In a perfect world...

[Jaquiezz]

I have to say, after years of anticipation, I expected a lot more out of Starcraft 2. While it will undoubtedly be a good time and will make Blizz truck loads of cash, I don't see it as being worth the wait. I mean what do we get? Better graphics, different units/abilities, a continued story line and slightly altered gameplay. Sounds like a big patch to me, hardly worth 10 years waiting and $60. But what does this have to do with Diablo 3?

Blizzard needs to step it up, big time, for Diablo 3. When I mean step it up, I mean completely wow us, change how video games are played like they were when Diablo and Starcraft first appeared.

D3 needs completely interactive environments. Barbarians uprooting trees and hefting boulders to chuck at opponents, Sorceresses opening the sky up with lightning, Necromancers animating half a mountain side for a golem, Druids summoning an entire forest of Ent like warriors. Depleting minerals and forests isn't enough anymore. These characters need to have the raw power to change the face of their world.

Every battle should be epic, skills should be non-spammable, awe-inspiring feats. Druids should summon massive molten fists of lava from the ground, which explode when a Sorceress blasts them with frozen bolts from the end of her staff, responding by raining razor sharp shards of ice from the heavens which are stopped only by a raging twister emanating from the Druid.

WoW will be a very good template for D3, but childs play compared to the final product. A large MMO world, vast lands with many quests and levels of play, professions, guilds, factions and massive cities that rival the size of real world cities. There should exist players so powerful they are able to lead assaults on these cities and topple them- literally wiping the city off the map, forging game history themselves.

But Jaquiezz, doesn't this cause the game to be unbalanced? Well, of course not. New players will certainly have fun growing up their characters and learning new skills that can't be had any where else. Experienced players will battle each other for God-like status or spend hours battling Gods themselves.

Every player should have the chance to become a hero themselves- doing hundreds of Baal runs doesn't make me feel very epic, but battling for the actual fate of my race and every character on that realm certainly has a sense of importance in it.

The AI should be a force of its own. Not just random rabid bunnies running around unchecked, but armies of demons 50 abreast and 100 deep utilizing spells, archery and artillery to overtake cities. The AI should have strongholds themselves, which when attacked by small groups is not effected, but when hundreds or thousands of players attack at once, they are overwhelmed and crushed, bringing about an era of peace (say a week or so), until the enemy forces resurface. The more experienced players might cut a path to the enemy leadership and artillery, while players who have not yet mastered their skills engage the cavalry and infantry of the opposing army. The AI should be backed by actual programmers capable of making intelligent decisions, hitting weak points and employing advanced tactics.

I believe this is all within the reaches of current technology, and would certainly transform video games forever. If you don't dream it, you can't do it.

[raishi]

one problem...there would be people behind those epic types that would go around and whipe everything off the face of the earth just because they can...

[mgcemir]

ye i know what u mean when u say sc2 is just sc in 3D, tho alot of ppl who played it say its like another game when u actually play it. the pics and videos dont do right to show and feel everything.

and i love your ideas on d3, and i just wish they dont take sc2 engine and tweak it for d3, couse it would really suck if we had barbarian throwing rocks that look like bricks. i mean no flat lines on objects. so my wish is not to make d3 cartoony, basicly to make it like d2 in 3d. keep the realisam and blood and roundness. and not to make it 2 bright scpecially on grass, like they did on sc2 jungle terrain.

[mince pies]

Sounds nice, but after a week of millions of people playing, there'd be no scenery left :tongue:

[mince pies]

I agree with the epic battles, I'd literally cry with joy if they made the battles like that. E.g a Necromancer casting bone spirit could be frozen in mid air by a Sorceress' frost nova, or a Sorceress casting glacial spike could be melted by a fire blast. Would certainly add a whole new dimension to it :smiley:

[raishi]

basically counterspells...

[mgcemir]

basically counterspells...

true, but it would not end in ingame calculator system, u could actually see water on the ground from melted frostbolt, and burned grass from firewall.

