Extra skill point for WW

[DeathMaster]

What is the best way to spend "extra" points for fury wolf, for HC.

I'm currently having 10 points in WW, with 9 points saved. Because I have to take care of resistance first, there is no room for charm (can only have one more which will add around 600 total AR, if my calculation is correct). His AR is 7.6k, which is low end for hell, yet should be still manageable.

I have not many options with the skill points, so I ask the wisdom of this place.

1. My initial plan was max WW, raise the AR to average level, and then adding any extra point to grizzly (boost its damage a little). This will give a little extra damages to places I don't want to go myself.

2. My second plan was max WW, and then adding extra points to dire wolf. This will boost bear tankability (is it a word?), which is handy when recasting is not always easy.

3. I had another thought, if I leave WW at current level, which my own attack will surfer at a degree, and use the points for something else (eg. boost bear damage). It should be doable, but would it endanger survivability since my fury will be hitting less?

[neumein]

tankability? (is it a word?)

It is now!

Back on topic, I have found that unless you fully synergise grizzly, it's damage will never be that great, but it's a pretty good tank with 1pt +skills. As for the AR issue, maybe socketing your weapon with an Eth rune? Or perhaps investing in HoW could be the way to go. People say they die all the time in hell, but HoW becomes immune to Physical and Poison in Hell, so they do well against most monsters that take a swipe, unless they have an elemental enchantment. That brings up a good point, what about enchant? You can get it from Demon Limb, or Ctc from Lavagout. That should give a nice boost to AR.

/ramble

Hope that helps

[DeathMaster]

Back on topic, I have found that unless you fully synergise grizzly, it's damage will never be that great, but it's a pretty good tank with 1pt +skills. As for the AR issue, maybe socketing your weapon with an Eth rune? Or perhaps investing in HoW could be the way to go. People say they die all the time in hell, but HoW becomes immune to Physical and Poison in Hell, so they do well against most monsters that take a swipe, unless they have an elemental enchantment. That brings up a good point, what about enchant? You can get it from Demon Limb, or Ctc from Lavagout. That should give a nice boost to AR.

I think they became PI in NM not hell (at least from my own exp). If I go HoW, that will mean giving up OS. That will be a problem (if OS dies, I just recast it behind fighting line). HoW is more of SC kind of thing.

Enchant is out, socket is out too. I had to socket IK with IAS jewel and Hel to reach 5 frame fury and reduce its str requirement to acceptable level. Weapon switch (2x spirit) is used by casting and shifting.

About bear, am I missing anything? I always thought there is no syn for bear damage. points in dire wolf gives more life, in spirit wolf gives AR which is useless (I have never seen bear or merc has difficulty to hit).

[MukTuk]

I think they became PI in NM not hell (at least from my own exp).

Thats correct. It makes them fairly useful tanks in NM because of that, I used to cast Oak sage right into Lister's Pack to keep them busy for a while, and it lasted long enough to be a useful distraction.

Myself, I would boost grizzly's life rather than its damage. Especially with Oak Sage, it can become a fairly tough cookie to take down. Some advice I've heard for HC is to always err on the side of whatever skill helps you survive more. Boosting DW will do just that.

One other option may be to build up Feral Rage a little bit, for the extra life leech it gives you. Each point raises the max LL by 4%, which will turn out to be 1% per point in hell, but even just a LL boost of 5% total might make a noticable difference. Just an idea.

[stephan]

Enchant is out, socket is out too. I had to socket IK with IAS jewel and Hel to reach 5 frame fury and reduce its str requirement to acceptable level.
A maul with 55 IAS only reaches 6 frame Fury.

[DeathMaster]

I checked multiple times with weapon speed calculator, it requires 52% IAS to reach 5 frame (did you take account of WW?). Where did you get 6 frame? I thought the weapon speed calculator is trusted source. Is there any bug I don't know?

[stephan]

Ah, you are right. I forgot about the WW skill.

[DeathMaster]

You scared me, I know I usually on the "wrong" side of fence.

