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come back zinc
12-02-2008, 19:16
come back zinc's HC Fire Claw Bear

Mandatory Literary Introduction

As when a Beare hath seiz'd her cruell clawes
Vppon the carkasse of some beast too weake,
Proudly stands ouer, and a while doth pause,
To heare the piteous beast pleading her plaintiffe cause.

Things you'll need for this build:

* A reasonably fast weapon.
* Some kind of Life Leech.
* Some kind of Mana Leech or an Insight Merc.

Things you'll want for this build:

* A source of Crushing Blow
* 54% Faster Hit Recovery
* PDR, MDR and %PDR (Physical Damage Reduction)
* 110% Increased Attack Speed Phase Blade (4 Shaels and 2 15% IAS jewels)

Skill Distribution:

20 Fire Claws
20 Volcano*
20 Firestorm*
20 Oak Sage**
10+ Lycanthrophy
1-5 Shock Wave
4 Pts in Pre-Reqs (Maul, Werewolf, Werebear, Molten Boulder)
(95 Skill points means you're done at level 84)

* Fire Claws has 4 possible Synergies. Volcano is great for rushing other people through easier difficulties. Firestorm is more effective than Molten Boulder, though MB would appeal more to Indiana Jones fans.

** Oak Sage can wait until you're ready to spend the skill points, though one point earlier on can be a life saver. By Hell difficulty, the Sage is immune to Physical, so just keep an eye out for archers and mages.

Stats:

Strength: Enough for gear (70-150)
Dexterity: Enough for gear (136 is req'd for a Phase Blade, 238 (± 10) for max block at level 85 with a Rhyme Shield)
Vitality: Everything else. (Get this to 75-100 before you put points elsewhere!)
Energy: Nada y pues nada.

Breakpoints

Faster Hit Recovery

13 Frames - 0%
12 Frames - 5%
11 Frames - 10%
10 Frames - 16%
9 Frames - 24%
8 Frames - 37%
7 Frames - 54%
6 Frames - 86%
5 Frames - 152%

Faster Block

12 Frames - 0%
11 Frames - 5%
10 Frames - 10%
9 Frames - 16%
8 Frames - 27%
7 Frames - 40%
6 Frames - 65%

Fire Claws Break Point Examples

Barnar's Star - 11 FPA (2.2 attacks per second)
Barnar's w/ Shael - 9 FPA (2.7 attacks per second)

Aldur's with 3 Shaels - 8 FPA (3.1 attacks per second)
Lightsabre - 9 FPA (2.7 attacks per second)

Lightsabre w/ Shael - 8 FPA (3.1 attacks per second)
6 Shael Phase Blade - 4 FPA (6.1 attacks per second)

Gear Guidelines:

Hibernation Options (I'm starving!)

If you're starting Untwinked, it won't matter much for this build. You're a bear and, like any good scavenger, you can get by on almost anything. Use rubies to up your life pool, and look for fast one handed weapons. Remember that actual weapon damage is irrelevant once you've got Fire Claws; your Fire damage will quickly dwarf any physical damage you might have on your weapon. Remember, speed is key.

* Socketable armors and helms with rubies or sapphires
* Gloves with Increased Attack Speed or Mana/Life Leech.
* Rings with Leech
* Amulets with Resistance, Life, etc.
* A Rhyme shield works great when/if you find a Shael, as it will provide the Cannot be Frozen mod and some Res and MF to boot.
* Boots with FRW can save your life!

Pick-a-Nick Basket Options (Smarter than the average bear!)

For the player who has amassed a few uniques and sets, this bear can really shine. Aldur's is a great option, with Shaels or IAS jewels in the mace, though you'll always be looking for that 6 socket Phase Blade.

* Smoke or Duress make great armors, requiring a Lum and Um, respectively.
* Jalal's is your best option for a helm, socket with your choice of jewel.
* A 6 socket Phase Blade with Shaels will hit 4 frames per attack.
* Moser's with Pdiamonds is a great option, as is a good, high-D Rhyme Shield.
* Some + Skills on switch for pre-buffing your bear form as well as your Oak Sage.
* As mentioned, Aldur's is a very good set for this build, but it won't hit that 6 attack per second goal. Great for leveling, but not end-game material.

Ravenous (Tonight we dine on man-flesh!)

