View Full Version : Limited Uniques?
Last thread for the day and ill stop spamming them, but I have a question for you guys.
This is kind of like WoW, but i think would be so cool if it was implemented over to Diablo.
An earlier thread kind of barely touched upon it, but say that Blizzard made the stone of jordan and only made 4 of them ever drop in the entire world of Diablo. (or like 20, just SOME kind of small number). So each realm East, West, EU would all have 20 SoJs and when all of them were found, they would never drop again in the game.
So if this was implemented in D2, there would be a good chunk of the mediocre Uniques that could be spawned endlessly, and a handful of the best gear in the game that has a limit on how many times it was dropped. This way, blizzard could not only keep tracking of duping, but think how awesome it would be when you found something like that, or saved up and traded for one.
What do you guys think? It would have to be the best in the game, but would put the dedicated players above the rest
If you have any ideas like a trial or tribulation youd have to go to get it, im all open, any news ideas welcome
I for one like it....But IMO...all uniques should be one of a kinds or get rid of them completely. I would like to see all the cookie -cutters gone and the first place would be to rid everyone having the same equipment. Replace most uniques with ultra-rares. Like rares but even more random rolls.
*swt41
well. they need to just get rid of the word unique. it never applied.
Ok, so you change the uniques to Rares, the rares the magic, and the uniques you limit the number of possibilities per realm
stillman
03-06-2008, 03:09
I think this thread may be about my post in the "Here's my idea for D3" thread. I'll post it again here:
To make uniques "really" unique, how about these 2 ideas:
1-Lets say you have a unique called ravenfrost. When joining games, your chr with ravenfrost cannot ever join a game that already has a chr with ravenfrost. There can never be more than one ravenfrost in one game. Also, it cannot drop in your game unless you xfer it or use a chr who doesn't have it. This idea would allow more variety in the chrs in partys, instead of everyone in the game having and using the best items in the same games.
2-There are exactly, let's say, 1500 different versions of "ravenfrost". No 2 copies are ever the same; the game only allows a copy to spawn with different AR/dex mods than all the ones that have already spawed. So after a point, there will likely be all 1500 different possible ravenfrosts on USEAST. Then, there will have to be something like cube recipies or some idea where you can sacrifice a ravenfrost to craft another item. The unique gets destroyed and again it is allowed to spawn in the realms. So this idea would make each unique truely unique because you would know it is the only one in the realms with those exact mods. Obviously, the designers would have to have to make enough varying mods on each unique to allow for X number of copies, whatever number they want. So the godliest uniques might only have 100 or even 10 copies! Wouldn't you feel special if you had one?
So, talking about the 2nd idea, one of the reasons I posted that was because back in 1.08 or 9, some scammer showed me 12 sojs (which he probably scammed from others). At that moment, the game, and the item soj, seemed to mean a lot less to me. He had the promise of being able to dupe my items for me, but I asked him to give me an soj since it was so easy, and that was the end of his scam (he wouldn't hand one over, so apparently, he could not dupe them).
The point is to make the unique items special, and not have them turn into garbage as time progresses. I never thought of how it could help regulate possible dupes, but that is a good application. Also, it would indeed separate the best players from average ones. It's funny how rares are more "unique" than uniques.
I wanted to add to the 1st idea that, if people think it's bad to not allow 2 ravenfrosts in one game, keep in mind that in D3, there may be loads of unique rings to choose from. 8 people in one game could all have their 2 unique rings each, but they would all be different uniques. You would know that this is one powerful hypothetical group too!
I always thought that in D2, they should have made a unique version of all items. For instance, there are only 3 unique elite gloves (I think). So a unique crusader gauntlet doesn't exist. In D3, there should be several unique forms of the same item type. For example, templar's might and Tyreal's might are both Sacred. Even though templar's is pretty bad, more unique forms in the game is good. So in D3 there could be infinte numbers of unique sacred armor droping, but only a small limited number could ever turn out to be Tyreal's. Maybe it should work that way for all items so that you would never loose the experience/excitement of finding a unique ring once all of the possilbe godly unique rings are in existance. So then, nagel could keep droping forever after every soj, all 1500 ravenfrosts, etc have droped.
