CoH best in Archon Plate?

[jcldude]

I see a lot of people buy Mage Plates and Dusk Shrouds for their runewords and wonder a bit why not choose an Archon Plate that has the highest defense while still being a light armor.

Is it the Str requirement of 103 that is the problem? I thought most sorcs went for a build that involved spirit monarch being used now and then too, so str really shouldnt be the problem here.

I probably want to get a Superior Archon Plate with 500+ def and 10%+ enh def for my Chains of Honor... after all there is a high rune there being used and I want this one to last! :)

[LarryFine]

My bet: COH is level 63 due to BER rune. Those folks are rich enough to want that at level 63. They can't use stats from anni until Level 70 and torch until level 75 to get the extra STR without spending the points. They make in MP or DS first then trade it when ready to make in AP.

[ProfessionalBerg]

I made my first COH AP yesterday... and kinda regret it. It costs a frikkin 15k per durability point to repair. Of course, the cause is the +durability, but still - my assassin will soon run out of gold to repair it.

That may be part of the reason.

[jcldude]

But a couple of rare rings with +str isnt hard to get and would fix any temporary str problem imo.

And about the repair bill, isnt this because CoH is expensive armor by itself? I guess which kind of armor you socket it in doesnt make such a big difference on the repair bill? Anyway, as you can frequenly pick up and sell stuff for 35k at vendor, getting the gold for repairs cant be that hard... at least I often pick up and vendor stuff... and then gamble it all away on rings. :laugh:

[ProfessionalBerg]

I have concluded that this runeword may be best on either ranged/caster characters, or characters who rely heavily on Goldfind.

Alternatively, Rals, but that would mean that for every 20 repairs, you waste an additional Pul. Or 20 crafts.

[KremBanan]

One reason is also that a 15ed Archon Plate has high resale value, alongside 15ed Dusk.

[Maarek]

... They make in MP or DS first then trade it when ready to make in AP.

Or not, since a MP only can have a maximum of 3 sockets.

Also, sorceresses that are aiming to use Spirit will most likely pick Enigma over CoH 90% of the time.

To get back on-topic, I would pick Dusk over AP. Style and less str investment.

[jcldude]

Yeah, I have been wondering about that, the main reason for using CoH seems to be resists + its a bit cheaper than Enigma. Otherwise Enigma seems to be a better choice actually with nice mf, str, life and dmg to mana. But the missing resist will have to be worked on though. I guess HotO is a nice choice here (over Occu) with its +40 resists, and a very high Mara would help as well as high anni/torch.

Actually its rather interesting that with perfect resists on HotO, Enigma, Spirit (always 35 in all except fire), Mara, Anni, Torch you will have exactly maxed out all resists except fire! Easily fixed with 4x11fr charms (and waterwalk +5% fr is also covered). And the nice thing is that you dont need a perfect fcr on Spirit either to get above 105% fcr breakpoint with magefists and arachnid (actually you could get by with a spirit that has the worst fcr). One 5 fcr SC and you also have 60% breakpoint on hit recovery.

It only lacks a bit in mf this setup really, and that including a ptopazed shako and perfect gheeds. You actually need 15x7mf SC to get to 300 mf! Naturally, putting on some Wartravellers instead of Waterwalk would help out.

Hmm... I think you have converted me... :) I am saving up for an Enigma instead. :)

The only reason I am exploring this is because I want to build a max skill setup as well as the allround Tal rasha + SS setup that I normally use. Chances are that I wont get perfect anni/torch/mara for quite some time so would probably have to use a rare ring with +resist all to help out in that department (would be nice with extra fr and some mf).

[zallus]

Or not, since a MP only can have a maximum of 3 sockets.

Also, sorceresses that are aiming to use Spirit will most likely pick Enigma over CoH 90% of the time.

To get back on-topic, I would pick Dusk over AP. Style and less str investment.

Are you kidding? Most Sorcs wear Enigma over COH. Wow then me and everyone I have ever seen must be in that 10% part.

[chien]

I think the expensive repair cost is because you make it in sup armor. It should cost much less if it is made in non-sup armor.

Chien

[KremBanan]

Are you kidding? Most Sorcs wear Enigma over COH. Wow then me and everyone I have ever seen must be in that 10% part.

You can tele without Enigma?? :shocked:

[jcldude]

Are you kidding? Most Sorcs wear Enigma over COH. Wow then me and everyone I have ever seen must be in that 10% part.

Hmm, so there is a reason why the Meteorb spec recommend CoH over Enigma on the top list? But I also see that Sasja's spec is written pre-torch patch, so if the main reason here is the resists, you really dont need CoH for that if you got good resists on all the rest (mara, anni, torch).

However, CoH also has so much resists that you can optionally use a cheap Occu (socketed with something nice) instead of an expensive HotO. (HotO, CoH, mara, anni, torch, spirit = overkill on resists). Enigma sort of forces you to use a HotO for the missing resists (you you gotta get 4-5 SC's with res all). But I see you end up with even less mf than a occu/CoH setup. :undecided:

Edit: Dunno if you are joking or not KremBanan, but all sorcs can teleport if they just put a point in the skill. However, if you plan on always wearing Enigma as a sorc (and dont use Telekinesis either) you can put 2 skill points elsewhere in your spec.

[ProfessionalBerg]

jcldude, he was sarcastic :rolleyes:

Shows how many players prefer Enigma over other armors automatically, since they've used it for so long, and sometimes forget that the Sorceress has innate tELEPROTS skill. Not that this is the case here, just a little joke.

