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chronicking
14-02-2008, 06:03
hello. i'm trying to build a viable fanatical avenging paladin. i guess that means i'm going to go for fanaticism instead of conviction at level 30. i know that conviction is probably the best route for an avenger but i have heard of but never tried a fanatical avenger. to me it would be easy to decide which direction to go at level 30 with fanaticism or conviction if i new a little more about fanaticism.

for example lets say my max damage when looking at the character screen during the game is 100.[ill use might instead of fanaticism in example cuz i have might at this time and not fanat yet but they both are similiar] ok with might on at level two it's supposed to give me +50% damage. now here's where i get confused. is this +50% just calculated from the physical damage or both the physical and elemental damage created by the skill vengeance? now IMO it would just be the physical damage that gets the bonus but i'm unsure.

here's another confusing aspect of this for me. now.......lets say i'm right and might is just augmenting my physical damage by +50% and not the elemental damage supplied by vengeance. is the elemental damage that comes with vengeance based on my character's original melee damage or the original damage +50% [from the might aura] ? if auras like might, concentration, and last but not least fanaticism give you the melee bonus then vengeance bases it's bonuses on the melee damage increased from one of the three aforementioned auras, it seems that the fanatical avenger would be a viable build, but if the elemental damage from vengeance is based on original melee damage and not an aura boosted melee damage, one would be crazy not to go with conviction over one of the damage boosting auras [might, concentration, fanaticism] due to damage output[a bit diff in convictions case because it weakens opponent instead of increasing damage induced].

well hopefully i worded that correctly enough so that when someone whom might know where i'm coming from can decipher it.

basically i'm trying to decide whether to create a fanatical avenging paladin or the conventional avenger of conviction paladin. if someone can understand my question and answer it for me , they may save me from scrapping a character at level thirty..........

thanx for reading and your time.

vorstelman
14-02-2008, 06:17
aura's like might and fanactism wil only boost physical damage like you thought. Im not sure wether the aura wil take affect before vengeance will, but wouldn't that be realy easy to test ingame? If you first check the character screen damage without the aura and then with the aura, if the increase is very small it doesn't work but if the increase is whatever the % bonus of the aura is then it does work.

So lets say you have 2k vengeance damage without any aura (i have no clue how much damage vengeance deals so this number is just something random)and with aura it turns into 2.1k then it doesn't work. but if it increases from 2k to 3k (50% from might) then it works.

chronicking
14-02-2008, 07:32
ok i tried that and the attack damage on the character screen is using some math i'm unsure of.

i took all equip, items, weapons etc etc out of my inventory til there was nothing left. no boosts , bonuses , or modifiers. i then switched on the character screen and put my left mouse indicator on normal attack and viewed my attack damage. at 53 strength this was a measly 1-3 . i then turned might on and expected it to raise +40% [level one might]. it did not move or change at all except the color. it turned blue [1-3 in attack damage slot] this baffled me. i dont understand why the +40% modifier didn't take effect. now put a sword in his hand. the sword does 5-18 damage with a +3 max damage mod. this raised the attack damage to 7-27. which is not 1-3 [original attack damage without sword] + 5-18 +3 max [ sword listed damage]. this does not add up using any math i know. granted im no math genuis or any other kind of genius but this does not compute. i'll also add that switching might [level one +40% damage]on during this with sword equipped did not raise damage to the proper bonus in the attack damage window of the character screen. this is why i dont know if vengeance gives bonus elemental damage to normal melee/physical damage or aura boosted melee / physical damage. i dont trust that attack damage slot...........

thanx for your reply and time

prion
14-02-2008, 08:35
vengeance damage is based primarily on the damage of the weapon itself, it will not do any additions based on your aura.

when using venegance with a damage aura you have 2 separate calculations going on, one for your veng damage and one for your phys damage, and they are added together to get the char screen number.

try searching the paladin forum for "damage formula" if you want more detail

chronicking
14-02-2008, 13:04
cool man i appreciate it.

i did do some reading and thanks to some other pointers found this thread.

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=517192

very good one for the would be avenger pally's out there like meself.

thanx for your time.

thegiantturtle
14-02-2008, 16:28
ok i tried that and the attack damage on the character screen is using some math i'm unsure of.

...i dont trust that attack damage slot...........The LCS (Lying Character Screen) got its name for a reason, but in this case, it's you that is calculating damage incorrectly. Your character strength affects bare hand and sword class weapon damage.

53 Strength is +53% off-weapon ED. 1-2 damage becomes 1.53-3.06 damage, rounded down to 1-3. With 40% ED from might (Also off-weapon ED), we have 93% ED. That would be 1.93-3.86 damage, rounded down to 1-3. (Note: the calculations are really done in integer arithmetic with a multiplication factor for extra precision, but this is close enough to show how it works).

Similarly, the +53% strength bonus would cause a 5-18 damage sword to do 7-27 damage. The +40% from might should bring it up to 9-34 damage. (My numbers might be off by 1 due to my simplified calculation process.)

chronicking
14-02-2008, 23:30
i think i'm starting to get it....... do all the auras just amplify weapon damage? from what i can tell so far might, concentration, and fanaticism only amplify weapon damage. i was surprised that might didn't factor the strength in with this just do to it's name and it's icon on the skill tree. it looks like a strength modifier by just looking at the icon pic, but i now realize this is not the case. i guess after playing Diablo one for so long and getting used to strength having so much to do with damage dealt, i couldn't get past it not having the same effect in this game.

from what i can tell in D2, is that strength is not that major of an attribute when it comes to dealing damage out like it was a necessity in the old game.
is this true for the most part? i mean i know it adds damage but the trade off with attribute points doesn't seem worth it? perhaps tailoring strength to the items you carry and wear are more important for strength than damage is.
dont know for sure......................any advice here is appreciated.


thanx for your time.

zarirazz
15-02-2008, 04:39
sometimes stats do play an integral part in main damage booster.
that's where titans and glass cannons come in.

titans: putting all (or most) of your stat points into strength. almost every melee weapon gets 1% off-weapon ed boost per strength point. for hammers, it's 1.1% !

glass cannons: putting all (or most) of your stat points into dexterity. popular with bowazons since per dex point provides 1% off-weapon bow damage.

these two type of builds concentrate more on damage than life. more of a "kill before killed" mentality =)