hammerdin shield question

[benedictarnold]

should i use HoZ and CoA or Spirit and CoA?

[Stevomoo]

if you can get a fcr helm and hit the higher fcr (not sure exactly but ita just over 100) then get spirit in a pala shield with resists otherwise hoz

[benedictarnold]

sorry but i guess what i really wanted to know is if i used HoZ is there any way i can still be able to hit the 125% fcr breakpoint, or is Spirit the only option?

[Gabrielle]

With HoZ, you can reach 125 fcr :smiley:

[benedictarnold]

what would be the required equipment to hit 125% fcr with HoZ?

[DarkStarHero]

what would be the required equipment to hit 125% fcr with HoZ?

Hoto : 35%
Magefist : 20%
2x rare ring : 2x10%
Arach : 20%
Amulet : 10%
Helmet : 20%

125% FCR

[AgentMarth]

Hoto : 35%
Magefist : 20%
2x rare ring : 2x10%
Arach : 20%
Amulet : 10%
Helmet : 20%

125% FCR

Hoto does not = 35 % And then he can't use CoA.


Anyways:

Ring x2 = 20
Arach = 20
Trang = 20
Amulet = 15+
Wizzy = 50

=125+

You could go Hoto, but then you would need to forgo the CoA for a FCR helm. Or, you could go Viper, and your FCR is much easier to get.

Personally, I prefer Spirit all the way. Otherwise you pretty much have to go Wizzy and 15% ammy if you wanna keep CoA and HoZ.

[SmittySixTen]

I'd say go with a Spirit. It'd be something like this-

HotO: 40
Spirit: 35
Arachnid: 20
Magefists: 20
FCR Ammy: 10+

I'd say roll the Spirit until it is 35, then get a pally ammy with at least 10 fcr. You'll be able to use SoJs (which will keep you from constantly chugging mana potions), so what you're really looking at losing is: Fire Res, Chance to Block, Faster Block Rate, 18 stat points.

What you gain from Spirit: 2 additional skill points to ALL skills, not just combat, 55 fhr, additional res in all but fire (as much as 30 extra if you use a 45 res shield).

Honestly, the only thing that would really have me second guessing this is the faster block rate. With Holy Shield you will not have a problem getting max block, regardless of what your base block is looking like. Yes, your life would be considerably higher with HoZ, but where are you going to make up that 55 FHR? If it's in charms then I'd make the argument that your life difference will not be that great at all.

[Copilot]

I'd say go with a Spirit. It'd be something like this-

HotO: 40
Spirit: 35
Arachnid: 20
Magefists: 20
FCR Ammy: 10+

I'd say roll the Spirit until it is 35, then get a pally ammy with at least 10 fcr. You'll be able to use SoJs (which will keep you from constantly chugging mana potions), so what you're really looking at losing is: Fire Res, Chance to Block, Faster Block Rate, 18 stat points.

What you gain from Spirit: 2 additional skill points to ALL skills, not just combat, 55 fhr, additional res in all but fire (as much as 30 extra if you use a 45 res shield).

Honestly, the only thing that would really have me second guessing this is the faster block rate. With Holy Shield you will not have a problem getting max block, regardless of what your base block is looking like. Yes, your life would be considerably higher with HoZ, but where are you going to make up that 55 FHR? If it's in charms then I'd make the argument that your life difference will not be that great at all.

Or you could just use insight on your merc...

[UberB]

I agree that Spirit would be the best hammerdin shield. Sure you lose two skills from hoz and some resists, an extra skill from a 10 FCR ring, but you gain the 125 FCR breakpoint which more than makes it superior. Add in a huge 55% FHR which easily allows you to get to the 86 breakpoint, good life and mana bonuses and the winner is clear. Plus I can get 10k hammers with 125 FCR with no anni, no pcombats and no Enigma (vipermagi). Also unless you have a good rare or craft that gives you +2 pally, 10 FCR and Mara's-like resists (I don't even think if it's possible or not) then stick with a 10 FCR ring. Even then I'd probably stick with Mara's. You only sacrifice a skill, as opposed to a good deal of resistances, helpful +5 to all stats and not to mention your BO will suffer.

Oh and BTW if you use an armor that doesn't give FCR (Enigma, Coh, etc) then you will need a perfect 35% FCR spirit. Otherwise be prepared to sacrifice both your rings for the 125 FCR breakpoint. Be sure you make your spirit in a sacred targe for the highest blocking percentage.

[SmittySixTen]

Or you could just use insight on your merc...

If he's dueling he will never stop getting complaints about that. ;)

But yes, if he's PvM then sure, use the insight. However, I don't really know why any PvM Hdin would bother using a CoA instead of a Shako.......... Besides, I don't use SoJs on my PvM pally and I never bothered with a merc. Pallies have Med and Redemption as skills, and mercs die in Chaos too often. Though, like I said, I highly doubt we're talking about PvM.