Stillman-
Was totally about your thread :), I was just trying to make it the focus of one that could possibly attract more answers. I said an earlier thread mention this, that was me citing you! haha. Good stuff man, I think this is what D3 should do 100%.
think of how intense item finding would be! What if there was a website saying "only 1 more Windforce left to be found!" The chaos of people MFing would be AWESOME. It would be like Willy Wonka and the golden tickets haha
Your idea will ruin what diablo is about. Diablo is about the possibility that you can find good things all the time, and knowing that you will find them eventually. If you start putting limits on certain things, you will ruin the game of those that only play a short time each week.
All my characters would suck, there wouldn't be one that is hell viable. All items have to be possibly for everybody. Or you will ruin the variety that diablo has - it has variety if you don't look at the hammerdin/lightning sorcerers.
I like the items system the way it is, you still get the exiting feeling when you find good thing - i.e. my ist from flayer jungle. The only reason why so little people have this feeling today is because all good items are duped, thus they are to easy to find.
Kiroptus
03-06-2008, 08:04
I would like a return to classic D2 style: Uniques are useful and fancy but rares will turn out to be better so not everyone will have the same equipment.
Which is much more interesting than LoD where unique were buffed to the extreme and rares became ****.
Also, if the cube is back: More crafting options to make an actual decent gear with it.
I'd say, combine what we've had so far: have a few uniques be quest rewards (D1 single player) that serve as the minimum to survive, have useful but not overpowered uniques drop (D2 Classic/Expansion) and have rares/crafts be the potentially most powerful items (D2 classic).
Dorfoumous
03-06-2008, 11:52
ok.. so you limit the number of unqiues....ok you allow only 20 sojs..
With a couple hundred thousand of players playing.. 2 problems will arise.
1) Duped the XCORE!
2) Sojs will be worth a whole lot more, and thus unless you are really rich you aren't going to get those "unique" items. Face it not a chance.
A ridiclous idea if you ask me. I'd rather deal with the duping then to have items limited, so you'll never have a chance of getting one. Ever. We already have a problem getting the infamous ZOD do you actually think you get anything of value?
Not to mention, whats the point?
I like the variety. It takes skill to change or do something completely different with your character and I like it that way. Sure a nooblet could buy the game build a cookie cutter and be very successful. But you can also be very successful with a way different build.
and I like it like that.
Who cares of there are 8 barbs with IK Gear all playing together.
Ilikestuff
03-06-2008, 12:42
I think cafting should be made more viable. that way, you'll more than likely get 8 chars with almost completely different items.
i've often thought about limiting the number of uniques, but then if i buy the game a year later than everyone else, i'm basically playing for the crap items, right? i dont like that :p
another thing i really hate are the generic builds you get. so many chars have the same build, and the same items, and its boring! do something original!!
i'd love to be able to spend as much time as we all spend MFing, but crafting instead, and FINALLY getting an awesome item!!
you guys are mis-understanding. The idea is to have the MAJORITY of uniques be the same as they are right now. So things like Skulders, Viper Magi, Titans, Occy, Runes (just as a brief example) are able to be found endlessly.
To suggest you cant be viable in hell without the BEST gear in the game is a complete and utter lie. All I am suggesting is that the absolute best goes into this category (and 20 of something was just an example) which would make it hard to be the "leetest" character in the game. That way anyone can have fun and beat hell, but you can only be the best if you put the time and effort into it.
Also this does not encourage duping. If there are 500 SoJs, then Blizzard gives them a special thumbprint and keeps track of all of them on their servers (you forget this is Diablo 3, we will have better support hopefully). If all of a sudden 501 SoJs exist, blizzard goes in, deletes the dupe, bans the person whos char it showed up on, banned the account and we are all happy shiny people
The only way I'd agree with this idea is if these limited items did not give a player any advantage gamewise.
Let's say they'd give you an aura or some other unique visual effect (or even just have a cool looking unique skin)- This way the hardcore crowd could have thier trophies without giving them an edge over casual players.
Anyway, elitism/leetness is bad imo, no need to encourage it.
The only way I'd agree with this idea is if these limited items did not give a player any advantage gamewise.
Let's say they'd give you an aura or some other unique visual effect (or even just have a cool looking unique skin)- This way the hardcore crowd could have thier trophies without giving them an edge over casual players.
Anyway, elitism/leetness is bad imo, no need to encourage it.
