So tonight

[Socialism]

...in order to prevent myself from playing Diablo II and/or reviving my LOD image, I engaged in the following activities (no particular order).

a) went to a late lunch with someone
b) at aforementioned lunch, picked up waitress at restaurant ("Pick me up at midnight!!"
c) went to hang with some homies
d) picked up waitress in the pouring rain at 12, discovered she's 16, abandoned that line of activity and shimmied to drink with 'friends'
e) watched kids do lines of coke and talk all kinds of **** about each other while professing their BFFnessity for each other in separate rooms
f) gracefully defended myself from the touchyfeely ministrations of a cokehead chick and a stupid richgirl "I'm like, an actress" type
g) blew off my girlfriend
h) drove around a lot
i) reformatted 2 machines, built XP slipstreamers, reloaded (now for WHS :< )
j) got new paint for my spoiler (which I brilliantly decided to bounce off the ground because I'm all kinds of not-clumsy)
k) wrote this stupid thing
l) hung out with some of the stupidest people ever to sully the good name of planet erff

Ugh. I'm brimming with self-loathing and disgust. Highs: hey, 16 year olds still dig me -- which means I'm not a creepy old man yet. Lows: frigging cokehead chicks who want to get into my pants. Well, that's kind of a high too.

Erg/


Edit: It's 6:30 AM and I just drove back. How ****ed up is that?

[TheDarkSide]

:thumbup:

Ohh life is grand when ya get OLD isnt it !!!


:coverlaugh:

[Dahkar]

I played AoC all night :D I win!

[AgentMarth]

d) picked up waitress in the pouring rain at 12, discovered she's 16, abandoned that line of activity and shimmied to drink with 'friends'


It only illegal if you get caught!


Just kidding. Sounds like you had an interesting night, but you know playing some good ol' D2 would have been better, stop resisting, return to the dark side.

[Tai.]

Psssh, coward. After all the talks you've given us about you back off a 16 year old. For Shame. Seems like you had a fun night though, so why is it bad you're this devoted to avoiding d2?

[ZappaFan]

Sounds like your girlfriend had the best luck of the evening. ;)

[MYK]

Moral of the story; It's best to just play D2.

That, or you need to figure out how to buy beerahol and THEN play some D2. That's probably the best option.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

It only illegal if you get caught!

Actually, in those circumstances it's not even illegal then. Not to say that makes it a good idea or anything, just saying.

[Hp_Sauce]

Moral of the story; It's best to just play D2.

This is exactly what I was thinking. Why fight it? You know you will be back sometime. :thumbup:

-hps

[Matt]

Dahkar, AoC as in Age of Conquerors? If so, I'm gettin into that as well, I'm no good at it really, but it sure is fun.

[AzaZaz]

Sounds like your girlfriend had the best luck of the evening. ;)

ZING!

I thought the same :P

[Socialism]

Pssht, perverts :>

Had a decent night last night.

Have to quit drinking (again). Once all the Amsterdam Blondes and Coronas are emptied from the fridge, of course.

sigh


Perhaps a migration to wine? I'm a fan of the non-sweet reds. Any advice/wisdom on that front?


I burned my LOD disc to my compooter and ISO mounting software. I haven't yet loaded up the game. I can't do the whole itams thing anymore, I just don't care enough. Maybe I'm depressed again? I cried at "Stranger than Fiction". :<

Edit: Drove this girl home last night; we had a long talk about how stupidfunny it'd be to have "pwn lolz" as my license plate. I already applied for it, but I think it was instarejected or something.

[MYK]

Coronas



I've found the true source of your problems.:scratchchin:

[Socialism]

Did someone nix
*Glimmer
and
*Flicker ???

Someone's changed the e-mail thingie on them, I think.

[AgentMarth]

Did someone nix
*Glimmer
and
*Flicker ???

Someone's changed the e-mail thingie on them, I think.

Does that mean what I think it means???

Don't tease us now, that would be mean!

[Socialism]

Does that mean what I think it means???

Don't tease us now, that would be mean!

Yes, it does; someone has stolen my accounts, and Durable along with 'em :(

[AgentMarth]

I meant more along the lines that you were about to be playing again, but either way that sucks. You know pretty much any real banana would do what they could to help you, but that still doesn't mean getting those account names back.

