Intoxicated Head

[Rivfader]

Ayo, i have an poisinmancer at lvl(~)45, and yes he is actually using Poison Dagger. I have an idea of using Andariel's Visage instead of something in style of Shako. Bcuz, 20% IAS, 8-10 Life Steal and now to the very idea, Level 3 Venom. I mean, increasing the poison damage is fun, but someone told me that i shouldn't play with poison times. Is it really a good idea? I think it sounds quite okay, but I would like the opinion of someone more experienced than me.(I've played for three months)

Thanks

[Mad Mantis]

Venom rocks for a PDagger build. It adds its damage per .4 seconds to the entire duration of PDagger. Let me clarify that with an example.

Say we have a PDagger with 1000 damage over 10 seconds and we add a Venom with 100 damage for 0.4 seconds.
The damage per frame for the PDagger is 4. For the Venom it is 10. Now the way in which PDagger stacks with Venom is that the damage per frame for both attacks is added. So you get a damage per frame of 14.
The durations are also added so you have a duration of 10.4. This means that you will be doing 3640 damage over 10.4 seconds.

[Rivfader]

Venom rocks for a PDagger build. It adds its damage per .4 seconds to the entire duration of PDagger. Let me clarify that with an example.

Say we have a PDagger with 1000 damage over 10 seconds and we add a Venom with 100 damage for 0.4 seconds.
The damage per frame for the PDagger is 4. For the Venom it is 10. Now the way in which PDagger stacks with Venom is that the damage per frame for both attacks is added. So you get a damage per frame of 14.
The durations are also added so you have a duration of 10.4. This means that you will be doing 3640 damage over 10.4 seconds.

That's worth it IMO :O

[paul leung]

damage is good,question is how you going to apply this to either pvp/pvm.
pvp is a joke,properly one of the worst build , pvm is very dangerous with so many monsters around and the time to kill them all even high level:poke every single monsters and wait till they die,oh man.
the good new i think is that a little change in equiments,you can convert him into boner

[Dreadful]

if you can get the RW treachery (sheal, thul, lem) 25% chance on striking to cast lvl 15 venom

[NumtyDoo]

I think paul has it right. poison dagger just is not a useful skill anynore.

Necro's do not get a big boost from vitality points, so even one with "high" vitality has at best mid-low life. Necro's also do not have any def boosting skills, as most melee characters do. so as you can see, low life combined with low defense, bad news if you want to go melee.

The other bad news is that poison takes time to kill. So unlike lets say a pally, when he zeals away, as soon as he applies enough damage to kill a monster, that monster dies and is no longer a threat. With a daggermancer, you can only attack one monster at a time, and each monster will still be attacking you for 12-15 seconds after you have applied the poison, then if it takes more than one hit to kill it, you need to reapply the poison, and wait another 12-15 seconds.

So in conclusion, low life, low def, slow kill speed, no AoE melee skills, means bad, bad, bad, melee character. If you want to do poison, your best bet would be a nova mancer, they do more damage per second, and can apply poison to multiple monsters. The other advantage that a nova mancer has is that it allows you to stack up on -%enemy poison resist items which greatly increases your kill speed.

Luckily a dagger-mancer and nova-mancer use the same skills and synergies, so they really are the same build. You just need to swap out your melee items for some caster items, get some -%enemy poison resist items, and you are now a nova-mancer.

[Rivfader]

I think paul has it right. poison dagger just is not a useful skill anynore.

Necro's do not get a big boost from vitality points, so even one with "high" vitality has at best mid-low life. Necro's also do not have any def boosting skills, as most melee characters do. so as you can see, low life combined with low defense, bad news if you want to go melee.

The other bad news is that poison takes time to kill. So unlike lets say a pally, when he zeals away, as soon as he applies enough damage to kill a monster, that monster dies and is no longer a threat. With a daggermancer, you can only attack one monster at a time, and each monster will still be attacking you for 12-15 seconds after you have applied the poison, then if it takes more than one hit to kill it, you need to reapply the poison, and wait another 12-15 seconds.

