PVP Martel

[sspaul]

Hello

I have 2 martels and was wondering which is best for PVP i have a 242 max dmg mart with 145% ed and a bonesnap 172 max dmg with 300% ed

Thanks

[zioth]

Bonesnap has a 40% chance of doing double damage (crushing blow). So to compare Bonesnap to another maul, multiply its damage by 1.4 to get the real average damage. Also, minimum damage is important.

So a 300% bonesnap does 120-172. Multiply by 1.4 to get 168-241, which is 204 average damage. If your other mart does less, you should stick with Bonesnap.

Don't forget to factor in Life Steal. If your other mart has 5% life steal, add 5% to the damage.

Also, the cold resist on bonesnap is handy in pvp. So if the two mauls are really close in damage, I'd stick with Bonesnap.

[struikje]

Oh nooo zioth :D.
crushing blow != deadly/critical strike.
Deadly/critical strike does double the dmg, yet crushing blow takes away 1/8th of the person's full life. Also I'm not sure that you got the principle of life leech. It doesn't add any dmg, but it works like this:
if you do 100 dmg, and you have 10% ll, you'll still do 100 dmg, but you'll gain 10% * 100 dmg = 10 life. That 10 life is added to your life, if it isn't max yet that is.

On choosing your weapon, can you post the full stats of the martel? like if there is any res, -req, min dmg, ...
I havent made a decent pvp twohander in a long time, yet I'd use the bonesnap for the extra res and cb. Don't expect to do much dmg to other barbs. My advice is to mf for a better martel, ... other weapon maybe.

Edit: O right forgot to add: leech(leach, sorry for spelling) only works in pvm, not in pvp.
And the reason with leach is, that if you do high dmg, and have 10% ll/ml , you don't have to use potions, and it is harder to get killed

Struikje

[zioth]

Ah. Well, 1/8 of the person's life is pretty good too. :)

I thought Life Leach added to your damage, and leached that. So if you do 100 damage with 10% leach, you [i]also[i] do 10 more damage, which adds to your life.

If that's not the way it works, then why do people bother trying to get their leach so high?

[WarlockCC]

If I'm not mistaken it's 1/8th of a target's current life, if that target happens to be a champion monster.

CB on a melee attack on a normal monster takes 1/4th of the current life of that monster.
The same on a Champion takes 1/8th.
And on a Unique/player is 1/16th

Ranged I think the attacks do half that.
But allways of their current life, just like static.

The CB is a bonus which is added on top of the normal damage you do with a attack.

In theory, if you only do CB damage, you won't be able to kill a target, just like with static.

[sumzy]

hmmm warlock i heard somewhere that if your normal damage on a successful attack is higher than the damage for cb it hits that instead of cb =\

I'm making a bvb coz i got 10 fhr 100 ed 4 dex war boots and dont want to use g toes, but crushing blow is too good =\

[WarlockCC]

On my balista strafer, I use gobs and they work all the way down to the last sliver of life afaik.
Perhaps RTB or Orphan will drop by and solve this mystery. :)

[sspaul]

Oh nooo zioth :D.
crushing blow != deadly/critical strike.
Deadly/critical strike does double the dmg, yet crushing blow takes away 1/8th of the person's full life. Also I'm not sure that you got the principle of life leech. It doesn't add any dmg, but it works like this:
if you do 100 dmg, and you have 10% ll, you'll still do 100 dmg, but you'll gain 10% * 100 dmg = 10 life. That 10 life is added to your life, if it isn't max yet that is.

On choosing your weapon, can you post the full stats of the martel? like if there is any res, -req, min dmg, ...
I havent made a decent pvp twohander in a long time, yet I'd use the bonesnap for the extra res and cb. Don't expect to do much dmg to other barbs. My advice is to mf for a better martel, ... other weapon maybe.

Edit: O right forgot to add: leech(leach, sorry for spelling) only works in pvm, not in pvp.
And the reason with leach is, that if you do high dmg, and have 10% ll/ml , you don't have to use potions, and it is harder to get killed

Struikje


this is the mart http://img176.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshot001wx0.jpg

and does ED make any diffrence in PVP

[zioth]

That's a nice mart. Average damage of almost 200. The +9 strength brings that up to about 214. Plus a little cold damage to slow down the enemy.

So now you just have to decide between 214 damage (or whatever that is with your primary skill and strength score taken into account), and the 146 average damage of bonesnap with the resists and crushing blow.

If your target has 500 life, Crushing Blow adds a maximum of 31 damage (12.5 damage, given the 40% chance), and that goes down with every hit. If your target is a BO barb with 3000 life, that's 187 damage (75) average.

Now, just for fun, let's say you're using a level 24 whirlwind (134% damage bonus) and you have 200 strength (200% damage bonus?) I think whirlwind is applied after the strength bonus, making your total 2.34 * 3 = 7.02 times your base damage.

Your mart does 214 * 7.02 = 1502. Bonesnap does 146 * 7.02 = 1025.

