also be a nice addition (druid's creepers with ability to attack enemies would be nice) that go well with the jungle theme. And I want more zombies. It's a pity that they were always so slow so they aren't that good summons, but a spell which could raise a couple temporary zombies would be a fun addition.

There's no point complaining whether it's better to keep the old classes or add completely new. Blizzard seems to be doing the best of things - keeping the (good) old ideas, mixing them in completely new ways (to create new gameplay features) and adding a bit of new stuff fitting well with the old. It would really suck if I started Diablo 3 and after 5 minutes I'd know the perfect cookiecutter build for my new character. New ideas assure that there'll be a lot of fun for the new players and for those who had hundreds of 99lvl characters as well.

It's good to be back after a looong break :)

[lumpor]

Actually, I agree a bit that I don't liked the skills for the wd. Vodoo dolls, plagues and nature spirits would be better. I don't like the fire bomb or the undead skills. They don't fit him

[Lazarus II]

Personally I don't understand why so many want just a facelift to D2 instead of something fresh. From the videos I still get that Diabloesque feel and atmosphere, but there's also lots of new and exciting stuff, like the Witch Doctor. I love that guy's abilities already.

[Hello Jim]

2nd on that.
I just hope they won't make him too much of a Necro. I mean, if the concept will be the same (summoner/1 elemntal/1 elemental- and curses on the side) this will be very boring and we'll get the hang of it too quickly. I'd like to see the WD more as a Dark Druid than a voodoo Necro, or if it's still possible- Something totally new.

[Kiroptus]

I dont think anyone would be asking for the return of the necro if the barb didnt come back. He IS the barbarian from D2. The very same character visual wise. And cmon, he was made of passives, temporary passives (shouts) and WW.

I repeat, of all classes the necromancer was the one who had the least generic role, he was original, full of tricks and variations. Im sad to see him go when the barb is there, updated to be much more interesting. Plus no one is asking for D2's necro, we are asking for a Diablo 3's necro, updated and more pratical. Its true that some people with little imagination hate a class that escapes from the generic classes' role like the necro but there is a good part of the community that likes those tricks and the necro was perfect for those.

[kontankarite]

Look, no one here is overtly against the WD for newness reasons. It's the insinuation that he's here to replace an already well established, and quite frankly, more aesthetically pleasing character. They claim that the WD isn't a Necro replacement. That's all good and fine, but the huge evidence so far is that this guy has been stealing from the Necromancer's cookie jar. Soul Harvest, Zombie Wall, Horrify...

I like the idea of the witchdoc as a new class, but I don't like the idea of Blizz slicing up old classes from D2 and mixing them together to call them new classes. You want to make new classes, great. But don't make it seem like your obviously trying to covertly rip off D2.

[syndrohm]

Look, no one here is overtly against the WD for newness reasons. It's the insinuation that he's here to replace an already well established, and quite frankly, more aesthetically pleasing character. They claim that the WD isn't a Necro replacement. That's all good and fine, but the huge evidence so far is that this guy has been stealing from the Necromancer's cookie jar. Soul Harvest, Zombie Wall, Horrify...

I like the idea of the witchdoc as a new class, but I don't like the idea of Blizz slicing up old classes from D2 and mixing them together to call them new classes. You want to make new classes, great. But don't make it seem like your obviously trying to covertly rip off D2.

While a master of the dark arts, those skills you mentioned have nothing to do with the Necro. Necro's summoned skellies, golems, and ressurected slain monsters. They never summoned zombies. Although the Necro had a skill identical to Horrify, it wasn't exclusive to the Necro (Grim Ward ring a bell?). And when did the Necro harvest souls or anything close to that? There are many paths in the dark arts and there is room for all whom embrace the dark arts. For those complaining about the uselessness/ugliness of the mongrel summons I am sure they are the first summon availible. How many people forgo the more powerful summons (Grizzly Bear, Dire Wolves) for the weaker ones you get first? I'm sure they have many more skills up their sleeves and possibly a Necro in the future.

[Kiroptus]

I don't know why there is such attachment to the necromancer. In my opinion he hardly even fit in with the hack and slash feel of diablo 2. Summons doing all your work is a bit slow paced and boring.

Teleporting around and skipping every monster until the boss is also against the idea of a hack and slash and it was the most abused feature of the game.

[kontankarite]

While a master of the dark arts, those skills you mentioned have nothing to do with the Necro. Necro's summoned skellies, golems, and ressurected slain monsters. They never summoned zombies. Although the Necro had a skill identical to Horrify, it wasn't exclusive to the Necro (Grim Ward ring a bell?). And when did the Necro harvest souls or anything close to that? There are many paths in the dark arts and there is room for all whom embrace the dark arts. For those complaining about the uselessness/ugliness of the mongrel summons I am sure they are the first summon availible. How many people forgo the more powerful summons (Grizzly Bear, Dire Wolves) for the weaker ones you get first? I'm sure they have many more skills up their sleeves and possibly a Necro in the future.


Are you implying that mastery over zombies isn't even slightly like a Necro thing?

[syndrohm]

Are you implying that mastery over zombies isn't even slightly like a Necro thing?

No I am implying that there has been nothing in the previous iterations of Diablo to limit the summoning of zombies to the Necro class. Would it be normal/awesome to see a Necro summon a horde of zombies? Hell yea! But saying that no other class should be able to is rediculous. I would consider the summoning of zombies as an ability of the Dark Arts, which the Necro and the Witch Doctor both use.

[Zarniwoop]

Since I started this thread, and it's growing, I will answer the question, why would I post this so early.

First, let me say that I do believe that whatever they do, Blizzard will make a fun game. I do not dispute this.

However, the witchdoctor, while funny looking, just isn't anything heroic or menacing. I saw all the different clips of it, and I agree, it's better than it looked in the first long trailer. But, it looks more like a clown than a menacing figure. I'm sure they will fix it up, I hope.

I guess the point is that a witch doctor feels to me like a guy in his first year of necromancy school. And if you give a guy zombie walls, you have just announced there will be no necromancer. Argue all you want.

I know the term lagomancer came from somewhere. Make 3 skeleton pets that grow over time and become huge later. With muti target attacks, low levels of crushing blow, whatever. Add horrifying effects when spawned. If you want to give him disease sprays great. But,I picture that guy coming out of a hut in a swamp and everyone else going, christ, get the hell away from me you stinking wretch.

I'll live either way, and I am sure the WD will be popular. But, it's cool factore in my book remains unchanged at a hearty 3/10.

[Zeek]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. To me the witch doctor looked like he was using early level skills. I can't imagine we'll be throwing little fire bombs at the big baddies at the end of the game. Though firebomb was exactly an early level skill of the assassin. I don't see the problem there.

I thought they even mentioned in the gameplay trailer that the mongrels were early summons of the WD. So, that's like his first summon. Let's wait and see what else he has up his sleeves before we get too worried. It's not like you see a lot of druids using just crows to fight their battles.

I know that if I had D3 in my hands right now and all I had to choose from was a same old same old barb and the new witch doctor that I'd choose the witch doctor.

[prion]

i'd make both...flip a coin for first one....

[Queen Mebd]

I really don't see what all the fuss is about. To me the witch doctor looked like he was using early level skills. I can't imagine we'll be throwing little fire bombs at the big baddies at the end of the game. Though firebomb was exactly an early level skill of the assassin. I don't see the problem there.

That's actually a great point Zeek, fireblast is actually a great stunlocking tool for pvp assassin's - a 9 frame trap with no nextdelay makes it wonderful for locking down opponents with mindblast swirlies active. But you never would have gotten that from watching a video of an assassin running around fireblasting fallen and quill rates in the more or even laying lightning sentries later in the game. I think the witch doctor looks like a lot of fun from what we've seen, but it's just that, from what we've seen thus far. ^_^

[cmc]

I gather some people are objecting because they feel the WD doesn't seem to fit the Voodoo/black magic theme enough. I think maybe it should differentiate itself from the necromancer in that it should not have any undead summons or spells.

Things I think the WD should specialise in:

Spell specialisation in Poison and Disease, minor in fire.
Makes the most sense for this class type. The AOE fire ability should also come streaming from his mouth as fire breath (like the Fetish creatures in Diablo II) maybe vary the distance according to skill level. Also blowing poison darts from his mouth seems like a trademark skill if indiana jones is any indication.

Summons.
Large venomous insects such as spiders in Diablo II; Carnivorous plants such as maneating vines are good (imagine them slowing down movement too); Reptiles and snakes seem the most suitable.

I think the manipulation of a voodoo doll to affect crowds is actually pretty cool. Imagine the animation above his head is actually a doll he is manipulating with his hands. They should spice this animation up a bit to make it seem that way.

[Flux]

what if they called him a Voodoo Lord? and made him tall and upright and severe, like oh... Lurch?

[HRP]

I don't know about you guys, but spewing out a swarm of locusts that devours my enemies and turns them into a pile of blood and bones sounds pretty awesome to me. I think it's pretty dumb that he can summon dogs from dirt, but hey, this is a fantasy action-RPG, not real life.

[kontankarite]

You know what's weird. I remember when playing d2 about how much the necro reminded me of something quite voodoo like.

Here's the crux. Necromancer fans LOVE the aesthetic of the necromancer. It's brooding, it's dark, it's enigmatic, and it's powerful. The necromancer holds the keys of death and undeath in his hands. He mocks death, he mocks the reaper for crying out loud.

So the Witch Doctor is a summon/support class. Big deal. I don't care if he's got all the snakes and mongrels in the world helping him out. I don't care that he uses flaming potions to blow people up. I don't mind the WD being a whole new class. What we do mind is that he has at least some degree of mastery over undeath. THIS is what the necromancer fans are having a hard time dealing with. He has zombie wall and spirits helping him out.

Basically, what the means is that there isn't even a chance to have a necromancer in a different kind of role. There's no HOPE of having any kind of dark magic class that is known as the Necromancer.

That zombie wall and the help from spirits is a guarantee that you will not be seeing a necromancer as a playable character in any way what so ever. So the best we can hope for is a necromancer who just stands around as an NPC or worse yet, our enemies.

We can't be talking about just play styles, we've also got to be talking about the art and attitude of each character. Since the WD has some kind of control over the undead, it basically proves that the necro is unavailable as a playable character because there's no way in hell Blizzard is going to make two classes with mastery over the undead.

So honestly, the WD doesn't have nearly as much personality as the necromancer. Not even close. Sure, he's "cute" and kinda "funny" with his crack withdrawal fits, but he lacks that certain mystery and dark attitude. That aloof, shadowy character who knows far too much about forbidden things.

We wont see a character like that in D3. At least not a necro. Maybe a pally may become the new aloof character who is kind of dark and brooding.

But if the WD is any indication that he's the new master of the undead, then you're going to have a whole slew of disappointed fans.

I love the control of the undead. Too bad the character that's delivering that to me is the cracked out version of the monkey shaman from The Lion King.

[kontankarite]

Sorry to double post, but if my post was TL;DR, allow me to simplify what we, the necromancer fans, are trying to say.

We are getting this:

http://www.lionking.org/characters/images/Rafiki-char.jpg

Instead of this:

http://www.thanatosrealms.com/diablo2/pictures/necromancer/render01.jpg

Rafiki is apparently Blizzard's new master of the undead.

[Joshisapoolie]

Perhaps a more "bone" skill focused Necromancer would allow it to be distanced from the WD.

Like alot of people, the necro was my favourite character, especially in PvP. Max block, along with enigma allowed my to dispatch opponents with bone spear/spirit using alot of fcr. Maybe by expanding the bone attacks/defense element of the character it would set it apart from the Witch doctor in terms of allowing the WD to keep most of the summoning aspects of gameplay. Perhaps a stronger version of teeth? Probably could get away with retaining curses too.

Not saying you should do away with summoning all together as it was the defining element of a necro for many people but it wasn't the only aspect of the character.

[prowler666]

Come on guys, If you don´t want changes, go play D2 and stop bragging and cursing Blizzard.

We will have 5 classes in D3, as stated by the FAQ, with 3 open spots (Barbarian and Witch Doctor already taken).

Now we have 6 missing classes from D2, and at least 3 of them will not be present in the new game. Stop being selfish.

Too bad it´s the Necromancer. Live with that.

[Zarniwoop]

Come on guys, If you don´t want changes, go play D2 and stop bragging and cursing Blizzard.

We will have 5 classes in D3, as stated by the FAQ, with 3 open spots (Barbarian and Witch Doctor already taken).

Now we have 6 missing classes from D2, and at least 3 of them will not be present in the new game. Stop being selfish.

Too bad it´s the Necromancer. Live with that.


Your post fails to grasp one important concept. That is your opinion. I stated mine. I in no way expect you to agree with it. But everyone telling me, "go play D2 then" adds nothing to the equation. I am sure I will play D3. I'm NOT MARRIED TO THE NECROMANCER! I am not saying D3 MUST have a necromancer.

But, I am saying the Witchdoctor simply sucks in my opinion. He's a bobbing clown that vomits leaves. There's nothing cool or menacing about him, in my opinion. I gave suggestions for a necromancer like class, but you could call it a dark stalker, a beastmaster, a dark summoner, whatever. Even call it a witch doctor. But, don't make it goofy.

Edit: and I stand pat on my statement that undead minions are far, FAR cooler than stray dogs.

[Dorfoumous]

Wow...just wow...

The game isn't even out yet. And the only thing we know about the game is the video, where it doesn't even really show much

so, I wouldn't get so upset about something you know nothing about

Plus if you all keep whining the game will never be released.

[kontankarite]

http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview


Most of the content is made. All the classes are done. All the content is done. It's just a matter of time. What you see is what you get. Sorry guys, looks like you're going to have to deal with the fact that the ones that made D3 still had a hard on for Warcraft.

[Glurin]

Most of the content is made. All the classes are done. All the content is done. It's just a matter of time. What you see is what you get.

"We have a long way to go. Mostly on the content side."

Doesn't sound done to me.

[kontankarite]

"We have a long way to go. Mostly on the content side."

Doesn't sound done to me.



He did say the classes were basically done.