So in conclusion, low life, low def, slow kill speed, no AoE melee skills, means bad, bad, bad, melee character. If you want to do poison, your best bet would be a nova mancer, they do more damage per second, and can apply poison to multiple monsters. The other advantage that a nova mancer has is that it allows you to stack up on -%enemy poison resist items which greatly increases your kill speed.

Luckily a dagger-mancer and nova-mancer use the same skills and synergies, so they really are the same build. You just need to swap out your melee items for some caster items, get some -%enemy poison resist items, and you are now a nova-mancer.


I feel like you killed me :O
Thanks for the help, man, good explanation. It's my seconth necro so i was kinda shocked and impressed that he could do 6k dmg at lvl 40. But, yeah, it takes time. And well, I'm reliefed that i just need to change EQ to use Nova.

[okiimatsu]

i have a lvl 87 poison/summon hybrid and find that i like to use a good poison dagger attack against the big bosses. once i have them surrounded with my minions and they are virtually petrified with decrepify, i'll run up and jab them in the back then get the hell away from them. of course you could spam nova every two seconds, but this is more fun. to me this is a little more streamlined as I only have to do this once every twelve seconds to keep them green as they cannot heal while poisoned. and if you have a good dagger, great, you'll get the extra damage included in the hit. saves your mana too.
Though poison nova is my main attack, this and even poison explosion can be utilized sometimes more effectively than corpse explosion in the right situation, especially taking out crowded mobs blocking a doorway.

[Sixstringer]

The other bad news is that poison takes time to kill. So unlike lets say a pally, when he zeals away, as soon as he applies enough damage to kill a monster, that monster dies and is no longer a threat. With a daggermancer, you can only attack one monster at a time, and each monster will still be attacking you for 12-15 seconds after you have applied the poison, then if it takes more than one hit to kill it, you need to reapply the poison, and wait another 12-15 seconds.

You're forgetting, though, that a necro has sooooooo many ways to help manage crowds, the greatest being Dim Vision. No whitename is EVER a threat with judicious use of DV. Add in Gumby against bosses and uniques and a skilled daggermancer is in melee range for only long enough to strike and get out. Bosses are almost never an issue once your dagger skill is high enough, because you don't have to be near them but once ever 15 seconds or so. People often point to PD's duration as a drawback, but to me its a benefit when used properly. No need to spam nova after nova.

If you don't like DV, Gumby, Holy Freeze Merc and decrepify slow baddies to a crawl. Or attract or confuse to have the monsters bang on each other while you sneak in and backstab 'em. Or have an army of skellies tie things up while you poke. Whichever suits ya.

And every PD nec has PN and PE maxed and at least one point in CE, so those skills are always available when the situation arises.

[NumtyDoo]

I am not forgetting the crowd control options, but confuse and dim vision stop working when you get into melee range, so the baddies that you try to stab will attack you.

Not saying that PD will not kill things, just that PN will do a much better job, PN is not only faster, it is safer. I do agree that PD is a good idea to do damage against bosses without constantly spamming nova.

I am all for hybrid and variant builds, but in my opinion, if I were going to make a build that maxed 3 skills, why would I choose to build my character around the weaker skill? I enjoy the challenge of playing my "odd" characters, I guess I just don't make them so odd that they are super slow even with good gear. But each to thier own, so I appologize if I discouraged the OP, just thought I'd offer him a faster build with the skill set he wanted.

[paul leung]

You're forgetting, though, that a necro has sooooooo many ways to help manage crowds, the greatest being Dim Vision. No whitename is EVER a threat with judicious use of DV. Add in Gumby against bosses and uniques and a skilled daggermancer is in melee range for only long enough to strike and get out. Bosses are almost never an issue once your dagger skill is high enough, because you don't have to be near them but once ever 15 seconds or so. People often point to PD's duration as a drawback, but to me its a benefit when used properly. No need to spam nova after nova.

If you don't like DV, Gumby, Holy Freeze Merc and decrepify slow baddies to a crawl. Or attract or confuse to have the monsters bang on each other while you sneak in and backstab 'em. Or have an army of skellies tie things up while you poke. Whichever suits ya.

And every PD nec has PN and PE maxed and at least one point in CE, so those skills are always available when the situation arises.

what u said remind me of pure magic bowzon(once when the introduce this),take almost a life time to clear 1 area.if u use pn and pe alot,then u not exactly a diggernecro,aren't u?(remember p can only apply once till it wear out).Again,against boss and moonlord etc,ie high defence,how many try you need to actually poke 1 monster due to low ar(unless u invest a lot in dex which will bring your life so low)
So imo,low life+low defence+low ar+p take time to kill +short range of digger=bad 'melee' build
necro is design as a summoner/caster,you just got to live with it.

[Sixstringer]

if u use pn and pe alot,then u not exactly a diggernecro

By your logic, you're not a real blizzard sorc if you use static field. My build is still geared toward dagger as the primary attack--high level Dim Vision, Clay Golem and HF merc for slowing, and of course, a dagger as the weapon instead of Dweb or another wand.

how many try you need to actually poke 1 monster due to low ar(unless u invest a lot in dex which will bring your life so low)


Well, you're of course entitled to an opinion, but anyone who's ever played a dagger nec knows that AR is not a problem, not ever. I invest enough into dex to max block, no more, and don't put a single point in energy. My life orb is OK.

So imo,low life+low defence+low ar+p take time to kill +short range of digger=bad 'melee' build necro is design as a summoner/caster,you just got to live with it.

It's not a melee build. It's a stealth build for players who like a little more strategy to play than nova spammers or summoners.

[Afflicted]

Think unique gameplay in single player; Dim Vision/confuse the whole mob of creatures, poke each of them once, move to the next area. Come back in a about 20 seconds to collect your winnings. With the right poison stacking, PD can reach crazy high poison damage. It can be surprisingly fun.

For example; The world starts to shake while you're shopping in Harrogath. "Ah, Baal must have fallen over dead already."

In multiplayer... don't bother. No one will appreciate your slow but humongous damage from poison.

[paul leung]

By your logic, you're not a real blizzard sorc if you use static field. My build is still geared toward dagger as the primary attack--high level Dim Vision, Clay Golem and HF merc for slowing, and of course, a dagger as the weapon instead of Dweb or another wand.



Well, you're of course entitled to an opinion, but anyone who's ever played a dagger nec knows that AR is not a problem, not ever. I invest enough into dex to max block, no more, and don't put a single point in energy. My life orb is OK.



It's not a melee build. It's a stealth build for players who like a little more strategy to play than nova spammers or summoners.
may be we play the game at a different point of view.If i play pvm,then I only aim to clear area with the highest speed possible.The way i see it,perhaps,if I ever interest of play the game with no-effective build,then I may gear my character with the lowest possible equiments,no skill spend and just use tactic play

[Sixstringer]

We certainly seem to play the game from a different point of view, which is one of the great things about this game--to each their own. If everyone was looking for killing speed, we'd pretty much all be hammderdins, no?

[NumtyDoo]

I too like playing with unique characters and hybrids, they are slower than my "super fishy", hammerdin, or meteorb sorc. But only slower to a limit, isn't there a line you cross somewhere that the build is sooo slow and ineficient, that you are almost wasting your time? I guess everyone has thier own idea of fun.

[paul leung]

hammerdin isn't the only char to kill fast:trapsin,bonenecro with ce,tele zealer(avoid some area)etc.

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I too like playing with unique characters and hybrids, they are slower than my "super fishy", hammerdin, or meteorb sorc. But only slower to a limit, isn't there a line you cross somewhere that the build is sooo slow and ineficient, that you are almost wasting your time? I guess everyone has thier own idea of fun.

well said,couldn't agree more