Why D3 Online should be Pay to Play... [Archive]

MYK

28-04-2008, 03:50

I'm laughing on the inside here. Let's rummage through your posts and find some goodies!
(Re: Why D3 Online should be Pay to Play...)....so it doesnt become corrupt by dupes, hacks and imbalances like D2 did.
botting in WoW

It looks like P2P didn't circumvent any *corruption* at all.
Even a quick Google search points you to all kinds of WoW hacks, bots and explots. So, to mirror what you said to Me2Nik, "Get Real."
just have a look at D2X and W3:TFT, and then compare it to WoW.

Yeah, afk-botting in WoW BGs sucks, but that doesnt mean those players will be suddenly amazing at everything like raids and arena. Get real.

When you compare D2X to WoW in this case It's essentially the same thing. Botted/Duped/Hacks/Whatever don't make anyone in D2X a better player.
Paying assuring the customers WILL have the support beyond original product.

Ever tried to get support in WoW?

'Nuff said.:smiley:

aishilee

28-04-2008, 04:16

coz the fuel price are soaring sky high ~

minizx

28-04-2008, 11:04

well in my opinion it shouldnt be pay to play for me one of the great appeals of diablo is that its a light mmo that is free, now i dont mind paying for expansion packs once every 6 months but paying 15 pounds a month would just make me feel abliged to cut all ties with the real world to make sure i got my moneys worth. As for wow not having hackers etc thats obsured and on top of that dont forget about the chineese sweat shops paying children 5p a week to play wow so that some online gold shops can make stupid amounts of money selling all this to people that have far too much money than sense

coldsong

28-04-2008, 12:33

coldsong

28-04-2008, 12:37

I'm laughing on the inside here. Let's rummage through your posts and find some goodies!

It looks like P2P didn't circumvent any *corruption* at all.
Even a quick Google search points you to all kinds of WoW hacks, bots and explots. So, to mirror what you said to Me2Nik, "Get Real."

When you compare D2X to WoW in this case It's essentially the same thing. Botted/Duped/Hacks/Whatever don't make anyone in D2X a better player.

'Nuff said.:smiley:

umm no. you CANT survive in D2 and be on par with non-legit people if you are legit. Of course that doesnt matter if you only play priv games with friends, which is fine. Dont tell me that as legit player you will have every top end item that dupers/hackers can make/buy. And im not even touching on dirty stuff like chickenhack in hc/ TPPK hack.
In WoW none of that exists. There is no such thing as hack in WoW, the ads you see are to scam noobs out of money. There was a speed hack for a short while and everyone reported with it was IMMEDIATELY banned.
And you cant get gear with gold botting. Gold is only for enchant/gems, etc, at best you can craft a subpar weapon with enough mats (even then for top end crafteables you need to run heroic 5mans, booyah).
In conclusion, get real. you cant compare anti-hacking measures in wow vs d2.... lol.

Me2NiK

28-04-2008, 13:45

You invest enough time in the game and you will be just as potent as the illegit players. The fact is everything they're fabricating is legitimately possible to obtain, it just takes more time to do so. TPPKing is easily counterable without chicken - this coming from a longtime hardcore player - simply by being alert and having enough resistances to take the hit should a situation arise.
What kind of hacks are there in Diablo 2, then? Much like WoW, cheats in Diablo 2 are merely timesaving devices - Maphack reveals the map for you, botting... plays the game for you, tppk hacks do what the game already allows you to do only faster (please do not misconstrude this as me supporting hacks as I have never used one in my life - I consider the game easy enough as it is - I'm just stating a fact)...
Let's compare to the hacks that are currently and readily available in WoW. Well, there's afk battleground bots, gold farming bots (which have thoroughly destroyed the game's economy), [insert important function here] bots... Seems they're doing the same thing. I am no expert economist but I can tell you this. An economy is ultimately based on its raw materials (in this case, crafting mats, particularly and most consistently mats required for enchanting and alchemy due to them being the most enduring professions), this is evident in the impact that the oil shortage has had upon the real-world economy. When the price of the raw materials goes down due to a readily-available and infinite supply in the form of bots, the non-botting players must drive down their prices in a reactionary manner to stay in business, meaning the average player has functionally less gold to deal with. As Blizzard ultimately determines the value of their currency (See: the gold standard) this means that all non-botting players become less independently wealthy de facto, meaning new players will have a significantly harder time affording non-AHable commodities and gathering professions will work at a loss until the economy innevitably rebounds and everything becomes so expensive that alchemists and enchanters won't be able to afford to work without charging ludicrous prices that the would-be customers can't afford due to their mats selling like crap because bots have driven down their price. Doesn't affect anything? Please.

coldsong

28-04-2008, 14:10

Me2NiK

28-04-2008, 14:16

What affects one aspect of the economy ultimately affects all aspects of the economy. Enchanting and alchemy are relevant to the endgame and therefore any inflation/deflation of them is relevant to everything.
The prices of T6 BT sets and 20 dollars is being determined by supply and demand. There are more netherweave cloth stacks than there are BT sets. Therefore, they are prived differently.

Master Zap

28-04-2008, 23:06

I think what's being stated here argues aside is that :

one of D2's appeal is it's free of monthly fees.
A well supported game shouldn't have to be the exclusive realm of play to play.
A pay to play game should be bug and hack free , after all thats what your paying for.

The problem I have is the industry suddenly deciding it's fine to release games that aren't finished products and then saying well you better pay up each month if you want to continue playing and to disregard the bugs and hacks that exist. The game producers like the pay to play model since its like selling us another game every couple months. I am not expressly opposed to paying for entertainment.

I long for the days when I could buy a game install it and be good to go. No monthly subscriptions, online play that doesn't have any groundbreaking bugs or cheats. Is this to much to ask for? . Make a game like this and "we'll" gladly purchase this. I bet it would be so successful the game makers can sell us new content periodically if they want to add stuff.

I prefer D3 to be free online. I would only pay for it if I felt it was justified, and by that the game has to be incredible.

I've waited 7 years for d3 and D3 has some serious boots to fill. So if/when it gets released, make sure that it's "done". I dont want to see some buggy hasty game like Hellgate.

coldsong

29-04-2008, 00:17

I agree with you, Master Zap, but the reality is that the companies want to pass the cost of continuous product support (updates, battling the hackers, stable servers) on the consumer.

rlegend

29-04-2008, 00:20

You cant compare a game that is seven years old (D2X) and that is only four years old with constant expansions(WoW). The time allowed for poeple to create hack programs for diablo 2 is much greater than the time allowed for WoW. That is one of the main reasons u see hacks more on D2X

coldsong

29-04-2008, 00:40

dupers destroyed D2 economy in the first year of its existance. Need I remind 330 dmg lances, 120 exec swords, 890 armors with +90 life, 7/7 dual leech rings etc?

ChrisF

29-04-2008, 01:18

Can I just point out that without dupers there would probably be about 10 people on battlenet with a high end runeword. According to atma the best chance to get a Zod Rune is 1/2987183. Lets be honest here, you probably have more chance of winning something substantial on the lottery than getting baal to drop you a Zod. Im not condoning what Hackers/dupers do but they made the high end items affordable. If blizzard are going to give the same odds for certain items to drop in diablo 3 then people are gonna cheat to get them. Im not saying a Zod or Vex should pop out of every other chest but surely when blizzard made runewords like Phoenix or Last Wish they either didnt expect anyone to ever make them or they expected people to dupe the runes. If they make it pay to play how will it be any different? People are getting smarter and smarter and when blizzard makes an anti-dupe programme people will make and anti-anti-dupe programme within a few weeks, maybe sooner.

Just my opinion.

coldsong

29-04-2008, 01:56

-better globalID detection, weekly scans to erase all dupes with same globalIDs
-BOP/BOE system like in WoW

and i agree gear shouldnt be too rare. MFing for top end stuff is just mind numbing.

PerfectFifth

30-04-2008, 03:38

Boo. Yeah, make it pay-to-play, and alienate the majority of the d2-playing population.

coldsong

30-04-2008, 14:48

you mean the children and the hackers? good.

MrCanon

30-04-2008, 15:18

I'd pay 10$ month ONLY for secure servers.

No new content whatsoever.
All work should be on removing bots, dupes, exploits, spam, rmt, etc.

Retail expansions every 8-10 months for new content.

coldsong

30-04-2008, 15:28

:thumbsup:10-15 sounds fair to me

PerfectFifth

30-04-2008, 19:48

you mean the children and the hackers? good.

No, those are exactly the ones that would stay.

coldsong

30-04-2008, 20:50

obiwansbane

30-04-2008, 22:28

that makes no sense. mature players dont have a problem paying a fee for a well supported game. hackers are less attracted to it because they dont want to risk their money, and kids just dont have the credit card to make a payment

and you say you play WoW? have you ever BG'd in your life? where are these so called mature players? been to alliance lately?