I think its time for a CTA to get you a high level char fast!

One little thing, you weren't trying to log onto West by mistake? Just checking.....

[Socialism]

*Socialism @ USEast created
*Glimmer @ USEast created


*Flicker @ USEast <-- someone made this 3 weeks ago?

[Socialism]

So who wants to toss me 50k so I don't have to sell potions for 3 hours?

[prion]

just sell all the katars you find :)

[WingBlade]

Matt,

The AoC that Dahkar is talking bout is Age of Conan....

[Socialism]

More like "Angst-ridden Overweight Children"... all other games must bow to Diablo!

[Rekoc]

Socialism come play wow with me and xey and trebol and valar!

[MoUsE_WiZ]

WoW = old and busted
AoC = new hotness

[WingBlade]

WoW = old and busted
AoC = new hotness


both P2P :jig:

[Dahkar]

I concur Mr. Wiz. By the way, that guild your in is funny :). If only I could of convinced my roommates to play on RP-PvP

As it was already answered, AoC = Age of Conan, you should join us Matt.]

[Socialism]

Dudes, dudes. If I can get addicted to something as slimy as D2, wouldn't those theoretically more engaging games like WoW (Weird Oily-faced Weenies) and AoC (Annoying Odorous Crackheads) just be the construct of my destruction?

[hobbsc]

For what it's worth, I left WoW to come back to D2.

I really can't stand WoW... two years of my life that I'll never have back. :D

[ZappaFan]

I think I'm one of the few people on the planet that have never played WoW. I was playing Runescape after I quit D2 the last time.

[MYK]

< Never played WoW.

[come back zinc]

ditto. In fact, I've never even seen it played (besides on South Park).

[prion]

i never played wow either but i've been wanting to.

but i have played runescape and its basically a game for 10 year olds whose parents won't pony up for wow

[hobbsc]

I played a TON of Guild Wars, too. In fact, I was pretty heavy into GW PvP. For me, GW is the perfect mix of WoW and D2 (oddly enough).

[Tai.]

Never played an MMO in my life, I get dangerous addicted to Diablo 2, MMOs would surely destroy the remnants of my social life.

[Dahkar]

I'll pay your monthly fee Tai :)

[Matt]

Never played WoW or really any other Diablo-like games other than D2 either.

I don't have the slightest clue what Age of Conan is, except that it's probably nowhere near as fun as Age of Conquerors (an Age of Empires game if people aren't familiar with it), so you all should come play that instead. :thumbup:

[Socialism]

Guys. Guys. Guys. You're all sorely missing the point here; diabloii.net = d2 = Diablo LOD = let's do it.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

it's probably nowhere near as fun as Age of Conquerors (an Age of Empires game if people aren't familiar with it)

Except that AoE is trash and no RTS will ever live up to BW in my mind so if I'm going to play RTS it's going to be BW ~_~

I'll play SC2 as well, but I expect as much disappointment as I recieved from WC3. I mean, I still played probably well over 1000 games of it counting TD/obsing/non-ladder/etc... I had >700 ladder games in about 3 months, so it was definitely fun, just not BW, and therefore disappointing.

Further thoughts on AoC:
Right now, AoC has a rather diabloy feel to it. You don't get to mow down tons of monsters at a time (HG:L and Mythos from FSS for that fix if you need it) but the world itself has the diablo feel. You're not fighting demons and whatnot, least not yet, there's a few monster type monsters but mostly it's humans. And playing a caster feels a lot more like WoW or GW than D2 (my spellweaving is still broken for the ToS ><, melee is completely different). There's also lots of room for bug fixes still, they are tackling them fairly quickly though.

So why does this feel like D2?
1) The graphics. When Blizzard makes D3, I'm praying it looks like this. It's a big desolate beautifully rendered world. With a creepy sort of feel that D1 captured better than D2, though it was still present in D2. I guess this point is more like "graphics and environment"... whatever.