Agreed. I wouldn't mind uniques being truly unique, but what about those other 99% that didn't get those 20 soj? Sure finding items is about working for them, but it involves luck too, so somebody could work just as hard at mfing, but could never be as good gear-wise because of luck (and yes it is like that now, but true uniques would make it much harder to reconcile). Advantages in gear I don't mind from items that everyone can get, but not items only 20 people can get.
I think what could also work is uniques that are balanced (if Blizzard could pull it off). By this I mean the unique would have it's very own unique stats, yet it wouldn't be more powerful than a nice rare. This way you'd have a weapon nobody else can obtain, yet nobody would be put at a disadvantage. Maybe the uniques could even be designed to where they'd make a new build possible (again, hopefully balanced).
one problem i see with having a certain fixed number of uniques is that sometimes people go off and do toehr things ans they don't have a giveaway, their stuff just rots on the character for 90 days or more before disappearing
one problem i see with having a certain fixed number of uniques is that sometimes people go off and do toehr things ans they don't have a giveaway, their stuff just rots on the character for 90 days or more before disappearing
Well for that case blizzards would have a system to detect that & put the unique back into the fold for people to mf like crazy for.
yeah it would be a case of Char expires or not used in 30-60 days, then it could go back into the market.
Again, like i said before, it could be something other than just straight up magic finding to get these items. For example, say the SoJ is the BEST item in the game (for arguements sake in diablo 3) then say that it will ONLY be rollable if you have a char above level 97. And since its D3 no botting is available, it would only be from hard work and dedication. Something to PROVE that you deserve that item and its not just random for everybody. Then when X amount are found, tough cookies, you have to trade for one if you want it.
Also, I really like the ideas that rares should come into play more. They should make it where a char who gets some sick rolls with rares could be better equipped than a char with the best uniques in the game
Also, the 20 number was just used as an example. People can stop saying "well 99% of the community wouldnt have them then". Change the number then. It should be rare, but this is all fun and speculation, 20 isnt the law of the land...lol
As much as I don't like to compare WoW to Diablo, I think it would be cool if there were raid-type things, and a similar item system. What I hated about D2 was, if you wanted to do Ubers or something, you could make a smiter for about a HR, then go do it solo and not ever have to talk to the outside world again. I think it would be better if Blizzard implemented more team-based stuff in D3, so there are monsters/bosses that you can't just throw Crushing Blow on your char and defeat. It takes some modicum of teamwork. And now that that is completely off-topic, I'll bring it back to items. Another thing that bothered me about D2 was items. It always seemed like no matter how much I ran a certain monster, say Hell Meph, I would never find good items. The problem was it wasn't so much based on skill but just luck, and that's all fine and dandy because the people that play more SHOULD have an advantage, but then botters come into play. So if there were monsters who dropped certain things, and everyone knew it, like in WoW, it would prevent a lot of botting and things like that IMO, and it would be more fun.
yeah it would be a case of Char expires or not used in 30-60 days, then it could go back into the market.
Again, like i said before, it could be something other than just straight up magic finding to get these items. For example, say the SoJ is the BEST item in the game (for arguements sake in diablo 3) then say that it will ONLY be rollable if you have a char above level 97. And since its D3 no botting is available, it would only be from hard work and dedication. Something to PROVE that you deserve that item and its not just random for everybody. Then when X amount are found, tough cookies, you have to trade for one if you want it.
Also, I really like the ideas that rares should come into play more. They should make it where a char who gets some sick rolls with rares could be better equipped than a char with the best uniques in the game
Also, the 20 number was just used as an example. People can stop saying "well 99% of the community wouldnt have them then". Change the number then. It should be rare, but this is all fun and speculation, 20 isnt the law of the land...lol
I never claimed it was the law of the land, I was just using it as an example as you did. Of course the number could be 5, 300, 1000, w/e. I am agreeing with Noammr on this one. ;)
After thinking about it thought I about upping the number to say, 1/5th of the amount of players. This of course would help cope with any advantages, but that's a lot for a 'unique' weapon. Instead maybe such items could be from a limited weaponry. An example would be there were 400 weapons made from a special kind of steel used to fight below Tristram.
Rswt I like your idea btw. Of course if they were more rare than regular rares they'd have to be able to either A) have a better list of mods to spawn from than regular rares, B) spawn their own unique mods, or C) just have a higher chance of scoring the really good mods.
I never claimed it was the law of the land, I was just using it as an example as you did. Of course the number could be 5, 300, 1000, w/e. I am agreeing with Noammr on this one. ;)
After thinking about it thought I about upping the number to say, 1/5th of the amount of players. This of course would help cope with any advantages, but that's a lot for a 'unique' weapon. Instead maybe such items could be from a limited weaponry. An example would be there were 400 weapons made from a special kind of steel used to fight below Tristram.
Rswt I like your idea btw. Of course if they were more rare than regular rares they'd have to be able to either A) have a better list of mods to spawn from than regular rares, B) spawn their own unique mods, or C) just have a higher chance of scoring the really good mods.
Awesome ideas. Limited special weaponry...Anyone else just get jacked up for D3 talking about this stuff? haha
OneFromBeyond
04-06-2008, 03:22
I like the ideas in this thread. Let's say that the number of uniques is 1 out of 100 characters (or even less frequent)...all that Blizzard would have to do is
- up the power of crafts
- up the number of uniques
I see nothing wrong with having 10,000 uniques (literally) in the game. Diablo is fun for the hope of finding some rare items. With that number of uniques, there would always be something cool available to be found (in theory).
Another option (rather than one unique per 100 characters), is to have the server create one unique of each type per day (or week or month or whatever). Then the idea of an item search on battle.net so you can check to see if a certain item is available for the day.
Just throwing some ideas out there.
*OneFromBeyond
I like the idea of Uniques being Quest items and the minimum for a story point. This was one reason why i rerolled my D1 games several times in order to get the Poisoned Well quest or Harlequin's or Arkaine's or etc. Beyond these being awesome quests storywise, this also made the struggle worthwhile.
Sure, you could probably find better Magic and rares, but these items really fit into what you needed at the moment it and helped keep the player going because the difficulty was just challenging yet still fun enough.
stillman
05-06-2008, 03:23
I think cafting should be made more viable. that way, you'll more than likely get 8 chars with almost completely different items.
i've often thought about limiting the number of uniques, but then if i buy the game a year later than everyone else, i'm basically playing for the crap items, right? i dont like that :p
another thing i really hate are the generic builds you get. so many chars have the same build, and the same items, and its boring! do something original!!
i'd love to be able to spend as much time as we all spend MFing, but crafting instead, and FINALLY getting an awesome item!!
Ilikestuff, your 2nd paragraph brings up a problem with buying the game later and all the top uniques are taken, but your 3rd paragraph is saying you don't like generic builds who all use the same items and you want some originality. You must decide. You can't have both paragraphs satisfied. The limited uniques idea would prevent cookie cutter best gear collecting. The price, however, is if someone buys the game a year later, they are indeed going to have a lot of work to do in order to trade for the most powerful uniques.
But isn't that the way it is now in D2? A perfect Death's Fathom or COA goes up in value over time and you have to do a lot of work to trade for one.
Some people complain that if they don't play very often, they won't have access to the best unique items. That is the whole point of the idea. Those who are the most dedicated and invest the most time should be granted the best items. And remember, even when all the top uniques have been found, you are not left with only "crap items" to find. That's kind of like the attitude from version 1.09 where "every item sucks except soj". Also, the limits won't apply to runes, so in theory, you may never find one of the godliest uniques, but you could still make a runeword which is actually more powerful than uniques.
I really like the great ideas that have come up: the number of godly uniques dropping could be based on a percentage of the current players. So if the population of players doubles, then the limited number of godly uniques doubles too. And, the release of a new unfound unique per day is good to let players know that it is never impossible to find something. Someone could get instant fame for finding the only possible Tyreals might of the evening when they advertise it ft.
Let's not forget there is always trade. If you truely want one of the best limited uniques, then you could build up wealth to wrest it from one of the holders.
stillman
05-06-2008, 03:39
I just wanted to add that a counter argument for above may be that a perf COA or Fathom can always be farmed in the D2 system. However, the amount of time it would take to farm perfect ones is monumental. It may take less time to build up wealth to trade for one, which is what I propose for D3 players who want to own one of the limited godly uniuques.
