Blizzard should streamline the content of D3!!!!

[Gallant One]

Instead of beating the complete game on 3 difficulty levels as in past games, Blizz needs to streamline all three difficulty levels into one game. Let me explain. Break the game down into 3 ACTS (with loads of quests). Act 1 would be "normal" difficulty (maybe takes place in the realm). You could level up here until around your mid 30's if you choose. Act 2 would be like "nightmare" (maybe takes place in heaven). You could level to you mid 60's if you choose. Finally, ACT 3 would culminate in Hell with a battle against Diablo. Of course since you are literally in Hell, the diffuclty level would be "hell' (no pun intended). :) You could finish the game anywhere from your mid 80's to 99 (or higher if Bizz wanted to). I think stream-lining the story would eliminate the redundancing of playing through all three difficulty levels over and over again. Also, there would be more of a sense of accomplishment in that beating the game is tied in with leveling your character. It won't seem as "mindless." Once you complete the game, you could jump through any act to MF or level up. What do you think???

PS: Any add-ons (additional Acts) would be "hell" level, because your character would be high level anyway.

[Kiroptus]

Nah I like the normal/nightmare/hell mode. It just needs some additions like what Titan Quest did: Extra secret bosses and some monsters learn some new tricks then it seems like a fresh new quest.

I always find it fun to see familiar faces (being it bosses or normal monsters) stronger and with new tricks. So the overall content lasts longer.

[Ceebee]

I actually think it's an alright idea, it could make sense storywise as well.

Norm difficulty, fighting demons in the mortal world.
Nightmare diffi, fight demons in heaven (being chosen to help repell the attack, due to your efforts on the ground)
Hell diffi, fighting demons in hell (because you proved your worth by helping in the defence, now you can begin the offensive.

[Sacrificer]

Yeah, that would be pretty epic.

[MrCanon]

Instead of beating the complete game on 3 difficulty levels as in past games, Blizz needs to streamline all three difficulty levels into one game. Let me explain. Break the game down into 3 ACTS (with loads of quests). Act 1 would be "normal" difficulty (maybe takes place in the realm). You could level up here until around your mid 30's if you choose. Act 2 would be like "nightmare" (maybe takes place in heaven). You could level to you mid 60's if you choose. Finally, ACT 3 would culminate in Hell with a battle against Diablo. Of course since you are literally in Hell, the diffuclty level would be "hell' (no pun intended). :) You could finish the game anywhere from your mid 80's to 99 (or higher if Bizz wanted to). I think stream-lining the story would eliminate the redundancing of playing through all three difficulty levels over and over again. Also, there would be more of a sense of accomplishment in that beating the game is tied in with leveling your character. It won't seem as "mindless." Once you complete the game, you could jump through any act to MF or level up. What do you think???

PS: Any add-ons (additional Acts) would be "hell" level, because your character would be high level anyway.
Oh dear god no.

what's with all these awful suggestion lately ?
no difficulty settings, no potion chugging, no town portals...

It won't be Diablo anymore if you change it this much.

Diablo 2 is almost -THE- perfect online ARPG.
just add a few things from next generation games (shared stash, mail,auction house, etc) and you'll have Diablo 3.

[thedrizzle]

Maybe some people want diablo 3 not diablo 2.5

[zooply]

I don't care much for the idea myself cause one of the things I'm hoping for in D3 is that the map is one solid piece as opposed to D2 where instead of walking to Lut Gholein, you'd be sent to Act 2: Lut Gholein. Plus it wouldn't make too much sense to have Heaven as nightmare difficulty and Hell as.... um... hell. If that were the case Hell would already sitting in the clouds right now. A fix to that could be that for Heaven you start at the front lines, and for hell you get sent deep into the center.

I would prefer instead 3 maps: Earth, Heaven, and Hell. They would all be separate maps, each with various areas of difficulty. Traveling between worlds would require access points. To reach Hell you'd have to go through tombs, fissures, caves, etc. For heaven you'd go to a church, shrines, or by hitting blocks with vines. If they are on different 'planes' then of course it'd just be portal shrines.