[sectoid]

Back on topic, my vision of the WD is that he's OK, but is just not that cool to stand out. A good way to represent this would be, "If blizz were making D4 and choosing some classes from D3 to come along, the WD certainly would not be one of them".

I can picture him in the lore of the game, he has decent skills(I find disease damage way better that D2's poison, it seems to give more damage and quicker) and can have funny talk here and there. I certainly would laugh if he suddenly spoke "rakanishu!" to a fallen in that high-pitched tone voice :P (i.e. if he spoke monster language...)
Still, even with all that, I'll probably not play him as the first, and may even not "play" him beyond taking a look at his skill tree at all.

[Ampersand]

Witch doctor having no personality?...he's got way more than the necromancer, who is like the teenager who wants to be like everyone else...while the witch doctor does his own thing. That big mask of his also adds to his creepiness and charm.

[TheReadMenace]

There have been some wild assumptions tossed around in this thread. The necro is NOT my favorite class, I find the WD MORE asthetically pleasing than the necro, and just because he uses comparable skills to D2 classes doesn't mean he's a boring, rehashed character.

It's obvious that the WD haters aren't going to have their opinions changed, and that's that. But I'll share my own opinions. First off, to all those who'll miss their beloved necromancers: boo-frickin-hoo. I miss my dead father. Get over it.

IMVHO, I always thought that necros were the misfits of D2. How can a pallid faced, skeleton raising person be on the side of good? An undead skeleton is NOT heroic. There's the saying "Fight fire with fire." Well, that's like saying we should do a control burn on all the forests in California so we won't have to deal with widespread wildfires later on.

Here's an idea: Instead of being negavite Nancys about the loss of a beloved class, how about embracing a new character model that'll have a whole new combination of skills that we've never tried before? And hating him simply because he's hunchbacked, grass skirt- and headdress-wearing, shoeless & primitive seems awfully racist to me.

Flame away. Admittedly, it sucks that you've lost a character and playstyle you've come to enjoy. But who knows? There's still three unannounced classes, plus the guarantee that an expansion will come out since that's Bliz's style. There may just be a dark, foreboding, brooding character you can relate to and come to love just as much.

[PoXeR]

Could not have said it any better myself.

[PlastBox]

Ok, here is my 2 cents.

First of: some pro-Necromancer views:

The Necromancer is the only anti-hero of Diablo lore. A lot of people like the anti-hero better than the standard super-hero, and as someone who fights for humanity despite beeing hated and shunned for their ways, they fit this role exceedingly well. Everyone else fights on the side of Light, the High Heavens. The Necromancers, members of the secluded Cult of Rathma, fight to uphold balance and to ensure humankinds right to exist and live as they will, not as pawns of Angels or Demons.

Also, I saw someone in this thread claiming Necros are evil for what they do. Go read some lore, man! Necros do not use your dear grannys soul for cannonfodder. He uses spiritual energies (mostly his own, according to lore) to animate and manipulate bones, items and corpses. This is not the same as torturing someone by binding their soul to a corpse and force it into fighting, or harvesting and binding souls to items (something I would more imagine a Haitian Voodo Priest of stories, or the WD doing).

Base line is; I like having the anti-hero. You are protecting people, saving the world, but you are still so dark and mysterious that the very people you are saving fear and shun you. No, I am not emo. Check out japanese animé. The underdog/anti-hero is like a red thread in most stories. Hunter X Hunter, Hellsing, Hajime no Ippo, Naruto and many other I can't remember right now.:yes:


That said, I could come to like the WD, IF they at least make him stand up straight! I mean.. come on! Have you guys seen African tribal people? Tallest people in the world, proud and firce warriors, incredible stamina, and they are not hunchbacked. Their shamans/which doctors enter trances to go into an "Unseen world" like the D3 WD, where they can communicate and ask the aid of spirits and such. Despite what Blizz would have us believe, they do not look like Quasimodo.:whistling:

I think there is HUGE potential to a Which Doctor class and it can no doubt fill the summoning/cc role that Necro had in D2. Still, they need to make him look like he's proud of what he's doing, not like a 90 year old geriatric patient! With the color palette, this game is already a tad bit more cartoony than I what I had hoped for. The addition of a character that looks like Quasimodo at the *** Pride Parade is really not needed. Still, I wouldn't mind a Which Doctor taking the Necros place IF he was made to look like a proud warrior and had skills comparable to the hoodo/voodo priests and which doctors in our real-world lore.

[PlastBox]

Decided to split my reply to two posts, seeing as how the first became so long noone are going to read it anyways. =P

Diablo III will contain 5 classes. Considering the fact that Blizzard is not in any way stupid or incompetent, they will not make 2 classes fill the same role. So here comes my speculation on which roles will be included:

- Warrior (the Barb already fills this nicely)
- Summoner/CC (the WD will no doubht fill this role, previously occupied by the Necro)

- Ranger (come ON, there will be a bow/javelin using class!)
- Classic magic user (Like the Sorc, wielding elemental, "traditional" magic)
- support/melee (something like the Pala, supporting with something like auras and maybe a little healing, but also able to fight their way through the game solo)


In my opinion ("opinion" beeing the key word here), there is no way Blizzard is going to put the Necro in this game. Having two Summoning/CC-classes makes no more sence than having two Warrior-classes whos only real skill is beating things over the head with something heavy.

I will miss the Necromancer as much as anyone, but I still almost had to change my underwear when Blizz finaly confirmed Diablo III. I have no doubht this will be a great game, and Blizz won't release it until the Which Doctor is every bit as awesome and usable as all the other classes.

[Mad Mantis]

Seems like most people either hate the WD or like him. Just like the Necro. Am I sad to see our pasty, white mullet-wearing, red-trousered curse ***** go? Yes. I liked the way he looked, I liked the way he played and I liked what he stood for. I even liked his reputation ingame and on the boards. For most of the Necromancer players the WD has some very big shoes to fill.

At this point in time Blizz can say that he is not here to replace the necro, but for us players it does feel that way. It is sad to see another class usurp your favorite class' role while another class survives the transition to a new game.
Does that mean that we won't give the WD the chance that he deserves? For some it could very well be. That is in their right. They also have the right to voice this opinion.
Others will give the char a chance and then decide. They can make their reservations known as well.
And there are of course the new people excited to see a class appear that caters to their wishes. For them it can be hard to see this new and exciting class being ripped on by people who liked his predecessor more. They also have the right to make this known.

However I remain of the conviction that the WD could be a very cool class to play. The thing I don't like right now are a few visuals. That could be fixed. I'd love to see more bad-*** animations and less of the WC troll. But if all I don’t like are a few animations, I think things are looking pretty decent for me.



But, I am saying the Witchdoctor simply sucks in my opinion. He's a bobbing clown that vomits leaves.

If people keep this up my sig is going to be huge.

[Hideo]

I always hated trolls from Wc3 and WoW. WD is exactly like a troll.

I don't know the lore, but when I think about Necromancer i see: dark ages, holy inquisition, torture chambers, catacumbs, beautiful royal tombs, huge gothic cathedrals, alchemy, rotting corpses, undead, curses, poisons, de Sade, Dracula... gothic metal. O_o

When I think about Witch Doctor I see: dude from jungle who knows some herbs and itoxicates himself to mainpulate peasants from a local village. Dude who kills chickens to look scary. Dude who looks like a geriatric troll with Parkinson.

[korialstraz]

I don't see why so many people don't like the WD. He is like the pinacle of evolution withing the Diablo franchise right now!

Sure the barb is tall prud, magnificent loud mouthed, brute force, jumping and cleaving killing machine. But what else? It's just like the barb from D2 only with better graphical displays.

Now look at the WD. Sure he may be hunched and look strange, but which other class can summons pets, then use their own OFFENSIVE spells on them to ENHANCE their abilities in combat? And I'm sure this is just the beggining. IIRC the Mongrels can be enhanced with fire as well. Now imagine a Mongrel set on fire, running into a crowd of monsters, just to be exploded into a burst of magical energies and fire to everyone close to it? Now imagine 10 of those running into a pack of monsters! It's like recastable suicide bombers!

If that's what the barb so far has to compete with the future of that class looks grim. Especially when/if a pure caster class is implemented. Before bashing him because of the looks or him "replacing" the Necro, think about what he can offer. When is the last time you saw a Necro combine abilities like that into a deadly combo...?

Thought so...

/:rant:

[StreetShark]

The Witchdoctor is a joke of a choice for a new character in D3. Real truth concerning witch doctors is based around them doing the bidding of demons. They have no power over them, they are the pawns. This character can in no way correlate to the average blizzard gamers ideas of a hero he could somewhat see himself as. A hunched over black looking troll freak?! Yeah great idea blizzard, what a good choice for an interesting and popular character.

[Cdnexpat]

Where is the love???

I will miss the necro but the thing I liked the most about the necro was the fact he was so versitile. The witch doctor appears to be a versitile character. The necro was also original. I haven't seen a lot of jungle hobo characters before. (man what are my chances of getting that name now?) How he play in the game will affect how much i like him and I will definately play him in the game. I also hope they can keep battle net clean this time.

[Sequitur]

I don't know what I find more amusing.

Reading some of the most biased negativity I've ever seen.

OR

The fact that more than half of 'those' people will be gushing about how much the WD rocks when the game ships.


The latter, I think, heh..

[lazerlight]

This stupid Witch Doctor idea is going to lead to the first ever "Contraction Set" for a computer game...

"Buy the new Diablo III: King of Demolition contraction set today! Features include the removal of the Witch Doctor... and well, that's all."

It's going to be a best seller for sho.

[SmittySixTen]

This thread is still going strong?

You guys need to stop pissing about this. You act as though it is a personal shot against you and all you stand for, without even knowing if the necromancer is really axed or not.

Like I said, if it bothers you this much don't buy the game. If you still want to buy the game, then shut it. It's already tired and the announcement hasn't even been out a week.

[kontankarite]

Here's an idea: Instead of being negavite Nancys about the loss of a beloved class, how about embracing a new character model that'll have a whole new combination of skills that we've never tried before? And hating him simply because he's hunchbacked, grass skirt- and headdress-wearing, shoeless & primitive seems awfully racist to me.



Doooo whhaaaa? Did I just read someone insinuate that the people complaining about the WD was racist? Where has anyone said the WD being black was a problem? Explain that one?

Actually, since you want to say we seem racist, then are you insinuating that because he's an ancient black man, that he's expected to wear lame grass masks, bare foot, and be overtly tribal?

You are outta control, comrade.

[Beowulf]

Why do people always go crazy like this? Give it a chance, the wall of zombies looks cool as hell and strong then what the necro has. I am very open minded and willing to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt that they will release another great product.

[Mad Mantis]

Like I said, if it bothers you this much don't buy the game. If you still want to buy the game, then shut it.

Endless praise isn't the only proper reaction to the announcement of a videogame. Critique can be had as well.

[poroboszcz]

Imo all D2 classes were somehow epic. They were classes on their own. They could easily be imagined as heros taking a chance against most powerful mosters. And now in a world scale conflict between heaven and hell, to fight armies of creatures from hell and defeat the lords of evil themselvers, comes who? A witchdoctor? Oh come on!
This bloke is like some redneck from a village deep in the woods who's learned magick tricks from a local fortune-teller. Anything that is epic about this guy is fail.
I'm gonna PK these guys on sight!

[jtanwanteng]

You people who are judging without first playing are ridiculous.

When has Blizzard ever failed to deliver fun?

Every single person on this board will buy D3 and most likely love it. They will find 2 or three classes they like and play them to death.

[Mad Mantis]

You people who are judging without first playing are ridiculous.

Why? Because they have an opinion based on information released by Blizzard? Why should you wait before something is finished before you can offer critique?



When has Blizzard ever failed to deliver fun?

Who ever in these discussions said that DIII wouldn't be a fun game to play? All people are commenting on is whether or not they like the way a certain character class looks and feels. Hardly that the disappearance of the Necro, or the appearance of the WD has ruined the game for them.

[Ampersand]

And now in a world scale conflict between heaven and hell, to fight armies of creatures from hell and defeat the lords of evil themselvers, comes who? A witchdoctor? Oh come on!
This bloke is like some redneck from a village deep in the woods who's learned magick tricks from a local fortune-teller. Anything that is epic about this guy is fail.


Quite a narrow-minded view. I suggest you go play some more games and broaden it a bit. In many games classes with shaministic powers are quite the opposite of weak.

[LucianDK]

Personally I think its overreacting to say that they wont buy the game because the necro isnt there. I for one would not have expected to see ANY classes carrying over from d2 at all. Just like how it was from d1 to d2, all new iterations.

The witch doctory trolls where quite popular in WoW, and I foresee alot of people loving them picking up the witch doctor here.

[SmittySixTen]

Endless praise isn't the only proper reaction to the announcement of a videogame. Critique can be had as well.

I'm not hearing any "critiquing" going on. I'm hearing people whining that the Necromancer may not be in the game anymore. Now, if people had an honest problem with the Witch Doctor, after using him, then fine. Right now it's too soon to heavily critique beyond, "they should add or remove this aspect".

Like I said, that's not happening in here. What is happening in here is, "WTFZ I WANT A NECRO".

[Zarniwoop]

Then you're not reading smitty.

You've been here a long time, and I respect you. But, while I love the necromancer, not having a necromancer is not the root of my problem as listed. Believe as you wish.

[Stafir]

Actually Zarni..re-reading your origional post. Yes your entire problem is with loosing the necromancer. You are unhappy to see the Witchdoctor because he replaces the Necromancer. That is what you said in your origional post. You are unhappy the Necro, in your opinion, is not there anymore. You are unhappy that they chose the WD to replace him.


Now as an overall reply to the thread and not just one poster. I also do not understand this whole thing about wanting all of the old classes to return. And just have this game be Diablo III: We took II and gave you some new acts to play in. To a degree I do understand, I know the sorceress is going to be replaced..and I hate that. She was my fav class in Diablo II. I honestly do not expect to see a Sorcerer/Sorceress class in III, and while we will see something to fulfill the same basic role, I know it won't be the same. I'm personally surprised the Barb has returned...he is a strait warrior type, but I expected a new facelift.

