View Full Version : Classic PVM Barbs.
Ever since 1.10, and primarily compared to 1.09, untwinked physical damage has suffered greatly. With the life increase and physical resistance monsters now have in Hell, gone are the days when every up and coming barb could sell his modest magic findings and roll a Cruel Colossus Blade, and be a force to be reckoned with. The ones that truly stuck out had The Grandfather. The cows fell swiftly, oh did they. Then 1.10+ comes along, and we get nice synergies, new runewords, and greatly increased monster life/resistance. The problem for a Barb is though, these synergies did nothing with respect to his primary damage skill - Whirlwind. Couple this with the fact that items weren't buffed, and it becomes apparent he's at a huge disadvantage compared to before. In multiplayer games, with the exception of the very best runewords, kill rates are terribly slow for the poor Barbarian now.
Enough with my little rant. Now my question, is the same true now for classic? Could I make my great sword barb, level him up to a respectable level and happily whirl through cows like I once did? Or will he, like in LOD, just be a leeching buff barb?
For those who don't like to read: With respect to other classes, in Classic, can a Barb be an effective killer while chaosing, or is he going to be just a leecher/buffer like he is in LOD (unless he's geared to the teeth, which defeats the point in my opinion)
Intolerance
28-06-2008, 06:33
Yeah, I don't understand why WW was so completely nerfed, yet Blessed Hammer was made godly. What's the point in that, Blizz?
I just started HC Classic last week with the intention of building a WW Barb myself. I plan on using Goblin Toe to supplement the mediocre damage I'll be doing until I can find a decent weapon. Whether or not this will work is yet to be determined.
Classic barbs have an advantage that LOD barbs do not have. Whirl wind is 4fps regardless of weapon or ias. So that Two handed Martel de Fer swings at the same attack speed of that of a dagger of quickness.
Realize that classic, while not more difficult, has a different edge to it. Is a PvM barbarian in classic going to dish out as much damage as a BOTD swinging, Grief wielding of LOD no, however it can viably kill in hell with a simple overlooked unique called bonesnap.
A barbarian in classic can kill hell CS in the following gear
Helm- 3 P Topaz Mask
Ammy- Angelics
Armor- Angelics
Rings-Angelics
Weapon- Rare Martel or Bonesnap
Boots- Rare with tri resi
Gloves- Hands of Broc (Dual leach)
Belt- Goldwrap
How do I know, I've done it. The PvM barbarian in classic is exactly what you're looking for. If you would like to join over to classic I suggest USEast Classic Ladder. I would be more than happy to assist you. I'm not rich, nor close to it, but I could come up with the rushes, gear, and advice you would need.
If you're interested let me know.
EagleEntek
28-06-2008, 12:13
I had great success with my executioner sword barb, mainly by boosting the strength figure to 200+.
Seems this is the thing to do though - a titan if you will - simply by looking at the base stats for each character it becomes obvious that this is the way this character is supposed to be built.
After all, battle orders will boost your life and mana, and the barbs base strength gives him impressive damage - why shouldnt any type of barb build be suitable for combat?
*minor point - except throwers - never seen one at lvl 80 that could actually kill things in 8 player game - screenshots welcomed for dmg comparisons etc*
WW still rules in classic. You wont find any frenzy barbs, def barbs, or any of that nonsense here. Just get either Bsnap or some crushing blow (goblin toe for PvM due to rattlecage flee effect).
Btw I'm sry I didnt read your post correctly. To answer your question, barb have to leech in CS, not because he cant kill though, he can kill well with cheap gear, but because of Iron Maiden. If the high lvl xp zone would be in cows for example barb would be good/decent killer.
Btw I'm sry I didnt read your post correctly. To answer your question, barb have to leech in CS, not because he cant kill though, he can kill well with cheap gear, but because of Iron Maiden. If the high lvl xp zone would be in cows for example barb would be good/decent killer.
While you're right that a barb cannot and probably should not kill during CS Runs, where Pallys and Sorcs blitz to the seals, a barb can solo CS if they do so intelligently.
My barb last ladder so with great effect.
For those who don't like to read: With respect to other classes, in Classic, can a Barb be an effective killer while chaosing, or is he going to be just a leecher/buffer like he is in LOD (unless he's geared to the teeth, which defeats the point in my opinion)
Hmm, next time maybe start with this line and then rant on ^^
Anyway, cow drops and exp has also been nerfed and therefore pvm barbs only real obtion is to do flyern/travi runs with lower level and river runsto reach 90 (champpion urdars yeald great exp) if they really want to kill and not succumb to carefull ww:ing in cs. None can keep up such vigilance long and you will end up dead sooneror later with a cs ww barb.