Omikron8
05-06-2008, 03:52
such items would have such insane limitless value that you would not able to simply trade for them
it would be like giving up an account of decked out 99's for one item, that's how expensive it would be if the seller even considered
Dorfoumous
05-06-2008, 12:54
So really all you are hurting is the players that don't play as often.
There is no way someone who plays less than 10 hours a week is going to be able to find anything good.
I would hate the idea, and would boycott Diablo.
Ilikestuff
05-06-2008, 13:50
Ilikestuff, your 2nd paragraph brings up a problem with buying the game later and all the top uniques are taken, but your 3rd paragraph is saying you don't like generic builds who all use the same items and you want some originality. You must decide. You can't have both paragraphs satisfied.
i was actually referring to all uniques being unique. therefore if i play the game a year later than everyone else, i'm at a disadvantage, plus i get alot of the gameplay taken away from me, because all these unique items have already been found. therefore making the game less appealing the more time goes by, and lessening blizzards profit margin. hence i dont see it happening.
and of course both paragraphs can be satisfied. . . just because Hoto is a nice item to have, doesnt mean i have to use it? just because Hammerdins are cheap and powerful, doesnt mean i have to make that build? there are allsorts of different items and builds, so why not make something fun and original? and the fact that i can lvl my ranger whilst doing nm andy runs also opens up the slim chance of me finding a soj, which i like. if i knew all the sojs had already been found, it'd take some of the anticipation and fun away
People seem to have changed on D2. its gone from people playing for fun, to people playing to satisfy some sort of superiority complex. make a char thats a little different, a little challenging, instead of botting, getting a rush, and letting people know that your uber smiter pwns. yes, he is powerful, but what have you actually acheived? you cheat to get the items, you cheat to get the lvl, and all you've done is made another smiter with another name, who uses the same items and the same build as every other smiter. if i hear "grief pb" mentioned one more time, i think my corpse may explode!!
rant over
and of course both paragraphs can be satisfied. . . just because Hoto is a nice item to have, doesnt mean i have to use it? just because Hammerdins are cheap and powerful, doesnt mean i have to make that build? there are allsorts of different items and builds, so why not make something fun and original? and the fact that i can lvl my ranger whilst doing nm andy runs also opens up the slim chance of me finding a soj, which i like. if i knew all the sojs had already been found, it'd take some of the anticipation and fun away
And how many of those SOJ's have you actually found? Also, SOJ is again just being used as an example. Think of it more like Windforce, or Griswolds. How many of you have Legitemately found 1 or more than 1 of these things? They are rare as hell as it is! So why not add an incentive for people to play the game more by making these things based off of the percentage of players?
Also think of this! All the "sojs" have been found from a realm. You log on and get a message update: 100 more players have joined your realm, 2 sojs are yours for the finding. now THAT would be intense. It would be as intense if not more intense than the ladder reset. Then you log out of a game and see someone spamming "i got one I got on" and there is only one less. I think it would be fun
AGAIN: 95% OF THE ITEMS WOULD BE LIMITLESS. RUNES WOULD BE LIMITLESS. They wouldnt be impossible to trade for, it would be very comparable to things today. It would take a couple of high runes, but it would be doable if you really wanted this item.
None of the items that would be used in this formula would be MUST HAVES, but more of a luxury to be over the top deadly. It wouldnt make you "stop playing diablo 2" if you could still have a char in the 90th percentile of good by finding basic items. That is a lie, you dont play to find griswolds set, you play cause its fun.
If you are running NIGHTMARE ANDY for exp, then trust me, you wont even be AFFECTED if this system was put into place. Ya know? ;)
Dourf, please read all the posts before you comment like that, average playing time will still benefit the same rewards you are used to, but extreme playing time will reward extreme rewards.
I would expect this to be in the next game because it has worked very well in WoW (where the more you play the better you get, but you can still be very deadly with avg playing time)
Dorfoumous
05-06-2008, 17:39
I think really this it is a lame idea.
There is no reason for it.
So the rich get richer and the poor get poorer...
I see no problem with the current system.
how do the rich get richer and the poor get poorer? That has no relevance to this discussion what-so-ever (if you think it does, please explain how you think it does)
Also from the post immediatly above you: Dourf, please read all the posts before you comment like that, average playing time will still benefit the same rewards you are used to, but extreme playing time will reward extreme rewards.