This is a little out of my league, but if you're going all out, you should shoot for 4fpa with 50% CB and 50% DR with about 25-40 PDR and another 20-30 MDR.

* Verdungos / Tgods / String / etc.
* Duress / Other, better armors
* Dracul's
* Jalal's or a 3FC / 3Oak / 3Lyc, +2 Dru skills with other mods...
* Ravenfrost
* Dwarf Star / Res LL/ML Ring
* 2 Skill / 20 All Res / 20 Str / 20 Dex / LL/ML / PDR ammy.
* Stormshield
* Gore Riders / War Travs
* Spirit pre-buffs on switch

Mercenary Options

A2 Prayer or Blessed Aim Mercenary with an Insight Polearm.

Prayer Merc synergizes with Meddy. Expect to get back 30, or so, life per second when he's holding an Insight Polearm. Alternatively, Blessed Aim helps keep the AR up (if you've got difficulties) so that you aren't shooting blanks. A2 mercs make great tanks for times when you're staring down a FE foe, or you're just plain too lazy to make all the kills.

A3 Cold or Lightning Mercenary to deal with Immunes.

Haven't really ever tried this Merc with this build, but it's theoretically sound. Just make sure he's not spitting out the same type of damage you are. The major drawback is his inability to tank when you want to avoid the nasty stuff.

To Block or Not to Block.

The age old question. I've been on both sides of this debate, and I currently run with 50% Block. When you're blocking you're not attacking. Block can be great for power walking through projectiles, and works great earlier on (before you get big, strong and fast). But, ultimately, it slows you down, reducing how quickly you tear through opponents during runs. Enough for the Phase Blade should be enough for a block that won't get in the way too often.

Things to watch out for.

NM Council and everything else FE

Geleb's FE will kill you dead in NM, no matter how much life you have. Remember that you revert to human from Bear form before you die... with 1 measley Life. Act accordingly.

Staying in Bear Form

Earlier on, your Bear form can be your biggest enemy. An untimely switch back to human form can leave you in a real pickle. Whenever you get a chance, recast Were Bear.

How to approach Fire Immunes

Speed and CB are your best friends in situations like these; so is your merc. With a 4 Frame attack, they'll take about 10 times longer to kill... with a 7 Frame, this can mean hours. Let your merc do the job or just keep walking! You're a huge bear! You've got plenty of better things to be doing!

Know when to run!

Keep an eye on those curses. Being Amped isn't a bother, but Being Amped when your foes have Blessed Aim can really hurt. If you're looking at a whole pack of Fire Immunes, and you've got a sizeable life pool, just keep moving... they'll stop following you eventually.

What this build is good for:

Completing the game solo untwinked? Yes. Running Pindle/Shenk/Thresh/Eldritch/WSK/Countess/Baal? Yes. Party Play? Yes (but watch those FELEs). Being a rescue tank? Yes. Helping lower level characters get through tough spots? Yes. Looking really badass while slapping more often than Bobby Brown? Yes.

What this build is bad for:

Running Council/Nihlathak/Summoner/Meph/Diablo. Killing large groups in seconds. Soloing the game quickly. Not being a kick-*** bear.

MrKaxe
12-02-2008, 19:26
Very nice guide dude, well written and informative; answered my only question of the viability of Aldur's set on a FC druid in HC! (I'll make that Summoner Druid with it instead!)

PestInReace
12-02-2008, 19:53
Thanks dude! I started a FC druid a few days ago and i've been saving ~15 skill points of which i have no idea to put in either oak or lycan.
Would just like to add that you can give your merc weapons like Bonehew or Reapers Toll and a ll helmet and he'll take care of those FE immune baddies very well, even FE/PI's if the merc uses reapers.
On switch i use a grim wand with lvl 3 lower res charges and it helps a ton vs bosses.

Just a thought :smiley:

xXxfunbobxXx
12-02-2008, 20:07
nice 1 zinc and a good read to hope there are more to come maybe updates

come back zinc
12-02-2008, 20:30
Thanks guys.

I just wanted to put it out there in case anyone ever had questions.

I left out a lot of stuff which is, in some cases, obvious, but I found it was getting a little long-winded. I tried to leave it as open-ended as possible, while still covering some of the more important aspects of the build.

