GMB vs Windforce vs MB

[jtam]

Just wondering which combo do you guys think is the best.

1. Faith GMB + Might Merc w/ Pride
2. Faith MB + Might Merc w/ Pride
3. WF + Faith Merc

Which one should I choose, or do you guys have a better suggestion?

[DayDream]

wf+faith
Hit bp, do quite the damage while having a rogue that won't kill herself.

[zejive]

wf + faith merc. Being able to wear atma's scarab while maintaining max speed is domination.

[jtam]

thanks for the input.

so wf + faith would be more damaging than faith + might merc w/ concentrate aura?

[zejive]

I recall reading somewhere that at higher level..the damage will be greater than faith gmb+might merc+pride....but i'm not 100% sure about it. I built both...but i definitely like faith merc and wf much more. The rogue doesn't die and I run chaos games with my glass cannon zon pretty fast. One thing to consider is that you will lack a good tank...but a strong valk will solve the problem.

[accipite]

the base damage of bow is too low, so increase the damage by maximum damage is better than ED%

[jtam]

Well, I was reading Rylix's guide, and it said that

Bow-
At the upper end of the scale your choices for bows are: Grand Matron Bow Faith, Matriarchal Bow Faith and Windforce. Each have there own advantages and weaknesses. Windforce without a faith merc cannot reach a high enough IAS breakpoint to compete with Faith bows, so average damage per second in reality is well short of the other two bows. However, if you want to sacrifice your act 2 might merc and pride, you *can* have an act 1 faith merc. However, this would still not produce a higher damage per second than a faith would. Sorry, Windforce can’t compete anymore.

Onto comparing Faith GMB and Faith MAT. The difference here is GMB has higher damage but requires more IAS to reach the last breakpoint. Reaching this breakpoint is feasible, not impossible (that is if your faith GMB has a 13+ fanat). The problem is freeing up pieces of gear doesn’t lend us many advantages. The only thing here considered to change is your helm. The other pieces of ultimate Bowzon equipment all have IAS anyway.

So when comparing Faith GMB and Faith MAT we are comparing Faith GMB at 3.5 shots/sec at around 4k damage to Faith MAT at 3.5 shots/sec with 3.5k + .25 from dream's aura. As you can see (I'm not going to show you the hard math, its boring tedious and nobody ever reads it anyway) Faith GMB will win overall.

Result: Faith Grand Matron Bow with 13+ Fanaticism Aura.

But then I read elsewhere that WF + Faith is better. Is it just a matter of preference?

[jtam]

Also, what about BOTD + Faith

[accipite]

lets do a roughly calculation. actually, i have never do it before
lets suppose the bowazon is building like this,
wearing Fort(300ed), 400 dex(400ed), wearing 30*3 max(90 max) scs, using multi-shot as main skill(0ed), lvl 90, same shooting speed.
if go with gmb faith bow + might merc, then we have lvl 15 fana(288ed), lvl 18 might(210ed), bow damage(62-320). that is (62-410)*(100+1198ed) = 805-5321 = 3063 avg
if go with wf + faith merc, then we have lvl 15 fana(144ed), bow damage(35-519). that is (35-609)*(100+844) = 330-5749 = 3039 avg
ah~ it is almost same. maybe i lost something in calculation, pls point it out.

[Pillz]

I get a 500 damage difference between the WF and faith GMB at level 88 using those aura levels, the WF being the higher average damage.

[Summerfun]

With top of the line gear and 37* fine small charms of vita, faith with an act2 merc will do more dmg than a wf with faith merc!

The biggest problem is that act2 mercs die all the time because of iron maiden.

[KremBanan]

With top of the line gear and 37* fine small charms of vita
Why would you use those charms if you are going for high damage??

The biggest problem is that act2 mercs die all the time because of iron maiden.
Then Wf+Faith wins.

[Summerfun]

Because those charms are my standard pvp charms.

In my eys, faith + wf wins to.
Im just saying that the other setup gives you a higher dmg output if thats what you are going for

[KremBanan]

They might be standard PvP charms, but they are the wrong charms if you want highest damage.

[Scumi]

what about a brand + faith merc i just love how an ama fires cute little bonespears + you have some low fireeledmg + knockback + ignores targed defense imho superior to windforce - though more expensive

[NASE]

People still don't get it. Both combination are very good combination and each will cut through the game like a hot knife through butter.
It comes down to what you like the best. Some people hate to lose breakpoints when merc lags behind, other hate to lose damage when merc gets killed by IM. And again others are keen on decrypt.

P.S. botd isn't assumed to compete with the other bows, atleast not on these forums.

[Summerfun]

They might be standard PvP charms, but they are the wrong charms if you want highest damage.

The more +max dmg you have from charms, the more will faith pull away from WF.

So if you went for all max dmg in your charms, faith is even better!

[KremBanan]

The more +max dmg you have from charms, the more will faith pull away from WF.

So if you went for all max dmg in your charms, faith is even better!

My point was that 3max damage small charms aint the best ones if you want the highest damage. 14max gcs are. Then followed by 13max.

And when you (all) say that Faith is better, have you tried both builds? Have you calculated the damage gained with 100%pierce you can have with Wf? Have you calculated the damage with Faith combined with 100%pierce, but with a lower frame, since you cant get both max speed and 100%pierce with Faith(except you have to sacrifice Fortitude)? Have you calculated the damage with Amplify Damage you get from Wf? Have you calculated the damage with Faith and Amplify Damage, but with a lower frame, since you cant get both max speed and AmpDam with Faith(except you have to sacrifice Cats/Highlords)? Have you calculated the damage you loose when your PrideMerc dies?

[NASE]

How will you factor in the fact that amp has to trigger?






I'll tell you, you can't.
Therefore, looking at numbers is useless.

[KremBanan]

Therefore, looking at numbers is useless.

Thats exactly my point.

You cant say that Faith is better and thats that. Or the opposite that Windforce is better. (For PvP you can in most cases though)

[JonnyFoster]

can someone break this down another level to where a newbie could understand? =p it seems like valuable information but im getting lost in all the acronyms.

thanks

jonny

[NASE]

it doesn't matter what bow you use, as long as you use one of the big 4.

Faith bow are good and give you a mele merc that can keep monsters away form you. The problem is that when you run chaos sanctuary - where you find diablo - your merc may die very easily.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=4680152#post4680152

Windforce is a unique elite hydra bow that has a huge +max damage bow. The big problem is that hydra bows are very slow. Giving you merc a faith bow will help you firing faster. Sadly, you will lose a merc to keep monsters away from you though with a good decoy and valkery - both skill from the passive and magic skill tab - you don't really need a merc to keep monsters from you. An other advantage is that your merc won't die as easily in the choas sanctuary.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=4744535#post4744535

The other great bows don't have a guide. And are not that popular. Yet remember that they all are very good and each has been claimed to be the best, several times.

[Summerfun]

I have done the math for both setups yes.
And i play on europe, so i have 100% pierce even without a point in pierce.
The bugged belt on europe has 100% chance to pierce.