Potential problem with D3 (at least for me) - loot

[Cutwolf]

[Fugu_]: Any new loot system?
[Fugu_]: To ensure that loot is given evenly throughout the group
[Fugu_]: "That really sucked"
[p0isonapple]: How will loot be given evenly through the group compared to Diablo 2?
[Fugu_]: Spent a lot of time thinking the loot system.
[p0isonapple]: Loot is generated per character in the party.
[Fugu_]: Each player will see loot generated for them as opposed to a collective system.
[Fugu_]: So you won't be able to steal other player's loot because you won't see it.
[Fugu_]: Will you be able to respec?
[Fugu_]: Not talking about skill systems yet.


One of the coolest things about D2, imo, was the economy (pre-duping). SoJs became the currency and everything sort of flowed off that. Everyone could trade with everyone.

If I'm understanding this right, however, this means items will almost be randomly generated (so an item that would have been +3 all skills in D2 will be +3 <whichever class it drops for> in D3). This will lead to 5 separate economies for each of the classes.

This also kind of takes a big element of "multiplayer" out of multiplayer. It's almost as if you're playing together to kill the monsters, but things like loot are still single player. It doesn't seem as immersive.

I may just be being a negative nancy and I admit that because there are so few details that I could be way wrong in my interpretation, but this is my first concern right now (of course, I have others like whether they can match the feel and longevity of D2, but it's blizzard so I have faith)

[Brother Laz]

No, loot is still random. It's just that it is preassigned to one of the characters so the melee guy/TK sorc can't ninja it from you.

[jamesisbest]

My interpretation as of now is that they just split all the loot evenly among party members randomly. So you can still find witch doctor items as a barb just that if you are in a party of 6 one in every six items will be shown for you and you only.

[YrrAB]

Yeah, in Diablo 2, if you're killing a boss or something of the like with a group, you're ready for a drop. You're already holding alt, and you're not attacking anymore, you're just waiting for the last bit of the monsters health to drop so you can click like mad.

The pro to that is it really kept you paying attention, but the con is you never really play with a group. I remember when a group of mine was fighting the Diablo Clone for the first time, we all stopped attacking @ like 1% of his health, ready for the anni. He killed us all in like 1 hit and we had to start over again.

[Cwicseolfor]

I'm a bit concerned how it will play out, but I like to give game developers the benefit of the doubt here, especially ones that have proven themselves before.

Unless it's Deus Ex 2: Invisible War and they refuse to fix glaring problems with the design despite immense fan blacklash. Pffft tards.

Edit: Besides, the current system isn't that good, as YrrAB noted.

[Cutwolf]

I interpreted it as meaning loot became character specific (so barbs will only get barb loot to drop).

If they just take the 5 items that would have dropped and randomly assign them to one of the characters, that won't be so bad.

[Kiroptus]

Yeah, HGL had a similar system which I say its one of the few things that the game has done right.

With the focus on cooperative, its important that you dont feel worried about your own companion stealing your drops and also the other way around.

[Leohappy]

most (if not all) multiplayer games have loot distributed in this way, so this is not something new for D3. i don't think it will lead to different economies, it will just distribute drops more fairly

for example if a monster drops 2 magic items and 500 gold to a three player party, two will get magical items while the third will receive 500 gold. also i hope drops will be distributed so the highest players get preference (it would be lame if a level 1 character received the best item in a party of level 90's).

[Cutwolf]

From NeoGaf forums:


Question: (in multiplayer) When you killed a boss in Diablo 2, the loot would fall on the floor and the person who has the fastest clicking or connection would just grab all the loot and run away. Does Diablo 3 solve this in some way?

-- In Diablo 3, the loot drops multiple times -- once per player, and only the player sees the loot that is dropped for them.

Can anyone confirm that's what they said or is this the guy's interpretation of it?

But even with this system, this runs the risk of devaluing top items. If an item with a .1% drop chance drops for a party of 4, that means 4 people have that item. Becomes much less rare (although I guess not in the grand scheme of millions of players).

This also allows people with multiple accounts/copies of the game to do boss runs and double up their loot. It's almost like built in duping.

[Leohappy]

This also allows people with multiple accounts/copies of the game to do boss runs and double up their loot. It's almost like built in duping.i seriously doubt this theory.

most likely the monsters will have a fixed drop rate just like they have now, but unlike now each player will receive his share of the loot without chasing it on the ground.

[Cwicseolfor]

most (if not all) multiplayer games have loot distributed in this way, so this is not something new for D3. i don't think it will lead to different economies, it will just distribute drops more fairly

for example if a monster drops 2 magic items and 500 gold to a three player party, two will get magical items while the third will receive 500 gold. also i hope drops will be distributed so the highest players get preference (it would be lame if a level 1 character received the best item in a party of level 90's).

Actually, I think it's something else. In Diablo 2 if 8 people were playing, there was like a 400% increased chance of item drops or something right?

Well now, the rate of item drops is the same regardless of the number of players, but... each player rolls their own dice when a monster dies. So in an 8 player game, there would be 8 different loot checks - one per character.

In this way, too, a low level character rolls his low-level loot table, and a high level character rolls his high level loot table.

Further, this means that sometimes 4 people might get something, while 4 don't, and sometimes one person will get something while 7 don't, since all rolls are independent.

That's my take on it anyway.

[stillman]

Just a quick note, Leohappy, but I really hope there WILL be no lev 1 chr's in a group with lev 90's. I want this to be impossible. There have got to be level limitations on partying up.

I like the new loot system. The only downfall I think will be a whole lot of people will be spamming messages like "what did YOU get?", "Here's what I got, it was a ____.", "No, I'm not lying! I'll show you in town.", "Was it a witchdoctor item? It was wasn't it?...You're LYING! ...Drop it on ground then...I'll stand over here while you drop it on ground."

[Leohappy]

level 1 characters in hell should not be possible in d2 either, but for some reason blizzard never bothered to fix this bug. so you just have to think of every possibility.

regardless, the new loot system will have pluses and minuses. if levels are involved, it will most likely make high level players unpopular in parties (they just might get better stuff), and as you said, it is to expect a lot of message spam. but on the other hand, you will be able to focus more on action, and not have one eye on action, and the other on item drops, while your left hand is sitting on alt-key to snatch them quickly. ridiculous.

[Cwicseolfor]

I don't expect there to be too much message spam due to the completely unpredictable nature of whether or not somebody got a drop.

Besides, a little curiosity like that is good - it keeps the game interesting.

[kavlor]

Ive played a few games that have this loot system and I think it filters out bad feeling between players.'Stay out of the star' was just ridiculous on some chaos runs I went on.The new system keeps a nice flow to item drops and probably means less 'MF runs' are needed,less solo runs.

[ProfessionalBerg]

From NeoGaf forums:



Can anyone confirm that's what they said or is this the guy's interpretation of it?

But even with this system, this runs the risk of devaluing top items. If an item with a .1% drop chance drops for a party of 4, that means 4 people have that item. Becomes much less rare (although I guess not in the grand scheme of millions of players).

This also allows people with multiple accounts/copies of the game to do boss runs and double up their loot. It's almost like built in duping.

Easily fixed by not scaling loot chance with player amount in the game.

[Brother Laz]

Easily fixed by not scaling loot chance with player amount in the game.

So you have 1/4 chance to get an item with 4 people in the game? Then why would anyone party up?

[Es Mors]

As I understand it, everyone gets their own version of the loot, which has nothing to do with what the others are getting. Fixes all the problems I can think of.

[ProfessionalBerg]

So you have 1/4 chance to get an item with 4 people in the game? Then why would anyone party up?

Ugh.

Say, an item has a 0.0001% chance to drop. If more players join, the drop chance does NOT change. As simple as that.

As for partying - killing monsters becomes easier. Remember D2 system? +50% HP per new player, but each player adds +100% power. Also, different classes complement each other.

[konfeta]

It's not a difficult concept to get your head around.

Instead of Diablo dropping 8 items for everyone to try to jack, each person will get their own separate drop from Diablo. It doesn't matter if you are in a party or solo, you get the same items. All it means is that Diablo drops his loot twice, once for each player so they don't compete.

[Cast_Raider]

As I understand it, everyone gets their own version of the loot, which has nothing to do with what the others are getting. Fixes all the problems I can think of.

Maybe I am interpreting the quotes wrong, but yeah.

Like for example: you play solo in The Dungeon of Despair or whatever. You kill 300 monsters. You can expect to see 30 items drop, on average.

Now you play the same dungeon again, with 7 other players this time. Same 300 monsters. Same average of 30 items dropped--but it's 30 for each player. And each player's loot is exclusively for him. Others can't touch it (unless they wanna trade in town). Or hell, maybe they can't even see it. For the purposes of drops, you might as well be playing a different game entirely.

Perhaps another guy got 20 swords and 10 axes. You might get 10 shields and 15 helmets and 5 boots. You won't even know what they got unless you ask them, and visa-versa.

That how I hope it is, anyways. No more scrambling madly for drops. No more pissy slap-fights over who gets what. Even if you could see the windforce that just dropped for your buddy, it doesn't matter because it's like a 2nd horadric cube--you can't pick it up.

Really, this is the #1 reason why people don't play in parties--they want to get good gear so they grind out solo MF runs. Now people can actually play parties for stuff besides just leveling. And you won't have as many people @ lvl 65 begging "SOME1 HELP ME KILL DURIEL PLZZZ", because there will be people running MF games that they can just jump into.

[konfeta]

Yup. On the other hand, it will open up a new breed of players.

"Hey, sweet, I got a Windforce!"

"PLZPZLPZLPZLZPGIMIGIGMEIGIGMGIMGIGMEIGMEGIMEE!!!!!"

"Screw you, I wanted this thing forever."

"THIS IS *** BLIZZ MADE PICKIT USELESS **** BLIZZARRD!"

[sicilian]

I think this is a great idea. I play primarily with my brother in law who is dyslexic, so when a lot of things drop, I can weed through it pretty easily while he has to take the time to read it.

We're pretty good about splitting things up between us, but it's always better when people are on even footing.

[ProfessionalBerg]

It's not a difficult concept to get your head around.

Instead of Diablo dropping 8 items for everyone to try to jack, each person will get their own separate drop from Diablo. It doesn't matter if you are in a party or solo, you get the same items. All it means is that Diablo drops his loot twice, once for each player so they don't compete.

Pretty much. Guild Wars has a similar systems, but there the items are greyed out for the players that they are not assigned to.