[MrOzio]

I have to say, after years of anticipation, I expected a lot more out of Starcraft 2. While it will undoubtedly be a good time and will make Blizz truck loads of cash, I don't see it as being worth the wait. I mean what do we get? Better graphics, different units/abilities, a continued story line and slightly altered gameplay. Sounds like a big patch to me, hardly worth 10 years waiting and $60. But what does this have to do with Diablo 3?

Blizzard needs to step it up, big time, for Diablo 3. When I mean step it up, I mean completely wow us, change how video games are played like they were when Diablo and Starcraft first appeared.

D3 needs completely interactive environments. Barbarians uprooting trees and hefting boulders to chuck at opponents, Sorceresses opening the sky up with lightning, Necromancers animating half a mountain side for a golem, Druids summoning an entire forest of Ent like warriors. Depleting minerals and forests isn't enough anymore. These characters need to have the raw power to change the face of their world.

Every battle should be epic, skills should be non-spammable, awe-inspiring feats. Druids should summon massive molten fists of lava from the ground, which explode when a Sorceress blasts them with frozen bolts from the end of her staff, responding by raining razor sharp shards of ice from the heavens which are stopped only by a raging twister emanating from the Druid.

WoW will be a very good template for D3, but childs play compared to the final product. A large MMO world, vast lands with many quests and levels of play, professions, guilds, factions and massive cities that rival the size of real world cities. There should exist players so powerful they are able to lead assaults on these cities and topple them- literally wiping the city off the map, forging game history themselves.

But Jaquiezz, doesn't this cause the game to be unbalanced? Well, of course not. New players will certainly have fun growing up their characters and learning new skills that can't be had any where else. Experienced players will battle each other for God-like status or spend hours battling Gods themselves.

Every player should have the chance to become a hero themselves- doing hundreds of Baal runs doesn't make me feel very epic, but battling for the actual fate of my race and every character on that realm certainly has a sense of importance in it.

The AI should be a force of its own. Not just random rabid bunnies running around unchecked, but armies of demons 50 abreast and 100 deep utilizing spells, archery and artillery to overtake cities. The AI should have strongholds themselves, which when attacked by small groups is not effected, but when hundreds or thousands of players attack at once, they are overwhelmed and crushed, bringing about an era of peace (say a week or so), until the enemy forces resurface. The more experienced players might cut a path to the enemy leadership and artillery, while players who have not yet mastered their skills engage the cavalry and infantry of the opposing army. The AI should be backed by actual programmers capable of making intelligent decisions, hitting weak points and employing advanced tactics.

I believe this is all within the reaches of current technology, and would certainly transform video games forever. If you don't dream it, you can't do it.

Wow... your imagery is spetacular. Ever think of being a motivational speaker? I bet you'd be good at it.

[Jaquiezz]

Well, much like monsters in WoW, they respawn after a certain amount of time. That is, if a battle between two players destroyed half a forest, it would respawn after a certain amount of time.

Infact this could be a key part of changing the landscape. I see it going two ways. Say you destroy a bush, it could take a minute or two to respawn. If an insane battle between two warriors takes place and a forest is wiped out and left with massive craters and hills, it might take a day or two to reset, and do so gradually, or these things could become a permanent part of the landscape. Say you summon a massive 500 foot golem of dirt/rock, but it gets destroyed. When it collapses, it creates a nice sized hill, which over time is grown over with grass, trees and plant life.

The other way I see it going, is that instead of the environment just randomly replacing itself, it progresses in the natural way. For instance, when a forest is cut down, it starts out again as grass/shrubs, then small trees grow up and replace the grass, replaced with larger trees etc. etc. until you get ancient forests. The older/harsher the landscape, the more difficult it is to destroy/alter. Only the most powerful warriors can master control over the most harsh environments. If a low level player enters an ancient forest and attempts to utilize the landscape, nothing will happen, or the player may kill themselves.

I also think there should be two stages to every characters play. A PvM element, where you begin your training by battling monsters and finding items, then when you reach the highest level of PvM play, the equivalent to killing Baal in hell, you transfer to a PvP realm. Here you must battle other players in order to level up, and only by defeating those at/above your level can you level up (based on a K/D spread, so players can't just feed you kills). You can also take away level limits. With a K/D spread system, players can only get so high- once you begin to reach the top, you either lose more, or are unable to level up because there aren't enough players to defeat. You can even take a few players from each realm at the top and give them god status, giving them abilities and powers that no one else can get.

Wow Blizzard. I practically laid the game out for you. You should hire me in all my brilliance. I can sit here, giving you guys crazy ideas, and you can pay me gawdly amounts of money. Deal?

[Jaquiezz]

Wow... your imagery is spetacular. Ever think of being a motivational speaker? I bet you'd be good at it.

Lol thanks. Forensics for 7 years, plenty of speech writing and a love of wasting my life away in front of the computer all help.

@ Raishi: Its about balance, and creating skills that are balanced. I think most people would be shocked how fast the actual game is created, and how much time is spent balancing things. The developers of SC2 have said the game is pretty much done, but they are testing and doing a balancing act. It won't be like one character can decimate everything in their path. If you create 3+ factions per realm and don't allow 'friendly fire' power will balance out pretty well- you might have one faction that is the most powerful, but three factions half their size united can trim them back down to size. While one player might serve as a commander, they themselves are not able to take out a faction alone. I'm just throwing around ideas here, it can take hundreds of thousands of man hours to create a reasonably balanced game.

@mgcemir: It sounds like you get what this is all about. When I say WoW as a template, I mean an MMO template. D3 should be much darker, much less cartoonish than SC2 or WoW, and they would absolutely need a new graphics engine. The further you travel from civilization the darker it gets- after all, it's a conflicted world. I think a final PvM level, where you go to battle Diablo, should be in hell, covered in fire and brimstone- much like the hell in Constantine (if you've seen it)

[mince pies]

So what you're saying is; a PvP battle between two God-like chars could pretty much obliterate half the Diablo world? If so, then I hope Blizzard hire you ^^

Also, it would be nice if there are epic PvP battles going on, the blasts and sounds, etc. could be heard in a few (virtual) miles radius in the game. :smile:

[Jaquiezz]

Something like that. The world should be just as large as WoW, if not larger, so you might not sink an island, but you could send half a region up in flames if the two most powerful warriors on a realm battled it out. Maybe tremors in that whole region if two high powered mages duke it out, and an earthquake if a massive battle with thousands of players/AI ensues. Thats a very cool idea, good call.

There is so much you could do, the possibilities are limitless. Most of the things like what I mentioned above would happen server-side, and shouldn't lag the game terribly. Granted if you have dial-up and 128megs of ram you might not be able to play, but ram is so cheap now days it shouldn't be a problem upgrading.

[mince pies]

I forgot how to check RAM and stuff like that, but I'm pretty sure I have 1 gig of RAM, that's enough for a game of this capacity isn't it?

[Jaquiezz]

I would imagine so yes, without any other major programs running. It would have to be able to run on anywhere from half a gig to a gig of ram in order to make it marketable to a wide audience. In three or four years when it is likely to be released, who knows how big ram will be. Before too long, getting 4 gig ram will cost you $50 bucks and will be the minimum requirement for many programs. Who knows what the tech will be?

[SingleTMat]

I forgot how to check RAM and stuff like that, but I'm pretty sure I have 1 gig of RAM, that's enough for a game of this capacity isn't it?

Heh, by the time Diablo 3 comes out, I wouldn't doubt if xx GB of RAM would be standard. xxx GB maybe even possible for higher end systems. By the look of things, computers will have a big transformation and advancement within the next 4-5 years, so I'd say it's possible.

[Aaiieeee]

Barbarians uprooting trees and hefting boulders to chuck at opponents, Sorceresses opening the sky up with lightning, Necromancers animating half a mountain side for a golem, Druids summoning an entire forest of Ent like warriors.

The barbarian is going to feel like a bit of a twerp wielding his tree against a mountain side and a thunderstorm!

That aside, this game sounds awesome, I would totally play it.
I agree that PVP should be higher than PVM but not necessarily only avaliable after PVM.

Also there has to be a penalty for losing, maybe a few levels or something, but nothing too drastic else noone will fight.

[stillman]

Those are some good ideas, Jaquiezz. I especially like the concept of the best players being able to influence all those under them, or the world itself. I think there should be limitless power up for grabs. There should be, lets say, lev 99 spells like creating your own uniques which you could sell in your shop. I would go as far as to enable a single player to cover the whole earth with lava, so that all players have to learn flying magic just to survive. Of course, there would have to be another world to travel to after the original world is destroyed. Then, the conquest for the new world begins. For instance, your chr could travel to the moon, but has to have an array of spells to survive in the atmosphere. A chr could become the leader of the moon and would have players under him plundering things from the earth to be transported to the moon.

Basically, every few years, the world gets destroyed wether it's bit by bit or in a major planned catastrophe by the top player (or team of players). Such is the price of powerful spells and items. Perhaps at some point, astronomer characters would become the sleeping giants who are needed to discover the location of the next world in space. Imagine if a single player was completely responsible for chosing the next world for all the players: should he choose the watery planet with very little land space, or the ball of ice planet where gravity is doubled and a ridiculous str req is needed just to move? His/her choice would affect the future of every player.

[Bad Ash]

Wow...sounds very cool!

So if you own the #1. spot on the ladder, you should get a 100% power influx or something like that! and if you are dethroned (killed if the end game content is PvP) the person who gives the killing blow gets the 100% power increased. THAT would be cool. Instead of grouping up to kill the "Heroic Dungeons" you would be forced to group up to kill the best player in the world of D3 haha, could be awesome

Edit: Think of the Hardcore battles!

[Sacrificer]

What if the best player suddenly didnt feel like playing for a few weeks? What would you aim for then?

Otherwise the imagination in this thread is really inspiring. I'd love to see it happening!

[Dorfoumous]

Ok, I hate to be Mr. Negative.

But a couple things..

1) Yay, only the rich people can play the game because it ruins computers and you have to upgrade to DX10, and have to have 100 gig of ram and A Terabyte of Hardrive space to play the game!.

2) MMO...BOOO!! It would ruin the game. RUIN. Just like WoW ruined Warcraft.

3) Don't hold your breath.

[korialstraz]

Ok, I hate to be Mr. Negative.

But a couple things..

1) Yay, only the rich people can play the game because it ruins computers and you have to upgrade to DX10, and have to have 100 gig of ram and A Terabyte of Hardrive space to play the game!.

2) MMO...BOOO!! It would ruin the game. RUIN. Just like WoW ruined Warcraft.

3) Don't hold your breath.

1) In 4 years, who knows if 100 gig RAM is standard or not, and a Terabyte isn't more than 2x 500 gig HDD, and even now you can buy HHDs with a terabyte capacity. I can see your reasoning behind it, but what I mean is it doesn't just have to be for the rich. It all depends on the standards when the game is released ;)

2) It could be a mix of how todays D2 work and an MMO. I'm not sure how it would be done, but I'm sure it would be possible :nod:

3) Who is foolish enough to do that? :grin:

[cursedfrankie]

How does everyone feel about instances?
I've played many a MMORPG and to be honest i'm not a fan. But I definitely realize the benefits of them.
OT-Did anyone play EQ back in the day?

[Llama8]

1) In 4 years, who knows if 100 gig RAM is standard or not, and a Terabyte isn't more than 2x 500 gig HDD, and even now you can buy HHDs with a terabyte capacity. I can see your reasoning behind it, but what I mean is it doesn't just have to be for the rich. It all depends on the standards when the game is released ;)

Granted, I'm an accountant & am therefore a kill-joy (though powerful players "interacting" with the environment more is interesting), but, it won't increase that fast. If 1-2 gig is an average requirement now, having a requirement of ~100 gig would be an increase of 10,000% in four years & I don't think that's happened recently. Also, there isn't any "normal" hardware on the market that could fit 100 Gig of ram (I think & servers don't count. Nor does anything built for the military or anything like that).

[Bad Ash]

How does everyone feel about instances?
I've played many a MMORPG and to be honest i'm not a fan. But I definitely realize the benefits of them.
OT-Did anyone play EQ back in the day?


Instances are ok, but the problem is some are fun while others are horrendously tedious and 80% of the time it requires you to pray you have a good group if it was a pick up group, otherwise you will get annhilated.

[korialstraz]

Granted, I'm an accountant & am therefore a kill-joy (though powerful players "interacting" with the environment more is interesting), but, it won't increase that fast. If 1-2 gig is an average requirement now, having a requirement of ~100 gig would be an increase of 10,000% in four years & I don't think that's happened recently. Also, there isn't any "normal" hardware on the market that could fit 100 Gig of ram (I think & servers don't count. Nor does anything built for the military or anything like that).

I was just throwing out an example here. 100 gig is taking it to extreme, but we've seen a huge increase in computer technology lately. I'm not surprised if 10 gig ram in a few years is standard and having a couple terabyte HDDs is like having 500 gig now. Also procesors are evovling quickly. IIRC you can get up to 4 core procesors now, and I've heard talk of as big as 10 core for use in home computers.

Maybe not in only 4 years, but I don't think 100 gig RAM is unrealistic even for home computers in some years. Ofc it depends if they can make RAM more efficient so it doesn't require as much compared to now. Maybe they can make a 1 gig RAM as powerfull as 4 gig RAM of todays standard. So 4 of those would be 12 gig RAM.

But I think we've done enough OT here now don't you? :scratchchin: :thumbup:

[Kiroptus]

It sounds fun but... would it really be diablo like that?

In my case for example, one of my biggest complaints about Diablo 2 was how your character was way stronger than the enviroment when in Diablo 1 it was exactly the opposite: The enviroment was so opressive that you had to proceed with caution to survive because of all the danger in the game. In Diablo 2 your character can quickly become a demi-god and wipe all who opose you. That killed all the great atmosphere of the original.

Blizzard is known for polishing and/or evolving their franchises but never really bringing a "revolution" to their games. They always play safe. And as much as the scenario you described sounded very cool (I would love a game like that with a GTA-freedom and interaction with a dark medieval scenario) it just doesnt fit Diablo's atmosphere and Blizzard's subtely.

I like things being subtle, I want to feel like I am fighting a real threat in the world, when I enter a dark dungeon I want to feel paranoid (bring back the hiddens from diablo1!) and scared from all sides from the darkness.

Your description is VERY cool for a game but IMO, Diablo3 needs less character power and a more opressive enviroment. A mix between Diablo2's quick interface and Diablo1's atmosphere and survival horror style would be to me, the "In a perfect world..." edition for Diablo 3.


And really... a MMO? That would further kill the atmosphere of the game and even the concept of Diablo. In Diablo its one hero versus a horde of monsters and not really a horde of heroes vs a horde of monsters. Blizzard can create Diablo 3 as an ARPG and even ask for subscriptions to play multiplayer that people would still play it (I know I would). They already have WoW to fill the MMORPG genre, the ARPG genre has been awaiting for Diablo 3 for way too long.

[Llama8]

They already have WoW to fill the MMORPG genre, the ARPG genre has been awaiting for Diablo 3 for way too long.

But WoW won't be around forever, it may have a long product life, but (unless they bring out WoW2), they'll have to either stop supporting it or reduce the support.

I personally think that the Diablo universe is big enough to support an MMO, whether or not I want one (if there were an MMO, I'd want it to continue the dark atmosphere & fast Hero-v-hordes-of-monsters gameplay of D1/2).

[Kiroptus]

WoW has wrath of the lich king comming to it, and will only die when Blizzard says so.


I just cant imagine Diablo's gameplay in a MMO, if it was changed to be like WoW's gameplay where you engage 1 enemy at a time... but then it would be quite boring.


Unless it gets VERY scaled in terms of numbers but how could a server bear 1000s of players versus 10.000 monsters at the same time?

[cursedfrankie]

I can't imagine WOW dying out for at minimum another 10 years. Ultima Online came out in 1997, now although not many are still playing nowadays, the servers are still up and running. Same story with everquest(1997) and countless other MMORPGS. These games don't end, if the player base drops, the companies just reduce their staff and stop doing updates as often as they had been. With WOW's total domination of the MMO market, there is no way Blizzard is going to stop supporting it any time in the near future.

OT- I was just trying to pry apart some frozen chicken that had gotten stuck together, and i totally stabbed myself on my palm. It hurts.