The Cold/Fire Bowazon v2.0beta

[MuffinMan]

If anyone can make up a better name, they are welcome :laugh:

First off, let me say that this is not a build guide; due to the fact that I don't have all the gear in the game other gear combos could work better for all I know. This is just me writing about a zon Im making, looking for feedback and new Ideas.

Some of you might have read my old thread http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=612736 where I was testing to see if a Cold/Fire build could be PvM viable, due to the fact that nearly no-one makes them :tongue:
Another thought behind it, was the idea of having a PvM bowa WITH torch without dropping games all the time (anyone who has a torch on a strafer on Bnet knows what I mean..)
This meant Multishot and Strafe was out of the question. You will still drop for spamming arrows in baalruns and so on, but not even close to the rate of multi or strafe. Besides I really really really hate strafelock..

There is another thing to keep in mind as we go down the elemental route, the elemental damage's chance to hit is not the same as the arrows, so we don't need a lot of dex to hit things with the splash damage. I remember reading about it somewhere but don't know where. Anyone?

Having maxxed Pierce or not is up to the player, but not needed in my opinion. With my current setups +skills brings it to 80% with only 1 hard point invested.


The Stats

Magic Arrow - 1
Fire Arrow - 20
Exploding Arrow - 20
Cold Arrow - 20
Ice Arrow - 1
Freezing Arrow - 20
Guided Arrow - 1 <-not needed in PvM, but can at least mess with bad PK'ers

1point in all passives, maxxing valk as we lvl on

Completely avoiding Immolation Arrow, as its timer makes it useless when you need to set monsters on fire before they kill you. It gives no synnergies, so not even a single point here.

Stats:

Strenght: Enough for gear (i prefer having enough to be able to put the torch in stash, full games and torches just don't mix)
Dex: Never tried to go for enough-for-gear-only here, it might work maybe?
Life: The rest
Energy: None

The Gear Ideas

About gear, since its elemental based we need lots of one thing: skills!
-% to enemy resistance is a nice one as well

NOTE: You need an A2 merc with Insight. Without him, you will not have enough mana. And thats the bottom line.

Helm:
*Andys Visage - because its cheap and pretty awesome for this build. Socket it with a fire or cold facet, that -30 fire res can be handled elsewhere.
*Nightwing's Veil can be used (not tested), but it has no IAS. That mentioned; IAS is not as important here as with other bow builds as spamming will drain your mana pool dry quick.

Gloves:
Go for rares that got +skills/ias/resists, if you can find it.
NOTE: Someone may note the lack of Knockback on the build, but you need to keep the monsters together since you totally rely on splash damage. They move down fast anyway, and with the life/merc/valk/decoy you gonna have it will not be a problem at all. Besides the monsters are easier to hit when they get close :wink3:
+3Bowskill/20ias magic gloves works too.
I have neither and use Lava Gout gauntlets, a tad lower damage than with -+2bowskill/20ias magic gloves (but with some resist and enchant.)
Laying of Hands works, but only at the monsters hit by the arrow itself. So go for something else this time!

Armor:
*Enigma - The tele is a lifesaver for your minions without substitute. +2 all skills. The mad FRW makes herding monsters a walk in the park.
Not completely needed to be honest, used a +22allres un-upped vipermagi on the solo baalrun refered to in the thread linked to some inches up here.

Belt:
*Arachnid Mesh - +1allskills and fcr to help out with the zons turtle-tele.
*Razortail - The Pierce. If you dont have a lot of +skills, use this. As stated earlier, maxed Pierce is not cruical. But a high percentage is indeed!

Boots:
*Natalyas Boots - Decent resists, cheap, and most important fast (40%frw)
Im so happy with these, I have not tested others yet. Input on alternate boots?

Amu:
*Maras - +2allskills, resists, enhanced attributes
*Eye Of Ethlic - +1allskills and a really long cold duration added to Freezing Arrow
*Seraph's Hymn - +2allskills, bunch of ED to demons/undead and stuff. With lots of dex, LOH gloves and this, you could balance in good physical damage as well.

Rings:
*BK and Ravenfrost. (or Soj instead of BK)

Weapon:

There are really many options here since we mainly get our damage from skills and other equipment that adds to the splash damage.
But a few ideal bows spring to mind:
*Faith +2/3, other stats are not that vital. Skills > Aura/damage this time.
I use a GMB, tested for a while with a MB but I ran out of mana soO0 fast due to the firing speed. So the GMB seems more right to me, even though a MB actually kills faster (mainly the elements thats doing damage here). If you have a lot of insane mana charms, go for the MB.
*Ice, preferably in a GMB for the same reason as the Faith. +25-30% To Cold Skill Damage and -20% To Enemy Cold Resistance... drooling wildly :shocked: Dont have Ice, so haven't tried it.

Switch:
You will probably use the same bow for all monsters, so keep pre-buff items here if you have any. Recently added Cta and spirit myself, recommended!

My current setup:
Andys Visage, -4/5 cold facet
Faith GMB +2all/+3bowskills / Cta+Spirit prebuff
Maras amu
Enigma Mage Plate
Lava Gouts
BK + Ravenfrost
Arachnid mesh
Natalyas Boots
Torch 17/14
Anni 16/18/10
9 Bowskillers, with life/frw/strenght
Random sc's

Holy Freeze Merc (Insight/Tals helm/Dragon Armor)

Lvl47 Freezing/Exploding

Result:
http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/SuperThomas_jpg/Hellstats.jpg

comments/input welcome! Especially those who have any ideas on how to get more mana......

[MrOzio]

Interesting build to be sure. Might I suggest a change in helm?

Try a Giant Skull with 2x 5/5 Cold Facets. That way you get some knock back, also the boost in STR doesn't hurt!

[BlushNine]

How do the Exploding Arrows fair in Hell?

The few times I have tried Exploding Arrows I've found them lacking in damage. But those few times I tried I didn't load top gear for it either.

Granted there's alot of problems with Immolation Arrow, but if you use it in conjunction with your Freezing arrows or Exploding arrows it sucks a little less. With a casting delay, it gives you time to fire other arrows in between shots, and it does do considerable damage, especially if you already have the other burning skills as synergies. I used to have a build similar to this. The timing on the switch between Freezing Arrows and Immolation is a little tricky to master but it kills insanely quick in 8player games. You will want to bind left button on Immolation since its easier to left click on things already frozen with the right button. Alas, it has very limited uses. Bosses, Cows, narrow corridors like Maggot Lair and Sanctuary. So I really don't know myself if its worth the points. 1player games, its not worth it, things die from FA quick enough.

If you don't go with dex, then I recommend some form of AR to improve your physical hit rate. This is what I did with my Ice build. It helps with mana efficiency, the one problem this type of build has.

Lava Gout doesn't doesn't give you much at level-10, infact its almost negligible. You may want to try Demon Limb instead.

You'll find alot of Zon players shy away from Spirit because it requires so much strength. You may want to list a +1 shield like Sigon's or Lidless in addition if you recommend CTA.

[MuffinMan]

Thanks for taking the time to read, that was a lot really...

MrOzio: I dont need or want the knockback (though I would never make a strafer/multizon without it), and to be honest I love my life leech and skills to much. But definatly a option, it all comes down to playing style.

BlushNine: Thanks for suggestions!
The exploding arrows work surprisingly well! Now I just use her for the Pits, and she takes everything down in notime. Solo'ed the game with these stats that are far from what they are now http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/SuperThomas_jpg/Lvl85stats.jpg

But it really needs lvl40+ to shine, which limits the choices of gear. But at this level, the damage difference between FA and EA is not that noticeable really, even tho the numbers favours FA. I dont miss Immo at all, I just spam EA instead. The explosions are much more deadly than the Immo pyres in my experience. And both fire and exploding arrow has to be maxxed, leaving little-to-none room for investing skills in Immo.
The lava gout stays on untill I find some rare ones with skills/ias decent fire resist.. At least the fire damage adds to the splash. Need some +3bowskill gloves to hit lvl50 Frozen/Exploding arrow, that would just be....cool

What is max mana on smallcharms btw?

Edit: And putting the dragon on myself, would this trigger CTC hydra on attack with ranged attacks? Not that Im going to, just wondering.

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

You have some really nice gear. :grin:

IIRC, you're right, you don't need AR for the splash damage, but if the main arrow doesn't hit, then it won't pierce.

The max mana on a SC is 17 I believe; and Hydra will trigger.

I had the same problem with mana, so I changed my amulet and ring (http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/2040/randomlb3.jpg) around and (this screenie is before BO... after BO I get quite a nice amount of life and mana) and I never had a problem spamming arrows again. After BO I can usually let loose around 40 FA or EA consecutively. No Insight merc either.

Of course, I'm only using M'avina's without an Anni or Torch, and only 5 Bow&XBow skillers, so my damage and AR is much much lower than yours. It's enough to run pits for me, so I'm happy. :smiley:

[stephan]

Regarding the Immo/FA combo mentioned earlier... I don't like it very much. You can only use it against monsters that are not FI and not CI. In Hell that is going to exclude a lot of monsters.