EDIT: UberB, that's not true. The FCR on the ammy and spirit are pretty easily tossed around. As long as they equal 45 FCR together (meaning the Spirit shield and the Ammy) he will reach his 125 breakpoint without even touching his ring slots.

[SicHalo]

hoz setup can be done with wizzy or suicide branch as;

wizzy=50% fcr
trangs=20%
arch=20%
2x 10fcr rings=20% fcr
2 pala/5-10%fcr amu

but to be honest i think spirit is the much better option due to a max of 35% fcr lots of res still 2 skills and other adds like mana etc making it much easier allowing u to use hoto instead for more dmg.

[Forbiddian]

HoZ is pretty much strictly better in the hardcore environment. The damage from 75 HoZ dins is MUCH higher than the damage from 125 Spirit Dins, and their survivability is greater pretty much across the board.


Let's just compare the two shields directly.

+2 pally basically is the same as +2 skills. The only affected skill is mana consumption from teleport. Ignoring that, HoZ gives an unmatched +2 combat skills over Spirit. Damage-wise, your hammers will do 11-15% more damage.

HoZ gives you an extra 5000+ armor upped (remember also to count that you have a +2 to Holy Shield bonus). Eth upped, much more than that. If you can equip CoA, no reason not to up your HoZ.

HoZ saves you a ton of dexterity as well as the other stat points. Assuming that you have the ungodly 45 resist all Sacred Targe Spirit (a virtually impossible find that would be worth a small fortune on EHCL), you have 60% to block. Using 36% Holy Shield, you'll need 161 dex to hit max block at level 93. Using a HoZ with 36% Holy Shield, you'll need just 134 dex. That saves you 27 stat points, even more at higher levels, and much more with lower level Holy Shield.

If you have a worse (and more normal) spirit, like a Heraldic Shield (52 block), and you have 33 Holy Shield, you'll take 180 points to achieve max block at level 93. With a HoZ, it takes just 137. HoZ saves you a whopping 43 points.

It also grants 20 strength and 20 vit instead of 22 vit. It saves you between 45 and 61 stat points. 135 to 183 hitpoints.

HoZ also has one open socket, which is extremely important.




There's more to life than those stats, but think about simply not going for 125 fcr. 125 fcr = 11% faster cast. +2 Paladin Combat Skills = 11% more hammer damage (at level 35 hammers). 125 fcr lets you teleport faster as well, but damage-wise, there's no difference between 75 FCR with +2 pcomb and 125 fcr with no +pcomb. Not to mention that you'll somehow need an extra 15 FCR from extra sources to get to 125 with Spirit over 75 with HoZ.

[gorash]

HoZ is pretty much strictly better in the hardcore environment. The damage from 75 HoZ dins is MUCH higher than the damage from 125 Spirit Dins, and their survivability is greater pretty much across the board.


i'm quite tired now but i'll be quick about this.

125 > 75 anyday espically with using a spirit over a 75fcr hoz hammerdin.

it maybe true that 75fcr hoz users may have more def but when running around in games u dont need that much def anyhow.
125fcr = more hammers, faster time which means much more dmg then a 75 fcr hammerdin having a bit more dmg from hammers comming out at a much slower rate. 125 gives much more surviveablily then 75 imo.

[rquin]

I'd say go with a Spirit. It'd be something like this-

HotO: 40
Spirit: 35
Arachnid: 20
Magefists: 20
FCR Ammy: 10+

I'd say roll the Spirit until it is 35, then get a pally ammy with at least 10 fcr. You'll be able to use SoJs (which will keep you from constantly chugging mana potions), so what you're really looking at losing is: Fire Res, Chance to Block, Faster Block Rate, 18 stat points.

What you gain from Spirit: 2 additional skill points to ALL skills, not just combat, 55 fhr, additional res in all but fire (as much as 30 extra if you use a 45 res shield).

Honestly, the only thing that would really have me second guessing this is the faster block rate. With Holy Shield you will not have a problem getting max block, regardless of what your base block is looking like. Yes, your life would be considerably higher with HoZ, but where are you going to make up that 55 FHR? If it's in charms then I'd make the argument that your life difference will not be that great at all.

How do you make the spirit for pally?

[Copilot]

How do you make the spirit for pally?

You make it in a pally only shield that has +resists. And I don't mean a magical shield I mean a white shield with the automod of +resists

[Davio]

You have to take into account that not all hammers will hit all targets, so do you want more hammers or more damage per hammer?

Do you want 1 hammer that does 50k dmg or 10 hammers that do 5k dmg?

Using more hammers gives more leeway.