2) The armour. It's not over the top. Lots of WoW players are complaining that "everyone looks the same". That's true, but it also makes sense, and it's what we Diablo players are used to too. I mean there's still lots of different looks, it's just that there's only so much you can tweak a leather chest piece without making it look stupid. Cartoony armour fits cartoony games just fine, I've loved every set of gear I've ever had on my warlock (because Blizzard loves warlocks, plus I never got S4), but realistic armour should be in games that are supposed to be realistic. Ditto weapons.

3) The leveling curve. It took me 24 hours to go 1-40. It's taken me another 24 to go 40-53. This is in part due to the fact that I already knew 1-40 content from my assassin, but not 40+, but it's in large part due to the way the curve's set up. I think this game is the best game I've ever played in terms of getting your character to the point it can be played the way it should be played asap. Now the curve stops slowing down too, unlike D2 the grind isn't for levels at the end, but it still feels like D2 where you can get to ~70-80 very quickly and start having fun with your dude without having his levels maxed out.

4) Since the game is still new, it doesn't feel like everything pre-80 is worthless. *cough*wow*cough*. Hell, even most of the 70 content that you get stuck doing is worthless... woot for BG grind if you want to hop into arenas at this point...
What does this mean? Well, combined with point 3, it means you don't need to limit yourself to a main to have fun with the game. Go ahead and level a few guys at once. If you're like me you'll have fun doing it, though I'm sure there's some people who will still be in a rush for the end content. WoW's about the only game I've ever played where I couldn't be competitive without restricting myself to 1 character, and I find that silly.

5) It has a stamina bar. That actually matters beyond level 6. ^^

7) Everybody can solo. No more will you be getting *****ed at from the healers of the guild to help them farm/level... infact, at the moment, the priest classes are probably the best soloers.

8) There's a distinct story from the start. Again, lots of people listing this as a drawback, but that's one of the things that made WoW stupid to me... AoC, I'm out to kill Thoth-Amon right from the start. D2 I'm out to kill D right from the start. WoW I'm out to kill... boars? right from the start. Lol.

There's plenty of other good points to the game, I'm just listing the similarities to D2 that I can think of off hand.
In the end I'm not sure if I'll stay hooked on this like I did with WoW or D2, or if it'll be played for couple months before running out of things to do like GW and HG:L, but I'm definitely loving it in the mean time.

[Dahkar]

Agreed 100%. I am just taking it as it comes. I have actually leveled up many different characters in this game and enjoyed them all:

I have a:

47 Conqueror
18 Bear Shaman
23 Barbarian
33 HoX
13 Assassin

Needless to say I have spent way to much time on this game because I didn't have my first day of work at my new job until today. :)

By the way, NO game will ever live up to Broodwar, no matter how fun. :D

[ZappaFan]

My personal experience playing Runescape for 2 years (had a character that was in the top 50 in four different skills at one time) was that the "kiddie" factor was not nearly as bad as I found it to be playing other games.

i never played wow either but i've been wanting to.

but i have played runescape and its basically a game for 10 year olds whose parents won't pony up for wow

[robzombiesslave]

Brood war :( Yeah its a good rts and fun. But its far to simple imo. The only RTS I play nowadays is company of heroes. It gets best strat game to date in my books. However by far the best strat game for its time Total Annihilation. The interface is amazing. Imo it still competes with most rts games nowadays. This is a true real time Strategy game to me.

Brood war is more. Throwing units at each other until one obliterates the other one. There is strategy involved but its just to simple for me.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Throwing units at each other until one obliterates the other one.
Go watch boxer videos and tell me that.
That's like saying golf is simple because all you have to do is hit a ball into a hole. If it's so simple, move to Korea and make 6+ figures a year playing it ~_~

I can understand it not being the game for everyone... I mean most people have terrible taste in music, movies, tv, sports, and basically every other form of entertainment, so why not video games too... but don't call it "simple".

I mean, I can't stand shooters, but I'd never criticze them as "simple" even though the basic concept is rather easy to grasp. I might say the basic driving concept behind shooters is simple (more likely I'd use "derivative" or "lame"), but not the game itself. Not until I was good enough to make money playing them anyways.

And hell, this is a D2 board. If you're going to criticize a game for it's simplicity, I don't think you need to look very far ~_~

[robzombiesslave]

:scratchchin:

Golf? I def wouldnt call golf the best strategy sports in existance. Just like I wouldnt say Brood War is the best real time strategy game in existance. I like the game, I play it, and its a good game.