I'd still prefer COH over Enigma. True, Enigma provides better MF and strength, but COH provides 20 strength as well. Given that Strength required to wield an AP is 10x-something, and provided you use a torch and an anni, you're more or less set in the strength department regardless.

[jcldude]

I assumed he was joking yes. :) (Btw, KremBanan is a very tasty candy in Norway).

Lets compare CoH to Enigma:

Chains of Honor: Dol + Um + Ber + Ist - About 1.5 HR
+2 To All Skills (very useful)
+200% Damage To Demons (not useful, I assume this is melee damage?)
+100% Damage To Undead (not useful, I assume this is melee damage?)
8% Life Stolen Per Hit (useful)
+70% Enhanced Defense (useful)
+20 To Strength (useful - less str points needed for spirit/SS)
Replenish Life +7 (useful)
All Resistances +65 (very useful)
Damage Reduced By 8% (useful, with SS you are very close to 50% dr)
25% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (useful)

Enigma: Jah + Ith + Ber - 2 HRs
+2 To All Skills (very useful)
+45% Faster Run/Walk (useful, with light armor makes you pretty zippy)
+1 To Teleport (useful only if you plan on wearing Enigma all the time)
+750-775 Defense (varies) (useful and approx same as Sup Archon CoH)
+ (0.75 Per Character Level) +0-74 To Strength (Based On Character Level) (very nice, shaves off lots of points into str if you plan on using this all the time)
Increase Maximum Life 5% (useful)
Damage Reduced By 8% (useful, same as CoH)
+14 Life After Each Kill (very useful when grinding many mobs)
15% Damage Taken Goes To Mana (very useful if you dont have Insigth merc)
+ (1 Per Character Level) +1-99% Better Chance of Getting Magic Items (Based On Character Level) (many times better than CoH)

So for me it seems Enigma really has more useful stats than CoH for a mage if I am correct that the +damage% stats in the CoH only work for melee damage.

[ProfessionalBerg]

You are right, the +% damage only applies to melee attacks.

However, I have to disagree with 2 of the mods on Enigma being "very useful" - Life per kill and DTM - they are not as effective as you might think.

Also, Enigma made in an Archon plate gives much more defense than a COH - it's around 900-1000 for COH and all the way up to 1200-1300 for Enigma.

8% LL on COH is not useful for Sorceresses for obvious reasons...

I'd still choose COH, for it's cheapness and resists.

[jcldude]

Oops yes, 8% LL is obviously NOT useful, that was a mistake. And about the two mods, I would have thought life per kill would be nice when you plow through larger packs to top up whatever life you loose from ranged shooters? DTM is obviuously not useful if you are a "good mage" and keeps out of harm, but when I am wielding an SS I am often careless and stand in the packs myself - would have been nice to at least get some benefit from the hits that do get through 75% block and 43% dr... :azn:

And I didnt think that Enigma would have so much higher def - another reason to like Enigma over CoH. :wink3:

The clear disadvantage to Enigma in my eyes is that you simply have to fix the missing resists, HotO + mara being the obvious (and expensive solution). A little excel-calculation shows that with CoH you can make a decent max skill build with shako, oculus, magefist, arachnid, +2 skill rare amulet with fr (dont need mara for resists), anni/torch with 15 resists, 2xSoJ, gheeds, and your choice of wt or waterwalks. Its the cheapest max skill setup imo, and you only need around 3 SC's when wearing WT's to get above 300 mf. That further leaves a lot of space for skillers and mf charms. It also gives you two items with the option between mf or facets.

[ProfessionalBerg]

:cool: Honestly, I still prefer full Tal's for a Sorceress.

But if we're on the topic of RW vs RW, Enigma's defense does not really matter much - a sorceress has too little armor rating to be useful anyway.

Why is life/kill not so useful? Because even if we assume you kill large hoards of monsters, you cannot kill them all at once. You simply cannot replenish your life with that mod without being killed. I still prefer health pots/juves.

[jcldude]

Hehe, yeah I think that a Tal's setup will come out better really... but that discussion has been done so many times that I dont want to bring that up again. :laugh:

Its just that now that I have a full working Tal sorc I want to play some with other gear as well. :thumbsup:

[ModestyBlaze]

I always choose Coh over Enigma because the 65 to all res. The 65 to all res makes me have more res when I'm mf running with my mf sword and shield on switch. I don't need all the mf that enigma provides also because of the 280 % mf switch.

I always play Pvm and doesn't play hardcore so I don't need all the extra poins from str that goes into vit. The last reason that makes Coh my armor is the rep. life. I don't know why but I'm a sucker for rep. life =)

So back to the original question what armor to use for Coh. I use a Coh dusk for my orb/es mf sorc. The only reson that I'm using dusk over any other armor is that it make my sorceress look so much cooler in the chat =)

[jcldude]

Yeah I think I am going to go for a CoH instead with my max skill setup... which was my intention in the first place. :azn:

It really makes me more free to choose a rare +2 skill amulet as well since I would only be missing some fire resist to max them all. I could get one with as much mf as possible or any other useful mods (life would be nice).

[melianor]

Enigma on a Sorc? Now that sounds wrong or just good humor? :)
You can tele without Enigma?? :shocked:
Like this :D

When i made CoH i think i put it into something else but AP. Also since repairs are high with this item, this is a very nice caster switch item, or when using elites exclusively in your setup.

Comparing both fully enhanced Tal Rasha set and Elite unqiues on Archmage or Dual build can be hard, but both are definitly viable.