NASE

30-04-2008, 22:36

How do you guys stand against a buy per hour. In stead of paying for one month - and if you don't play your money is waisted - that you pay for lest say 50 hours, playable when ever you want.
That way, us little hour players aren't forced to play, we simply take on our credit whenever we want.

Thoughts?

Aranock

30-04-2008, 22:54

Why D3 Shouldn't be pay to play...
It implies that D3 will most likely be an MMO.

What would be better?
Free battle.net as the company has done for their previous games.

I want to see battle.net! The same battle.net that's been around in all of Blizzards other mainstream titles. The battle.net screen with a variety of different channels, or the ability to make your own, as well as listings of all the games in progress, etc. Interface upgrades would be great to see too :thumbsup:

Blizzard has always patched their games; it has just take ages for some to come out. Nevertheless, they do patch the game. As for new content, i'm happy with expansions such as BroodWars, Tides of Darkness, Lord of Destruction, and The Frozen Throne. :thumbsup:

I've been a Blizzard fan since about 97. Yes, i understand that games evolve over time, but i don't think evolution = MMO.

coldsong

01-05-2008, 00:48

doesnt have to be MMO to be P2P. Can be same style as D2. rather, online service = fee.

Llama8

01-05-2008, 14:19

that makes no sense. mature players dont have a problem paying a fee for a well supported game. hackers are less attracted to it because they dont want to risk their money, and kids just dont have the credit card to make a payment

Not necessarily, the kids may not have their own credit (or debit) cards, but their parents probably do. And you can't deny that some (many?) parents give in all to easily to their spawn's demands for electronic entertainment (amongst other things).

A monthly fee probably would give a reduction in the volumes of children & hackers, but that doesn't mean that it would have any effect on the numbers of immature players.

I'm a mature (by that I assume you mean adult) player, though I've not played D2 in a while, but I don't want to pay a monthly fee. It makes me feel like I "have" to play, to get the "most" out of my subscription, rather than the game being something I can pick up & play to relax. I have no problem with buying expansion packs every few months/year, but I would expect a company (especially one with the financial resources of Blizzard) to support a non-subscription game with bug fixes (and maybe balancing). Maybe I'm being unreasonable, but I would want a company to fix bugs in a program I paid for.

Mestre Crjspim

01-05-2008, 22:49

I'm a mature (by that I assume you mean adult) player, though I've not played D2 in a while, but I don't want to pay a monthly fee. It makes me feel like I "have" to play, to get the "most" out of my subscription, rather than the game being something I can pick up & play to relax.

The problem resides here... for you, for me and for the large majority of videogame players, a videogame is something we like to play to relax or enjoy a good time with absolutly no other thoughts in mind whatsoever. But, for them big companies, a game is undoubtably only a source of money. And taking the capitalist point of view to the limit, the more they can make, the more they will make, no matter what. Their are counscious of the price and the consequences os these actions, but they don't really care if we just rush home, make dinner in 5 minutes and jump in the PC to minimize our loss (gaming time/monthly fee ratio). It's easy to support my statment... just look in this forum and you'll see that in every other thread someone has complained about bug filled and unfinished games being release...

PerfectFifth

04-05-2008, 23:15

that makes no sense. mature players dont have a problem paying a fee for a well supported game. hackers are less attracted to it because they dont want to risk their money, and kids just dont have the credit card to make a payment

Parents will buy their kids subscriptions if their kids want them. The craxy obnoxious "I can play 35 hours a week!" kids will want and get them. These are the same kids that download all the client-side programs and mods and use farcast and gmod. Hackers will always want a challenge and WILL find a way to screw things up, if only temporarily.

On the other hand, "mature" players, mostly who are older, will be discouraged to pay to play because either:

a) they don't have the time to play 50 hours a week and cannot justify the cost for casual gaming purposes, or

b) will not be able to justify another regulr bill for something that's not functional. The economy is bad and money is tight.

You've got to think a few steps ahead. Those who still play D2 are those who do NOT play WoW (for the most part). A lot of them don't play WoW because they don't like it, but I would venture to say the most of them don't play because of a more logistical reason, such as above. Those who want something more and are willing to pay for it have already moved on, and are not part of the "D2" crowd of today. Thus, making it P2P will alienate most of the "D2" crowd.

MrCanon

05-05-2008, 16:36

Thus, making it P2P will alienate most of the "D2" crowd.
Nah, they'll still pay to play no matter what.

My suggestion for D3 would be:

- Free singleplayer with patches

- Free LAN with patches

- 10$ p2p for online play FOR SECURE SERVERS. NO NEW CONTENT.

twiiik

05-05-2008, 23:17

-better globalID detection, weekly scans to erase all dupes with same globalIDs
-BOP/BOE system like in WoW
and i agree gear shouldnt be too rare. MFing for top end stuff is just mind numbing.

I mean, WTF?!
BOP/BOE is one of the things which REALLY makes D2 a better game than WoW. You, go play WoW! Stay away from D2 and D3.
WoW right now is so dumbed down a three year old could play that game. The loot system of D2 is the absolute best of any game to date. WoW doesn't even come close by 5 light years. And BOP/BOE means that you never can have any really good gear to switch between your characters. It also destroys any form of trade and every time you start a new character you start from scratch.
I mean, come on. Are some of you numb nuts trying to turn Diablo into a WoW clone? :shocked:

I played WoW for three months then quit. Blizzard introduced PvP instances around that time which removed the last pitiful trace of any fun to PvPing and managed to turn the one thing which might have been some fun into another grind fest - just like the utterly boring raid instances.

Really should have written a more coherent post, but I'm just too shocked after first experiencing such joy of finding this forum, then discovering people here actually thinking WoW better than D2.

PS.
I still play D2 from time to time. Had it been a monthly charge I would never have done that...
Make D3 free to play online, but release expansions from time to time which you can buy through Battlenet. I buy an expansion for D2 in a second of it's release even if it cost $100 USD

Mestre Crjspim

06-05-2008, 00:59

I can only say that I didn't even try WoW. It can be the best game in the whole wide world, but I'm not going to play it. Diablo is my game and until DIII comes out, Blizzard can just forget my hard earned money.
Some of these Diablo-fans-wannabes want to kick the concept and essence of the game as it is and turn it to a "WoW sequel". Seems like that Diablo mysticism that created an enormous legion of fans has been lost to a mass-market game (by that I mean obviously WoW). Come on, in spite off being from the same company, Diablo and WoW have nothing, absolutly nothing to do with each other, and Diablo World has much more potential than Warcraft World.

Akimbo

06-05-2008, 01:17

I personally wouldn't pay for D3. It's just not worth it imo unless you're playing 24/7, ( and I mean literally 24/7, no sleeping etc. ) otherwise you're paying to play half the time ( or significantly less for some people. ) Guild Wars is a free-to-play game, and apart from bots has never really suffered a large amount of "hacking" abuse. ( Btw what most people refer to as "hacking" isn't hacking in the slightest fashion....it's a poor choice of word. ) I don't mind paying every 6months/year for extra content. This thread seems to have turned into a stupid WoW vs. contest which I don't really understand. The basic arguement is this:

1)Cheaters get access to currency faster than legit.
2)Currency buys things.
And so: Cheaters get access to things faster than legit.
However: Cheaters are still noobs who will get owned by a legit player with skills who may have spent significantly more time obtaining said "things" but there will be people with them none the less.
But at the end of the day: I don't care if there are cheaters as long as I can enjoy the game myself and with friends.

Just saw ppl talking about gear and stuff.....again GW's has it just right I think. Top damage gear isn't that hard to come buy. The best -looking- top end gear is. End of the day the stats are the same and it's all about prestige.

Drax

06-05-2008, 01:36

No matter what when Diablo III does come out whether it is free to play or pay to play it will be hacked. People live for hacking, I had a nice long chat with one of a group of 6 who took the Diablo 2 (battle net) code apart using (a hex editor(this is an assumption because he was talking about breaking down the coding into hex-form he never did specify "hex-editor")) back when D2 was in its early life. He said it took a couple of months, but it was worth it knowing him and his buddies would tick off countless amounts of people.

Whether or not this fella was honest or not.. who knows. After reading through some of the sites for all cheaters, I'd believe it. Find any hacking website out there for any game, and see just how much they gloat... it is truly pathetic.

Personally... many people fell in love with D2 because of the fact it was single player, you didn't have to have an internet connection to play. Multiplayer was a huge bonus. I still think that the options made available in Multi-player only mode should be made available to single player people...ie rune words, cube recipes and such. (I know there is an area covering that topic.)

Having played D2 since the day it hit the shelves (taking a 4 year break from it) and returning to enjoy it even more that I've had that break. This says quite a bit for what Blizzard has accomplished with D2, and they should be commended for that. I would never pick up a p2p game after 4 years and give it another go.... why? It would be a huge waste of money and time!

I hope D3 will keep its core fan base in mind and do the right thing, rather than possibly alienate thousands of would be customers. If you like your p2p then keep supporting the WOW servers and keep dreaming that people aren't hacking the heck out of it.

Drax

red_beard_neo

12-05-2008, 07:50

that makes no sense. mature players dont have a problem paying a fee for a well supported game. hackers are less attracted to it because they dont want to risk their money, and kids just dont have the credit card to make a payment

Quite the opposite, what we're seeing here is a generational divide in gaming philosophy.

The mature players still consider a game to be a stand-alone product, a shrink-wrapped bit of entertainment that works right out of the box. And keeps working right, providing replay value.

The younger generation has been conditioned to consider a game a monthly service, an ongoing construct where purchasing the core game only gives you the right to pay every month to play, even if the newest patch breaks things or there's a massive server outage or you're getting married and don't have time to play.

Admittedly, Battle.net has always straddled this line, but that's what has always made it popular, what has kept its audience coming back for more -- it's the best of both worlds. Why would anyone who remembers the good old days pay more (and keep paying) to lose the best of old-school gaming and gain the worst of service-based playing? If Blizzard doesn't do it someone else will, and the mature players will pick up camp and go over there, Diablo-junkies or no.

DarkmageMaster

14-05-2008, 15:15

i am really looking forward to D3 but personally i will not play if its p2p. ive played d2 for...god...i actully cnt remember its been so long. but years lol. ive tried WoW and played for 1 month. it wasnt the game i didnt like but the presure to play cuz i know its costing me money lol i cant just stop playing for a bit then start it up again. i also just thinks its wrong to be charge per month for something you've alrdy bought. what happened to the good old days of being a kid when u save up for weeks to buy a game you've dreamed about playing (£30 for a 12 yr old can be alot wen u only get a few pound a week). now if i was saving up for a game i wld have to buy it then save up to play for a month which wldnt leave ne room for trying new games out. i mean i know im grown up now and £30 is not much but i do prefer the old days.

Mestre Crjspim

15-05-2008, 14:35

i mean i know im grown up now and £30 is not much but i do prefer the old days.

Right on target, brother!!! This is the market evolution, which doesn't mean new targets, but means new charateristics of the previous targets. What I mean is that some years ago games were meant to "attack" some market segments, mainly young teenagers. Today those teenagers have grown up, they work thus receiving their monthly wages and are now able to afford much more concerning to games. If back in the days I saved my money for months to get that amazing realese in Christmass time, now I can just buy one game whenever I want without jeopardizing the "game of the year" realese. So, if you have the money, if you like the game, if you have some history playing previous games of the same series, you're the one likely to be the target of the company throughout their marketing. Previously you had 10-20 years and very little amount of money; now you're 20-30 years and have a regular income that allows you to "go out and buy".

BoD Trader

15-05-2008, 14:53

lets be honest do we really care about the dupes?
We have Hrs to owe for dupes so i for one dont really care about them

NASE

15-05-2008, 14:56

Yet we care about tppk, autoaim hacks, fast cast hacks and whatnot. You can't say, we want people to find loophole, though only the ones we like.

Therefore, I'm missing your point BoD Trader.

chubz

22-05-2008, 03:07

why would anyone feel they have to play the game 24/7 to get their moneys worth? i mean its only $15/month and it ensures regular upkeep of the game in question, so when you do go on and play the game it will be up to date, the cheaters will be banned, bugs fixed, regular patches, as it is now d2 is free, and that is the only reason blizzard no longer takes care of the game(or is very slow to do so) meaning rampant botting, duping, hacks/mods, and bugs that have plagued the game for as long as it's been around, imo it is well worth the money to someone who plays the game regularly(as in a few hours a week, doesn't mean you have to waste your life playing it all the time) just look at other things which cost money, you pay your phone bill right or your internet? $30/month and you don't sit on your phone/computer 24/7 to get your moneys worth for that, so why would you feel you'd have to play a game around the clock just because you're paying for it?

Omikron8

22-05-2008, 08:14

Nah, they'll still pay to play no matter what.

My suggestion for D3 would be:

- Free singleplayer with patches

- Free LAN with patches

- 10$ p2p for online play FOR SECURE SERVERS. NO NEW CONTENT.

yes here comes hellgate london all over again

because that two-tiered system was such a smashing success

Llama8

22-05-2008, 10:06

yes here comes hellgate london all over again

because that two-tiered system was such a smashing success

To be fair, MrCannon said SP/LAN could be free & (in my view) "proper" MP would be P2P.

And I personally don't know how much of HGL's issues were down to the game itself compared to it's two-tier F2P/P2P MP system.

Personally, I'd like MP like Guild Wars, no monthly fees, but regular expansion packs which we buy (or not).

you pay your phone bill right or your internet? $30/month and you don't sit on your phone/computer 24/7 to get your moneys worth for that, so why would you feel you'd have to play a game around the clock just because you're paying for it?

True, but phone/net access has never been free for me in the past. I understand what you're saying, but I just don't like someone coming along & saying "You know you were able to play online for free before? Well now you can't!". I understand all of the arguments that people are putting forward for P2P (some are valid, some sound to me like validations for your position, rather than a persuasive argument), I'm an accountant, so I can definitely understand the business case for P2P, I just don't like it as a gamer/person. Maybe I'm too entrenched in the past & the old business models (pay once for a game), but I just don't like paying monthly fees for games, and whether it's logical or not, I would feel like I "need" to play more than I would otherwise to "get my money's worth", which would probably lead to me getting divorced (which would be bad).

Ilikestuff

22-05-2008, 13:23

i've played Diablo since the original, and i love the series. but i wouldnt pay to play it. i wouldnt pay to play any game online. its a way of extorting monies out of people. if the diablo fanbase flat out refused to pay, then they'd have to make it free to play. besides, it probably wont be as good as D2:lod in my opinion

EDIT: fat fingers pressing too many buttons :p

dallasdakota

24-05-2008, 22:36

I hereby agree fully with LIAma8´s second paragraph, should it matter anything. :P

New title : Why D3 shouldn´t be Pay to Play.

Personally, I´m still with buying it, when you buy it you give a amount of money. Never again should real life money be in-volved again with the same cd unless you have a problem with it(I.E. damaged).

About stopping hacks and such with P2P : Seriously, guys, thats just crap. If the game is good enough. There will be hackers. If your game is good enough. There will be bots. If your game is good enough. There will be hackers and people making Bots to make money of it. For them on the large scale they sell at, it almost never matters, its just the first few months of money to see if there´s enough market which can be done easily by the internet while not buying the game these days.

Ilikestuff : There´l be a new group, a group of newbs and noobs. They will hear that it is a MMO and P2P, both like WoW, and that its a good game. They´l do it.

Wurmer

25-05-2008, 11:54

As many here I am from the old school and I'd like to have free access for on line play. I don't mind paying for expansion and new content every few months but I would feel screwed if I had to pay to play a game I just payed good money for...

sneakytails

29-05-2008, 03:53

The diablo franchise has a history of a great single player and multiplayer (through bnet).

I feel they could improve and update the multi player capabilities of the game. Especially for guilds. There should however still be room left to those who occasionally play online or those who like to quest and not pvp.

Im a single player mostly, Whenever I move around in my life and loose internet access SP is always there for me. I hope this never changes. The reason I have been playing it for so many years it that the format fits my life as a casual/semi hardcore gamer.

I love being able to stop playing for 4 months and get back into it, still new stuff to try!

Therefore a MMO format with monthly fees would be a bad choice for me and many others who have been with this game for so long.

wigle

29-05-2008, 15:27

I just thought I would mention that if Diablo 3 is 3D, then intelligent botting will be much harder than D2. Also, since the map was client-side in D2, it was trivially easy to auto-teleport to bosses using a script. If they fix these things, I think the situation would be improved. Of course, it wouldn't stop people from farming manually and selling items.

tyranius

30-05-2008, 02:03

USEast Tristan

30-05-2008, 04:20

Why D3 Online should be Pay to Play...

...so that I never feel the need to buy another Blizzard title again. Diablo II was it.

TheDarkSide

30-05-2008, 10:19

If it removes all the cheaters / hackers / bots than Id be willing to pay to play it online . $20 bucks a month is not a lot of cash really . It would be nice if they implemented a Pvp button that was checked on game creation as well . The thought of playing Diablo without having to monitor every person that joins the game because they want to hack you to death is very pleasing . The thought of an actual party played game is refreshing as well .

Plus P2p will remove half of the brats that currently exist on the realms and possibly make it so the other half that exist can uphold an actual conversation without L33T talking or whatever that nonsense is called ..

:laugh:

Llama8

30-05-2008, 14:35

Plus P2p will remove half of the brats that currently exist on the realms and possibly make it so the other half that exist can uphold an actual conversation without L33T talking or whatever that nonsense is called ..

Nah, they'll either whinge/whine at their weak-willed parents until said parents pay the monthly fees, or "borrow" their parent's credit cards. Or use a debit card.

Drakaan

31-05-2008, 01:22

Im going to have to agree with the above. Either way you'll still have hackers and scammers regardless.

Turbocannon

31-05-2008, 14:22

1. Who gives a crap about spambots?
2. Omg hackers! Other than the obvious danger in HC there isn't much of a problem with them - bar the gold loss that might occur.
3. I wouldn't pay to play. Of course I always have to shell out an one time fee for a game, but I find monthly payments pointless. Only quality can excuse that - no hacker-free environment can.

Koyen

31-05-2008, 14:50

LOL D3 P2P MY *** dude first of all. 15 bucks a month is 30 bucks in my country and yes that would bug me. Dude if D3 is P2P im not gonna play it cuz i hate those ridiculous p2p games. I can pay once and once only. If they lowered it to like 5 bucks a month then I'd play but not 15 bucks. So diablo P2P NO WAYWell...i might come off harsh here but your post proves original point to be exactly what i want. You won't pay therefore won't get a realm access. This, in turn, means i have one less person using "cuz" and "dude" to deal with. I'm happy

Omikron8

01-06-2008, 00:14

Well...i might come off harsh here but your post proves original point to be exactly what i want. You won't pay therefore won't get a realm access. This, in turn, means i have one less person using "cuz" and "dude" to deal with. I'm happy

if you think a monthly fee removes people using "cuz" and "dude" as every second word you are in for a big surprise

Llama8

02-06-2008, 13:04

if you think a monthly fee removes people using "cuz" and "dude" as every second word you are in for a big surprise

Oh yes!

And not all of use tight-fisted/"old fashioned" people (who "refuse" to pay monthly) type like that.

tyranius

02-06-2008, 19:21

Well...i might come off harsh here but your post proves original point to be exactly what i want. You won't pay therefore won't get a realm access. This, in turn, means i have one less person using "cuz" and "dude" to deal with. I'm happy

Like the guy above said I'm not the only talking like that.

CBK

03-06-2008, 06:37

You cant compare gold with items... honestly. Best items in WoW are in 25 man dungeons and in arena. Gold is just for the professions, nothing more. Even if you botted 100 000 gold you wouldnt be worth crap.

If hacking in WoW was as bad as D2 you would see this: entire vengeful gladiator sets and entire T6 BT sets being sold for 20 dollars, or sold for some netherweave cloth stacks.

p.s. and dont forget TFT, another free online game from blizz where maphackers/drophackers havent been banned/fixed for over a year now.

I had to go back and quote this to argue on this debate. Honestly my position towards this argument is neither, for I don't like to pay but honestly don't mind either if it is worth it.

First off, let me prove you wrong Coldsong. Go into your WoW now(if you play it.) Just stay on a mayor city for 5 mins and notice how many spam messages on the trade channel you get from bots/people selling gold, characters, trading accounts/characters(which D2 didn't had), etc. Honestly you believe that you can't get everything with gold? WRONG. I've seen trade messages of people offering 1k gold for a 3 games in a high rated arena team so they get 1.2k arena points next week without moving a muscle. Raids? Piece of cake. Even in a low population server like the one I played(lethon, character named Xypher) you had people who offered money/gold to GM's(guild masters that is) so they called them at a raid so they get a drop from a boss(they just sit and die while the whole raid just killed the boss). It's really shocking. Back in the days of D2 I saw like 1-2 max of this kind of messages, in WoW it is constant. Tech support? Give me a break! I have waited for 4 hours on an instance bugged for a GM(this time Game Master) to look at my ticket and say he can't solve it. Honestly, D2's tech system is way much better(today days that is, I remember the days of being in queues for days).

On the other side, you all have to see it far from another POV. WoW is a 10gb(and extending) game. It has huge amounts of info to maintain and constant updates to feed the members to keep them attracted. Paying a monthly fee is something that has help held the community. I bet you all not know that blizzard actually MADE a analysis before making WoW P2P. The results were: yeah, they were going to have millions of copies bought, but throughout the time the expenses were going to be so good they wouldn't have been able to keep up with it, and at the end lose a lot of the playing population(look at D2). So in the end P2P was better for keeping both customers satisfied and for the game not becoming a expense.

This is why my view of p2p is undecided. As some people have said before I have to see it with my own eyes and play it. If it is worth it, the hell I'll pay my $15. If not, well too bad. Just remember to take in consideration both sides of the problem and then drift out your conclusions.

tyranius

03-06-2008, 20:47

If its p2p i'll just play in those pirate servers (there are quite a few here in my country for d2 so i figure there will be for d3 also)

smartdot

04-06-2008, 22:37

Diablo 3 will never be P2P as long as WoW is doing well. They would kill alot of WoW subscriptions if they did that. Not a huge amount, but enough that it would make a difference. I play both and i can 100% say that if i had to choose between the two, i would pick D3.

Ilikestuff

05-06-2008, 16:10

lets be honest do we really care about the dupes?
We have Hrs to owe for dupes so i for one dont really care about them

i care about the dupes. i dont like that because high rune drops are rare, and cubing to high runes takes alot of time and patience, people cheat to get them instead. that then has a whole knock on effect on the trade prices etc of everything in the game.

maybe runes are made to be rare, so that not everyone and their dog can tele around because everyone has an eni made out of duped runes. maybe blizz wanted only a select few people to have these uber runewords. but the spoilt brats who dont like working for things, cheat their way into getting them.

its the kids that dupe that drag the game down, but alot of people dont care because it means they too can get great items

cursedfrankie

05-06-2008, 18:19

maybe blizz wanted only a select few people to have these uber runewords. but the spoilt brats who dont like working for things, cheat their way into getting them.

its the kids that dupe that drag the game down, but alot of people dont care because it means they too can get great items

First off, look at what you just said. Do you really want a game to feel like work??? This is supposed to be something we do to relax and have fun. If having a duped enigma makes someone enjoy the game a little bit more, how does that negatively affect you in any way?
Now i'm not saying that duping is good in the least, i've never tried it nor (knowingly?) used duped items. But if your only reason for wanting to get the best items is to show them off to other people...I really feel sorry for you. The game should be about personal satisfaction; when you get that really rare drop you should feel a sense of accomplishment.

Lastly, I think duping is mainly a 2d game problem. I've never noticed a problem with it in 3d games, have you?

Noammr

05-06-2008, 23:41

Lastly, I think duping is mainly a 2d game problem. I've never noticed a problem with it in 3d games, have you?

I think that has nothing to do with 2d/3d and everything to do with improved programming and security with less loopholes.

And I know gw had a single duping method which was discovered and fixed along with a mass-ban to all involved (or so they say...).

Ilikestuff

06-06-2008, 14:14

First off, look at what you just said. Do you really want a game to feel like work??? This is supposed to be something we do to relax and have fun. If having a duped enigma makes someone enjoy the game a little bit more, how does that negatively affect you in any way?

well, firstly, dupes affect the trade prices, which affects me.

secondly, why bother playing the game if youre not going to play it properly? there are quests in the game, there are acts in the game. you have to work to develop your char. just because you have to work at it, doesnt make it any less fun? if anything it makes it more fun because as you said, you get a sense of acheivment when you find a great item, or when you complete a certain act.

and to say that i want these great items to show off with etc is less to do with me, and more to do with the dupers themselves. why do you think they dupe the great items? because they want to be able to say "hey look at me, i got an eni, woo!".

its a mindset that spreads wider than merely computer games, but into society as a whole. we have all these dole scroungers with flatscreen tv's and next gen games consoles. they want all the best stuff without working for them. just like the dupers in the gaming world.

CrimsonOmen

06-06-2008, 15:12

I dont care about dupes. I never make them or whatever, and I never had them poof on me. It should be free.

Llama8

06-06-2008, 17:14

secondly, why bother playing the game if youre not going to play it properly?

As you state further down, not everyone agrees with this viewpoint. If they did, there wouldn't be any hackers/dupers/etc in game & a less money spent on the dole (etc) in real life (how much is a different kettle of fish).

its a mindset that spreads wider than merely computer games, but into society as a whole. we have all these dole scroungers with flatscreen tv's and next gen games consoles. they want all the best stuff without working for them. just like the dupers in the gaming world.