And shooters are a totally different ballgame than RTS's. But yes some shooters are more simple than others are.

Just because I said BW is simple compared to other real time strategy games doesnt mean I think its a horrible game lol. Imo checkers is simpler than chess. Doesnt mean I dont like checkers, doesnt mean its a bad game. Simply means that checkers is simpler than chess. Am I wrong to say that??

And diablo 2, though it has nothing to do with RTS's. Diablo II is an action role-playing-game I dont think it was specifically designed to be ultra complex/challenging/strategic.

I wasnt trying to say that BW is a bad game. But imo, it involves more micromanagment and clicking then actual :scratchchin:

Granted im not saying that I can beat you and def cant beat some professional korean BW player lol. You & "the korean" have way more skill than I do in that game prob.

Didnt mean to beat down on your beloved bw :( I will leave it at that

[Dahkar]

On a surface level, sure I can see BW as being simple comparative to many of the RTS now days. However, as you get to a higher level, like most games, the complexity exponentially increases.

The RTS games now day have more surface level complexity, where as Brood War is much more subtle, which is why I believe it has done so well. Brood War is also very dynamic comparative to most other RTS games.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Golf? I def wouldnt call golf the best strategy sports in existance.

Neither would I, but I also wouldn't call it simple.
I have no particular issue with your assertion that BW's actual STRATEGY is lacking compared to other games (we'll say chess because I really haven't gotten into any other RTS beyond the surface level to compare) but that doesn't make it simple.

The reason I use golf as an example is that although the concept is simple, the execution is incredibly complex. The game is not as simple as swinging a club and then watching a ball go into a hole. As such the game itself is not simple.

Simple games do not generate a professional level as anybody can compete on the level of the pros... tic tac toe, for an extreme example, is a simple game. A 5 yearold playing for it's first time could consistently tie someone who's been playing the game for years. D2 also falls into this sort of category, there's a point where it's not actually possible to get any better at the game, and that point isn't too far off for most people.

Or to use your example, checkers is more simple than chess, which is why professional chess has a following and I'm not sure whether or not professional checkers even exists. In terms of strategy, BW might be the checkers to another game's chess, but in terms of simplicity that same game could still be easier for the average Joe to compete in because the strategy still isn't at a chess level, but the execution of the strategy might be as easy as moving a chess piece around a board.

[ZappaFan]

There are many things in life that are relatively simple to learn but very difficult to master. Golf is a good example of that.

[robzombiesslave]

Or to use your example, checkers is more simple than chess, which is why professional chess has a following and I'm not sure whether or not professional checkers even exists. In terms of strategy, BW might be the checkers to another game's chess, but in terms of simplicity that same game could still be easier for the average Joe to compete in because the strategy still isn't at a chess level, but the execution of the strategy might be as easy as moving a chess piece around a board.

"I wasnt trying to say that BW is a bad game. But imo, it involves more micromanagment and clicking then actual :scratchchin: "

Which is exactly what I was saying. The " :scratchchin: " kinda ment strategy.

There are many things in life that are relatively simple to learn but very difficult to master. Golf is a good example of that.

Yes but its more skill involved than strategy.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

"I wasnt trying to say that BW is a bad game. But imo, it involves more micromanagment and clicking then actual :scratchchin: "

Which is exactly what I was saying. The " :scratchchin: " kinda ment strategy.

I caught that, and I don't disagree with you, at all, on that point.

Simply means that checkers is simpler than chess. Am I wrong to say that??
I disagree with you when you imply BW is "simpler" than any other game. It isn't a case of checkers being simpler than chess, because although one game takes more strategy, they're equally (un)complex when it comes to the execution of strategy. So tied in one department, while inferior in another, checkers is a simpler game. Comparing BW to another game is not going to be black and white like that because other games don't have the interface of BW, whereas checkers and chess have nearly identical interfaces.

Just because a game requires skill rather than thinking does not make it simple.