Budget bows that could be mentioned are Lycander's (+2 all/+2 bow) and Melody (in an amazon bow it can reach +6 bow).

[Mecrusja]

hmmm may i suggest hand of justice bow - seems everybody keeps forgetting this one-
I just LOVE it on my exploding/lighting hybrid
strafe once to blind everything and then burn everything up hehe

[MuffinMan]

omgwtfbbqpwned: Getting here has costed a lot indeed. My brother recently quit which left me with a bunch of items that I used/traded for this Bowa only.
And still room for twinking..

A melody bow would be very interresting to test out! It would cut the build cost drasticly. But it has knockback, which I would recomend dropping on this type of bowa (thats just my opinion)
Harmony on the other hand, have the funky Regenerate Mana 20% and +2 To Mana After Each Kill, and nice elemental damage that adds to splashes. But Missing IAS..

Thats a nice set of jewelry you got right there! Hmm guess I will have to teach myself the art of crafting soon.

stephan: As a bow for a Untwinked build it works for a while, was unsure if i should mention it. Thought it was too slow, but never got arround to put a shael in it for further testing. I made a Edge in a MB (+3bow) for fun, even this bow has no problems in doing the pits fast. And costed peanuts. Valk/Decoy/Merc +Thorns Aura = funky stuff.

Mecrusja: Good point indeed! I don't know why I failed to mention it. As with Ice, I have not tested this bow either (Im using my brothers old PvP Faith really..)
Have you tested it vs. Faith on killing speed? I would see myself missing AR maybe?
Please post your stats^ ^
Will the holy fire aura stack with Hoj + dragon armor? How cool would THAT be?

[Armor_Biff]

Will the holy fire aura stack with Hoj + dragon armor? How cool would THAT be?

Yes, they stack. And with a paladin you can even boost the damage with its synergy, resist fire aura. :thumbsup:

[Mecrusja]

aura's do stack-i used it with dragon armor before and spitted hydrae all around :)
i prefer Coh though:)
ehh HOJ has Ignore Target Defense so no AR needed (i use charged strike for big boys)
oh and i forgot to mention the freezes target mod
all in all it is a very playable character but not quite a killing monster as a faith machine though

[MuffinMan]

So Ignore Target Defense means only dex for bow is really needed?

By the way, found a way to help on the mana issue. Found a 32mana/29life LC which now sits where the tp's used to be...now I only carry 4 in the belt instead :laugh:

Tested with the dragon armor myself, and was not very impressed. Good fireworks, but that was really it. With a HOJ bow that could change I guess, but I will stick with Faith/Eni for now.

[Pif]

Hi,

Hey, nice 'not-a-guide'. I have a very similar one – same skill point allocation etc. and I have some of the same issues as you but I'm levelling another char so can't experiment much atm. Howzabout Thermazon for a name? I was planning to rely heavily on an act 2 Merc with insight and rather than pumping health (I'm not planning to do any PvP) I'm building up dex which makes leeching easier. Items I'm planning to use (I have all except the arachnid) are show below but this is all theory as she’s currently too low level for all of the equipment. Frostburns may be a bad idea and like you I’m torn between Razortail (default zon belt) and an arachnid:

Weapon - Faith Matri (+3 bow; +2 zon) + Ice Bows (+3 bow; +20% IAS)
Armour - Chains of Honor AP (+2 levels; +65 res etc.)
Helm - Andy Visage soc: +15% IAS jewel (+35% IAS; +2 skills)
Charms - Anni (+1 skill); Torch (+3 skills); 3+ bow skillers (+3 bow)
Boots - Nat’s/Gores/Rare
Gloves - Frostburns??
Belt - Razortail /Arachnid? (+1 skills)
Rings - Ravenfrost, SoJ (+1 skills)
Amulet - Higlord’s (+1 skill; +20% IAS)

Dragon armour and HoJ Bows sound good but I've tried this before on an immozon (she was built ages ago before they nerfed immolating arrow) and it didn't seem to work every well. Still, CoH is a great armour.

With the above items I think the not-a-build is complete at level 88 with level 5 Valk becoming level 17 (1 less if you go for arach rather than razortail).

Good luck!

Cheers

Pif

[MuffinMan]

What does Therma actually mean? Not bashing on it or anything cause it sounds cool, but my english only goes that far.. (Thinking about Thermite, but that only represents 50% of the build. Kinda)
I used Frostburns myself, and the mana boost is just great. But Im All-Damage, so I rather drink a blue every now and then. No biggie tho, with over 450mana and Insight merc I rarely run out.