You will still experience the same game you play. "i dont like it so dont do it" is weird to say when it wouldnt affect the game you play (yay for rhymes)
Dorfoumous
05-06-2008, 18:36
Do you listen?
Did you read my previous posts?
Ok lets say that there is only 20 Sojs. The first 20 people (more than likely the people that play all of the time) will get them. Thus being rich. Now they can raise the prices of the Sojs to astromatical (if that is a word) amount and say something like 10 HRS for 1 SOJ which is near impossbile (with out dupes) to get a SOJ.
You make the ELITE people MORE ELITE.
Because since they found ONE soj and since there is one 20 out there they can trade it for a lot more uber stuff, depending on the ratio of limited stuff. Lets say the SOJ is the most limited and there are other items that are limited but not as much. They can get those items without even getting only for a trade.
Example: Say there is only 20 sojs, and lets say there is a 100,000 Lidless. That guy with the SOJ can trade for Lidless and other unqiue items.
And some of the Uber UNIQUE items, so happened to have MF, there for limiting amount of MF that is out there for example. FOR EXAMPLE: like Gheeds?
Thus by limiting the Uber Unique items, those who do encounter one, could trade for a lot more items, and get a lot more better stuff because of the supply and demand.
Thus making the Rich, Richer, while the Poor Poorer.
I like the fact that I can not play for 2 years pop on and get a SOJ without worring about it being already taken due to the fact that its "limited"
Not to mention the several million people that are going to play the game. So your chances of even seeing the item even exists is going to be very rare.
I personally like being equal. I don't know about you, but I like being equal to everyone else and having the same chance as anyone else in getting the uber unique items.
Thus if you don't have anything, you won't get anything because everyone already has the elite items, and you have to sacrifice the one good thing you get to get may the lowest on the scale of limited.
If that makes sense.
Its a stupid Idea.
I'll stick with myself doing MF runs and having the same chance as everyone else as getting ANY item I want.
Ok...first of all that isnt the "rich getting richer" it is more like the "lucky ones getting rich"
Do you understand that the majority of this is all basic ideas? It can be changed anyway that you want it to be. Also, i am saying that NINETY FIVE PERCENT of the people in the game will ALL BE EQUAL, and the other FIVE PERCENT wont be. That is exactly how it is in D2 right now, except the 5% of rich people are dupers who spread the runes through-out the D2 community.
ALSO, if you read previous posts, I have ideas for finding these items, such as making a minimum requirement being level 97 to even find them. then you could make the items only able to be worn at lvl 97-99. all of the items are BASIC EXAMPLES, so you understand the concept.
I have also said OVER AND OVER that only the BEST items will be limited. And yet you come out and say "well, I wont be able to play with my lidless, i want to find lidless wahhh"
YOUD BE ABLE TO. If you only play 10 hours a week you can STILL have a char that can have gear to play end game content and win duels, but your damage numbers wont be mind shattering. If someone who plays 40 hours a week (as a basic example) and work to reach the higher levels, then it will unlock a new level of uniques for them as a reward.
It isnt a "stupid" idea, it is just a fresh approach to make things more interesting. Dis-agreeing is fine, but it isnt a stupid idea. It is in place in some of the most popular games today
Nothing you've said adresses the fact that all your idea will do is promote more elitism in the worst way, giving hardcore player an advantage that no casual player can ever hope to match is a bad idea and will turn most of the casual players (which are the majority of players btw) off the game. Besides- there's no reason creating a system which will give only the hardcore players a chance to get insanly valuable items since they're the players that can amass more wealth then most players anyhow (=rich get richer which you asked to be explained a couple posts ago).
I'll raise again my original suggestion; make these items merely visualy unique and it's much better- you'll have your 'tyreal's wings' visual effect cape which won't give you any gameplay bonus but will allow you to show off your 'leetness' regardless...without putting down casul players by having a character they can never hope to match. Make these items only usable on the character who found them and you've solved the 'make rich people richer' part too.
As to another matter raised in this thread: all you need to have for more versatility in characters is good game balance (skillwise) and no uber items (which are better then any other item on the list). Get those two right and you'll see pleny of originality. This really has nothing to do with the matter at hand.
...and one last thing: you call this a fresh approach?