[San]

Weapon switch (2x spirit) is used by casting and shifting.

Just thought I'd mention another possible buff-weapon:

Fleshrender
Barbed Club
One-Hand Damage: 71 to 120
Durability: 56 of 56
Required Strength: 30
Required Level: 38
Mace Class - Normal Attack Speed
Item Version: 1.10+ Expansion
Item Level: 75
Fingerprint: 0x2a895054
+182% Enhanced Damage
+35 to Minimum Damage
+50 to Maximum Damage
+20 Maximum Durability
+1 to Druid Skill Levels
Prevent Monster Heal
150% Damage to Undead
25% Chance of Open Wounds
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
20% Deadly Strike
+2 to Shape-Shifting Skills (Druid Only)

+3 to SS skills, but +1 to summoning. I personally prefer this one instead of a Spirit/Dark Clan Crusher, with their +2 skills. Makes your char slightly more durable, at the expense of Grizzly/Oak Sage/HoW/Vine slvls.

[DeathMaster]

fleshrender is a good weapon (my first fury wolf main weapon). However, I need more +all skills for my current build. The reason is I need stronger summoning tree. Currently I cast at +9 to all skills, +2 to shifting. The slight increase duration doesn't get much use (already stay in wolf form for 11mins), while stronger OS, bear are better for the long run. The only better weapon for switch is HoTO.

Also, I use spirit sword for fury OKs, either spirit and HoTO are safe weapon around OKs. This weapon will not kill you under IM.

Spirit
Crystal Sword
One-Hand Damage: 5 to 15
+22 to Vitality
+108 to Mana
+250 Defense vs. Missile
Adds 1-50 lightning damage
Adds 3-14 cold damage over 3 seconds
+75 poison damage over 5 seconds
7% Life stolen per hit
55% Faster Hit Recovery
32% Faster Cast Rate
+2 to All Skill Levels
+3 Magic Absorb

[muzzz]

Enchant is out, socket is out too. I had to socket IK with IAS jewel and Hel to reach 5 frame fury and reduce its str requirement to acceptable level. Weapon switch (2x spirit) is used by casting and shifting.

I always keep my demon limb in the cube, since the enchant last for ~10 minutes anyway.

Regarding your original question, I'd say it largely depends on playstyle and build plans. Personally, I'm a big fan of dependable characters. So if I make a fury wolf, I emphasise AR and life (the latter to avoid hit recovery and subsequent whiffing). For the same reasons, I sometimes prefer to have no summons, or weak ones, as it can be easier to herd monsters without them. This even goes for sage, by the way. IMO, counting on the spirit bonus during tough fights is risky at best. If push comes to shove, I'd rather lose 50% damage than 50% max life.

But I'm sure the other way would work just as well, for people with a different playstyle. From what I've read, you fit that bill :smiley:. If you really want the help of a summon, I'd boost it's life first. Whether or not to boost WW depends on how you want to use the summon. If you want it to distract a few monsters will you deal with the larger pack, max WW first. If you want it to take the brunt of the attack while you pick them off from the sides, go boost the summon.

[DeathMaster]

IMO, counting on the spirit bonus during tough fights is risky at best. If push comes to shove, I'd rather lose 50% damage than 50% max life.

But I'm sure the other way would work just as well, for people with a different playstyle. From what I've read, you fit that bill :smiley:.

No one in his/her right mind will totally relay on OS. However, it is still largely useful. I play with 2k life in mind not 4k. The argument also goes the other way around. It is true if HoW dies, you only lose half the damage/AR. However, you are suddenly not hit anything, without your usual high damages, and you don't have as much life to start with. If your OS dies, you reverse back to "normal" life, but still keep hitting things, and doing the same damage. It is arguable, that it is more manageable to lose OS than HoW.

Anyway, it is always a mix of both. Sometimes, I only need bear/merc to keep the mob busy, while I do the "mass killing" from different side. Sometimes, I need they do the hard killing, while I play the support role to keep the mob busy.