As for Valk, she is now at lvl22 with my current setup. 2mm of xp an she will be 23 :laugh:
The next goal is lvl50EA/FA, after that I don't know whats next. Maybe higher resists..
Btw: do you play on EuSc? Would be fun to compare dex with life in real action, I could always help with some lvling for a fellow zon :thumbsup:

[Pif]

Hi,

Thermal pertains to temperature or heat - I was trying to find something that encompassed both hot and cold that sounded OK. Tempazon sounds like she's only temporary so that didn't work :grin:. You're right though, thermal is really more of a heat term. If I think of something better I'll let you know!

I think I missed the bit about you using an insight merc - it's the main thing that allows this buid to be something other than a mageazon.

Most of my wealth is Non-ladder (including all of the ladder-only stuff I might need like Phoenix bows etc.) so I tend to play NL. Sorry!

Carry on with the great work!

Cheers

Pif

P.S. Keeping with the temperature theme, Kelvin-zon doesn't work either as it sounds like she's advertising underpants :laugh:

[MuffinMan]

If i had the time I would make a new one and call her ToastaFrigerator :grin:

Failed to point out my mercs gear clearly in my first post, its just written very briefly at the bottom.

To make it clear:

The Insight merc is a must-have on this type of bowa. Should there be another way, let me know :tongue:

[SnickerSnack]

Kelvizon
Fahrezon
Fahrenzon
Thermodymanizon

Really, thermal relates to cold just as much as it does to heat. Saying that something is cold implies a point of reference.....just like saying that something is hot.

[Jcakes]

I would name mine Jakiro.
I do believe however that this Archetype already has the name Magezon. Though I like HEXaZon.

[Pif]

Yeah, mageazon is probably good enough tbh. The original mageazon build was pre-INSIGHT, wasn't very item/RW dependent and generally relied on a large mana pool (although you could generally get by on leeching for an alternative build).

So this build is probably the most viable for a 1.11 Mageazon.

The Mageazon is dead... Long live the Mageazon!

(no doubt somebody will build an old-school mageazon just for the hell of it...)

Cheers

Pif

[yuli]

I'm doing this build idea now just for fun. I’ll be honest I have very low expectations for this build but I’m bored so I’ll give it a go. The focus for my build will be on ice and pure PVM play!

Skill layout as suggested no questions.

Stats distribution. I would go as low strength as possible, no points in energy, no points in vitality. All the remaining in dexterity. I believe dexterity is not only for chance to hit but also for pumping up base arrow damage. Why would I want health? I’ll probably have bad resists anyway and I want to drop them long before they get close. My shield is my merc and vlak.
Gear:
Base weapon “ICE”. I have this bow along time now never saw any use for it until now.

All the other gear slots I have to think/analyze it further.
The main question for my merc on my mind. Why would I go for a insight (mediation) merc over a infinity (conviction) merc? I don’t think mana leech will be a problem again my focus is always on killing speed.

[yuli]

Looking at boots now what about GR or Silkweave?

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Well, if you're just after maximal damage, which I assume due to your previous post, you'll take the GR, since Silkweave is used for mana support.

Infinity gives you way better damage, but don't forget that this build is highly mana draining. That's why suggestions like "Insight" and Silkweave are offered. If you think you won't have any issues with mana, feel free to ditch the mana boosters/mana regeners and go for more damage.

[yuli]

I'll try a few combinations it all depends how big the mana issue will be:

andy's (35 ias)
highlords || cresent moon
soj || raven || manald || raven || soj
raven || manald || soj || raven || soj
ice
soul drainers || laying of hands
arachnid || razortail || nosferatu's
coh
gr || silkweave
cta on switch

anni
torch
bow skillers and mana GC

infinity merc

[NASE]

You don't really need conviction merc because:
a) it won't break immunities anyway. Not for fire and for cold.
b) your damage with freezing arrow, ice and other high end equipment will be high enough for non-cold immune monsters.
c) You won't be leech that much and maek doesn't work that good in high populated game - unless you really have good killing speed. Ice isn't high on damage and you can't fill your inventory with max damage charms. So meditation comes in handy with mana hungry skills like freezing arrow.

[raishi]

for glove try mavina's +20% cold damage...and 137-250 cold damage along with some nice stats...also leaves the option to use the helm of the set for some IAS and +1 skills...

[NASE]

Mav's only gives those bonuses with 4 or more items of the set. Thus, you can only use those mods if you go for full mav's.
Don't think it'll shine in a builds like this.