[Still-Xey-Lover]

i love lamp

[robzombiesslave]

Wrong, you assume that I imply that BW is simpler than any other game. Again, BW is a good RTS. It isnt however the greatest RT"S"'s of all times. This is what I am implying and this is all I am implying. But it could not would not should not be considered best RTS of all times.

[Tai.]

I personally come down firmly on the Starcraft/BW side of the argument. I've played every RTS I could get my hands on and the only one that enthralled me for anywhere near as long was Age of Empires 2. This was certainly not a simple game when it came to micromanagement, but it was simple when it came to strategy. At the highest levels of Age of Empires 2, you went Chinese or you got destroyed if facing someone of equivalent skill. With the Conquerors expansion, if you didn't go Huns you were at a similar disadvantage.

When you can mathematically determine the best race for a game or reach the point where one strategy alone is viable it becomes simplistic.

Starcraft has not reached that point. Terran is probably the most powerful race at the highest levels of gameplay (assuming you're capable of the 400+ APM needed to compete with them) but Protoss and Zerg are by no means lacking. Best (a Protoss player) has been destroying Terrans lately, with a wide range of strategies. He recently defeated Flash (probably the best Terran alive today) using Carriers, a unit Flash has made a living off demolishing.

When you can go mech versus the top Zerg of the day and win (Flash vs Jaedong) and go Marine/Medic vs a Protoss and win (Frozean vs Anytime) we can see just how many different strategies are viable.

Flash defeated Stork in the OSL finals almost entirely through strategy. He had demolished Stork using his new anti-carrier build in the GSI (a previous tournament) and since then people had been scrambling to identify weaknesses in Flash's build. In a game on Katrina (the map Flash's anti-carrier build had been born on) Stork was so convinced that Flash would stick with his new build that he was completely unprepared for the all-in rush Flash mounted and the game was a slaughter. With this loss, Stork's spirit was crushed and he looked like a ghost of himself in the third game, resulting in a 3-0 sweep.

Starcraft is the most popular RTS game in the world despite the fact it was released more than 10 years ago. Yes, there are certain maps and matchups where you simply throw units at your opponent until one of you dies, but that is only part of the story. It's like saying that Diablo 2 sucks because your character is never at risk of dying permanently. Just because most people start off playing Money Maps or UMS in Starcraft doesn't mean that's all there is to it, the same as Softcore is not all of Diablo 2.

Sorry about the rant, it's just every time a new RTS comes out and is the new hotness, Starcraft loses a few supporters but they never stay lost as there has yet to be a game with its depth. Everyone has their own opinion, my friend Rob will tell you AoE2 is the best RTS ever, as it's what he is best at (WCG Finals a few times) but he's one voice in a crowd of thousands chanting 'Starcraft'.

Cheers
-Tai

[robzombiesslave]

Not me rob :P I still stand by total annihilation as best RTS ever.. Even though I dont really like lasers and stuff. Not sure why most people have never played or even heard about it. Second would probably be starcraft/broodwar. I couldnt really rank much more than that. All other games I can think of are different in the RTS gaming world.

[prion]

I have no idea what Tai just said :o

is there a way to play Starcraft or Warcraft with random people online and be certain that they won't cheat or hack? That is the main reason I've never played strategy games PvP

[Tai.]

Honestly it's hard, there are programs ADVLoader and the like that come equipped with hack detection. Most of these just warn you when the person hacks so you can get out within the first 2 minutes so it doesn't affect your record. Some allow you to drop them from Battle.Net, which is always nice :)

These programs can also be used to monitor your APM or (in old versions) to watch someones actions in a first person replay.

Sorry about the Shop Speak mate, just seemed the best way to demonstrate some of the intricacies in the game without having to upload videos

[robzombiesslave]

I have no idea what Tai just said :o

is there a way to play Starcraft or Warcraft with random people online and be certain that they won't cheat or hack? That is the main reason I've never played strategy games PvP

Playing LAN I guess lol.
I dont know if there is a 100% sure way to make sure people arent hacking. But I play company of heroes (rts) online all the time and i've only been drophacked like twice in older patches. But havent been in a while. Nothing beats playing up against another human though. Its mind vs mind its a true challenge.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Wrong, you assume that I imply that BW is simpler than any other game. Again, BW is a good RTS. It isnt however the greatest RT"S"'s of all times. This is what I am implying and this is all I am implying. But it could not would not should not be considered best RTS of all times.
RTS!=S.
The "real-time" portion plays a rather significant part in distinguishing the genre, otherwise we'd all be off playing chess.

The fact is, BW is the most popular RTS ever made. It is perhaps the game closest to deserving the title "esport" ever made. If you don't think it's the best ever, that's fine, but do not use the word "simple" to refer to it. Games don't generate the following BW has by being "simple".

Also, when I say "any" I mean it in the sense that there does not exist a video game more complex than BW. Not the sense that you could pick a game at random and it would be more complex.

[MoUsE_WiZ]

is there a way to play Starcraft or Warcraft with random people online and be certain that they won't cheat or hack?
Unless you're playing for money I don't think it really matters if they're cheating. You don't lose anything by losing, and you get a more challenging match than you would've had otherwise. Doesn't mean I particularily LIKE going up against someone with a maphack, but it's not really something I worry about either. Plus if you beat them and watch the rep and notice that they were blatantly hacking you get to giggle that much more.

[Dahkar]

Is it bad that I understood all though Tai? :) I have special place in my heart for starcraft. I hope SC2 will carve out its own place, but we shall see. I am skeptical like Mouse. If it is good though, I can say good bye to any mmo I am playing :D

[robzombiesslave]

Amen to the "RealTime" aspect of starcraft it sure is action packed from what I remember. But there is more strategy involved in other RTS's

Whats wrong with simple? Lol, you wont change my mind about starcraft being a fairly simple RTS. Simple is good sometimes. But check this out lmao excuse the link, im at work and they block most video game websites. :crazyeyes:

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:lTwSwC61R5QJ:archive.gamespy.com/top10/february04/rts/index11.shtml+top+10+real+time+strategy&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us

"The interface allowed gamers to build up obscene armies and bases with such ease that the player was free to concentrate on actual tactics and strategy."

This is why I stand by TA as the best real time strategy game ever. Not to say I dont prefer playing starcraft over TA but this is all I was saying lol... gdamn

[Tai.]

Is it bad that I understood all though Tai? :) I have special place in my heart for starcraft. I hope SC2 will carve out its own place, but we shall see. I am skeptical like Mouse. If it is good though, I can say good bye to any mmo I am playing :D

When I saw that Prion didn't understand, I thought to myself "I'm not sure anyone but Dahkar and Oxy would" so no, not bad at all.

I think of BW kind of like Texas Hold 'Em, minutes to learn and years to master. Perhaps that's why so many foreign Starcraft pros (meaning not part of the professional Korean E-Gaming scene) pay for their gaming addiction through Hold 'Em.

Cheers
-Tai

[Dahkar]

I play both :)

[LuckyDwarf]

Dan, I understood every word . . . there was a time where I was pretty high up there on the ladder as a terran player; had a lot of fun years ago. SC will always be my favorite RTS and I think it's one of the most balanced, too.

Lucky

[MoUsE_WiZ]

Understanding isn't the issue... it's a pretty straight forward post.

It's when you already knew everything he just wrote that it starts to get wondering. And even then it's really no worse than being able to make the same sort of post about hockey. And it's better than being able to make the same sort of post about any other sport.

[come back zinc]

Starcraft is the sweetest RTS I've ever played. I wasn't online back then so I could only play LAN with a friend or destroy the computer on my maps (I made, at different times, Earth, Europe, North America, Quebec and Montreal). I used to love reading about the best and newest stategies while I was at school. I remember when the zergling rush and reaver drop were hot topics.

Good strategy doesn't always involve large armies in large bases taking turns playing siege. A game with a good strategic element allows you the flexibility to change your mode of attack often, to feign strength or weakness, to always have a trump card available... if you planned ahead. When you lose in SC, it's because you were outsmarted; it's rarely because the other guy can click faster than you. But I praise those guys who can keep track and regroup their units on the fly without slowing down. I was always trying to figure out where I left those extra Hydralisks.

[Dahkar]

I didn't know much of that, but I don't keep up with the pro scene much these days. But back in the day, I was a pretty avid star craft reader/player.