Bonesnap wont cut it in 6 ppl games for river runs. Imo U need kicky martel, toes + titan build to make that work. Anyway i honestly can't say that i know lot of pvm ww barbs on classic. Most are buffers, poppers or build for pvp. Although, one can say that a trav barb geared for mf or gf is pvm. Atleast i separate mfer from pvm.
fledgeling
30-06-2008, 10:19
I have no clue how does my trav barb die sometimes; his life drops from 5/6 to 0 in like 1 second. Someone smart (Orphan?) has posted that the lightning enchant+aura bug has been fixed in hell and that's not it, methinks, as I have experienced the bug in nightmare few times. Does lag cause this? Sometimes the bottles do not work when I press 1,2,3; but often they work and my barb still dies. The stranger thing is the fact that my barb can die during whirlwinding - and now I have 10% life leech from ring and martel(thanks Monzee!). Any ideas what causes this?
The barb has died without enemy conviction aura and his FR is 90 (I prefer hotspurrs to goblins/rare boots).
WarlockCC
30-06-2008, 10:35
There is the Fire Enchanted bug which was still 'working' in 1.11 nightmare last time I tried.
It causes a corpse explosion that not even a life barb with 95 fire res can survive. This only happens once every so often, but it was always a good reason to keep my barb away from nightmare Travincial.
As for Hell, I don't know, I have full(75) fire and lightning res on my barb, but I still have to take them one at a time because they seem to do so much physical damage.
I have no clue how does my trav barb die sometimes; his life drops from 5/6 to 0 in like 1 second. Someone smart (Orphan?) has posted that the lightning enchant+aura bug has been fixed in hell and that's not it, methinks, as I have experienced the bug in nightmare few times. Does lag cause this? Sometimes the bottles do not work when I press 1,2,3; but often they work and my barb still dies. The stranger thing is the fact that my barb can die during whirlwinding - and now I have 10% life leech from ring and martel(thanks Monzee!). Any ideas what causes this?
The barb has died without enemy conviction aura and his FR is 90 (I prefer hotspurrs to goblins/rare boots).
Maybe post the gear and stat allocation you use? Last ladder i used a 200 base str trav barb and with 15 life leech, little stacked res on light and fire (gf barb) seemed to be nice enough 4 me (martel was 'only' 283 bet Monzee dontaed better one 4 u). Anyway, life leech is the key i prefer to have it 15 -> tend to die sometimes with mere 10. If only sc then 10 is enough if you don't mind dying once a week or so.
Don't think that any bug in trav right now. Only that dying in middle of a ww sounds weird...
EagleEntek
30-06-2008, 12:38
Fire+lightning / fire+cold / fire+cold+lightning enchanted monsters will always do 2x / 3x more damage to you if you attack them.
This bug has NOT been fixed - i guarantee it...
I'm not sure what you mean about it being bug. I always thought it was meant to be that way. Only nm trav carries the instant death bug that used to be in hell too.
Brings back nice memories of multienchantedlightning bosses. They were serious threat even in nm with a 80 lv sorc back in 1.06 iirc...
fledgeling
30-06-2008, 13:52
Maybe post the gear and stat allocation you use? Last ladder i used a 200 base str trav barb and with 15 life leech, little stacked res on light and fire (gf barb) seemed to be nice enough 4 me (martel was 'only' 283 bet Monzee dontaed better one 4 u). Anyway, life leech is the key i prefer to have it 15 -> tend to die sometimes with mere 10. If only sc then 10 is enough if you don't mind dying once a week or so.
Don't think that any bug in trav right now. Only that dying in middle of a ww sounds weird...
Barb is a quite standard goldfind barb:
goldskin/tarn/goldwrap/chanceguards
angelic amulet +1 ring; the second ring is 25fr/25cr/dual leech/ar/39gf
martel was 240 with poison damage and now 25x with dual leech from Monzee
As for stats he is level 80 now (my other barb got deleted dont ask), with 200 str, 220 (?) vita; ~10 into item find (something like 42%) and around 8 into natural resists (42% too as far as I remember); 20BO;20mastery; 20ww, 1 into berserk (I decided to use it actually) and 1into increased speed
Barb is a quite standard goldfind barb:
goldskin/tarn/goldwrap/chanceguards
angelic amulet +1 ring; the second ring is 25fr/25cr/dual leech/ar/39gf
martel was 240 with poison damage and now 25x with dual leech from Monzee
As for stats he is level 80 now (my other barb got deleted dont ask), with 200 str, 220 (?) vita; ~10 into item find (something like 42%) and around 8 into natural resists (42% too as far as I remember); 20BO;20mastery; 20ww, 1 into berserk (I decided to use it actually) and 1into increased speed
I use similar set, but instead of angelics i go completely for rares. With deacent martel (25x should be good enough) lowish ar does not hinder you much and you can wring some extra gf + ress and leech from amulet and ring. Try to get 15 for leech. That seems to be the brakepoint for my barb to leech back enough. Light res is good to be stacked too since quite often you will run to conviction boss in trav.
The dying during the ww is still a mystery. Sounds like lag to me. Have you checked your ping lately? Has this happened to you before the new patch etc.?
Fearlessone
01-07-2008, 08:46
I found this out when an old friend gave me his LoD pvp account. The ww barb was amazingly powerless. I've played with ww'ers anyway and they claim that most of their damage was due to the simple crushing blow mod. Think of it: u spend all those 20 points in weapmast and 20 in ww and get a superduper weapon and get all that strength and dex to hit things with and maybe even a good bit of ias. And you still cant kill worth crap!
Barbs here can be frenzy, but its hard. Berserk is even harder, but do-able. Warcry is ok. Stompers and poppers have a place. You could in theory do more than just stand around and bo and pop in cs runs, but 95% of the people here dont have the guts to make slow cs runs and actually enforce them: kicking out the sorc/pal that dont respect the game name. So you can ww up to lvl 92 or so in hell cs games, but its rarely done. Possible.
Gone are the days of river of flame clearing in 8 player games IMO. One of my old babas have 310 dmg lance and it will take a long time to clear one pack.. then the lance is broken.
I think goblin toes could help out.. and prevent monster heal. Also mace is the strongest one now i suppose.. it has better durability.
Anyways you can fly thru flayer jungle up to lvl 80 at least things get more difficult in act4 with mobs getting a lot more hp.
With CS I think its not very easy there.. i've been doing some of that with my vita speed lancer.. he has 5k HP and can barely survive ww + iron maiden.
Also did some with my S/S barb.. wearing shield its going ok but the damage isn't great.
I leveled up my barb to 88 from clearing cs in multiplayer games. It's possible and you get great drops!
Maybe great exp (if you don't die) but for drops u need to be in party and those party members need to be in cs with you to get the full benefit of full game.
Titan build with kicky martel and gobs can clear river. But its not like it used be. I don't like it anymore in these resent patches, but if you want pvm barb Martel titan is the way to go Imo. with martels dura (60) is not so bad but try to find one with leech over 280 and tri dura. Not very common :)
To have a decent speed while exping, you really need the support from a pala with concentration and/or from Enchant. Martel is the best weapon class by far these days. OW and CB help a bit, but only if you're alone in some game. In a full game, the bonus gets diminished and becomes useless.
For CS runs, the only thing you can do (from my experience) is:
get an ITD weapon (Skewer of Krintiz for example), enchant and some DGTM items such as the Angelic set (this is needed for AR anyway) or Nightsmoke. Also, lots of healing pots. And then start whirling away at mages and stranglers, ignore everything else and hope the party will clear the rest. ;)
Works in full games and you'll be immune to IM.
as someone stated before, a smart barb can clear cs quite readily, if intelligent.
ive used several builds before in cs. best one imo must include leap and war cry, they come into play frequently. to keep this short, even using a decent snap 160+ hell cs isnt that bad. leaping into packs, stunning the mages ].
stun and then, only then ww them. as long as u dont have im on your head, u can effectively stun and run around. think of having a 3 second pause for reality, just u dont stop and they do, heck u can sit there and just stun till curses wear off :). its pretty scary but i used this technique in hc and it worked [2.5 sec+ stun]. u just have to know when to get cursed to override im, or where to leap and when to stun. its really cool to make cs runs without a pally. short ww's never hurt either. now, ive used better items than those that was just a min suggestion,one of best setup ive used, 28x 7/5 leech mart, 5-6/5-4 2x leech rings, gobs, +2 18 str 4 ml fr ammy, 24 fhr 17 str 57 life 20+ 2x res shark belt, sigon helm and gloves :P.
if you make a barb right, you can have them do just about anything. clear cs,stun and tank in cs, goldfind mf/popper, bo [ i skip shout :) sorry],rush,powerlvl,quest, etc... some you can do all at the same time...it just takes a few skill points to a few certain skills[some only require a few points i.e. item find/nat res/war cry. sorry for the rant yall but for the people reading that dont know, barbs can rip anything anywhere a new one. o yah, they have massive life/dmg/resists. i call that type of barb the swiss army barb. [I]patent pending on the name :)
There is the Fire Enchanted bug which was still 'working' in 1.11 nightmare last time I tried.
It causes a corpse explosion that not even a life barb with 95 fire res can survive. This only happens once every so often, but it was always a good reason to keep my barb away from nightmare Travincial.
As for Hell, I don't know, I have full(75) fire and lightning res on my barb, but I still have to take them one at a time because they seem to do so much physical damage.
Hehe, yes it is. I lost a hardcore barb from that bug about 6 months ago.
Fire+lightning / fire+cold / fire+cold+lightning enchanted monsters will always do 2x / 3x more damage to you if you attack them.
This bug has NOT been fixed - i guarantee it...
Btw I think this is not a bug. I think they added this feature in 1.10. All the elemental modifiers the special mobs have are added to their attacks and now also to LE. The bolts also carry the fire and cold ench attacks. These are really deadly in hell if u have bad resists. Also some scarab packs with triple ench in A2 are dangerous since they all emit the bolts and there are lots of them sometimes.
The fire ench thing was something in 1.10 also i think. It used to scale with mob hp or such but soon they fixed in hell mode at least. It was pretty much instant death in hell mode when u killed a fire ench. But I think they didn't touch how it is in nightmare.. so in nightmare these are still quite dangerous. I have one lod char in this ladder and a paladin in the party with BO on died on madawec in nightmare ancients when it exploded. The ancients have a lot more hp than basic mobs.. same goes for council members i suppose.
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