[Merick]

I would prefer two difficulties. Normal and nightmare just aren't different enough, and asking people to go through the game three times is a bit much.

[Es Mors]

The reason for keeping the difficulty levels is beyond me. Forcing people to play through the same content three times in order for them to finish the game? What is this, a NES game? Doom 1?

[Opeeq]

I like zooply's idea with the 3 planes

It would also be great if there were no static points of entrance to other planes, like waypoints or quest portals. Instead you would have to search for a portal shrine on your plane to go to the other planes. Or something like that

This would require some thinking though, how it would work and all

[garef]

Instead of beating the complete game on 3 difficulty levels as in past games, Blizz needs to streamline all three difficulty levels into one game. Let me explain. Break the game down into 3 ACTS (with loads of quests). Act 1 would be "normal" difficulty (maybe takes place in the realm). You could level up here until around your mid 30's if you choose. Act 2 would be like "nightmare" (maybe takes place in heaven). You could level to you mid 60's if you choose. Finally, ACT 3 would culminate in Hell with a battle against Diablo. Of course since you are literally in Hell, the diffuclty level would be "hell' (no pun intended). :) You could finish the game anywhere from your mid 80's to 99 (or higher if Bizz wanted to). I think stream-lining the story would eliminate the redundancing of playing through all three difficulty levels over and over again. Also, there would be more of a sense of accomplishment in that beating the game is tied in with leveling your character. It won't seem as "mindless." Once you complete the game, you could jump through any act to MF or level up. What do you think???

PS: Any add-ons (additional Acts) would be "hell" level, because your character would be high level anyway.All this will result in no interest replaying the game. Why? Because if you finish the game lvl80 then if you replay act3 then you will get what? 2 levels?And the other acts would be totally boring to replay with a character much stronger than the first time you played it.

[Kiroptus]

But its nice to see famliar faces and scenarios adequated to your level. For example: I love Act1, its has lots of open areas and the action is fast. If this was done, after I level up I can forget about Act1 completely because the level diference would be too high. With the difficult system, when I get to hell, I can do some runs on act1 itself.


I think the difficult system should stay, its just that the levels and the monsters' abilities should change more on higher difficult levels. Maybe more unique monsters as well, like Manticore, Hydra and Talos in Titan quest, big nasty unique monsters that could spawn only in higher difficults.

[Dirkw]

But its nice to see famliar faces and scenarios adequated to your level. For example: I love Act1, its has lots of open areas and the action is fast. If this was done, after I level up I can forget about Act1 completely because the level diference would be too high. With the difficult system, when I get to hell, I can do some runs on act1 itself.


What if, in d3, if the new idea of 'streamlining' was done, you disliked all the early parts but liked the later ones? Would there still be a problem? Guess you'd be more than happy to forget about act 1 then =).

I somewhat like how it is now, because as you can especially notice with a frozen orb sorceress, it's great to note how tough the game in normal was and how you can all of a sudden mow through things with ease on nightmare.

I think that part of d2 is pretty great. But it's too bad that this aspect isn't really well executed or balanced for all classes because some classes (barb, melee pala, ...) don't pick up steam as much as others do.

[Kiroptus]

What if, in d3, if the new idea of 'streamlining' was done, you disliked all the early parts but liked the later ones? Would there still be a problem? Guess you'd be more than happy to forget about act 1 then =)

Yeah but if I didnt? What if the only option was to stay in the final act? The rest of the game soon will become obsolete. With the difficult modes you can revisit the acts with a diferent take on it. In D2 you can find good stuff in act1 hell or go to high level TC areas like the Pit and the Mausoleum and Crypt, you can go to act4 Chaos sanct as well, etc...

Difficult modes are a good concept that can be worked on. Just add more stuff when in nightmare and hell mode, give lots of new tricks to the boss acts (with the streamline idea, the cool and well-designed bosses soon become worthless, and again: its good to see familiar faces stronger and with new tricks).

[Dirkw]

What I'm saying is... Your point boils down to taste, and you may be lucky or you may not.
If you liked one act but disliked all the others, you'd wish for all the others acts to be like the first one.
There's no estimating the chances of you becoming satisfied with 12 different acts, as opposed to 3x4 different acts.

What we have to look for is the distinct difference between properties of a streamlined concept (repeating the same maps for a few times) and properties of a straightforward series of different maps. One of those is that in a 'streamlined' design, you wouldn't be able to explore earlier-visted area's with another level of relative strength.

[Kiroptus]

But what about the bosses? Its cool to see them scale with your power. If everything is streamlined into one single big journey with no diff modes, not only the main quest would be way too long but many of the cool act bosses would never scale back to your power and soon will be forgotten and limited just to low level characters.

I have a hard time picturing a diablo game journey without difficult modes. Unless its an open MMO like WoW. But then... if it mimics WoW it would hardly resemble diablo anyway.

[Dirkw]

But what about the bosses? Its cool to see them scale with your power. If everything is streamlined into one single big journey with no diff modes, not only the main quest would be way too long but many of the cool act bosses would never scale back to your power and soon will be forgotten and limited just to low level characters.


Which was exactly my point :thumbup:

The question is: what other things are there to consider?

[Kiroptus]

I think Titan Quest showed how cool dificult modes can be when its well-done. The big bad boss: Talos, is a big giant automaton that is deactivated when you pass through him in normal mode. But in legendary mode, he awakes and you have one of the hardest battles in the game. Those surprises need to be explored.

[sicilian]

The reason for keeping the difficulty levels is beyond me. Forcing people to play through the same content three times in order for them to finish the game? What is this, a NES game? Doom 1?

No, in D2 you don't have to go through the content 3 times to finish the game either... you only go through it once. The story concludes after normal.

If you make it so you have to go through the equivalent of Normal, Nightmare, and Hell just to progress through the story, it would take the fun out of character customization. In order to finish the game on Hell in D2, you really had to specialize your character, you couldn't make use of all the fun "toys" a class had to offer. You could get away with spreading out your points and still complete the game on normal (thus finding out what happens), but for the real challenge you had to be more strategic.

I like it that way.

[lumpor]

I don't really think they made several difficulties because it's more fun. I think it's because it would take too long time to make 81 individual quests and 15 individual acts. I'm not saying blizzard are lazy or cheap. It's just that all proffesional gaming companies have a deadline and a budget. And if they spend too much money making a game, the profit will decrease. And making games IS for making money after all. It would be better if all quests were different, but either the game would become short, or too expensive to make

[tyranius]

I like this stream idea but as some people said you'd never return to that act.

What if the strength of the monsters was set according to the number and level of the players in the game? This would make rushing harder because even you rushing someone through act 1 would be a burden.

[SteveTodd]

Of course the last post in the thread would mention what I was thinking...why not have a constant difficulty level tied to the player's level? Rushing would be a pain, you could run any area and get the same exp, and drops would more frequent.

[Verashiden]

Scale monsters to game creators level? Would keep you from cake walking through the game as much.

[smartdot]

what you have to keep in mind is that blizzard is in business to make money. the proposed format would limit because forcing people to reach lvl 80+ to finish the game while still being effective is very discouraging to beginners. I remember my first char, and assassin the did 100-200 a hit... i cant imagine having to spend so long leveling just to see the story line...

[Vizian]

Scale monsters to game creators level? Would keep you from cake walking through the game as much.


We're not making Oblivion here.

[Llama8]

Scale monsters to game creators level? Would keep you from cake walking through the game as much.

Not if a lvl 1 char created the game & then a high level char rushed them through.

People will always find ways to play a game how they want to (often faster & easier) rather than how the creators think they will.

[tyranius]

Still, streamlining is better. If it wasn't for rush I would have stop playing D2 (I usually play normal and nightmare twinked then ask for rush in hell because I get tired of doing the quests 3 times). Doing things 3 times over and over gets boring.

[sicilian]

Of course the last post in the thread would mention what I was thinking...why not have a constant difficulty level tied to the player's level? Rushing would be a pain, you could run any area and get the same exp, and drops would more frequent.

I've always hated games like this... part of the fun is seeing an enemy you can't beat, then getting stronger, going back and finally beating it. If the monsters keep getting tougher, you never get that satisfying, "I am the warrior god!" feeling. Everything becomes a chore :P

[sicilian]

Still, streamlining is better. If it wasn't for rush I would have stop playing D2 (I usually play normal and nightmare twinked then ask for rush in hell because I get tired of doing the quests 3 times). Doing things 3 times over and over gets boring.

If that parts boring to you, why play it at all? Can't be for the accomplishment if you're getting rushed.

[SteveTodd]

I've always hated games like this... part of the fun is seeing an enemy you can't beat, then getting stronger, going back and finally beating it. If the monsters keep getting tougher, you never get that satisfying, "I am the warrior god!" feeling. Everything becomes a chore :P

There is a fine line there. They would have to make it so you had to pay attention to what you are doing at all times instead of just running around with Frenzy on right click (as an example). Then every kill becomes an "I am the warrior god" feeling.

[tyranius]

Not if a lvl 1 char created the game & then a high level char rushed them through.

People will always find ways to play a game how they want to (often faster & easier) rather than how the creators think they will.

I didnt say the lvl of the char that created would set the monster's strength. I said that as soon as players entered the game would see their lvls and THEN set the monster's strength. So if a player lvl 1 created the game and a lvl 99 joins the monsters get a lot stronger.

[Lyrs]

Everything except the storyline (Acts, locations) are already stream lined.

[stillman]

Here's what I figgure:
In d2 when you go from end of normal to start of nm, it seems nm is not much harder. Nightmare mode is just like starting off where act 5 normal ended (in terms of difficulty). In contrast, going from end of nm to hell mode is a huge difference. Hell mode is REALLY much harder than nm and you notice this when you go over to whack your first fallen or quillrat.

Now, I think many of us find it annoying to have to complete the game again in nm since difficulty-wise, it is simply cruising through the game again. In fact, for some caster builds nm is actually easier than normal because you have more invested in your skill trees than you had in normal. That said, I also believe players enjoy getting slammed with the challenges of hell mode. To conclude, imo, people don't like repeating the game in nm because it's too easy and not distinguished enough from normal, but people love repeating the game in hell mode because, well, it's a whole new game in hell mode with all those challenges (almost all monsters with immunes for example).

So I figgure many of us would want d3 to keep the difficulties; HOWEVER, each difficulty must be a new playing experience separate from the previous difficulties. "Nightmare" mode must really be a complete nightmare for begginers just finishing normal. So each difficulty should be terribly more challenging than the previous.

One thing I never liked about d2 was the "cakewalking" through the easier difficulties when your chr is too overpowered to be there. It certainly has contributed to rushing. This may sound crazy, but I would prefer a rule in d3 where once you enter then next difficulty, you can never go back to the previous one(s) with that character. Of course, you would get a big warning about it before you do so and you'd have to check a box saying you agree to this. If you chose not to, you can continue leveling in the difficulty you just beat until you feel ready to start the next difficulty. There would also have to be a new way to mule (xfer) items without changing difficulties, like having access to a vault while not in game where you can store items from all your characters.

So I'd like to see the 3 difficulties remain in d3, but with more than subtle differences like ubbers and imune problems, and maybe some other ideas that would make each difficulty stand out.

[tyranius]

Stillman, streamlining is much better. Restraining a character from going back to a previous difficulty would be restraining someone to play the game in areas they wanted. What if I wanted to go back to that difficulty to see a particular boss. I think my idea that monster's strength would be set according to the level and number of players in the game is the way to go.

[Kiroptus]

Stillman, streamlining is much better. Restraining a character from going back to a previous difficulty would be restraining someone to play the game in areas they wanted. What if I wanted to go back to that difficulty to see a particular boss. I think my idea that monster's strength would be set according to the level and number of players in the game is the way to go.

sorry but i really think its not. It didnt work with oblivion. It took all the magic from the game like that because there were no challanges and no feeling of being powerful. Plus the game heavily punished you if you didnt have the optimal build ready because there was no going back to lesser areas to farm/lvl up.

Why it took all the magic? Simple. Because it feels that the world is "your" little world. Which keeps adapting to you to make you feel happy. This isnt good because what should happen is the other way around. Its YOU who must adapt to the challenges of the world. The difficult system adds 3 layers to make that adaptations to the world.

So if a Lv1 created the game and then a lv 99 entered his game and BOOM, all monsters would insta kill the lv1 character. It would be a great fun to ruin hardcore players' characters like that. Pretty much hardcore would have to be all private games.

It was tried recently in HGL, in the stonehenge areas. It does exactly that, the monsters scale to the highest player's level in the instance. Many hardcore characters died instantly when a higher character joined their group. And if a high lvl joins your game what will you do? kick him from the game? that option was never present in diablo. Fight him? impossible.

Streamlining to the players level is a horrible option. Sorry.

[CallMeTheSpelunker]

@Tyranius: The problem with the "monsters' level is the average of all players' levels" logic is that idiots who just want to piss people off will join a "Act 1 Start" game with their lvl 90 character, thus making it impossible for the lvl 1's to kill anything. If you set level restrictions so high-levels couldn't enter, it could possibly be a better solution.

Personally, I'd prefer for the monsters to stay constant in toughness as well. I remember in Morrowind, when I first fought an Ascended Sleeper, I got my butt handed to me on a silver platter, with blight disease to boot. However, by the end of the game I was just charging and slashing and owning my enemies no matter their level! They scaled monsters' difficulty in Oblivion though, which was a major drag... suddenly your level 30 character still flinched when a wolf got in his way. :(

I'd prefer something like what people are appreciating in Titan Quest (although I've never heard of that game). A more complex storyline that leads you on large journeys and finally back into old towns for new reasons... the storyline resembling a mess of overpasses in front of an airport... THAT is the kind of game I would drool over. Morrowind had it, Oblivion's attachment to the cities of the game was much less.

Any way you slice it I'm excited for D3.

[SandyVagina]

I completey agree with Kiroptus and CallMeTheSpelunker, monster scaling is an extremely bad idea. As mentioned it utterly destroyed Oblivion.

Here's what I figgure:
So I figgure many of us would want d3 to keep the difficulties; HOWEVER, each difficulty must be a new playing experience separate from the previous difficulties. "Nightmare" mode must really be a complete nightmare for begginers just finishing normal. So each difficulty should be terribly more challenging than the previous.


Yes, yes, yes! As you say, nm is way too easy for most characters. I just teleported straight trough with my blizzsorc, but then i got to hell and got tons of cold immunes thrown in my face. I always get a bit surprised at how hard hell is compared to nm. Basically I want D3 to be a harder game to complete for any character. It would be awesome to get your *** kicked by a fallen in nm-mode and then later on in hell.


One thing I never liked about d2 was the "cakewalking" through the easier difficulties when your chr is too overpowered to be there.

This is something I do like about the game and it would be even better if the game was harder. As I said it would be cool to actually get your behind kicked by a fallen in A1 nm. Think about how awesome it would be to go back there and simply annihilate that little bugger when you are strong enough. The feeling of actually getting stronger is an important factor for me in this kind of game. Being able to go back to anywhere you have previously been and own everything is, in lack of better terms, super-cool.

Anyway, the streamlining idea isn't really that bad, but I don't think it would work very well. I think the game would be too long actually and.. well.. I don't know, just don't like it that much. For me, hell difficulty in D2 has always been the way the game is meant to be played. The fact that the game is hard from start to finish makes it more realistic and generally a better experience. In D3 I hope every difficulty feels, literally, like hell. This won't happen obviously, beacuse it will scare most people away, but it sure would have been awesome.

[Omikron8]

don't fix what isn't broken

action RPG gameplay need multiple difficulty levels