I'm sure I've done something wrong here, but it looks to me like the extra 75 damage from Crushing Blow isn't even close to the extra 500 damage from the mart. So bonesnap is only better when you need the resists (like against an orb sorc).

[Monzee]

I would never use bonesnap on a bvb. If you want the CB use goblin toes instead as they are used by almost all bvbs anyway. Should you still dislike gobs use rattlecage. In my book one would be better off staying away from dueling if they must absolutely use bonesnap and the reason is this:
1) You will encounter a bvb using shield (grim/pavise) and get crushed.
2) You will encounter a bvb using a martel (most likely 260dmg+) and get crushed as he will also have cb from gobs and probably better gear in general.

However, Bsnap is excellent for pvm :thumbsup:

[Creon]

A good BvB will have ~4k health post-BO. It can go higher if the player is well geared specifically for BvB and/or level 85+. Against such a barb, CB doing 1/10th remaining damage will do at most 400 damage at a +40% chance, or 160 damage for your first hit average. This is the optimal condition. It's down hill from there.

A 196.5 average Martel with 170 STR, level 21 WW, and level 21 Mace Mastery will do 196.5 * (1+1.7+1.1+1.28) = 998.22 damage on average.

A 146 average damage Bsnap (perfect) with 170 STR, level 21 WW, and level 21 Mace Mastery will do 146 * (1+1.7+1.1+1.28) = 741.68 damage on average, or 256.54 less than the Martel. It also does not have +AR.

These numbers are all before the PvP damage penalty of 1/6 (assuming the battle.net website is still accurate).

For BvAll, a 220+ Martel is almost always better than a Bsnap and your best all around option, also allowing you to switch to BH/Shield against a good BvB. I would never, ever use a 2-hander for pure BvB unless I was going to try to clip the enemy at range with say, a speed Lancer for fun. Those are some of my favorite duels.

[goomba]

if I recall correctly in a previous patch leach worked against other players pvp.

hence all of the pskull socketed duped pvp weapons from 1.09? w/e that particular high damage 25 durability lance was is almost always a pskull fgoad or something?

been forever since I was on NL so can't recall exactly.

picking between the two, I'd use the mart over the bsnap now that you evidently have the stats to use it.

starting out, and/or early leveling before tossing all the pts into str, bsnap makes an excellent choice. it can also work fine for a pvm barb that is more typically a 'popper' and has low str, but a lack of cs runs to pop in, and ya feel like idly spending time flayering for example

[zioth]

Thanks for the more accurate math, Creon. I didn't even remember to factor in mastery. :)

[folo]

if I recall correctly in a previous patch leach worked against other players pvp.

Correct. Leech was even calculated before PvP penalty (25% in 1.09) which meant that with only 25% leech (1.09) you leeched back the same amount of damage dealt to your opponent.

[sspaul]

Tnanks 4 all the input guys i stick with the mart

[yohed]

PvP mart:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff217/yohed55/gsong.jpg


:grin:

[Orphan]

I thought Life Leach added to your damage, and leached that. So if you do 100 damage with 10% leach, you [i]also[i] do 10 more damage, which adds to your life.

If that's not the way it works, then why do people bother trying to get their leach so high?

Life leech % isn't like Enhanced Damage %. It only leeches back that % of life to you based on your weapon damage. So if you have 10% life leech, and attack a monster for 200 damage, you'll get 20 life.

hmmm warlock i heard somewhere that if your normal damage on a successful attack is higher than the damage for cb it hits that instead of cb =\


If crushing blow successfully triggers then it'll be applied before weapon damage.

Edited out - Orphan

[struikje]

PvP mart:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff217/yohed55/gsong.jpg


:grin:

Waaaaa nice lvl requirement. Please tell me it is on a lld :D

Struikje

[Creon]

PvP mart:

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/ff217/yohed55/gsong.jpg


:grin:

Is that a non-ladder 1.06 Martel? 170% ED on a Martel should be 267 max damage. Ghoul Song is a familiar name for a Mart, too.

[Lorg]

Must be from 1.06. The ed and level req gives it away. So its not on ladder :smiley:

Nice one thought.

[Lorg]

Here's another marty which is nice for dueling or pking...

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/6672/screenshot016my6.jpg

[goomba]

this one was decent for a ladder season 3 mephy drop/find. http://www.ninefrozentoes.net/D2/Screenshot006.jpg

I think akukami still has it, and is in fact offering it on another forum.

[Lorg]

this one was decent for a ladder season 3 mephy drop/find. http://www.ninefrozentoes.net/D2/Screenshot006.jpg

I think akukami still has it, and is in fact offering it on another forum.

Would not use word deacent for that kicky piece of meat grinder. I know word godly is much overused, but thats the right word descriping the above mentioned Martel.

My marty is on this ladder (just traded it), but unfortunately on HC, since i dont play SC anymore. Atleast not atmo. Still it's usefull as a pk Martel or in the hands of a travislave. Just that for pvp i would sock it with Ame or sapphire and for travi purposis it would be nice with PS/ame on it. So maybe i go for Ame :undecided: