Newbie trading question

[hacgumyu]

I went to a trade game that one guy ask me to go Act 2 and stay behind Atma's bar, he said it's for checking my items are dupe or not.. Is this reasonable? or a scam trying to hack me?

[ProfessionalBerg]

Hack. Do not drop trade, unless it's Torch for Torch or Anni for Anni (even then, be careful and wary!). As someone wise said: "never drop anything you aren't prepared to lose". Truly wise words.

There are speedhacks out there, and there are some "legal" ways to scam (like walls you can take items through etc). Do NOT drop items "to prove they're legal".

[hacgumyu]

thanks for the tips, i thought it will be a scam... what will be a safe way to trade for torch and anni?

[ProfessionalBerg]

Torch <-> runes or other non-torch items works in the trade window. The only trades not possible are TfT, AfA and GfG (Anni, Torch and Gheed's).

[The Demon Slayer]

u could always get a moderator to watch the trades

[Copilot]

Just so you know in atma's bar its possible to pickup an item from one side of the bar to another. So he goes on one side you go on the other and when you drop your items he picks up yours from way across the bar.

[Alecz]

Nice informative thread, I never knew about this.

Usualy the best way to trade is via the trade window, but even ther you should be careful!

There are plenty of items that look alike and have VERY different properties, just double-check before pressing the check button.

Also I wouldn't trade for "high" runes, I heard 99.99% of them are dupes and can poof any time (whatever poof means, I guess they dissapear - never happend to me, cause I don't accept them)

[Copilot]

Yes they are all dupes, they poof when the original rune is in the game game as you copy you have. I don't know how you expect to get any runewords because the chances of you finding all the high runes just to make them are about 1:100,000,000. I have never had a highrune poof you shouldn't be so paranoid.

[Alecz]

first I didn't fully understand what you mean by:
"they poof when the original rune is in the game game as you copy you have"

Secondly, I know that once you put them in runewords, they are "safe".

I do expect to get runewords, I already made several: Ancients Pledge, Malice, Insight, Spirit. I could make a couple more cause i got the runes.
(The highest rune I found was Ist)

However for some people, runewords = HR runewords, which are indeed probably impossible to make; they were intended to be that way, that's why they are so uber, and Hell difficuly is so easy with them.

What's the point of playing a game that's always easy? Where's the challenge? Long ago I've played Starcraft with cheats, and I would take my SCV's and finish the mission; I DIDN'T enjoy it for long.

This being said.... they are many doable runewords that can be very effective if used correctly and (might) give you more satisfaction (e.g. I made this!:laugh:)

Also trading for a counterfeit item is generally not a good idea... Would you buy pumma shoes? (yes, double "m"):laughing:

[Copilot]

I meant runewords that require at least one HR, of course you can make spirit its easy to get those runes.

What don't you understand? Maybe you don't know what a dupe is, well its a copy of an original rune. Each item has a code attached to it and duping an item copies it and gives it the same code as the original. Since there can only be one item with the code the dupe poofs.

I understand you don't want to trade for a counterfeit item but you can't consider a duped rune anything like fake puma shoes. Especially not in a game.

[Alecz]

Well... it's just that being legit makes ME feel good.
So because most of the high runes are duped, I'm generally not interested in them. I can play game and feel good at the same time... that's all.

As for those that trade for high runes, they should at least be informed that they are dupes and CAN poof. It only seems fair.

[Bob The Barbarian]

You can get your own high runes by cubing up lower ones. Generally you are safe up to a MAL. If you need a MAL (for example) just trade for two UMs. Put them in the H cube along with a regular topaz and shazzam, you have a legitimate MAL.

Making runes into runewords you don't need is wasteful unless you just like trading off those items. I would save them up for the runewords you will need.

[hacgumyu]

If you see a game name like 10HRs for an Enigma or so, that's like telling you they will give you duped runes.. deal that seems too good to be true must have a catch. If you can use those duped runes into socketable items right away, you are welcome to trade for them. If you want to collect HRs for wealth building, don't bother trading for HRs in these days.

[MuffinMan]

Found Ohm an Lo as my highest ones so far (still unused and all dusty on a nl-mule..), and I know a lot of people play alot more than me. Even saw a Ber drop in a public über the other day..lucky mr.hammers

point is: legit HR's DO drop every now and then. But the odds for trading for one are rather scary

By the way, duped runes goes byebye under a full ruststorm. Even if they are socketed.

[Bob The Barbarian]

I have seen games where someone is offering 40 HRs for DR (whatever that is). Those have got to be duped. Can't see how anyone would have 40 legit HRs to trade away like that, or if he did, why he would do it.

I don't trade for anything above a PUL. If someone offered a MAL (for example) I would ask them for 3 or 4 PULs instead and cube them up. Once you have a supply of PULS, cubing for high runes is easy since it only takes two of each rune (plus gem) to get to the next higher rune -- and they are legit, so you don't have to worry about the runes poofing. This said it only takes 2 to the 12th power to cube to a ZOD, or 4096 PULs. This is if you just cube runes. Naturally you will find others along the way (legitimately) on your forge, running the countess, doing forge runs for others. I have never found the ZOD to be of much use anyway (highest rune that it is) unless you plan to "perm" an etheral item by socketing it. And there is only one runeword which requires a ZOD. Strange way to run a railroad ... to have the most valuable rune be almost valueless.

At any rate, there should be no need to trade for a HR if you stock PULs and cube em along with whatever else you find. I have already reached a point where I cube to a PUL. Once my MFer starts finding better runes, I plan to just keep IO's and up on hand. I can always trade one for a lower rune if need be (will have to beat traders off with a stick - lol - your TIR for PUL) or do a quick countess run at a lower level to get what I need. At least this way I know none of my stuff will disappear due to a full ruststorm.

"If it sounds too good to be true; it usually is"

[hacgumyu]

By the way, duped runes goes byebye under a full ruststorm. Even if they are socketed.


more explanation on Ruststorm plz... I never know about that even socketed item will poof due to the duped runes?

[ProfessionalBerg]

No, only the runes in the sockets will poof. However, if the base item itself was duped, it will poof too.

Ruststorm is an anti-dupe program run by Blizzard, with an obvious goal to find and erase all duped items. It consists of 2 parts:

1. Passive ruststorm. This is the program that runs each time you enter or leave games. It checks for dupes against dupes of other players in the same game. It is rather rudimentary, for example, cubed duped and socketed duped runes won't poof due to passive ruststorm. However, if you suddenly find some of your HR's have "poofed" due to no apparent reason, it's most likely that you joined a game with a player that had the "clone brothers" of the runes you had.

2. Active ruststorm. This is the global database checking program. It checks EVERY item on the WHOLE realm for duplicates. It checks socketed items, cubed items, personalized items, etc. etc. etc. So far, luckily, no method to evade full ruststorm has been invented. However, full ruststorm is a lengthy and costly procedure, requiring lots of time, manpower and money to run. Thus, it is run very seldom. Last time, I think, full ruststorm was run in 2006.

[Alecz]

...
So far, luckily, no method to evade full ruststorm has been invented. However, full ruststorm is a lengthy and costly procedure, requiring lots of time, manpower and money to run. Thus, it is run very seldom. Last time, I think, full ruststorm was run in 2006.

Ruststorming sounds like fun!:cool: I think it would be much more exciting to have active ruststorms more often.

Why do they require manpower and money??? Is it done manually? Isn't it a program or something like that?

[SnickerSnack]

However, full ruststorm is a lengthy and costly procedure, requiring lots of time, manpower and money to run.

Can you elaborate? Does it just take a huge amount of processor time? Lots of manpower; why? If you remember where you read that, a link would be much appreciated.

[Alecz]

And also, when the pooffing occurs which items/runes get destroyed? the originals, the dupes, or both?

[thegiantturtle]

And also, when the pooffing occurs which items/runes get destroyed? the originals, the dupes, or both?Once an item has been duped, the dupe and the original are identical to the game. Dupe is short for duplicate.


As for ruststorm, it's my understanding that it is a series of database scripts that someone created and was never solidified for easy use. It may take some upkeep to get ruststorm ready to be rerun (without causing false positive deletion).

The idea of a ruststorm is to remove all dupes. To do this, every item on every character would have to be compared against every other item on every character. I don't know how their database is set up, but since checking all these items was not a feature at launch, I doubt they created the database in a way that made accessing this data in this way easy. The database is likely optimized to access one character at a time, and then the items for that character at once, not individual items directly, as this would have caused alot of unnecessary overhead. I suspect character data was originally stored in blobs (or the like, one big chunk of data). To create ruststorm, blizzard would have had to have retrofitted indexed blobs (highly unlikely and an extreme drain on the servers when they're not running ruststorm), reworked the database completely at patch 1.10 (no chance in hell), or loaded up all characters to create a massive static list of items, checked for duplicates, and then deleted the duplicates back out of the characters they existed on.

In the one known instance of ruststorm, the servers were down during a major patch update. I don't think ruststorm could possibly be run while the servers are up (too many items would be missed due to the fluid nature of characters), but it should be possible to run.

[Alecz]

Thanks for the great chunk of info.

I guess the servers would have to be down mostly to avoid false positives

[Alecz]

One more "newbie" question:

Which runes are HR?

[fauxgtfour]

Always Lo, Ber, Jah, Vex, Ohm, and Sur are considered hrs
Usually Zod and Cham as well (although some won't take them)
Sometimes Ist
Rarely Mal and Gul

Depends on who you are trading with.

[Alecz]

Thanks,

I just wanted to get some assurance that the 2 pul's I traded for are unlikely to be dupes.