Avenger Question

[InactiveUser]

Hi. New to the forums here. I'm making an avenger pally and I'm just wondering if this is viable? Any advise will be much appreciated.

20 fire/lit/cold resistance
17 convict (items will get it to 25)
1 vengeance (I plan to go all the way with this toon (99) so I may be able to max this out. I'll find out)
1 holy shield (item skills will get it decent enough to block stuff considering my dex)

Equipment:

Weapon - Doom zerker (for the HF aura)
Armor - Dragon (for the Hfire aura)
Helm - Dream (for the HS aura)
Shield - Phoenix (for the life and redemption aura to make up for my lack of mana leech. I may get insight merc too but I dunno. I heard they don't do so well for those with low mana)
Gloves - Bloodfist (awesome gloves, IMO)
Boots - Waterwalk (I figure the added dex will help get what I need for max block considering I"m not going to max holy shield. The 65 life helps too :grin:)
Belt - I'm actually indecisive on what belt to use. I hear nightsmoke is good for the "%dmg to mana" mod, but maybe arach for the extra skills? I dunno.

I have mostly elemental dmg charms in my box to help with vengeance. Not too much to say here.

Also, I have a question about the item auras. I heard that resistance auras and auras from the mentioned items actually synergize with each other. Any truth to that? Well that's pretty much it. Thanks.

[Bjam]

Without going into too much detail, I definitely see room for improvement. You are a little aura happy and too focused on trying to maximize elemental damage without balancing the character for playability.

1) You don't have nearly enough IAS from your selected gear unless you are planning on running a Faith Merc. Without one, you'll want 90%+ IAS.
2) What rings and ammy are you planning on? I'd say Raven + LL/ML rare and either Mara or Highlord's (only because you need IAS).
3) How do you plan to max your resists? You aren't getting much from your gear. I'd scrap the Dragon Armor and consider CoH, Fortitude, or even Treachery for their resists and other helpful mods.
4) Belt? Nos Coil or String of Ears. Nos Coil gives you LL, strength, and 10% IAS while SoE gives LL, %DR, and MDR (better if you don't need IAS)
5) Bloodfists are nice, but if you need more IAS, then 20% IAS rare, crafted, set, or unique gloves may be a better option
6) You have no DR at all. It's not mandatory, but it is nice to have some.
7) I' d put more than just 1 point in HS (at least 10). You should have the points, but take a few points from cold resist if needed.
8) IIRC, max damage charms are factored into your weapon damage before factoring in Vengence (meaning that they get multiplied) and are therefore your best bet. If you want to load up on elemental charms, use lightning damage scs for maximum impact.
9) I'm not a fan of wielding Doom on an Avenger. eBotD and even Oath are better choices.

[InactiveUser]

Ya sorry about that. There are a few things I forgot to put down:

1 into salvation
I do plan on using a faith merc for the sole reason that without it my ias and ar will suffer due to the gear.
As for jewelry I got BK and raven and saraph's hymn.

My aim with this build is to balance elemental dmg from veng and pulse dmg from the auras on my gear. Would it be THAT much more viable to use ebotdz instead of doom? Besides, I'm relying on the +skills from Doom to get the 8 skill pts I need to get convict to 25.

What about that rumor about auras from gear synergizing with rez auras?

[Garisdacar]

from what i've read, you're better off maxing salvation instead of resist cold. but i've never tried an auradin before.

[Bjam]

The Merc:
Well it's good to see that you've thought about your IAS by using a Faith merc. However, I still prefer using an Act 2 merc. I'll present my case and let you decide for yourself.

Act 1 Faith Merc:
Pros: Big IAS boost, more AR, damage boost, doesn't die often
Cons: Max attack speed of 8 FPS can be reached even without Fanaticism, AR boost is minimally helpful since Conviction will give you a very high chance to hit no matter what, damage boost is less than with Might or Pride

NM Act 2 Merc: either HF + Pride OR Might + Doom (I prefer the latter)
Pros: Extra aura, slow effect, big damage boost, high merc damage (Might + Doom only)
Cons: Can get self killed when IM'd, no IAS boost, low merc damage (HF + Pride only)

The Weapon:
Using an eBotDz or eBotD Warspike will give more than a 50% boost to your base weapon damage vs. Doom. I'm a big fan of doing 50% more damage. You also get 15% more IAS. With a Warspike, you'll only need 20% IAS gloves to hit your target BP (without Fanaticism). In addition, you get loads of leech, which is one of the big problems for an Avenger. Finally, there is the hefty boost it gives your stats.
A properly equipped Act Merc will give you HF, CoH armor will give you back your +2 levels, a little DR, loads of resists, and some MF too.

But will your approach work?
Yes, of course it will. After all, your dude is loaded up with elite runewords everywhere. However, you will have a challenge getting your resists high enough in hell.

[InactiveUser]

Well I did some thinking and I'm not so sure the balanced approach is for me. I just want to have the sickest badboy cookie-cutting avenger ever conceived :grin:

I think I'll make a few changes cuz I'm trying to get the most out of my elemental dmg with vengeance, and to do that I'm probably gonna need a ton of +skills items like shako, hoz, coh, Doom (I still want to keep doom for the skills and the holy freeze since I'm going to use faith merc). And maybe keep phoenix on switch to clear up the bodies and get some life/mana back.

This guy said I should max salvation and leave cold resist alone save for 1 pt. Would that do more for vengeance than just maxing all the cold rez auras?

I'm going to use max dmg charms since it multiplies on vengeance rather than just lugging around elemental charms. I'll keep the lit ones tho :wink3:

I apologize for the buttload of questions here. I just want to see jaws drop to the ground when I solo and kick the crap out of hell baal in a full game, that's all. lol

Anymore advise would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks.

[maiku]

Hi. New to the forums here. I'm making an avenger pally and I'm just wondering if this is viable? Any advise will be much appreciated.

20 fire/lit/cold resistance
17 convict (items will get it to 25)
1 vengeance (I plan to go all the way with this toon (99) so I may be able to max this out. I'll find out)
1 holy shield (item skills will get it decent enough to block stuff considering my dex)

Equipment:

Weapon - Doom zerker (for the HF aura)
Armor - Dragon (for the Hfire aura)
Helm - Dream (for the HS aura)
Shield - Phoenix (for the life and redemption aura to make up for my lack of mana leech. I may get insight merc too but I dunno. I heard they don't do so well for those with low mana)
Gloves - Bloodfist (awesome gloves, IMO)
Boots - Waterwalk (I figure the added dex will help get what I need for max block considering I"m not going to max holy shield. The 65 life helps too :grin:)
Belt - I'm actually indecisive on what belt to use. I hear nightsmoke is good for the "%dmg to mana" mod, but maybe arach for the extra skills? I dunno.

I have mostly elemental dmg charms in my box to help with vengeance. Not too much to say here.

Also, I have a question about the item auras. I heard that resistance auras and auras from the mentioned items actually synergize with each other. Any truth to that? Well that's pretty much it. Thanks.

I agree with others that you should not use the "Doom" Berserker and should seek out a higher damage weapon. It's been a long while since I made an Avenger (I had one before the ladder reset), but one of the most important things on an Avenger is simply having the highest physical damage weapon you can get. This means like ethereal "Oath," "Death," "Breath of the Dying," etc. Essentially, you want your high physical damage converted into and added with insanely high elemental damage, because that's how Vengeance works. Remember to read Asmodeous's Avenger guide for specific details.

If you can, you may also want to consider Herald of Zakarum (awesomeness, yes, that's my description of it) or "Spirit" Pally shield ("Spirit" has lots of +mana, +Vit, super resists in the right shield, and tons of FHR--think about it...one of the few times when I recommend a "Spirit" for a melee build, and it suits this build, IMO). I think both will serve you better than "Phoenix" and help your resists and other stats. For belt, I'd recommend Thundergod's Vigor, String of Ears, Verdungo's, or Nosferatu's Coil (if you need more leech and IAS). I think all of those will serve you better than a Nightsmoke in this case. If you have sufficient damage, you should be able to leech back enough mana to keep fueling Vengeance, and with a 1-point Vengeance, basically you have a very low-cost attack anyway. It's a 20-point investment where you start to worry a bit. That's what I had on my old Avenger, but I was still able to keep him in the blue with a "Spirit."

Also, consider having a Merc with something like a "Rift" Thresher or "Voice of Reason" blade to take extra advantage of your Conviction aura and provide more crowd control. This is one of the weaknesses of an Avenger. You can let your Merc deal with AoE attacks and you yourself can do crazy single-target damage.

Yes, auras from items synergize with your invested skill points into resistance auras like Resist Cold or Resist Fire. Make good use of them. But on an Avenger, best is raw physical damage from a good weapon. :thumbsup:

[InactiveUser]

Ok all things considered, here's what I'm looking at:

20 fire rez aura
1 cold rez aura
20 lit aura
20 salvation
not maxing convict but I'll have to calculate the +skills from all my items. Might be just 10 pts I'll need. I'll figure it out.
1-5 holy shield

Equip:

Wep - Ebotdz (high physical dmg > high elemental dmg, it seems :undecided:)
Shield - HoZ (gonna use phoenix on switch to regain life/mana b/w fights)
Helm - Shako (I guess +skills and life/mana and dr will serve me better than dream helm)
Armor - CoH (Ya, Dragon was a stupid idea. I'll take the +skills and rez any day :wink3:)
Gloves - Bloodfist (I love these gloves. My faith merc will be more than enough to handle any lack of ias)
Belt - Verdungo (ya why not? I got an arach that I can trade for one so no prob)
Boots - Waterwalk (love the dex. Love the life. It's perfect :grin:)
Jewelry - Rings: BK and Raven. Amulet: Saraph's Hymn (very useful yet so very underrated for some odd reason)
Merc:

As I said, I'm going to use a faith merc which will deal with my lack of killing speed and also give me some much-needed ar.

As for charms I'm stickin with the max dmg charms and I got a Ptorch as well but any suggestions in this area would be appreciated.

Well that's it. If anyone still sees room for improvement here plz let me know. Thanks.

[Bjam]

This looks muuuuch better. Without holy freeze, you might have a little trouble with packs of fast, physical damage monster like Frenzytaurs, but your increased damage, leech, and DR will help mitigate that to a large extent. Otherwise, he should be a total tank.

[InactiveUser]

awesome, thanks. I'll get to work on it then. I do have one last question tho. What's the deal with maxing salvation instead of cold rez? Does this give me more dmg output than just maxing cold rez and sticking 1 pt into sal? Other than that I'm pretty much good to go. I deeply appreciate everyone's input on this. Many thanks and God bless. :smiley:

[Bjam]

I don't get it either. Adding to cold resist should be better for damage (10% vs, 6%) and the passive bonus it gives to your cold resists.

[InactiveUser]

Ya I thought it was wierd too. I'll just stick to what's familiar to me. Thanks for your help, bro. ttyl

[Norrit]

I just made an Avenger with base str and very l33t gear and I can say that he owns in full hell games, being an excellent tank (he's capable of holding off the minions by himself without breaking a sweat). IF you want to 1-hit KO everything in a full game, you should try that max aura setup with a two-hand weapon. You'll be a glass cannon but will accomplish your goal. if you want to have at least some survivability, your second choice looks much better.

On the cold resists stuff, it is my opinion that a single point will do, the reason for that being that you can't break some cold immunities in hell even with level 25 conviction, meaning you'll have just spent a lot of points for no benefit. Fire and Lightning immunities are much easier to break (the exception are a few unique monsters when they spawn light/fire enchanted and even then you may be able to break that) so you don't "waste" points on a kind of damage that your enemies will be immune to.

EDIT: aren't you going to max vengeance at all? I mean, it is an AVENGER, right?

[Norrit]

how do I delete double posts? =/

[maiku]

I'm curious, Norrit, but what 2-hander are you using on your Avenger? I have so many builds I want to try before I leave the game, and I am almost tempted to make an Avenger as well...except with a whopping 2-hander this time.

[Norrit]

If you're trying to max your aura damage and 1-hit KO, the weapon of choice would be Ebotdcb or HoJ in a cb. I'm using the former for fast kills and switch to weapon+shield when I actually want to get out alive of something (like being surrounded by hell minions)

[Garisdacar]

i said max salvation instead of cold res b/c i didn't realize one of the runewords gave you a holy freeze aura. if you only have holy fire and holy shock, then max fire/lit res and salvation, because salvation is a synergy for both auras AND vengeance, whereas cold res is a synergy for just vengeance.

but then if you do have a holy freeze aura from gear, then max the cold res.

i might be wrong, i've read a few guides but never actually built one of these guys b/c didn't have the wealth =(

[illestkhmai]

i said max salvation instead of cold res b/c i didn't realize one of the runewords gave you a holy freeze aura. if you only have holy fire and holy shock, then max fire/lit res and salvation, because salvation is a synergy for both auras AND vengeance, whereas cold res is a synergy for just vengeance.

but then if you do have a holy freeze aura from gear, then max the cold res.

i might be wrong, i've read a few guides but never actually built one of these guys b/c didn't have the wealth =(

Holy freeze damage is negligible.

[InactiveUser]

Ya thanks, Norrit. I'll try it your way with 1 into cold rez and maxing salvation. I do plan to max vengeance. Like I said, I'm going all the way with this guy (99) so I'll be able to max or at least get close enough to max it. Even if a couple points off still it'll do good dmg. And ya, I like your glass-cannon setup too, however, I wont' be doing that cuz I already have an 18k blizz sorc with base dex and like 1 pt into es and shiver so she's about as glassy as it gets :tongue:

I'm not going to go the aura-happy way cuz thinking about it, it'll just gimp me cuz I'll have only lvl 15 each aura, and even with max synergies the pulse dmg will be somewhat negligible......especially the cold aura, and of course they don't synergize with vengeance so without all the yummy +skill items I'd be left with crappy venge dmg and aura dmg that makes hell monsters go "huh? What was that?" But ya I'll try maxing salvation instead and see where that goes. Thanks for the advise.

[Bjam]

You've got yourself a nice Avenger in the classic mold. The only other variant I really like is a dual Dream setup (helm and shield). The auras stack, so at level 30 it packs a serious punch. My Avenger was the last character I built on the previous ladder. I went the classic route, since I didn't have enough wealth left to go with dual Dreams. I never considered going two-handed, but I bet it would be loads of fun.

[Summerfun]

how does deadly strike on a avenger?

[Norrit]

As far as I know, deadly strike/critical strike only applies to your physical damage, which is somewhat low. If I'm wrong, I'll definitely update my ebotdcb for a death cb and a highlord's ammy =D

[Summerfun]

Thanks on the info on DS/CS.
Why do you use a CB anyway? Dossent speed matter to you?
You need 232 ias to reach 10FPA with that.

A Champion Axe on the other hand only needs 99 ias.
Am i missing something?

[zarirazz]

^^i guess speed doesn't matter if you kill monsters in 1 or 2 hits.

[maiku]

Thanks on the info on DS/CS.
Why do you use a CB anyway? Dossent speed matter to you?
You need 232 ias to reach 10FPA with that.

A Champion Axe on the other hand only needs 99 ias.
Am i missing something?

I believe at least one use for a CB would be resale/reuse value, say if you wanted to put it on a Frenzy Barb.

[Norrit]

maiku is right, I use a cb for resale value in case I need gear for another char. Also, I use a faith merc and some decent IAS gear (the ebotd itself, andy's visage) so I do reach a decent breakpoint in speed even with such a slow sword.

[Summerfun]

maiku is right, I use a cb for resale value in case I need gear for another char. Also, I use a faith merc and some decent IAS gear (the ebotd itself, andy's visage) so I do reach a decent breakpoint in speed even with such a slow sword.

Fair enough. I were just wondering if i were missing something