But I honestly think too many people are just taking one look at the WD and not even a good one. They are just hurt over loosing their precious army of useless bones that die in one hit, overly nerfed CE, cannot kill a boss if their life depended on it, teeth of an old man throwing, pale faced, emo miscreant.

Did those all sound silly to you and just barely hanging onto a slight thread of truth? Yes? Good. Now all of you know how silly you sound when you try to make fun of the WD.

I personally welcome the WD, as I never expected to see a Necro, Amazon, Paladin, Druid, Sorceress, Assassin, or Barbarian again. And I actually enjoy his look..and the fact he can create a group of burning fire dogs...which was most interesting to watch in action.

[poroboszcz]

Quite a narrow-minded view. I suggest you go play some more games and broaden it a bit. In many games classes with shaministic powers are quite the opposite of weak.

So what? There can be games where witch doctor is next to god. I've just expressed my feelings about this class, as seen so far, in D3 context.

[Zarniwoop]

Yes and I updated with another post clarifying.

[Stafir]

And who reads later posts? Well I guess I do at times..but for the sake of it, just re-read it to refresh my memory..and all of your minuses against the WD seem....well, ill formed. And everything seems exaggerated about how bad he is. He dosn't seem that silly to me, he dosn't look that horrible, and his skills in the demo play looks to be unpolished, not poorly made. Also from the looks of how he is made, I don't think he is there to replace the necromancer..just from the early look. He has two summoning skills so far, both of them rather minor ones, and honestly I think of him as more a replacement for a pure druid than the necromancer, except not melee based. Elemental tree based on more nature looking attacks like a druid, minor summoning tree that creates a small number of things from nothing (like a druid..yes again). The big diff is that unlike the druid he has what looks to be a 'debuff tree'. His poison like attack (which is what the locust swarm seems more modeled after) even reminds me of the druids creepers...something that is summoned and poisons the enemy.

The gameplay of the WD looks half decent to me, at least from what I've seen, I like the fact you can buff your summons with your attack spells, the demo showed both the locust swarm and the firebomb being used (if you watch the high def version on gametrailers its easy to see..just never rightout talked about), and personally I'm wondering what else could be used.

I am looking forward to using him, I actually do enjoy the way he's made. But I have a slight fascination with all things tribal, to be honest.

[Telzen]

http://www.gamespot.com/video/930659/6193139/diablo-iii-interview


Most of the content is made. All the classes are done. All the content is done. It's just a matter of time. What you see is what you get. Sorry guys, looks like you're going to have to deal with the fact that the ones that made D3 still had a hard on for Warcraft.

Did you even watch your source? He even says that most of the content is not done. The classes are mostly done though.

[5zigen]

I agree with flux. People are just afraid of new things, and people whose favorite character was the necromancer don't want to see him gone. Which is understandable.

The thing that bothers me, is that people are changing their sadness for losing the necromancer and transposing it as hatred of the Witch Doctor.

I like the witch doctor. Zombies have long been part of the Voodoo lore, so I think it fits. I dont know why people are complaining that he isn't undeady enough, when he summons zombie dogs and zombie walls... With the whole, "enchant your summons with your spells" it's shaping up to look like he could have pretty interesting play implications.

As far as utility goes he's shaping up the exact same as the necromancer: A direct damage tree (we've seen 2 skills from there) A enemy debuffing tree (two skills from there too) and a summon tree (we've only seen 1 skill from this aspect).


All in all, It's just a kind of silly gripe. Because the character isn't pasty white with good posture and bad hair he sucks? I think the WD's looks is much much better than the necromancer ever was.


He did say the classes were basically done.

Actually he said they were all internally playable IIRC, which doesn't mean done. It does mean decided on in general though.

[Cdnexpat]

I'm not sure where this theme that the WD will be weak is coming from. The most powerful class and skills will be the ones that are picked to be the most powerful by Blizzard. There may be no apparent reason for this selection. Look at Blessed Hammer, it should be crap but it is great because it ignores all the immunes except one or two and it is the only magic spell that gets bonuses from an aura that is supposed to enhance physical damage. Now imagine if fire claws if it did normal damage to fire immunes, ignored other forms of fire resist and absorb and it's damage recieved an addictional boost for HOW. The realms would be filled with bears.

The WD skills will be as good or bad as Blizzard wants them to be. It they decide to make the WD the red headed stepson then he will be weak. If they want to want him to be the next hammerdin he will be that too.

[raveharu]

This is Diablo 3, so stop griping about what isn't the same as D2.

Accept the new changes.


I think the WD's looks is much much better than the necromancer ever was.

I agree, he looks much more formidable and nasty than the necromancer.

[Glurin]

The thing that bothers me, is that people are changing their sadness for losing the necromancer and transposing it as hatred of the Witch Doctor.


Or maybe we just don't like the WD regardless of whether or not he's replacing the necro.

[raveharu]

Or maybe we just don't like the WD regardless of whether or not he's replacing the necro.

well then don't play D3.

[Glurin]

well then don't play D3.

What kind of argument is that? There are other classes you know. The game is called "Diablo 3", not "Witchdoctor: The Dancing Idiot".

[Teleportation]

Personally I'm just glad they took away the necro. Now THAT was a ridiculous character.

On a side note, the WD looks awesome.

What kind of argument is that? There are other classes you know. The game is called "Diablo 3", not "Witchdoctor: The Dancing Idiot".

And you seem to think D2 was Necromancer:The withered old man.:whistling:

Guess what: It wasn't!

[Narc]

The principle of the Necromancer remains, there just seem to be slight tweaks here and there. Similar to that of a Diablo 1 Ranger (was it ranger?) turning into a Diablo 2 Amazon.

It almost seemed like Blizzard wanted to slightly tweak the class and when they looked back on what they had done, they didn't think what it was turning into was all that loyal to the original character design. Easiest solution? Renaming it.

[Zarniwoop]

I'm guessing D3 will just be a lot more streamlined.

As long as it maintains the depth of D2, and the difficulty, I will try to support whatever they come up with.

[korialstraz]

What kind of argument is that? There are other classes you know. The game is called "Diablo 3", not "Witchdoctor: The Dancing Idiot".

Then why not stop complaining so damn much about 1 char? It is only 1 char afterall, and there are other classes...

[lionheart]

Just give the poor guy a chance honestly. I personally enjoyed playing every single character in the two previous games.

[Glurin]

And you seem to think D2 was Necromancer:The withered old man.

FYI, I enjoyed several of the other charactors in D2, but the necromancer was always my favorite. The only one I didn't really enjoy overmuch was the paladin.




Then why not stop complaining so damn much about 1 char? It is only 1 char afterall, and there are other classes...

First of all, we don't know that he's gone. And second, because I can and will voice my opinion when I choose to do so. That's what we're here for, isn't it? To voice our opinions. Not to give blind and endless praise to the class that seemingly replaces one of the previous ones.

[LucianDK]

First of all, we don't know that he's gone. And second, because I can and will voice my opinion when I choose to do so. That's what we're here for, isn't it? To voice our opinions. Not to give blind and endless praise to the class that seemingly replaces one of the previous ones.

The game evolves. I was not happy to loose the Sorcerer from Diablo1 and getting a Sorceress instead. I liked the middle eastern style of the Vizjerei mages and the whole background with Horazon and Bartuc, and exploring a bit of history of the magocracy by finding the Arcane Sanctuary.

And these new female wannabe mages? Not my cup of tea, but I took them as a proper addition to the background of the world even if I never played them much.

But did I ***** and moan about it? No, the precise same case is happening here.

[Animation]

I am way late to the thread but I could not disagree with the original poster more. The Necromancer is my favorite D2 class and I'll miss him if he isn't in. However, I thought the Witchdoctor looked amazing, in terms of theme, powers, and effects. I thought the Witch Doctor totally blew the Barbarian away. If anything, the Barbarian fell a little flat since it just used all the popular skills he always used.

Bring on the Witchdoctor! YEAH!

Lewis

[Glurin]

Since when is offering up valid criticism "*****ing and moaning"?

[jasonmazzy]

looked neat to me!

[LucianDK]

Since when is offering up valid criticism "*****ing and moaning"?

I honestly haven't seen any serious point that really goes against the Witch Doctor.

[Cdnexpat]

I honestly haven't seen any serious point that really goes against the Witch Doctor.

I think the complaints about the locust animation are valid but yes a lot more whining and moaning than real complaints.

[MooCQ]

The moment this game pops onto storeshelves, Voodoo will take a strangle-hold and force all these naysayers into submission. This is utterly ridiculous, these transformations of character and name (yes, "Necromancer" is now known as "Witchdoctor") A hybrid of new skills.. and yet how strong people believe that this (contextually accurate - *hint* *hint* he's a SHAMAN- from Kurast?) avatar will somehow ruin gameplay.. give him a chance!

[Swiffer]

I never failed to be surprised how people can jump to conclusions about an entire class based on 8 minutes of video showing a small subset of his abilities.

Simply amazing.

[Ethika]

OOMJUBAAA!

Man the Doc is gonna be so much fun.

Basicaly there is a chance there won't be a Necro in Diablo 3 so lots of Necro lovers release their frustration on a class they believe is replacing him.

Do you honestly think the developers of Diablo 3 sat down together and said "lets just replace classes from Diablo 2"?

THE WITCH DOCTOR IS NOT THE NECRO IT IS THE WITCH DOCTOR!

[Psycroptic]

I agree with the OP. I like everything about the game so far except the Witch Doctor. This is Diablo, we do not want Warcraft characters, thanks. Even if that isn't bad enough, his skills so far are boring. Fire bombs that look and play like fulmination potions from D2? Locust Swarm which in effect is Poison Cloud? Summon Wolf...i mean mongrel?Necro curses? Zombie wall is a cool idea but looks terrible at the moment.

The WD just doesn't fit in with the Diablo world, for some reason. And,he isn't bringing anything new to the table. So what is the point? To make warcraft players feel at home?

[Ethika]

We have not seen any curses from the WD yet.

Witch doctors do not originate from Warcraft.

Fire Bomb is a great alchemical skill.

Locust Swarm is as much a poison cloud as it is a chain lightning.

Summon Mongrel is also great, an undead non-pedigree canine.

The Doctor fits in as much as any class, read some lore.

[Psycroptic]

We have not seen any curses from the WD yet.

Witch doctors do not originate from Warcraft.

Fire Bomb is a great alchemical skill.

Locust Swarm is as much a poison cloud as it is a chain lightning.

Summon Mongrel is also great, an undead non-pedigree canine.

The Doctor fits in as much as any class, read some lore.

We saw at least 2 curses from the WD in the gameplay movie.

Witch Doctors were in the warcraft world a long time ago. Now they are in Diablo. So as far as Diablo is concerned, WD's originate from Warcraft.

Firebombs looks and plays like fulminating potions.

Yes, Locust Swarm is like a slow chain lightning. Thanks for reinforcing my point that the WD brings nothing new to the game.

Summon mongrel is identical to summon wolf. It is that simple.

I don't need to be a diablo lore nerd to say that in my opinion, the WD doesn't feel right as a character class, and is bringing nothing new to the game.

[Ampersand]

Witch Doctors were in the warcraft world a long time ago. Now they are in Diablo. So as far as Diablo is concerned, WD's originate from Warcraft.


There were witch doctors in Diablo 2 you know....or close enough at least. Just because he's named 'Witch Doctor' doesn't mean he's exactly like the one in WC3.

[Psycroptic]

There were witch doctors in Diablo 2 you know....or close enough at least. Just because he's named 'Witch Doctor' doesn't mean he's exactly like the one in WC3.

Not playable ones. Obviously i've been through the flayer jungle, but what next....a playable stygian doll? That would be mega cool though.

And the WD in D3, at the moment, is about as close to the warcraft/wow WD's as you can get.

But wait....a playable stygian doll or succubus wouldn't attract nearly as much interest from war3/wow players, would it? Call me cynical, i know...

[Ethika]

We saw at least 2 curses from the WD in the gameplay movie.

Witch Doctors were in the warcraft world a long time ago. Now they are in Diablo. So as far as Diablo is concerned, WD's originate from Warcraft.

Firebombs looks and plays like fulminating potions.

Yes, Locust Swarm is like a slow chain lightning. Thanks for reinforcing my point that the WD brings nothing new to the game.

Summon mongrel is identical to summon wolf. It is that simple.

I don't need to be a diablo lore nerd to say that in my opinion, the WD doesn't feel right as a character class, and is bringing nothing new to the game.

We saw two spells, both of the hypnosis/mesmer variety, not curses.

Witch Doctors are not from Warcraft, your logic is poor.

Fire Bomb is a direct damage fire spell, you can compare it to thousands of others from RPG's if you like.

Locust Swarm is new and unique.

Summon Mongrel is not the same as summon wolf, clearly the mongrel is far more diverse from what we have seen.

Your opnion is accepted but I'm sure most fans would disagree.

[Pyratheon]

Be a lover, not a hater. :thumbup:

See how it turns out we haven't seen all of it yet, and maybe theres another class you'll like, after all, do you like all the classes in d2?

[korialstraz]

First of all, we don't know that he's gone. And second, because I can and will voice my opinion when I choose to do so. That's what we're here for, isn't it? To voice our opinions. Not to give blind and endless praise to the class that seemingly replaces one of the previous ones.

I've been trying to say all the time that the WD does not replace the Necro and that the Nec may not be gone, but all the naysayers is whining about how the WD replaced the Nec and how he sucks so much.

It's is to voice your opinion, but an opinion about a class that goes along the lines of "OMgz sucks! Bring teh nec back plx!" shouldn't even be allowed to be posted on this or any other forum (except maybe on jsp).


Since when is offering up valid criticism "*****ing and moaning"?

I've not seen any valid points from any of the naysayers in this thread. Not one.


I think the complaints about the locust animation are valid but yes a lot more whining and moaning than real complaints.

They are not valid, since the animation is most likely not finished, and it will be tweaked or improved. But if it isn't it just comes down to personal taste. You can say it's a valid point against the WD, I can say it is for the WD, since personally that char looks like a kick *** char.


Yes, Locust Swarm is like a slow chain lightning. Thanks for reinforcing my point that the WD brings nothing new to the game.

It looks more like a castable rabies spell imo :scratchchin:



I don't need to be a diablo lore nerd to say that in my opinion, the WD doesn't feel right as a character class, and is bringing nothing new to the game.

If you don't think the WD adds anything new to the game then go and whatch the game play video again. Did you eve see a char in D2 enchanting their own pets...?

...That's what I thought.

[Glurin]

Locust Swarm is new and unique.

Druid's rabies.


Summon Mongrel is not the same as summon wolf, clearly the mongrel is far more diverse from what we have seen.

How so?




I've not seen any valid points from any of the naysayers in this thread. Not one.

Then you haven't been paying attention.


If you don't think the WD adds anything new to the game then go and whatch the game play video again. Did you eve see a char in D2 enchanting their own pets...?

And that's about it so far.

[Mad Mantis]

I've not seen any valid points from any of the naysayers in this thread. Not one.

And yet there have been some decent points. I admit that it is easy to read over them through some of the more unconstructive posts (by both sides of the argument), but they are there.




Did you eve see a char in D2 enchanting their own pets...?

...That's what I thought.

That is a new gameplay device. Give that to any of the old classes and it will still be equally new. That is not something that you need the WD for.

[Ethika]

Glurin, you please explain how Locust Swarm is the Druids Rabies attack.

A mongrel is far more diverse than a wolf because it can be detonated and enchanted with fire or locusts and probably more that we haven't seen.

Your logic implies Poison Nova is just Nova, Meteor is just Fireball et cetera, how can you honestly believe Locust Swarm is even similar to Rabies?

[Psycroptic]

I'm going to make a Witch Doctor in D2 today. It will be a druid that uses fulminating potions and rabies. Hell should be a breeze :yes:

[korialstraz]

Then you haven't been paying attention.

As far as I remember most "valid" points made is that the necro has some skills resembling the necro and druid, he is ugly and he "stole" the necro spot. Call them valid if you want, but I don't see that as a valid argument.

Ofc I can't say all those that like the WD have made good points either, but at least we (mostly) have a good reason for liking the new char.



And that's about it so far.

So far... And if that's all the combination of spells/abilities we get, I will admit I'm going to be dissappointed.


And yet there have been some decent points. I admit that it is easy to read over them through some of the more unconstructive posts (by both sides of the argument), but they are there.



If you read above you know the answer to this as well >_>



That is a new gameplay device. Give that to any of the old classes and it will still be equally new. That is not something that you need the WD for.

Well it wasn't given to any of the old classes, since it's just that, old classes and old games. Neither do i think we need the WD for bringing in something new like combining spells, and I sure hope other classes will be able to do that as well.

[Pyratheon]

I really enjoy the fire bomb animation too. Bursts of fire with a flaming soul erupting from it.

[Mad Mantis]

As far as I remember most "valid" points made is that the necro has some skills resembling the necro and druid, he is ugly and he "stole" the necro spot. Call them valid if you want, but I don't see that as a valid argument.

That he resembles the Necro and has similar skills is what made people regard him as the replacement of the Necromancer. For some that was all the problems they had with the concept of the WD class. Most of these posts do tend to involve a lot of whining.

However there are also people who question the concept and execution of the WD on a different level. They wonder whether the artistic direction taken with the WD would fit into the established look of Sanctuary. Whether the concept of the WD as a whole fits into what we know of Sanctuary. There has also been critique on the animations for some of the spells we have seen so far. Yes, you can group this in the category "the WD is ugly", but you'd not be giving the arguments made the proper attention. Similarly you could say that all the praise for the WD boils down to "he is new".

[Falconetti]

I will be so pissed if they leave out the rock´n roll necro in D3. I want white hair, pale skin and a leather jacket!

[Frank_the_tank]

I somewhat agree that the WD for different reasons felt less interesting than the successfully revamp barbarian, which from what has been shown so far looks kickass.

Even though the WD resembles the necro I think it's a bit early to make conclusions as to the necro being cut out of the game, let alone get pissed off 'bout it. The following has been said by Blizzard regarding new vs. old classes in the gameplay video:

"The Barbarian was the easy one for us, because he's one of the few classes that's coming over into the new game".

That being said I think its safe to say that among the three classes yet to be revealed two will be new and one will be old story. Now Blizzard know the necro was a popular choice and probably the most unique experience. Don't lose hope just yet.

[dynamitekid]

I like what I've seen of the witch doctor so far. I'm a fan of the necromancer class from DII but I think I'll have fun playing a WD too. I'm just happy that DIII is in development. :)

[SmittySixTen]

However there are also people who question the concept and execution of the WD on a different level. They wonder whether the artistic direction taken with the WD would fit into the established look of Sanctuary. Whether the concept of the WD as a whole fits into what we know of Sanctuary.

So basically, Act 3 in Diablo II should never have been included? Don't get me wrong, I hate trying to find my way through that blasted jungle, but it's not like we have never see anything like the Witch Doctor in a Diablo game before. The entire act pretty much screams that something like a Witch Doctor could very well exist in one of the jungles of Sanctuary.

Now, if it is the artistic direction you are concerned about, that's not the Witch Doctor, it's Diablo III as a whole that has changed. That said, if the new art style is a problem, then why is everyone in this thread directing their issues at the Witch Doctor? Simply put, the people complaining (that's really what it is) are using the art as a crutch to try and validate whining.

I stand by what I said. People aren't upset about the Witch Doctor, or continuity issues, or the art direction. They are pissed that the Necromancer might not be in Diablo III.

[Mad Mantis]

So basically, Act 3 in Diablo II should never have been included?

That is not what I said. Nor is this particular point one that troubles me. It was however brought up in one of the threads.



Now, if it is the artistic direction you are concerned about, that's not the Witch Doctor, it's Diablo III as a whole that has changed.

Diablo as a whole has changed, but there is still a difference between the direction of the entire game and the direction a single character takes.



That said, if the new art style is a problem, then why is everyone in this thread directing their issues at the Witch Doctor?

Maybe because so far the only part of the overall direction people are not happy about is the WD? Maybe because this is the WD subforum and talking about the WD is appropriate?



Simply put, the people complaining (that's really what it is) are using the art as a crutch to try and validate whining.

According to you. People can really find the art and animation of the WD to be disappointing. There is a lot of whining going on, but that is coming from both sides of the argument.



I stand by what I said. People aren't upset about the Witch Doctor, or continuity issues, or the art direction. They are pissed that the Necromancer might not be in Diablo III.

That could very well be the case for some, or for most. But that is ignoring some of the problems that people have that do not come from disappointment about the disappearance of the Necromancer.

[Thyiad]

I'm in the wrong thread, I know but ... I like the witch doctor.

Come on guys, what's the point of having D3 with exactly the same characters? Yes, I know the Barb is back but that's one class. You seriously can't expect to have every single one back!

He's in the demo, I doubt Blizzard will dump him, enjoy his purply-greeness (which I think is quite fetching). :)

[5zigen]

I dont see what the gripes are all about. I think everyone is just upset that the undead guy isnt pale and white?

He looks pretty human and very cool to me

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/Guygin/D3/WitchDoc.jpg

Way better than the necromancer concept did.

[Sequitur]

Imo all D2 classes were somehow epic. They were classes on their own. They could easily be imagined as heros taking a chance against most powerful mosters. And now in a world scale conflict between heaven and hell, to fight armies of creatures from hell and defeat the lords of evil themselvers, comes who? A witchdoctor? Oh come on!
This bloke is like some redneck from a village deep in the woods who's learned magick tricks from a local fortune-teller. Anything that is epic about this guy is fail.
I'm gonna PK these guys on sight!

I lol'd.

Epic characters? Fair enough statement. All the classes were great in D2. But if you're going to set up the Witchdocter in such a negative light, of course he's going to sound lame. Let me try...

Necromancer? Oh come on! This decrepit, wrinkly old fart obviously got stuck in the 80's, and probably learned necromancy by staring at his frail, dilapidated body and thinking, "Crikey! If I can walk and talk, then surely I can make other nearly lifeless, crusty pieces of meat to do the same thing"

Sound epic?

(my first toon was a Necro, but I'm not on the 'Bring back the NECRO!!1!' bandwagon)

[killerbear]

huh i still dont get it why dont you like the wiych docter

[Verashiden]

Cus he's too epic to handle ;)

[SmittySixTen]

That is not what I said. Nor is this particular point one that troubles me. It was however brought up in one of the threads.

Actually, in your last post you yourself said this:


However there are also people who question the concept and execution of the WD on a different level. They wonder whether the artistic direction taken with the WD would fit into the established look of Sanctuary. Whether the concept of the WD as a whole fits into what we know of Sanctuary.

You go on to say that this argument is not getting the proper attention. I was pointing out that it's not really a valid argument, because Kurast is proof that Sanctuary does, in fact, have environments that would be plausible for a Witch Doctor. I was simply responding to issues you raised, to show that they really shouldn't be considered issues.


Diablo as a whole has changed, but there is still a difference between the direction of the entire game and the direction a single character takes.

Fair enough. My counter to that would be that we do not know enough about either to make a sound judgment on how well either concept (the direction in which the game is taking and that of the Witch Doctor) is being pulled off. So, again, the argument doesn't really hold water--at least not at this time.


Maybe because so far the only part of the overall direction people are not happy about is the WD? Maybe because this is the WD subforum and talking about the WD is appropriate?

There's actually a petition to get the art work changed back to a more classic Diablo feel. I wish I had the link handy right now, but I don't. Anyway, the reason I bring it up is because a number of people are not happy with the art as a whole. However, the only part that people in this thread seem to have a problem with is the Witch Doctor. I'm not saying it's an "all or nothing" sort of thing, but it is pretty odd that people is AOK with the new art style, until a new character comes along that might oust the Necromancer.


According to you. People can really find the art and animation of the WD to be disappointing. There is a lot of whining going on, but that is coming from both sides of the argument.

I'd tend to respectfully disagree on that statement. The people defending the Witch Doctor seem to be more expressing exasperation. I'll grant that I may be biased, all things considered, but it does seem like the bulk of anti-Witch Doctor posts have been in the form of a complaint, rather than a thought out argument as to why the character is sub-par.


That could very well be the case for some, or for most. But that is ignoring some of the problems that people have that do not come from disappointment about the disappearance of the Necromancer.

Again, those concerns were addressed. The Witch Doctor fits in with Sanctuary, and he's right up the ally for the new art direction. However, it's still incredibly early yet, and my opinion may change. Right now, though, I honestly do not think there is anything that warrants this sort of reaction. He could very well turn out to be a disaster, but not even giving the guy a chance (or Blizzard) hardly sets people up with open minds.

[Glurin]

The people defending the Witch Doctor seem to be more expressing exasperation.

Seems to me that most of them are just convinced that new = better. They can't understand why replacing a character that has a particular style and theme with something that is essentially the complete opposite would upset anybody.

[Mad Mantis]

You go on to say that this argument is not getting the proper attention. I was pointing out that it's not really a valid argument, because Kurast is proof that Sanctuary does, in fact, have environments that would be plausible for a Witch Doctor. I was simply responding to issues you raised, to show that they really shouldn't be considered issues.

Fair enough. I think I didn't quite grasp what you meant in your previous post concerning this.



My counter to that would be that we do not know enough about either to make a sound judgment on how well either concept (the direction in which the game is taking and that of the Witch Doctor) is being pulled off.

We will not know anything for certain until we play the game. I don't see that as a reason to hold back making judgements. We can respond to the material that Blizz released so far because apparently they consider that material fit for representing the class. It might be that things change in context when more is shown, but we will see that when we get more material.



I'm not saying it's an "all or nothing" sort of thing, but it is pretty odd that people is AOK with the new art style, until a new character comes along that might oust the Necromancer.

Well, I think I am one of those people. When it comes to the new art style, I'm less than thrilled. I don't like the green and blue lighting that we have seen so far and I fear that they may be going to WC-side of things a bit too much. I'd like to see that change a bit to be more, and I'll use the tired word, gritty. But the world art doesn't matter to me as much as the character art. The animations and style for the characters are what you will be seeing a lot of over the course of the game. There will be enough variations in the world art that I don't think it will be as big a distraction as poor character art it.

When I look at the concept art for the WD and take a look at other popular depictions of WD's they could have gone for a darker look. I don't mean without color, but with the light purples and light blue he looks more happy than someone to fear. His animations also leave things to be desired. I'm not happy about the Locust Swarm, Mass Confusion and Soul Harvest animations as I find them to be lackluster and unimpressive. My point being that with some small changes to art and animations the WD could be so much more than he is at this point.

[korialstraz]

That he resembles the Necro and has similar skills is what made people regard him as the replacement of the Necromancer. For some that was all the problems they had with the concept of the WD class. Most of these posts do tend to involve a lot of whining.

However there are also people who question the concept and execution of the WD on a different level. They wonder whether the artistic direction taken with the WD would fit into the established look of Sanctuary. Whether the concept of the WD as a whole fits into what we know of Sanctuary. There has also been critique on the animations for some of the spells we have seen so far. Yes, you can group this in the category "the WD is ugly", but you'd not be giving the arguments made the proper attention. Similarly you could say that all the praise for the WD boils down to "he is new".

The only thing I can relate to the necro is that undead wall which don't really reflect the Necro either. To me all the whining is the barb is back but not Necro and since only the barb and WD has been announced they will whine of how the WD replaced the Necro.

Well how can he not fit in? It's a world filled with magic, monsters, demon and angels, but somehow a Witch Doctor won't fit in? Well if they don't believe so then Blizzard surely does. They've invented a background story for the char to fit into Sanctuary, so it's just a question about people accepting that there is a Witch Doctor, since it's part of the game and lore.

[Mad Mantis]

The only thing I can relate to the necro is that undead wall which don't really reflect the Necro either.

So far we have seen curses, a type of corpse explosion, the summoning of minions, crowd control via walls and a direct elemental damage spells. He seems geared towards using minions, debuffs and blockades as crowd control while doing damage via spells. The same type of job that the Necro has. He could have had no undead connection whatsoever and he would still fall within the roll the Necromancer had in DII.



Well how can he not fit in? It's a world filled with magic, monsters, demon and angels, but somehow a Witch Doctor won't fit in?

This would go to the verisimilitude of the world. Sure it is a world filled with magic, but a magical pink pony princess would definitely be out of place.

[Brother Laz]

Necromancers are out because corpses go flying. This means no reliable corpse spells, therefore no necromancers. Fini.

As for him fitting into the world: there was a time in D1 when the only religion was Zakarum. Are amazons and necromancers out of place? How about that one character with the shuriken gun and tesla/napalm turrets? Of course, I can understand there has never been a shaman in the game that can resurrect minions and throw fireballs... wait.

The witchdoctor is fine provided they lose the WoW-like bright purple and green.

[korialstraz]

So far we have seen curses, a type of corpse explosion, the summoning of minions, crowd control via walls and a direct elemental damage spells. He seems geared towards using minions, debuffs and blockades as crowd control while doing damage via spells. The same type of job that the Necro has. He could have had no undead connection whatsoever and he would still fall within the roll the Necromancer had in DII.

They are kind of like curses but not. IIRC when the "curse" was cast there was an animation over the head of the WD, and any creature within a certain range seemed to be scared away. Imo more like one of those totems from the barb, only portable.

I can see how the corpse explosion like spell can be related, but then again it isn't cast on corpses and so far have only been shown used on Mongrels.

Remember that druid summons minions as well, and the Ama and Assa are able to summon a minon as well. Not as many, but 1 strong, which is still a minion. In this case it looks more like the Druid.

The wall looks more like something to weaken a char on it's way towards you. Sure in the game video it killed everything with 1 hit, or so it seemed, but I don't think it will be that strong when the game is released. Keep in mind they may have tampered with the game as they did with that chest dropping all those pieces of armor.

So to me it looks more like "portable totems" from the barb for those debuffs, wall of zombie (simila to bone wall), Mongrels (Druids wolfs) and locust swarm (castable rabies). So it's just as much druid and some barb imo than Necro.



This would go to the verisimilitude of the world. Sure it is a world filled with magic, but a magical pink pony princess would definitely be out of place.

I agree, but I have yet to see this in game. (http://www.amazon.com/Barbie-Magic-Pegasus-Cloud-Princess/dp/B00080AQFQ) Imo the WD looks more like this, (http://www.blizzard.com/diablo3/characters/witchdoctor.xml) but who am I to say what others think it looks like or not? :whistling:

[Smash]

I will just quote myself from other topic.


I don't see anything interesting in WD so far some of his skill like fire bomb and mass confusion are rip from d2, his monguls pets looked weak just see how long they needed too take this buffalo down compared to others WD spell they weren't to deadly. Casting buff on lets say 15 pets can be very tiring but idea is good. Wall of zombies are great spell but i hope there will be some intelligent monsters too which don't rash so stupidly on this wall.

[Kiroptus]

When I look at the concept art for the WD and take a look at other popular depictions of WD's they could have gone for a darker look. I don't mean without color, but with the light purples and light blue he looks more happy than someone to fear.

Exactly. Certainly the WD concept has potential to be far more sinister than the necromancer himself, but the way he is done now I just dont see that happening. He looks cool on the Diablo 3 page but when I see him in the gameplay video... Im sorry but when I look at him like that, with all those purple feathers, I think about something silly from the brazilian carnival:

http://www.emiliano.com/Performing%20in%20the%20San%20Francisco%20Carnaval %20Parade.jpg

When he had the potential to be something gritty, disturbing and scary as the natives in Peter Jackson's King Kong:

http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2005_King_Kong/005KKG_Jacinta_Wawatai_004.jpg
http://www.hotflick.net/flicks/2005_King_Kong/005KKG_Vicky_Haughton_002.jpg

[AxlStrife]

In defense of the purple/gold/vivid-colored design: In nature, bright colors on animals in jungles are usually warning signs of poison or of dangerous creatures (poison arrow frogs), or is used as a bluff (butterflies, particularly the Viceroy). The Witch Doctor would emulate this behavior since he is in tune with nature and the cycle of life and death, mainly to ward off intruders and to intimidate his foes. If you were in out in the field, wouldn't you be scared of some freaky, hunchbacked, animal-emulating man wearing a weird mask, shouting in tongs, and conjuring up voodoo?

[Hellbane]

In defense of the purple/gold/vivid-colored design: In nature, bright colors on animals in jungles are usually warning signs of poison or of dangerous creatures (poison arrow frogs), or is used as a bluff (butterflies, particularly the Viceroy). The Witch Doctor would emulate this behavior since he is in tune with nature and the cycle of life and death, mainly to ward off intruders and to intimidate his foes. If you were in out in the field, wouldn't you be scared of some freaky, hunchbacked, animal-emulating man wearing a weird mask, shouting in tongs, and conjuring up voodoo?

Also, he's not busy scaring people, he's slaughtering assorted hellspawn and demons using the ways and traditions of his people. He's not in a K1 fight or something.

[AxlStrife]

Also, he's not busy scaring people, he's slaughtering assorted hellspawn and demons using the ways and traditions of his people. He's not in a K1 fight or something.

I don't know if you're agreeing with me or not.

[Mad Mantis]

Imo more like one of those totems from the barb, only portable.

That was only for Horrify. Mass Confusion was cast at range, just like Confuse.



So to me it looks more like "portable totems" from the barb for those debuffs, wall of zombie (simila to bone wall), Mongrels (Druids wolfs) and locust swarm (castable rabies). So it's just as much druid and some barb imo than Necro.

The Druid also had a similar role as the Necro. Only they gave him Shifting instead of debuffs. That is the point where the two diverged and what really separated them. That and the meager amount of summons a Druid had.

The WD doesn't look like he has this diverging skill tree yet. He may get it, he may not. I still think that both serve a similar role. But that might just be something that we will have to disagree on.




I agree, but I have yet to see this in game. (http://www.amazon.com/Barbie-Magic-Pegasus-Cloud-Princess/dp/B00080AQFQ)

That would make a great boss.

[5zigen]

Exactly. Certainly the WD concept has potential to be far more sinister than the necromancer himself, but the way he is done now I just dont see that happening. He looks cool on the Diablo 3 page but when I see him in the gameplay video... Im sorry but when I look at him like that, with all those purple feathers, I think about something silly from the brazilian carnival:

http://www.emiliano.com/Performing%20in%20the%20San%20Francisco%20Carnaval %20Parade.jpg


You're really stretching if you think he looks like that:

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/Guygin/D3/WitchDoc.jpg

[SmittySixTen]

Let me throw this possibility out there, to everyone who feels there cannot be a necromancer because the Witch Doctor has similar skills.

What if Blizzard intends to incorporate combo moves performed between two or more classes? This would set up the Witch Doctor and Necromancer for some pretty sick combo action right off the bat.

Just thought I'd throw that out there.

[Kiroptus]

You're really stretching if you think he looks like that:

http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm102/Guygin/D3/WitchDoc.jpg

That one is fine, im refering to the carnival-alike feather costume that the wd uses on the gameplay video.

[a brick]

I think the problem in this thread is that no one is even listening to each others ideas... i think both sides have some valid points but you people need to open your eyes! please, its ridiculous that you all are quibbling like two years olds and having tantrums cus ur not getting ur way!

I have always thought of this site as a place filled with smart ppl open to new ideas, critiques, and help from others. but this thread has killed a lot of that feeling for me... :(

First off, why is pretty much everyone assuming that blizzard created the witch doctor only to replace the necro?! This class is new and different... but ill get into that a little later. i think everyone only is hating the WD cus the barbarian was brought back, but so far the only similarities we KNOW OF FOR SURE, which people are NOT basing most of their opinions on, is the name, barbarian, and that he has wirlwind. The barbarian is a great concept! so why get rid of it...? and WD haters have a point there, necro is so original and so great, which i agree with, so why not bring it back just add more! the answer is BLIZZARD JUST DECIDED NOT TO!

and by the way u cant base opinions about what is unknown, theyre not valid. i think it was mad mantis who said we are basing some of the opinion on what we do know, which is good and true. but most of the WD haters arent...

I personally think it is a new and innovative thing to the diablo series. why do u base opinions off another product, wow, which is and always has been different. the idea of a WD might not be new to wow, but it is to diablo which is what we're playing here remember?

now for what we know about the which doctor and the classes of D2:

first off and most importantly imo, the WD and the necro are different. I mean, u freaking try to make a character class that is COMPLETELY unique and unrelated to any other rpg, which is what some seem to be asking for... there are only so many things that ppl can come up with SO THERE IS GOING TO BE SOME CROSSOVER!!! all i gotta say is, why the hell do u think all rpgs are kinda related?! cus there is only so much fantasy to work...
mongrels: they are a summon, just like in any other rpg...why do u automatically relate it to druids and say OH theyre copying it cus blizzard isnt creative. just cus it sort of resembles a dog means its copying? no. if he summoned a hulking four legged beast then youd all say omg grizzly right there! the WD haters cant say its copying when it isnt, u just assume they are just copying ideas from d2 to d3.
locusts: i honestly think this is hella cool. im imagining (note the imagining, or dreaming if you will) that at a higher level skill will be a massive armada of locusts that swarm from all directions and devour everything! how do u guys know its going to not be good looking? its okay to say "from what ive seen so far i dont like it much". but ppl are just flat out saying it sucks
firebomb: omg more copying...no not really... it goes with the theme of the character and there are only so many elements to work with, and fire was one they chose! its not COPYING it just happens to be a crossover from d2. i dont think theyre basing too much from d2 on the new characters, they are creating new things that might happen to be related, except the barb which they are renewing and making i think a hell of a lot cooler, the old age suits him i think :). the mastery of fighting = old age but still huge as hell.

In summary, you try to come up with a class that is COMPLETELY unique to everything and has very little relations, i wana see how far u get... And everyone here needs to open their eyes and look at what others are saying, cus some ppl are making valid points on both sides. And i know you are all just excited for d3 and expect a spectacular game, which is fine, and seems to be fueling all the aggression here, but have a "wait and see" attitude. the game developer who gave his points said that designers take what they have that wont give away the game. so WD might have looked stupid and ape-like, yes, and the barbarian just looks like a completely physical bafoon who likes breaking things. but they did exactly what they wanted to do: not give away the game! please everyone just think about the possibilities! im thinking of the barbarian using, cus i read somewhere they draw power from animal spirits (i could be wrong but i remember that) things like Lion's Roar, which is like the battle cries in that it gives bonuses, but is different at the same time!

Everyone, please, just think about the potential for diablo 3 and not make assumptions on something that was purposefully designed to not give anything important or revealing away.

[lionheart]

And what do you think all these poeple will do until the game comes out if they dont fight with each other about trivial reasons??

ps. im with you on this ;)

[Leugi]

Agreed with a brick.

Something that annoys me is that people whine that is too WC related...

Warcraft 2's trolls weren't even a tiny bit voodoist, and I'm pretty sure that when those blue trolls appeared in wc3 all people were like "what the ****! where did they take that from, it doesn't fit the warcraft universe!!!" so basically saying "Witch Doctor" shouldn't directly mean "Rip off from Warcraft", I mean the idea was probably taken from our world after all, it weren't trolls who invented voodoo.

Another thing I dislike is that they say "they made the witch doctor so wc3 and wow fans would play the game". I'm a Wc3 player, and still I loved D2, particularly the Druid and the Necromancer and I just don't see how it will be more appealing to me to play Diablo with a Witch Doctor just because it's like those blue trolls.

I actually like the Witch Doctor as it is going, I don't see it as a novice necromancer or as a fake druid... I see it as a Witch Doctor. It may have similar skills, but guess what, no matter what you do original skills are not so easy to make. WoW has a plenty of Diablo's skills too and no one suicided for that. And it does suit Diablo's world, because of Kuraast.

Another of the points was that the Necromancer was the antagonist character. I know this will sound odd, but that's something I didn't like much of the Necro, and on the other hand I also hated the fact that the paladin was so biased as a holy hero (although I do enjoy playing as a paladin). I believe that a sorceress, an amazon and a barbarian don't have real alignments, you choose whether they can be antagonist or heroes, while a necromancer or paladin didn't have that facility. Which is why I believe a witch doctor was a good idea to create this dicotomy (and if the Necro leaves so should the paladin (it would be interesting to have some kind of enchanted warrior that is not necessarily related to holyness)). But of course that's my opinion.

Also, there are great arguments in this thread, but most of them are not heard.

[Crazygeorge]

One can argue that so far one of the most versatile and intresting classes has been removed, being replaced with a hybrid while the most mundane and uninteresting class was kept and fine-tuned. Perhaps people get very worked up with a game or even get attached to it, hence the fanaticism. On the other side of the spectrum you have what I like to call 'the zealots' that follow the company line blindly, up to a point of wondering if they are actually affiliated with the developer at all.

Personally I'll sit on the fence and wait till the final game is released which I'm speculating will be in about 18 months time.. I'll have to admit though that this Witch Doctor's playstyle and artistic approach doesn't seem appealing at this point. Perhaps as a comic relief character it can be fun to play because at its current state -wildly speculating with the info that we've got so far- . Almost each and every archetype spell is thrown in there hoping to make the class appealing whilst the artistic approach feels out of place.

As for counter-arguments, the sole 'it's a new class' doesn't hold much water, as well as the 'if you don't like it go play D2' 5-year old approach. The same can be said about a few criticizing arguments though.

Keep in mind that there's a new engine and perhaps the Witch Doctor is the only viable minion/summoning/debuffing class at the moment.

Perhaps this game is more of a serious matter to a few people out there than it should.

Let's just wait 18 months and see what they come up with :thumbup:

[AxlStrife]

One can argue that so far one of the most versatile and intresting classes has been removed, being replaced with a hybrid while the most mundane and uninteresting class was kept and fine-tuned. Perhaps people get very worked up with a game or even get attached to it, hence the fanaticism. On the other side of the spectrum you have what I like to call 'the zealots' that follow the company line blindly, up to a point of wondering if they are actually affiliated with the developer at all.

Personally I'll sit on the fence and wait till the final game is released which I'm speculating will be in about 18 months time.. I'll have to admit though that this Witch Doctor's playstyle and artistic approach doesn't seem appealing at this point. Perhaps as a comic relief character it can be fun to play because at its current state -wildly speculating with the info that we've got so far- . Almost each and every archetype spell is thrown in there hoping to make the class appealing whilst the artistic approach feels out of place.

As for counter-arguments, the sole 'it's a new class' doesn't hold much water, as well as the 'if you don't like it go play D2' 5-year old approach. The same can be said about a few criticizing arguments though.

Keep in mind that there's a new engine and perhaps the Witch Doctor is the only viable minion/summoning/debuffing class at the moment.

Perhaps this game is more of a serious matter to a few people out there than it should.

Let's just wait 18 months and see what they come up with

And crying about the Necro not returning on the basis of a dislike of aesthetic properties is better? I've already posted the similarities in flavor as far as Sanctuary is concerned and I don't feel like bringing it here unless someone ask for it, and I've even presented a possible explanation of the artistic style of the Witch doctor a few posts back.

The "5-year old approach" that if people want to play the Necro Play D2 is a response to what I just said and is on the same level as arguing over flavor. It's tough to judge the full play style of the Witch Doctor from watching about 10 minutes of game play. To me, it look like it plays very much like the Necromancer.

If it weren't for bringing the Barbarian back and for the 'weird' look of the Witch Doctor, people would most likely not be showing such an outcry. I heard the same arguments about the Druid (the mishmash of a bunch of characters into one, the forced flavor of him), but overall he was still well-received. Why should the Witch Doctor be any different?

[lionheart]

Simply cause they have to find something to hate on :whistling:

[Sein Schatten]

Simply cause they have to find something to hate on :whistling:

I hate this thread...
what? :crazyeyes:

[lionheart]

I hate this thread...
what? :crazyeyes:


That actually would be a huge improvement :grin:

[Ammareddo_Fritter]

What's strange is that the WD contradicts Blizzards defense about making the game look "happy" to people who don't like the art. Blizzard said they wanted to make the game feel scary & creepy without resorting to bland, drab, dingy colors & gritty textures. They want to give the game a feeling based on it's other content. I quote the WD:

"Oooga booga." Madly atmospheric, yeah?

And why would Diablo fans want to find fault with the game they've been waiting years for? Because it isn't as good as they feel it should be? That's not a valid reason for disappointment?

[5zigen]

A lot of people are averse to change.

When D2 was coming out people hated on the the necromancer a lot. Saying he didn't fit in with the whole system. Eventually people accepted and many people learned to love him.

I have no reason to think that the WD will be any different.

[lionheart]

What's strange is that the WD contradicts Blizzards defense about making the game look "happy" to people who don't like the art. Blizzard said they wanted to make the game feel scary & creepy without resorting to bland, drab, dingy colors & gritty textures. They want to give the game a feeling based on it's other content. I quote the WD:

"Oooga booga." Madly atmospheric, yeah?

And why would Diablo fans want to find fault with the game they've been waiting years for? Because it isn't as good as they feel it should be? That's not a valid reason for disappointment?

What if you saw this guy in real life, how would you feel?? And dont tell me you wouldnt be scared cmon. ( btw not in the middle of the city where you have all society to fall too, but alone somewhere in a jungle or shomething lol )

[Ammareddo_Fritter]

I'd be more scared that a grown man was yelling "Ooga Booga" at me in a city then in a jungle, because he would have had to escaped from a loony bin, ifyaknowwhatameen. :P

[raveharu]

Well necromancers, hmmm they just stand there like idiots and let their summons do the job. So that's your idea of fun? :scratchchin:

Hmmm, a bone necromancer, he basically sucks in PvM and the only valid reason why people made them is for PvP.

Poison necromancer are neutral, no comments.


Necromancer = :tombstone:

[AxlStrife]

Well necromancers, hmmm they just stand there like idiots and let their summons do the job. So that's your idea of fun? :scratchchin:

Hmmm, a bone necromancer, he basically sucks in PvM and the only valid reason why people made them is for PvP.

Poison necromancer are neutral, no comments.


Necromancer = :tombstone:

I'd have to generally agree with this. I haven't seen a successful bone/summon hybrid in a very long time. I suspect that's due to bone spear/spirit's weak without dedicating about 80 points to it.

Assuming there will be no synergies or the synergies will be somewhat weak (something like Ice Bolt to FO or some other effect to a spell), the WD looks to be more flexible. I can't wait to play "Doogie Howser".

[Kiroptus]

Well necromancers, hmmm they just stand there like idiots and let their summons do the job. So that's your idea of fun? :scratchchin:

Hmmm, a bone necromancer, he basically sucks in PvM and the only valid reason why people made them is for PvP.

Poison necromancer are neutral, no comments.


Necromancer = :tombstone:

Well... teleporting around casting one spell isnt my idea of fun as well. At least a good summon necro need to know the time to cast Amplify, decrept or attract to cast CE after that. Plus they arent item dependent so they are very casual friendly.

Necro can go but then so does teleporting. If summoning is such a horrible thing for a hack and slash then so is skipping everything until the boss :thumbup:

[raveharu]

Well... teleporting around casting one spell isnt my idea of fun as well. At least a good summon necro need to know the time to cast Amplify, decrept or attract to cast CE after that. Plus they arent item dependent so they are very casual friendly.

Necro can go but then so does teleporting. If summoning is such a horrible thing for a hack and slash then so is skipping everything until the boss :thumbup:

I have to disagree on this.

Casting spells and teleporting is a totally different story compared to standing there and letting one's summons to do the killing.

When casting spells, one will generally be in the battle. The person will be aware of the monsters he is killing, and he scans the surroundings, he is aware of his health and mana and is cautious of any dangers nearby.

On the contrarily, a summoner will just rush into the battle and watch his summons kill the enemy. That is all, 0 effort and caution taken.

Your dislike for teleport is understandable. Generally the release of maphack in Diablo 2 leads to even further abuse of the skill.
The only way to prevent teleport abuse would be the need to complete the entire dungeon level before proceeding to the next.

[Kiroptus]

Its just a playstyle you dont like, I for example, lothe the idea of using hammerdins, I find it like... abominable.

I never really stand still when playing summoner, at least not doing nothing, you need to cast AMP damage on the enemies that the skellies and your merc are hitting, cast attract on the ranged ones to prevent damage to your summons and be more careful against enemies that can pierce like the slingers and black souls and against bosses you need to use decrepfy + clay golem to slow them to the max. Plus most of the kiling is done by your own castings of CE and not by your summons so you cant really stand there doing nothing, unless you really want to take a very long time watching summons hitting the enemies. Tho act bosses go down very quickly because of the merc using guilhaums(sp?) face, so CB makes short work of them.

Its not item-dependent, its fun to take notions of crowd control and customizing the merc's items. Since summon necro was always considered so weak by so much people I just cant see why the hate for it. Even tho he has a lot of potential to be one of most insane crowd-killers and controllers of the game, few people could actually see it. Most of the comments I see are "Duh, summons suck, they only work on normal" when its exactly the contrary, in nightmare and hell difficult is where they really shine.

But again, if their playstyle was really that damaging to the concept of hack and slashing and blizz was taking notice of it, expect teleport to be taken out as well because it certainly does against the very principle of hack and slash that is, hack and slash your way to the big bad boss. At least with summoner you were hack and slashing your way to the boss with your summons and your spells (curses and CE).

[raveharu]

The reason why sorcs have teleport is because they are weak, they get 1-2 hit ko in nm/hell easily compared to the rest of the classes.

The skill primary purpose is to allow them to move away or escape a losing battle quickly.

Then again, as I mentioned earlier, Diablo2 doesn't have the requirement to complete a specific dungeon to proceed to the next. Combine with the maphack, it has led to the abuse of the skill.

But what can you complain?
Have you tried using your summoner in cramp places like Maggot Lair, in Hell mode? I would like to see how long your summoner will take to reach level 3.

Your concept of hack and slash is pretty weird, and I feel your argument is falling towards more on your unhappiness about teleportation.

Anyway I do not think teleport will be removed, it is the basic essential for a spell-caster.

I think they will remove the necromancer instead.

[Kiroptus]

The reason why sorcs have teleport is because they are weak, they get 1-2 hit ko in nm/hell easily compared to the rest of the classes.

The skill primary purpose is to allow them to move away or escape a losing battle quickly.

Then again, as I mentioned earlier, Diablo2 doesn't have the requirement to complete a specific dungeon to proceed to the next. Combine with the maphack, it has led to the abuse of the skill.

But what can you complain?
Have you tried using your summoner in cramp places like Maggot Lair, in Hell mode?

Anyway I do not think teleport will be removed.

Yes I did, its not that hard, just use clay golem and the merc, its not as bad as a hammerdin without enigma doing it. Plus the maggot lair is the biggest design mistake in the diablo franchise. Its level structure goes complete against how an isometric game is played. I think it was schaefer who said something like that. So its not really an example of anything.

Sorcs have teleport so they can skip monsters who have immunity to their elements, its one of the reasons why sorcs were never my cup of tea, I dont like skipping the killing just because some monster was imune to my element of choice. At least nothing was immune to necro summoners.


And I do count that teleport is out, with more focus on story-driven and immersion in the battles plus scripted scenarios, I doubt that such a ridiculous skipping skill will return if not in a heavily nerfed form that wouldnt function as how it is used now.


Anyway I do not think teleport will be removed, it is the basic essential for a spell-caster.

Not it isnt, it was always used to skip the game.


I think they will remove the necromancer instead.

They can do that, the witch doctor is here and he functions somewhat like the necro. As long as Hammerdins and teleport are out, im fine with that :D

[raveharu]

Well I hate the skipping as well.

It has become a disturbing trend, like for example, once you reach Act 3, the players will be asking for Travincal wp.

Same goes for Baal runs, when I told the players we were walking to Baal, people will start leaving the game or pretend to afk in town.

I'm pretty sure D3 will be different, they would not tolerate this rushing and glitching nonsense. Likewise, with these steps implemented, teleport will no longer be abused.




As long as Hammerdins and teleport are out, im fine with that :D

I agree on the hammerdin part. I made one recently because it is the only class I have not tried (serious).
Anyway I had a spare Enigma and a few hammerdin gear lying around, so why not?
I was quite shocked because unlike the other classes I play before, at around 7x I could easily solo Hell Baal in a 8 player game (once in a while spamming Full Reju for Souls)

Teleport on a hammerdin, now that is a serious mistake.

[Kiroptus]

If random dungeons are out and only scripted events are in I doubt that teleport will return on how it did function. Maybe a blink with a cooldown but not the nonsense that it used to be.

Now back to the Wd, I like him. The fact that he has more summons make me very eager to play him, you can be talking about how summoners were bad and all but Wd might as well be just like the necro except in fewer number of summons, necro used to be able to summon 40 skellies, it was tonned down to 10 but the skellies got much more stronger, if WD can only summon those 3 dogs but they can scale in power and still be augmented with fire or poison, then they might as well be the same necro of always.

You can be all saying that you are happy the necro is out but at least we got something of a necro-alike character in it so eventually the WD will be embraced. Now the community's favourite abused elements which were the hammerdin and teleport havent been even mentioned while at least the necromancer was mentioned by devs and were acknowledged by the merit of the class.

My only gripe with them is that they look a big goofy with all the armor on, they look great on the diablo 3 site, which shows how they would appear on lv1. But with the armor I would prefer a more subtle take on it. It can have feathers and all that jungle/carnival stuff but it needs to be more subtle and have a little of a dark theme on it, maybe some skulls and a more intimidating visage.

[a brick]

well a lot of people have been saying stuff about his image, and he does seem a little out of place compared to his surroundings. but on the official site, but background image of his page shows a wd with a huge mask and a staff covered in skulls. i think when the character has higher level armor and such the darkness will be more obvious.
personally i find him dark in a mysterious and mystical sense more than a morbid one. but thats my opinion. i think the wd needs to have some improvement from what we saw but we only saw a tiny bit. i think that guy is gonna have some sick armor!

i dont think the necro is coming back, which is sad but not cus of the witch doctor. i was reading on the d3 site in the monster section on those gnarled tree things. and it said that they came from necromancers. there is a lot of anti necromancer things going on and i expect to see them as enemies possibly... maybe once of those NPC allies but nothing more. Personally, i dont think the WD is replacing anyone. hes a new face in an old series imo.

[Cwicseolfor]

I don't know if anyone is like me, but I just was really underwhelmed by the witch doctor.

So don't play as a Witch Doctor.

You've got 5 or 6 classes to choose from; don't try and deprive others of what is clearly an interesting class and a fun character concept, simply because you want Diablo 3 to be exactly the same as Diablo 2 (http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/diablo-hate-internet.php).


First, I don't really want to play a class hunched over like an ape dragging his knuckles. But, secondly, he's just really underwhelming compared to the barbarian's completely over the top effects. I you cannot match that stunning performance with another class, you need to get rid of that class or rework it. Seriously, it was like seeing the Toronto Space Needle next to a barn silo.

Second, as a person that has played necromancer for several ladders in a row as my main, I hate the witch doctor. I loved my pets. I loved my UNDEAD pets. I realize they are lag central when you have 30. But, they could easily just make them bigger, and stronger and fewer. Give them multiple attacks on surrounding mobs as they level. Ditto the skeletal mages. Allow me one revive summon that turns into a horrible, massive beast with crushing blow and AE stun that lasts only 15 seconds or something.

I was really excited about the barbarian, then this waddling disaster came out and I was like... "are they kidding?". THIS is the new necromancer? Witch doctor sounds like a guy that failed the necromancer final exam.

I'm reasonably excited about the game, but reasonably disheartened about the loss of necromancers. That's my play style. I will try to adjust to something else, but just looking at the thing was irritating.

To paraphrase Blizzard: "We haven't really thought about it, but there's definitely still plenty of room to add a Necromancer."

At worst, you'll see him in an expansion. But you can't seriously have expected every character to make a return. We'll probably see 3 old and 2 new, or 2 old and 3 new. Either way, there will be people pissed off about losing their favourite class. It's unavoidable, but not the end of the world.


If anyone from Blizzard reads this by some chance, please reconsider.

Thankfully, Blizzard knows enough about their game (which is far more than any of us) to know that would be a rather dumb move.

There will probably always be a class you don't like. Deal with it, and focus on the ones you do like instead.

[Glurin]

Why is it people think that because we just don't like the WD and would greatly prefer to see the necromancer instead, we want D2 with a different title?

[AxlStrife]

Why is it people think that because we just don't like the WD and would greatly prefer to see the necromancer instead, we want D2 with a different title?

Domino Effect. If Blizzard accepts your arguments and replaces the Witch Doctor with the Necromancer, everyone else who wants their class back will now have a legitimate argument: "You did it for the whiny necromancer-lovers, why not us? Why do they get special treatment?" Then we get D2X 1.X.

[lassenc]

And another thing that annoyed me was the zombie-like-wall-spell, maybe the idea of a attacking wall is kinda nice, but why would those zombies stand perfectly in line and not move at all? not very logical to me....

And so are massive fireballs falling from the sky, bone walls, bone spears, frozen orbs, human generated blizzards, 20 arrows per shot?

[Dorfoumous]

YAY for pure speculation, and jugding something that you haven't even played yet.

Thats like saying, The Playstation 4 is going to suck because the controller isn't the same...

You can't judge something that isn't out yet, or have any experience playing.

[Mad Mantis]

Domino Effect. If Blizzard accepts your arguments and replaces the Witch Doctor with the Necromancer, everyone else who wants their class back will now have a legitimate argument: "You did it for the whiny necromancer-lovers, why not us? Why do they get special treatment?" Then we get D2X 1.X.

But now they are stuck with "the Barb is back, why not class X?" And the interviews hinted that one or two other classes are coming back as well so the argument will continue.

[AxlStrife]

But now they are stuck with "the Barb is back, why not class X?" And the interviews hinted that one or two other classes are coming back as well so the argument will continue.

True, but I suppose having two classes with the possibility to overlap so much is of little importance.

[Crazygeorge]

You must admit that with this Witch Doctor character, Blizzard has made the Barbarian look and feel as a very good class to play. Quite an accomplishment don't you think?

Call me paranoid but in order to make this new class more appealing I have a feeling that it's going to outperform all the others by a large margin.

[AxlStrife]

You must admit that with this Witch Doctor character, Blizzard has made the Barbarian look and feel as a very good class to play. Quite an accomplishment don't you think?

Call me paranoid but in order to make this new class more appealing I have a feeling that it's going to outperform all the others by a large margin.

I don't think it's the WD that makes the Barb seem good, that would be the Barb's attacks' interactions with the ragdoll physics and destructible environment. Leap looks to be an insane utility spell, much more than in D2.

[Simon Grim]

The only issues I have with the Witch Doctor is the fact his name makes me think jungle safaris with guys in tan round hats and elephant guns. (Why not Jungle Priest or something more set to the concept of that era of our time line?) Its not really a complaint its just an observation. I'm supposing we are going to see more doctors in game instead of healers or priests?

Also am I the only one that feels the stance for the female WD that we've seen feels sexist? God forbid we have an unattractive stance for a female character. Do women not ever hunch over to look more tribal and savage? Lemme guess she isn't going to have any face jewelry either.

[a brick]

nope Simon Grim, no face jewelry or anything like that. just cleavage, and lots of it!

[AxlStrife]

Also am I the only one that feels the stance for the female WD that we've seen feels sexist? God forbid we have an unattractive stance for a female character. Do women not ever hunch over to look more tribal and savage? Lemme guess she isn't going to have any face jewelry either.

Thank demographic market research for that. The people they want to appeal to are the teen-adult males, so it's no wonder that the female will be attractive and not have breasts to her navel or knees or what-have-you.

[a brick]

and you might notice the male barb is older (meaning his mastery of fighting) but the female looks a lot younger. good point AxlStrife. Nobody wants to see a wrinkling old woman flopping all over the place when u can have a young one with a silly little mask.

[Kiroptus]

Honestly I think the female Wd should have been an old woman just like the male one. Ugly and hunched back. Like the native woman in Peter's jacksons peter King kong. The one who points to the blond woman saying "Tore kong". That would be more fitting but youngesters must see only pretty woman.

[Simon Grim]

Heh I don't really care if she's young and attractive, but she stands like a Barbie doll. Perfect pose. Reminds me of the D2 Sorceress. Can't she move like a snake or something. I mean I expect the female barbarian to be a wall like she is, but it just feels wrong to see a female voodoo priest not move like a snake or something other than stand like a confident mage.

[Glurin]

Also am I the only one that feels the stance for the female WD that we've seen feels sexist? God forbid we have an unattractive stance for a female character. Do women not ever hunch over to look more tribal and savage? Lemme guess she isn't going to have any face jewelry either.

What are you talking about? Everybody knows that the only ugly females in the world are old hags that you either buy potions from or kill or both.

Hmm, you know, now that I think about it, how do they get to be old hags anyway? We don't see any somewhat ugly females around, so do they just wake up one morning with a face that could shatter mirrors and an urge to sell potions? ;)

[raveharu]

What are you talking about? Everybody knows that the only ugly females in the world are old hags that you either buy potions from or kill or both.

Hmm, you know, now that I think about it, how do they get to be old hags anyway? We don't see any somewhat ugly females around, so do they just wake up one morning with a face that could shatter mirrors and an urge to sell potions? ;)

One day you will grow old yourself, and your description of old women is rather uncalled for.

[AxlStrife]

One day you will grow old yourself, and your description of old women is rather uncalled for.

Didn't catch the satire of an RPGer's skewed view of women, I see.

[lionheart]

Maybe cause they think that an old man still has some strength to kiss ***, while in the other hand a woman can do it only if she is young...

[5zigen]

Maybe cause they think that an old man still has some strength to kiss ***, while in the other hand a woman can do it only if she is young...

Freudian slip?

[lionheart]

Hahahaha now im seeing the kiss *** thingy, pardon me people it was meant kick *** lol

[z00t]

I'm actually really excited for the Witch Doctor. D:

I love the strong voodoo theme and how 'physical' his magic is, like how he blows voodoo powder and it turns into locusts, or throwing voodoo dust onto enemies to make them turn on one another.

Personally, he has so much more flavour and character than what I considered to be a boring and generic Necromancer. I mean, D2's a lot of fun, and the gameplay is addictive, but I'm not particularly drawn to some of the characters just because they've always struck me as being generic fantasy archetypes.

The Witch Doctor, on the other hand, is venturing into relatively new territory in terms of flavour. Now, I don't think the Witch Doctor is a Necromancer remake, but even if he is, I'd welcome it over the Necromancer just because I find the cultural spin on a classic fantasy archetype to be very refreshing.

I'm hoping to see more cultural twists on established fantasy roles with the other classes :].

[Cwicseolfor]

If the Witch Doctor's meant to be a Necromancer replacement, he's a pretty damn big improvement.

[ironrunes]

When I started believing that D3 was coming up, or at least hoping so (say about two years ago), what I thought was that the classes from D2 would not be in D3.
I thought that actually NONE of them would make it unscathed, save for Amazon and Sorc (two staples in RPGs), but even there I would have expected some changes.

So when I saw that the Barb was still in, and that it kept some of its major distinctive characteristics, I wowd. Half in disbelief and half in delusion.
Then delusion went away because the barb is awesome.
So then I see this twitchy Voodoo shaman of sorts. "Oh, cool. Kurast people coming in!". Then I read WD's background, and that is sure pretty creepy. WDs go in Ghost Trance when eating herbs and roots (guess that's where the twitchy hand comes from). They have wars with nearby tribes to get people for human sacrifices.
Gameplay. Hum. Summons and crowd controlling stuff, but bombs and chainlocusts. Sweet. New. Yay.

What I mean after all this blabla, is that I was waiting for D3 as for something completely new, saving only those core elements that went from D1 to D2. Like random maps, the nice item categorization and so on. Not classes.

Up to now I am very very happy, and I find the WD extremely interesting.
I do not like purplegreenWoWmasks, but I find the character somewhat creepy to a point and then funny, but in an uncomfortable way. Something like Norman Bates.
Maybe he is just wearing said colors, and we will have other equips for him, just like we do right now in D2.

[Zarniwoop]

If the Witch Doctor's meant to be a Necromancer replacement, he's a pretty damn big improvement.


This statement made me realize that there is simply too wide a gap in what we all view as reality on these boards to ever reach a consensus.

I had no intention for this thread to get this long or keep going.

I still think the WD is bobo the wonder clown and the necromancer is roughly 29,485 times cooler. But, I accept that my position and a buck fifty might get you a cup of lousy coffee.

[recon]

if witch doctors can use that fear ward thing in pvp they are the new lock.

god i hate death coil.

curse of agony

corruption

fear.

rinse and repeat :(

[DarwinJim]

The Witchdoctor does not float my boat.

Note that the word "witchdoctor" is a pejorative title with negative connotations, with implications of quackery or fraud.

Shaman would be a better title for the class; perhaps they did not want to use the word "shaman" because it is already in use in WoW?

[Glurin]

They can call him "Billy the wonder chimp" for all I care. I still don't like him.

[Stafir]

Glurin with the way they talk..they could get rid of him and you still wouldn't like him. This entire post you've done nothing but talk bad, insult, and then ignore anyone who says he's good. You've repeatedly said he's bad, horrible, stupid, silly, whatever.

We know it, you hate him, you don't like him. Thats fine.

Others do like him, you can stop bumping the thread, which seems to be your only purpose, with your inane comments that add little to nothing to the discussion.

[Kiroptus]

Again, the WD surely has potential. I dont hold grudge about him for replacing the necro my main problem with him is that he is way over the top! At least in terms of visuals.

http://diablo.incgamers.com/gallery/data/563/art-trailer-char10.jpg

If this is not over the top, I dont know what can be.

Beneath all this layer of costume and purple colors lies an interesting and dark character. Look at the details of his skin and his hand. He is far more evil looking than the necro. But with all this carnival-jungle stuff, he looks quite goofy. Seriously, its even out of synch with the character's visuals itself, it looks something right from Warcraft. He seems so mysterious and subtle without armor but then suddenly he puts up his armor and it all goes down the drain.

I really think they should tone down his armor a bit. It can look cool with nice details and all but this is an exageration.

[z00t]

I actually think that concept art is utterly badass :P.

If you just look at his model in character selection without all his gear on, it's not a stretch to imagine him as some mere cultist monster who you have to kill :P.

Once he's got his gear on, he looks far more imposing (and that is, after all, the purpose of the mask and all the feathers and stuff). There's something intimidating about wearing a mask - you can't see how he looks like - I think it makes him so much more unfathomable.

[raveharu]

WD is far more better than the necromancer, which is like so passe.

I don't think there's anything wrong with the screenie, it looks fantastic, but judging that most of the people complaining are mostly necro-lovers...well they will still find a reason to complain about the WD :whistling:

[Kiroptus]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the screenie, it looks fantastic, but judging that most of the people complaining are mostly necro-lovers...well they will still find a reason to complain about the WD :whistling:

I really think its very stupid to say "Necro-lovers". The necro IS in. He just got a new make up. If you hated the necro so much, well... guess you might hate the WD as well. He has summons, curses and diseases. He IS the Necromancer equivalent of Diablo 3.

Necro was part of Diablo2, like it or not, and he wasnt damaging the game structure as teleport and hammerdins were. It might not be your style but he was there and he got an equivalent class to replace him. So in the end all "necro-lovers" will be satisfied. There is no doubt about that.

Will other favourites of the community return? I dont know. Maybe your favourite type of character wont even be back at all while the necro is.

FYI My mains were a Phoenix Strike Asn and a Fire Druid. I always loved doing underdog builds, the only cookie cutter build that was bearable for me to play was a summon necro. I hated going fire sorc because you had to skip 90% of the monsters (all fire immune) and I have principles so I never bothered to make a hammerdin. Plus summoners were very casual-friendly, never required too much equip and I never needed to skip any monster at all, plus he could quickly kill an entire screen of monsters in seconds, even with crap gear.


And even if the necro WAS in, I would still find the WD really over the top. All this unproportional masks and feathers take the characteristics out of the character, it looks almost cartoony. I would prefer a more subtle take on it.

[raveharu]

And even if the necro WAS in, I would still find the WD really over the top. All this unproportional masks and feathers take the characteristics out of the character, it looks almost cartoony. I would prefer a more subtle take on it.

Nope. That's what makes a WD, and I think Blizzard did a good job with the jungle-theme.

[Stafir]

I'm with z00t on this one...the mask and the like actually adds to it. This is a witch doctor after all. Not just some regular guy who has a mullet, is scrawny as heck, and looks emo like everyone else. No he is of a group of people who have some control over the dead, use potions and powders as the focus of their magic, and wear masks that either draw upon the power of, or house spirits. The way the mask looks is ment to strongly represent the spirit inside of it, or in the case of some cultures, a certain personality from the person behind the mask.

I don't understand, at all, where this whole carnival thing comes from. They have taken ideas from cultures around the world (or world) and implemented them into this witch doctor they made.

Try doing a google image search for 'tribal mask' you'll get alot of results and you'll see where Blizzard seems to be drawing their ideas for the 'odd' headdress of the WD.

[ill logic]

Well, Necs get shrunken heads as shields which is solidly a Witch Doctor thing. The whole idea of zombies is more of a WD thing too--legend has it, people were drugged and placed in a hole as if to be buried. They'd awake and walk around in a stupor like...a zombie!

Interestingly, it has been 20 years since the events. Necs could have undergone amazing changes since then. If they're as smart as they're supposed to be, they realized that all of their Golems, Skelly Mages, Revives, and most of their curses suck ***. So they hung up their shrunken heads and went to Lut Gholein to get tans and workout so they can stop being pale, girly-men that whine raspy, withering whines when their stupid bone shield goes down and their idiotic skellies attack their own lame bone walls.

If you want your WD to stand upright, pick the female one. Witch Doctors are the occult done right.

[raveharu]

Well, Necs get shrunken heads as shields which is solidly a Witch Doctor thing. The whole idea of zombies is more of a WD thing too--legend has it, people were drugged and placed in a hole as if to be buried. They'd awake and walk around in a stupor like...a zombie!

Interestingly, it has been 20 years since the events. Necs could have undergone amazing changes since then. If they're as smart as they're supposed to be, they realized that all of their Golems, Skelly Mages, Revives, and most of their curses suck ***. So they hung up their shrunken heads and went to Lut Gholein to get tans and workout so they can stop being pale, girly-men that whine raspy, withering whines when their stupid bone shield goes down and their idiotic skellies attack their own lame bone walls.

If you want your WD to stand upright, pick the female one. Witch Doctors are the occult done right.


:lol2::rolf:

[a brick]

ill logic...i love u...

i have nothing against the necro but the WD is badass. i mean, there is something unhuman about him, so the mask is very fitting. Maybe its supposed to represent spirits or scare animals...who knows!?
i dont care! i think the masks are gonna be cool as hell when u get to higher levels.

i want those shrunken heads back for the WD. that SERIOUSLY needs to be in d3

[Zhulok]

Witch Docters and Shamans have always been masters of poison, alchemy, spiritual healing, Voodoo and dark arts/necromancy. The Necromancer isnt the only person that uses the undead and spirits to do his bidding. The Witch Docter does all the things i said above but the Necromancer only does poison and necromancy. I love the Necromancer and I was upset that he'll probably be replaced by the Witch Docter(contrary to what Blizzard said) but I have realized that some people may think he stole abilities from other classes but in fact those classes are just more simple than he is and he in fact is a master of more things then they are.

Alot of people also dont like the look because he is a little more colorful and the fact that he is hunched over. I do agree that his color is a bit too bright and they should make him look a little more worn down but im perfectly fine with the hunched over look because it puts a little more variety in the characters. Luckily this only the first small glimpse at the game and the Witch Docter class and Im sure that when the game comes out he will be very popular.

Peace and love to all.:thumbup:

[Glurin]

Never liked the shrunken heads either. They do fit the WD though. I'd be glad if they gave those to him rather than the necro.


I really think its very stupid to say "Necro-lovers". The necro IS in. He just got a new make up.

If they renamed him to "Necromancer" and gave him every single ability that the necro had in D2, that still does not make him a necromancer. If anything, that would make him an insult. A cheap copy with a silly mask. He is a completely different flavor of character. Why is that so hard to understand?



Nope. That's what makes a WD, and I think Blizzard did a good job with the jungle-theme.

Now that I agree with. As far as witchdoctors go, blizzard did a good job with theirs.

[AxlStrife]

If they renamed him to "Necromancer" and gave him every single ability that the necro had in D2, that still does not make him a necromancer. If anything, that would make him an insult. A cheap copy with a silly mask. He is a completely different flavor of character. Why is that so hard to understand?

As far as play mechanics, you have to admit the WD plays somewhat like the Necro, so saying that the WD is the playable Necro with a new look is not TOTALLY false.

[Glurin]

If all you care about is play mechanics, then I can see why pretty much any character would do, and why he could be confused with the necromancer. However, we haven't seen nearly enough of the play mechanics to make that call.

[AxlStrife]

If all you care about is play mechanics, then I can see why pretty much any character would do, and why he could be confused with the necromancer. However, we haven't seen nearly enough of the play mechanics to make that call.

True, but if all the anti-WDs have for their argument is flavor I highly it'll be changed. I happen to like the flavor of the witch doctor and find it fits better than the Necromancer in context to the swamp/jungle region, but it's not like you see me trying to "force" my views on anyone.

Besides, from the bestiary it looks like Necromancers aren't exactly the 'good guys' in D3, so (s)he might make a scene as a boss or hordes of enemies. Nihlathak comes to mind.

[Glurin]

Besides, from the bestiary it looks like Necromancers aren't exactly the 'good guys' in D3, so (s)he might make a scene as a boss or hordes of enemies. Nihlathak comes to mind.

This is just an attempt by the anti-necro folks to convince themselves that necro's really are bad guys. Raising skeletons is not just a necromancer skill. Remember Act II? That place was full of skeletons, yet the only necromancer around was the one killing them all. Not to mention we now have the WD, who also raises the dead and IMO is far more likely to be stirring up trouble. Besides that, its completely out of character for a Priest of Rathma to raise skeletons just to cause trouble. There might be a necro playing the bad guy, with very good reasons for doing so (in his mind anyway), but for the entire group to go that way is highly unlikely. If anything, the necromancers would be fighting the demons, as they are once again upsetting the balance that the necros wish to preserve.

This is all speculative of course, since none of us know exactly what the story is actually going to be. The point is that just because there are skeletons causing mischief doesn't mean the necromancer is a villain now. It doesn't mean anything at all really.

Also, Nihlathak was not a Priest of Rathma, IIRC.

[AxlStrife]

This is just an attempt by the anti-Necro folks to convince themselves that Necro's really are bad guys. Raising skeletons is not just a necromancer skill. Remember Act II? That place was full of skeletons, yet the only necromancer around was the one killing them all. Not to mention we now have the WD, who also raises the dead and IMO is far more likely to be stirring up trouble.
The comparison of the Undead Shamans can be made closer to the Act 1 Demon Shamans than the Necromancer. The Necromancer wields demonic forces, so it's no wonder why demons and undead would have that power.

Just because I propose a hypothesis that actually has some validity: The bestiary hinting at necromancers controlling generally evil concoctions as well as Blizzard people saying the WD doesn't replace the Necro(which is clever enough to be put in the context of having NPCs or enemies as Necros), does not mean I am "anti-Necro" whatsoever. I'd be comfortable playing a Necromancer again, but I'd rather the Witch Doctor. You don't see me getting in an uproar like some people from either camp, and that's a good thing. Otherwise, these discussions would look like the D3PK thread (no offense to Mike, who is an awesome mod).


Besides that, its completely out of character for a Priest of Rathma to raise skeletons just to cause trouble. There might be a necro playing the bad guy, with very good reasons for doing so (in his mind anyway), but for the entire group to go that way is highly unlikely. If anything, the necromancers would be fighting the demons, as they are once again upsetting the balance that the necros wish to preserve.
And what of the 20 years of "peace" beforehand? Would the Priests of Rathma notice the destruction of the Prime Evils, thus throwing the balance to good causing the Necromancers to react accordingly? I doubt that an immediate reversal of alignment would occur as soon as the "omen" beckons the D3 cast.


This is all speculative of course, since none of us know exactly what the story is actually going to be. The point is that just because there are skeletons causing mischief doesn't mean the necromancer is a villain now. It doesn't mean anything at all really.

Also, Nihlathak was not a Priest of Rathma, IIRC.
There is nothing concrete connecting him to the Clan of Rathma, but that does not completely rule out the possibility. Here's a few things I noticed about him that could hint at this:

1) His garments resemble that of the common Necromancer.
2) He uses Corpse Explosion, only available as a skill to Necromancers (barring Death Sentry)
3) The belief of "keeping the balance of good and evil" could have been skewed in his demented mind to give Baal the Relic to allow him in the Worldstone.

[Cwicseolfor]

This statement made me realize that there is simply too wide a gap in what we all view as reality on these boards to ever reach a consensus.

I had no intention for this thread to get this long or keep going.

I still think the WD is bobo the wonder clown and the necromancer is roughly 29,485 times cooler. But, I accept that my position and a buck fifty might get you a cup of lousy coffee.

Fair enough. And much lol @ the coffee comment. ;)

[Ghoulz]

I'll use the female version, not the goofy dude.

OOOLING.... PUFF!!! Oh opps, Tingle isn't a witchdoctor, close though.

Necromancers and Witchdoctors killing evil necromancers and witchdoctors, it's going to get confusing.

[Powassan]

Looks like the a new sissy necro.

[Hodl Pu]

I don't see what's so bad about him. Since he summons creatures, I'm ok with him. All I want is a character which summons things so I can sit back watch them beat the hell out of each other (so I hope he has more than just mongrels to summon)

So What's the fuss?
Is it cause the WD is not the master of the dead?
- He summons strange animals with frilly feathered necklaces
- He likes to unleash herbivore insects on his non vegetative enemies
- He likes to throw concoctions which contains a firey being that goes RAWR!
- To scare his enemies, he needs not to yell or curse... he simply shows his ugly face which magically hovers above his head.

Honestly I can see your point in why you see the Necromancer as a more bad *** dude. Dead is more... deadly. Dark is more cool. The Necromancer is less ugly. Hell, if you put a mask on a zombie and make it walk with its legs always bent, we have a genuine WD clone. But why can't I hate the WD like you guys do? Maybe its because...

The WD may have some stranger aspects of the necromancer, but he has some nonetheless. It's a mixture of new and old, dark and light. We now have this primitive necro with jungle fever! So the WD may not cure you needs for a bad *** char, but he'll probably be the generic cold pill for your sniffles. I mean, it still works well, it just has a crappy name and look, but that's good enough for me! :grouphug:

[The top ramen]

While I admit the WD looks like a likely candidate for the next National Geographic centerfold the Witch Nurse on the other hand looks strangely cute in a native sort of way!

[Naja]

The Witch Doctor plays interesting, and most of all, he is unique. Blizzard is doing what it does best - pioneering. Do you have any idea how different and iconoclastic the Necromancer was when Diablo 2 first came out?

All you Necro fanboys are just looking for something to ***** about. The Sorceror fans were probably saying the same thing about the Necromancer when D2 was released. ;)

[Telzen]

The only thing I hate about the witch doctor is how he damn twitches. I still hope the necro gets in though.

[DaveLepard]

If the WD was removed and the Necro was brought back that'd be fine, but what about the amazon, druid, assassin and paladin fans? They would demand that their favourite character would be brought back aswell and in the end D3 would just be D2 with a new world and maybe some new items etc. It's a new game and if they don't come up with new characters etc what's the point of playing the game as you already got the perfect game here, I.E D2, with necros, skellies etc. I love the necro too and I hope we'll see him but it's not possible to demand that the necro will return as that will restrict Blizzard creativity to a percent equal to zero.

[Chard]

There should be a necromancer town. Some significant reference to them being in the world of sanctuary, a quest or npcs and the like.

[Mad Mantis]

A Necromancer town could be a wonderful location. In the concept art there is this area where you can see huge bodies lying in some kind of pool. I'm wondering if they are connected.

[Ghoulz]

A Necromancer town could be a wonderful location. In the concept art there is this area where you can see huge bodies lying in some kind of pool. I'm wondering if they are connected.

I'd think they would be a little more sanitary than that:badteeth:

[Mad Mantis]

The heroes will take on the role of Necromancer Janitors. They'll have to fish out whatever floats in the pool.

[raishi]

on a side note...most of the people of sanctuary blame the necromancers for the events of D2 and for the undead still wanding about...so playing a necromancer would make you a bad guy with how things are looking...and i wonder are there more then one version of the videos online? because with the way people explain the events of the video it sounds like a completely different then what i saw...that puff of smoke was a very nice explosion...it wasn't C4 it was a corpse exploding...and it left a good bloody mess...as for not as flashy...the barb didn't have anyhting that stripped it foes to the bone...or throw a molotov cocktail...that flashed into some firey demon thing...or animate a wall that tore apart a charging horde of monsters...and the barb you so love got grabbed by the end beast and had its head ripped off and tossed to the ground...in a bloddy mess...i love that part of the video...

both classes are good at what they do...the barb beats things to a pulp and the witch doctor is crowd control...and necromancers couldn't even blow up their own minions...and needed corpses to summon more...the witch doctor can summon up a fresh batch when ever he feels like it and then use it as a walking chemical weapon and granade...out of the two i say the witch doctor is more ammusing and will probably be my first pick unless something even more ammusing appears out of the minds of blizzard...

[Spartanturtle]

You know, I just finished reading almost all the posts on this thread (yeah, im REALLY bored) and i just have to say that i think this post has taught me an important life lesson.

The lesson is, that in the end nobody can ever please EVERYONE. Anyone ever seen the movie Bruce Almighty? If not leme give you a reaaaly quick summary.

This guy was pissed at god cuz his life was in the tubes, but god was listening. He gave him all his powers to see if he could do any better. At first, the guy just granted everyones prayers and the world fell into chaos (Everyone won the lottery, which yielded like 12 bucks per jackpot and people were PISSED). Then he tried granting only certain peoples prayers, but then others started hating him, which made him feel bad. In the end, he simply stopped granting wishes and began helping people with his mortal powers, with simple good deeds and kind words. Not everyone was happy but less people were miserable.

My point is that Blizzard is simply being the good god in this case. They took the high road, and decided that the best way to keep as many people happy as they could was to add the WD, and personally, i respect their judgement. Im not saying anybody on this thread is ignorant. Were all rational, educated people here. No one is being childish, but simply trying to do what humans do best... Try to make others see situations they do. I believe that if Blizzard listened to everyones posts, petitions, etc etc, Diablo 3 would simply become that game everyone thought would be cool, but was ruined because the game had 35 classes, 80 different worlds, and took up 350 GB of memory and 360 GB of RAM.

Many of us have worked in the gaming industry, but in the end Blizzard simply has more exp (lol) then any of us. (Unless you guys are Blizzard in disguise... which im sure some are) I am going to trust them to make the best game that they can, and if the WD makes it suck so be it. A bad game is better then no game at all. I simply hope this gets read (took me like 10 minutes to write :D), but i hope that no one takes offense because of this. I respect everyone on this board, regardless of whether they are rational and smart, or OMGWTFBBQ types. Thank you if you read this all, and please... give it some thought (Just not too much, cuz in the end... it IS just a game)

[Deegan]

Wow...all this angst and hatred based on a 4 minute clip. Seems pretty irrational to me. Play the character to 80 then tell me you hate it. Right now complainers sound stupid. Might as well start saying you hate the playbalance between the 3 other characters, and that the *make a name up* is overpowered and needs to be nurfed.

Unfortunately these whiners don't have a limited supply of "Whining-power." It's dream that they would use it all up before the game was actually out. Too bad they regenerate their whine supply by eating fruit snacks in mom's basement.

Oh yes...the Necromancer was the central character in Diablo 2! We'd never want variety! If it was up to these people we'd still be stuck with a Sorcerer, Rogue and Warrior. We'd also be running through the Cathedral in Tristram for the 3rd time.

/shake head
/face palm