This is kind of like WoW, but i think would be so cool if it was implemented over to Diablo.
:rolleyes:
It would be a fresh approach to the world of Diablo...would it not? Since they arent in Diablo, yes that would be called a fresh approach to the game we all love
I got a char up to lvl 70 in WoW, then quit a month later because it was boring, but I still liked the ideas of the "Limited Realm items" that I think only like 5 existed per realm (someone can correct me if im wrong) and guess what it did? nothing really... just made that character bad ***.
Diablo 2 has elitism in the game as it is, and a good chunk of it is because of dupers. If you dont want the "rich getting richer" then make these limited uniques bind on pick up and only those uniques bind on pick up. Or account on pick up so you could trans it to a viable char (unless you want them to be more genericly bad ***).
The goal here is not to ruin the Diablo economy and im not supporting that in anyway, I just think it would be exciting to have an extra level of uniques...that is all i am saying
In WoW they are called "Legendary" so lets use that a template.
So we have uniques, that everyone can find everywhere.
Then we have Legendary, there are 10 legendary items on a realm, each one different, and thre is only one copy of each and they are bind on pickup. They are unbelievably rare, requirements can be a high level and only found in end game end difficulty content and you cant trade them only use them and they are so good that you would be ridiculous not to use them
Anyone have a problem with that scenario?
Sanctuary is suppose to be a hard, grim, cutthroat world where those with intelligence, charm, and divine favoring triumph on the skulls of the masses. You are suppose to be the Hero, but that doesn't automatically mean that you don't have to work for good l007.
Limited Uniques is one way of to encourage players to play more, but this limiting factor has already been coded into the system, it's the drop ratio. There are very few super rare uniques and those people who do have them worked for it one way or another. Blizzard's method of IDs and Ruststorm does work, except that it Blizzard doesn't allocate the resources necessary to constantly scan and destroy dupes. And given the age and lack of financial backing in D2, there is less incentive to spend resources here than there is for WoW.
BlastDuke
05-06-2008, 23:24
There would be another way of putting "limited" uniques into the game:
If you find one, it will stay on your character for a limited time. After the time has expired, the item will "poof" (and can drop again in any other game).
The time span should be not too long (1 to 5 days maybe).
This way the uniques could even be overpowered, since they give just a temporary boost. They would provide a lot of fun IMHO (and make other people jealous).
stillman
06-06-2008, 05:21
I realize there will be disgruntled players if limited uniques are introduced to D3, but the idea is a lesser of two evils. Most mature players cry out for a fix to the dupe problem, and this is one such fix. I believe a line from The Wrath of Khan applies here: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". Duping of godlies has distorted the D2 gaming experience; SOMETHING different must be done for D3.
Lyrus, the drop ratio may or may not work. I've heard of sweatshops where cheap labor allows people to play D2 24-7 to farm items. So no matter how rare the elite drops, people can still exploit the drop rate to accumulate mass godlies.
To address a few comments:
-The rich getting richer is not a bad thing. This is how trading already works in D2. The poor won't necessarily get poorer; they can simply play more to find more drops (including runes).
-Equality should not exist on D3 imo. I don't see why someone who plays for, let's say, 10 hours per week should have the same gear as someone who plays 40 hours per week. Would you really want the bulk of power dispersed to little children who don't even understand the game? I would prefer the best items go to the most mature, determined pro players who have earned their way to the top.
-Elitism is indeed already part of D2. Even with dupes removed, there would still be elitism as a result of competition among thousands of players. The best players will always have the most power. It is a game afterall, and all games have aggressive competitors.
-Again, people are presuming that every item sucks except soj, and your playing experience is hampered or diminished by not having access to the best items.
-There is also a confidence issue, where people fear they may never have access to the top limited gear. In D2, we all started off with nothing, we gazed at the seemingly impossible elite uniques shown on Arreat Summit, and we eventually got them because we really wanted them bad enough. With limited top uniques, you would not really have to trade an account of lev 99 chr gear, but rather you could get the precise items the holder wants, then make him the offer which he can't resist. (Also, see the bottom of this message for the ultimate solution to everything)
-Blastduke, your limited time item idea is very interesting. People will shoot it down though, even though it resolves several problems. I like how it is similar to eth items with their higher dam or def.
Basically, rich getting richer, elitism, the stuggle for power, an inequality are all good aspects of the game which reflect the nature of mankind and the nature of the game.
Finally, there could be yearly ladder resets (or whatever is the most reasonable amount of time) to allow a new hunt for all the best possible items. Suddenly, the elitists who had the "20" sojs are all on the bottom now (if they want to compete on ladder) with everone else. That should make everyone happy. The casual players now have their chance to save the wealth they need to buy the top gear they don't anticipate getting. But of course, why would they want the top gear if they don't anticipate having the lev requirements anyway?
Would (some) limited uniques really discourage people from playing, or rather, would it encourage them to play better?
Finally, there could be yearly ladder resets (or whatever is the most reasonable amount of time) to allow a new hunt for all the best possible items. Suddenly, the elitists who had the "20" sojs are all on the bottom now (if they want to compete on ladder) with everone else. That should make everyone happy. The casual players now have their chance to save the wealth they need to buy the top gear they don't anticipate getting. But of course, why would they want the top gear if they don't anticipate having the lev requirements anyway?
Would (some) limited uniques really discourage people from playing, or rather, would it encourage them to play better?
Really good point. The ladder reset would set everyone back to ground 0 and the hunt could begin again. That would def. help solve a lot of the "if i bought the game late, how would i stand a chance?".
Ilikestuff
06-06-2008, 12:02
I think maybe if blizzard were stupid enough to limit uniques, it would only encourage people to dupe.
why do people dupe now? because high runes are too hard to find?
so by making items even rarer to find (and if they've all been found, impossible!!) youre encouraging these dupers to find ways to get around this.
nice idea in theory, in practice however, its like trying to teach my dog to sing "My Way" whilst doing advanced algebraic equations.
I think maybe if blizzard were stupid enough to limit uniques, it would only encourage people to dupe.
why do people dupe now? because high runes are too hard to find?
so by making items even rarer to find (and if they've all been found, impossible!!) youre encouraging these dupers to find ways to get around this.
nice idea in theory, in practice however, its like trying to teach my dog to sing "My Way" whilst doing advanced algebraic equations.
See, your stuck in Diablo 2 thinking. This is Diablo 3. Even if it isnt pay to play, there will be enough people working on the game that duping will be non-existent. If we pay to play it will be non-existent forever, but if it isnt it will eventually fade away and people could do what they want.
Duping will not be a problem in Diablo 3 because blizzard pays attention to their newer games
In practice its impossible? Really, thats what your saying? haha cause it is "in practice" now in several games and it works
There would be another way of putting "limited" uniques into the game:
If you find one, it will stay on your character for a limited time. After the time has expired, the item will "poof" (and can drop again in any other game).
The time span should be not too long (1 to 5 days maybe).
This way the uniques could even be overpowered, since they give just a temporary boost. They would provide a lot of fun IMHO (and make other people jealous).
I find myself really liking this idea, this way uniques can really be unique as well as (optionaly) more powerfull then most items without upsetting balance or limiting them to the elite high-level players :thumbup:
Limited Uniques is one way of to encourage players to play more, but this limiting factor has already been coded into the system, it's the drop ratio. There are very few super rare uniques and those people who do have them worked for it one way or another. Blizzard's method of IDs and Ruststorm does work, except that it Blizzard doesn't allocate the resources necessary to constantly scan and destroy dupes. And given the age and lack of financial backing in D2, there is less incentive to spend resources here than there is for WoW.
Seconded.
Just something that crossed my mind: why not limit uniques to one (or any fixed amount) per CD key?
Let's say that I start out with a new CD key and level a character to a certain level, complete a certain quest, find a unique or whatever. Now I receive my unique item. I can never get a second unique with this CD key, but I can still trade it for another unique.
Collecting more CD keys may get me more uniques, but they can never be on the same character, or even the same account.
This way, everybody has something unique and there is no elitism.
To be honest, I like it the way it is now in Diablo 2, with the exception that rares and crafts should be able to more easily outperform uniques and runewords.
One unique per game is a nice idea...it is after all unique and thus the only one...or remove the ability to trade a unique so everyone has to find their own...i like the roll system on drops...
Quest rewards might be an idea or some quests...like get a unique ring for killing diablo and any act boss...nothing spectacular mind you just something to help you on your way...
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