In terms of Merc weapons... whatever works! I use the Insight because I was unable to find a good source of Mana Leech, but anything is viable as long as you can keep your blue bulb full. SW can be mana intensive when spammed (plus it doesn't leech), so keep that in mind! You'd also hate to be unable to switch back to Bear form if you morph while fighting a back of mana burners.

One thing I overlooked is playstyle. Basically, you run untill you find a pack. If the pack is big, you turn around and walk backwards a few paces so that they make a group. You Shockwave them and then pick your targets. If the pack is smaller, don't waste any time with SW; clobber them! If they're FI, SW 'em a bit and see if they're worth your time (Uniques, Champions, Ghost types for Runes).

EDIT: (For Mr. Kaxe) Aldur's can work. I soloed Baal with most of Aldur's set the first time down, and once you've got the full thing, you're a pretty tough cookie (+30-50 most Attributes, +3 skills, and about +100% res all for 4 items is sweet). I just find that it doesn't really exploit the killing power of Fire Claws. You could keep the Phase Blade on switch, but then you lose the set bonus that makes Aldur's worthwhile. If you're going to use any of Aldur's, hang on to the boots, as they're hard to top, even for end-game. Ultimately, once you've tasted the 4 frame FC you'll want to build around that Phase Blade and it's killing power.

RoXoR
13-02-2008, 07:27
something to note, sages are PI in nm but not hell...
great guide tho :) <3 bears, nice poem too lol

MYK
13-02-2008, 07:56
Nice guide :)

I've got a question.

Why did you pump Oak Sage over Lycanthropy?

I know they essentially give the same life boost, except Oak Sage likes to go get hit by stuff and he doesn't improve your shifted time at all.

oOmpie
13-02-2008, 14:50
MrKaxe, I have a 6sock PB in stash somewhere if you want it.

MrKaxe
13-02-2008, 14:52
Mmmm...when I decide to make him I will take you up on that...might be a while tho but thx!

STINGER
13-02-2008, 19:14
Nice guide :)

I've got a question.

Why did you pump Oak Sage over Lycanthropy?

I know they essentially give the same life boost, except Oak Sage likes to go get hit by stuff and he doesn't improve your shifted time at all.


All Wearforms I have done I have always maxed both but in this build you need the synergies so you need to cut something, which you have, but I have the same question now that it has been mentioned.

If you max Lyc, you get 5% life each point in it
Increasing Oak you get 5%

But Doesnt Oak increase what you have while under Lyc so any % gained from Lyc is then boosted again under Oak?

Now, with not knowing the build 100%, I suppose if there is some time where you are a caster and not in wear form then the max Oak and less Lyc may make sense, but frankly I personally dont see a reason not to be in form as the build is a Fire Claw Mauler. Sure your other skills are maxed and work also, but your claws rock, dont have IM issues...etc

prion
13-02-2008, 20:58
i've never seen zinc play as caster, even around IM.

There may be a couple of reasons to max out Oak first:
-party benefit
-oak lives longer

However I would suggest around 15 points to be enough if someone would prefer to put more points in lycanthropy. My windy doesn't have max oak, but at level 18 it's pretty sturdy; at the very least, I can see it dying well ahead of time and recast before losing the bonus.

STINGER
13-02-2008, 23:54
IDK, Oaks either live or they die fast, , i suppose it depends on +skills, but 330ish life, lvl 15 seems doable easily if you put 10 in it and 20 might be doable depending on final gear.

Frankly a 50% Oak vs 100% Oak when you yourself doesnt have Oak is just outstanding. In todays game I really think you should build "solo first" and "party second" unless you know you will be partied. Not sure what the actual losses in max life would be, but it could be alot....

50% just for being a Bear, then 115% at lvl 20 for Lyc that boosts that 50%, then another 100% boost of all of that if you can get lvl 15 Oak!

My little MFer Sorc went from damn tuff to kill to nearly invincible jsut adding Natures Peace, sure there is some DR there, but that OAk took me to like 1800+ life and that is what lvl 5 or so Oak? Lived pretty darn well really.

come back zinc
14-02-2008, 02:40
My motivation was party play. I had a bunch of points banked and decided I'd rather share the life. W/O Oak I have 3000 Life, shifted. Lycanth is where all my remaining stat points have gone. The 3000 Life has always kept me out of trouble, and I didn't see the point in having any more when spacemole, who i normally play with, could use the life boost.

But MyK and Stinger's point is valid. Max the Lycanth if you're solo... it's just the smarter thing to do. When your oak dies, you'll have more to fall back on.

MrBill
21-02-2008, 01:01
...<snip> Ultimately, once you've tasted the 4 frame FC you'll want to build around that Phase Blade and it's killing power.

I don't know... somehow the idea of just stuffing a PB with Shaels and Eths seems... how would I put it... "cheesy".

What about a Shael'ed Lightsaber (ITD) with some nice +IAS gear like on the gloves or maybe +15% IAS jewels in the hat?

Or how about a Fool's Mod rare Scourge with 30% built-in IAS and then a Shael on top of that? (I have had great results from "Honor" Runeword Scourges on a wide variety of melee characters.)

It's just that you give up SO much physical damage and nice other things (like the Lightening Absorb on the Lightsaber, for example) to use the "Black / Red Phase Blade" approach. Maybe you have to in PVP but for PVM?

I just couldn't bear to... pun intended :grin:

Mr_Bill

BTW: My trapper has thrown out two 6 socket PBs so far this week as she has wandered through the Pits / Tunnels / etc. on MF'ing runs. Maybe I should keep one just to give you guys? :smiley:

MYK
21-02-2008, 07:07
I don't think you give up that much physical damage if you have your character setup to take advantage of a 4 frame attack with some crushing blow gear behind it.

How about what you're willing to give up for some %absorb and a little elemental damage?

A plain Lightsabre will slap FireClaws around at 9 frames per swing.
Toss in a Shael and you get 8 frames.
Achieve 15 off weapon IAS and you get a 7 frame attack with lightsabre.

That's pretty lumbering compared to a 4 frame attack. Especially if that 4 framer has some Crushing Blow behind it.

Master Zap
21-02-2008, 08:59
if you want the 4fpa and some physical oomph behind your fireclaw then you cant forgot my favorite, the Gris Caddy. Not that easy to find, but worth mentioning.

come back zinc
21-02-2008, 17:59
If you're really interested in pimp points, then you'd need a 4 shaeled Jeweler's Phase Blade of Quickness. :cool:

You can Fire Claw at slower speeds, but then it's very much like smiting at slow speeds; the attack is a vehicle for the Crushing Blow and Fire damage. Plus, having low damage keeps you IM-safe when doing Chaos runs with funbob.

I tried slower speeds with more base damage, and it was alright, but 30k fire damage per second quickly eclipses all other options. Even with a 7fpa lightsabre, I'd only get about 18-20k mixed damage: 60% of what I could be getting. There are a lot of Fire Immunes, but that's why I've got CB and a kick-arse merc.

come back zinc
21-02-2008, 18:04
Double post.

Raver
27-02-2008, 23:29
Would you recommend using Duress or Gladiator's Bane?

come back zinc
28-02-2008, 05:04
Would you recommend using Duress or Gladiator's Bane?

I've never had a Gladiator's so I couldn't say from experience, but it looks like it would work just fine. If you need the CBF and you're at level 85 then I don't see the problem, so long as you've got your other needs met: Resistance, Crushing Blow, etc.

Tor Land
07-03-2008, 23:08
couldn't you just use azurewrath+hunger on fireimmunes? (like Kodiac)

come back zinc
07-03-2008, 23:23
You can use poison potions if you're so inclined... I tried to make the build open-ended as I don't have the time or the funds to try out all kinds of different set-ups.

It worked for me and I saw a few people ask about the basics so I made a quick guide. In terms of the absolute bests for all situations, I am, sadly, ill-informed.

Tor Land
07-03-2008, 23:50
Yes, i haven't tried it myself either but it was listed as the best weap for a Kodiak in his guide so I just thought i'd mention it since it only requires 1 point :=) (and since it's as "cheap" as the rest of the gear) Props to you for a cool guide!

MYK
08-03-2008, 06:55
It can just require one point.

You could probably max it off if you wanted. It's not like Fire Claws has any trouble taking out non-fire immunes or anything with just 40 points in it and the uber phase blade of 120%IAS.

If you do go with one point, you'll want to shoot the moon with your AR adders until you get it nice and high. Druids don't really get a very good AR boost per level to be multiplied by their skills unless you play a wolf.

jasonmazzy
09-03-2008, 22:23
please check out my question about building one now that I'm already lvl 84 lol. I have 25 skill points remaining and want to know how best to approach my kodiak/fireclaws hybrid.

BlastDuke
13-06-2008, 14:02
if you want the 4fpa and some physical oomph behind your fireclaw then you cant forgot my favorite, the Gris Caddy. Not that easy to find, but worth mentioning.

Gris caddy can only reach 5 Frames/Attack = 5 Attacks/Second, and is therefore slower than the Phase Blade.

Attack speed table for Griswold 's Redemption/Caduceus
WIAS fpa aps
0 % 18 1.3
3 % 17 1.4
5 % 16 1.5
10 % 15 1.6
13 % 14 1.7
17 % 13 1.9
26 % 11 2.2
37 % 10 2.5
49 % 9 2.7
56 % 8 3.1
64 % 7 3.5
81 % 6 4.1
102 % 5 5

Master Zap
13-06-2008, 17:25
I stand corrected blastduke, you are right, thanks for putting the right info in the thread. However my point is still valid, that gris caddy is a very fast wep with a decent amount of physical damage that helps with leach and takes out the fire immunes.

BlastDuke
14-06-2008, 16:26
I stand corrected blastduke, you are right, thanks for putting the right info in the thread. However my point is still valid, that gris caddy is a very fast wep with a decent amount of physical damage that helps with leach and takes out the fire immunes.

Gris' caddy looks very good, indeed. Do you have any experience regarding the repair costs, since it's not indestructible like the Phase blase?

AgentMarth
15-06-2008, 00:39
Gris' caddy looks very good, indeed. Do you have any experience regarding the repair costs, since it's not indestructible like the Phase blase?

TBH, I think that would be my main concern with the Caddy vs the PB. I hate, hate having to stop what I am doing to go to town and repair something. Really though, Caddy does help with leech, but I would sooner just got the PB.

*Loves his 6 Sheal 15 ED 3 AR Perfect PB*

Master Zap
16-06-2008, 18:00
Repair cost of the gris caddy is low and infrequent. This has been my primary shifter wep for quite some time (fireclaw bear, Bear sorc and wolf-barb). I do agree that repair's can get ghastly, but the gris cad doesn't fall under that catagory. (anyone ever try keeping up on the costs of repairing a lastwish/beast in a ba, ouch! )

BlastDuke
23-06-2008, 10:33
What do you guys think if I would replace the suggested 4fpa Phase Blade (>108% WIAS) with an "Oath" Phase Blade (50% WIAS)?

I think this weapon would be better against fire immunes (Bone spirit & Physical) and the PMH and the possibility to cast an additional Iron Golem sound nice (=more safety for HC bears).

But will this be enough to outweigh the lesser weapon speed (only 6 fpa instad of 4)?

One thing that I do not know:
Will the +% Damage to Demons also increase the Fire damage from FireClaws?

prion
24-06-2008, 09:21
+% damage to (whatever) only ever affects physical damage

and...the IG would basically be a waste because of your life and defense boost, and he would poof between games, and be stupid expensive to repair

i like oath, i can't look up the exact speed right now, but i used my oath BB on a barb in wolf form and i felt it was fast enough.

AgentMarth
24-06-2008, 09:42
What do you guys think if I would replace the suggested 4fpa Phase Blade (>108% WIAS) with an "Oath" Phase Blade (50% WIAS)?

I think this weapon would be better against fire immunes (Bone spirit & Physical) and the PMH and the possibility to cast an additional Iron Golem sound nice (=more safety for HC bears).

But will this be enough to outweigh the lesser weapon speed (only 6 fpa instad of 4)?

One thing that I do not know:
Will the +% Damage to Demons also increase the Fire damage from FireClaws?

The Oath would be a decent weapon, since it is semi fast and the damage is nice. You could always try it out and see for yourself, but I would use the fastest base possible, maybe Eth Scourge?

Also, the Iron Golem, like said, would poof, or die since with no mastery he will be weak. That is also not considering that in order for you to be able to repair the charges, you cannot make it in a Eth base. Anyone who makes Oath in a regular bse weapon just isn't thinking.

Tai.
04-06-2009, 18:58
Bumping this for the thread about FC vs Strafe.

Again, nice guide Zinc

ZappaFan
04-06-2009, 19:15
I thought of this thread the other day when I had a rare pelt drop that was +2 Druid Skills and +3 Fire Claw, along with some other nice mods.