[MuffinMan]

Even a 1,5K FA will do nicely in hell vs. non immunes. But about the same ammount of fire damage is needed against cold(and physical) immunes.

With lvl37 FA/EA and Edge Edge Bow, she has no trouble running the council as long as I keep my valk and decoy out. At this level, EA is arround 1,5k average and FA is about 2,3K

[droid]

If anyone can make up a better name, they are welcome :laugh:

hmm...fire and ice? like Iceland? how about Vikingzon? that makes about as much sense as some of the other build names I've seen :)

[Dacar92]

hmm...fire and ice? like Iceland? how about Vikingzon? that makes about as much sense as some of the other build names I've seen :)

Vikingzon. Hmmmm. I kind of like it. She'd have to wear Valkyrie Wing or Nightwing's Veil to really wear the part. Horns and all that.

[MuffinMan]

Not sure about the helm anymore.. It's currently been replaced with a boring Shako

Currently in the process of rebuilding her like this:
Strenght: none (well, I put in 4 to get by on the lower levels)
Dex: Enough for 187 with all gear and torch/anni
Life: None
Mana: ALL THE REST!!! (Yes, I have stopped taking my pills)

Tearing my way through act2 Hell at lvl75 at the moment with a A1 Harmony merc, using a CtA MB myself. This seems like a much more correct way to use the fire/cold combo, and you are not forced to use Insight A2 merc - A pot every now and then is required, but more like on a typical Strafer/Multizon than on the raging manaholic she actually is.

This also completely removes the need for a Faith GMB and Spirit shield, making it much cheaper to build than the "all-life" approach. And just as effective, if you don't use Teleport much.
With BO @ Lvl 75
Life: 1,1k
Mana: 1,2k

Currently use a manald, soj, civerbs amu and shako for mana purposes - just tossed whatever I had on her and it works great already. Twinking will be done later of course.

Will do a full feedback when Im done lvling and testing equipment/mercs, but by the way things look so far I would say...

The Magezon lives again in 1.12!

[eLeM3NTz3CP]

Anyone ever tried Bow GC's ?? Wonder how well that would work....

Maybe I overlooked something...where is your IAS ?? Other then gloves/helm doesn't seem like you've got much if any...

Anyone mention 15/15 Ormus ?

[MuffinMan]

Anyone ever tried Bow GC's ?? Wonder how well that would work....

Maybe I overlooked something...where is your IAS ?? Other then gloves/helm doesn't seem like you've got much if any...

Anyone mention 15/15 Ormus ?

More IAS on the all-life build was simply to draining on the mana pool..

If you read the post over yours, you'll see that I don't get any IAS from the helm either:

The CTA MB got 40ias, lava gouts got 20. Since a base matriarchal bow has a nice -10 weapon speed modifier, Im currently shooting at 9frames and it works very well. (actually 15%ias more than needed) 8 frames will be tested soon :thumbup:

Breakpoints for single arrows on -10 WSM bows (thanks to Kijya for the usefull tables!)

Frames - Ias needed
15 - 0
14 - 0
13 - 0
12 - 0
11 - 10
10 - 25
9 - 45
8 - 75
7 - 145


Im running a full set of skillers, it seems to be the most effective setup. No small charms at the moment, with time I want to fill her up with 10 +17mana sc's. (no tome of tp's, keeping those things in the 4th belt slot)
Edit: she still got anni and torch ofc....

[Ghoulz]

My setup seems to be working fine.

Shako(um'd)
Coh
Maras
R-Frost
Soj
Faith GM(1/3, sadly)
+3 bow gloves
Nosferatuos(not lvl 80 yet for Arach)
War Travs(adds almost 200 more phy dmg)

2100 life with BO(thats better than my jabbazon)
800 mana with BO(I think..)
75/74/74/74 res
11000 AR
LvL 44 F/E Arrow

Still need 1-2 more skill gcs. She works great, until her merc dies and my mana tie is severed. Can pump alot more into Vit, and can take a way better beating than my typical bow zon I have. She seems to wipe out mobs in chaos faster too it seems, but still is just as terrible for bosses.

[Thirteenth]

from what element do you reckon the most damage comes from?

just thinking about what equipment i should put on and what jewels i'd need

id guess fire is a good investment since it is more likely to get broken by infinity rather than cold

[MuffinMan]

You get higher cold than fire damage with the same amount of points used.
Im at 2,8k average FA and 2k EA with both maxed out and a bunch of +skill items.
Never had the need for a infinity merc for her :jig: