View Full Version : Safe untwinked sorc build?
BilboTeabaggins
07-02-2008, 16:53
Looking to build a safe sorc that can mf hell andy/meph with low costing equip. Too trusting with someone and ended up getting tppk'd so I'm looking for a private char to mf with until I build up enough friends to reg play with and I only have about a mal rune worth of stuff to do it with. I know I won't get anything godly with it but if there's some base gear that would let me at least mf nm meph at around lvl60 without worrying about dying.
Meteorb gets my vote...it acts like a tri-elementalist in the sense that for PvM you Fireball the Cold Immunes, Orb the Fire Immunes and Dual Fire/Cold Immunes get the Static and Merc treatment!
For Andy, torch her with Fireball while dropping Meteors on her head and Meph gets the Moat Trick until he's weak then jump over and Orb him!
Viper/Wizzy/Whitstans
The core basics that can take any sorc throught the game!
Charms...life and some mana, start rolling them so you can get 1200+ life in the end
Water Walks, even a bad pair is nice
Frosties always works
Shako is definetly nice but you can use others like Pcrown
Rhyme/Alibaba or Gull on switch is enough MF to start with
I like Tals belt, I like DTM (damage to mana) and it gives some dex and a little MF also.
My personal MF build is Blizzard with ES/TK, but ORB works well also. I personally dont suggest a Fire build although they can do the job also a cold build can do alot of other areas in late hell that a Fire build cant, ot struggles with, but at the same time a Fire build can do some things a cold build cant. Lightning....not a great untwinked way to go.
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=557123
That link is a good read, its specifically for an Orb build but if you dont like Orb you can adjust it.
IMO the investment into teleport is optional. If you intend to keep this build as an MFer for its entire life then invest in the Teleport, btu if you want to play here for other things you might consider not doing that and pumping the synergy.
ORB is not a "great" PvM 4-8 player game skill, its not killing things like other sorcs can, so IMO an Orber is an MFer so if I ever built an Orber I would make here an MFer 100% and would invest in teleport!
Meteorb gets my vote...it acts like a tri-elementalist in the sense that for PvM you Fireball the Cold Immunes, Orb the Fire Immunes and Dual Fire/Cold Immunes get the Static and Merc treatment!
For Andy, torch her with Fireball while dropping Meteors on her head and Meph gets the Moat Trick until he's weak then jump over and Orb him!
This build works, but IMO it isnt a "safe build" for all players. It lacks the Energy Sheild and Telek that can greatly increases the survivability of a Sorc.
BTW, really no sorc nor build is safe unless it is built and played properly!
This build works, but IMO it isnt a "safe build" for all players. It lacks the Energy Sheild and Telek that can greatly increases the survivability of a Sorc.
BTW, really no sorc nor build is safe unless it is built and played properly!
ES isn't needed imo...
LuckyDwarf
07-02-2008, 18:28
ES isn't needed imo...
Of course it isn't needed, but it helps greatly when/if you mess up. It's just one of the many defensive measures you should take on a budget mfing build.
Lucky
its all in what you want! Most players dont want to moat trick Meph, first it can cause you to have to kill council guys and even could cause abandoned runs while if you are built to tank anything Meph throws at you then you never have to worry about it and you tele right past everything and give Meph a big fat death kiss! Moat trick works indeed but it is definetly the least productive way to farm him as he dies at least 2-3 times slower or more due to many reasons, one being the time it takes to pull him to the spot and also the fact he can wonder in and out of the damage a bit and also dealing with the council.
IMO Telek is a MUST for SOLO MFing "with high productivity" and this guy said nothing about glitching and using a Barb to BO him. That and any time someone uses the word "safe" then I am expecting them to want help with the "safest and most effective builds" and going without ES is NOT the safest way to do it!
Of course it isn't needed, but it helps greatly when/if you mess up. It's just one of the many defensive measures you should take on a budget mfing build.
Lucky
Well again, it's my opinion, you don't have to take the skill, it's not going to make your build fail if you don't...
Bilbo, what is your playing style? Are you a veteran of SC and can handle certain builds or do you have an abject fear of dying? I think that would give us a better idea of how to proceed instead of the rest of you ganging up on me about how wrong my opinion is when my playstyle obviously differs to others :soapbox:
BilboTeabaggins
07-02-2008, 18:50
I'm confident with my sc play and I've used mf sorcs many times in the past, just never needed to use ES since I really didn't care about dying. I've had a lot of close calls in the past and very rarely died and those are usually with terrible resists and no ES so I think orb/tk could really work for me.
Sorry MrKaxe, but your opinion is a poor one!
What "works for you" doesnt work for everyone....I mena, hell I can make tons of builds with crap gear and beat this game but I sure wouldnt recommend that to someone asking for a "safe" build!
Many times posts around here and on all forums in general dont even read and comprehend the OPs post. They just spew out some build that worked and dont give the guy what they asked for. Kind of like those old story problems in math, you need to cut out the bull and find the core of the question and answer it.......
Sorc....safe....untwinked
There is no safer a sorc built in this game than one with ES/TK no matter how you play it and no matter how you gear it!!!
it is impossible for you to disprove that!
There are plenty of ways to play this game. It is rare that one opinion is right.
So, let the OP have the opportunity to read several different views, ascertain which suits his personal playstyle and adapt that to his requirements. :smiley:
*My version of safe is with 105%fcr of a cold/fire Blizzballer and max life not max block. I rarely use ES, athough I can see the value, I just prefer to put the points elsewhere.
However, if you are only looking to MF Hell Andy/Memph, have you considered a Blizz sorc?
personally, I don't think much of handling immunes with teleport. You'll end up putting yourself into more and more dangerous situations with no safe place to retreat to.
Yes, prion I see your point.
My suggestion came from my own dislike of Orb really. I did use it in the Memphython to run Memphy (SC I admit) and have to say I do prefer the power of Blizzard. This also comes down to life/block and fcr preferences.
Gentleman I use to MP with always ran with max block on a Stormshield and 63% fcr. I'm terrified with anything less than 105% and much prefer max vita.
Also is the OP going to MP at any point? If so then the single tree won't be as scary a concept and would bring Pindle to heel.
Although for general play I agree with you on single trees.
Personally, if completely untwinked:
Orb/TK with the 63 fcr breakpoint and decent fhr breakpoint, max block of course.
If you have some starter gear you can start prebuffing and getting level 5+ EShield easy, but otherwise I'd put a hard point in it
Single tree classes dont need to handle immunes with teleport! They handle them with static and a Merc and if smart use other skills like their 1 point (invested and boosted by other +skills) in a lightning skill they spent to get ES and also use Telek as you can use it to pin many foes against walls and even keep them from attacking.......IIRC Telek works vs all foes that can be stunned and the Council happens to be dudes it definetly works against.
Now, as for many classes there is always those foes that are unkillable when solo like a Holy Freeze Boss who basically turns your buddy the Merc into a statue!
I do Council with my Blizz Sorcs when I feel like it. My Blizz Sorc do NOT ever get rushed or boosted, they ALL complete the game under their own power. Sure, there are places I like to get some people to run with its rather crazy to hit some areas solo without proper gear, but those are all beyond Meph in Hell which is really the goal spot for an Meph runner to get to unless he wants to add Pindle to his runs.
Matter of fact, if you were really concerned about immunes but really wanted a single tree sorc you could even put a + other element setup on switch and use it when needed. +Fire ammys and staves or +Cold or + Lightning are a dime a dozen and easily gambled and shopped.
For instance a skill like Fire Wall is pretty damaging even at a very low lvl if you have a staff that provides you the skill and a few + alls and maybe a few +to FW it will help your merc kill just fine.
In Classic where there is no Merc in Act 4, I kill stuff with Chain Lightning or Lightning and Static, now Static is better there, but you still cant kill with it you have to finish it off with something and its not going to be your Shard! ;)
There are MANY ways to get the job done......besides, while running say Meph/Pindle/Andy/Ancient Tunnels/Moseleum...etc, all the places a Cold Sorc can productively MF its only going to be every once in a while that you run into something that is an issue.....we are talking about a single player game, hell having a Kuko on switch is enuff to do it with a Merc!!! Having an Enchant item to boost your Merc can be all it takes.....a Lower Resist Charge wand!!!
bigtfatty
07-02-2008, 22:54
I'm coming off a break from Diablo 2, and I just wanted to know when TK became useful.
When 1.10 came out in what 2005? Maybe it was 2004?
it reduces the loss of mana while using Energy Sheild.
BilboTeabaggins
11-02-2008, 21:52
Alright I checked out the guide for a hardcore orb/tk sorc but I'm still unclear on a couple big things - how does tk work if energy shield says it only absorbs about 20% of the damage at level 1? Also why is it better to have a merc for damage instead of one using insight for even further safety?
come back zinc
11-02-2008, 22:10
1. That percentage rises steadily with points invested in TK (IIRC)
2. The Kelpie is preferred as it will SLOW Mephisto substantially, a 75% slow down means it takes four times as long for him to attack, and there is a chance his attack will be cancelled by his own AI in the meantime. (IIRC, of course.)
Usufruct
11-02-2008, 23:03
I sure wish I hadn't killed myself with that eth kelpie in my stash :(
BilboTeabaggins
11-02-2008, 23:26
Wouldn't it still be better to use insight since you would almost be immune even teleing?
Anybody know how exactly the energy shield % works in accordance with tk? I've been looking around but can't seem to get an explanation on how this build works.
with no telekinesis, energy sheild takes 2 mana points for each point of damage inflicted. Each hard point in TK reduces that by a small amount (one-sixteenth). So at 16 points in TK you get a 1:1 ratio and at 20 its .75 mana lost for every 1 damage.
BilboTeabaggins
12-02-2008, 00:35
Ya I know that lol, I asked why does that even matter if energy shield isn't blocking a large percent of the damage? Like if energy shield is only absorbing 20% of the damage and my character is taking the other 80%, doesn't seem like I'll be that safe.
come back zinc
12-02-2008, 00:54
Ya I know that lol, I asked why does that even matter if energy shield isn't blocking a large percent of the damage? Like if energy shield is only absorbing 20% of the damage and my character is taking the other 80%, doesn't seem like I'll be that safe.
The idea is that, with +Skills putting you up to around level 8, you'd end up with a Life pool around 800, and a mana pool somewhere in the neighbourhood of 600.
If you take 50 damage... 25 goes to life and 25 to damage. The 25 to damage drops your life pool 25 points (reduced by 1/32) and your mana is reduced 17.75 points (reduced by 1/32). The idea is that the mana pool drains at a similar rate to your life pool. What good is 400 mana if you have no life?
In terms of the Insight. Socialism figured out that he could effectively never get hit so long as he had decent enough FCR. Mana burn (aka no Tele) ceases to be an issue if you never get hit.
if you max out esheild and get lots of +skills then you can get most damage going to your your mana pool. if you only go 1 pt in esheild then there's no real point in maxing tk
BilboTeabaggins
12-02-2008, 03:56
So it would be better to just max es and tk? I guess like 20 es, 20 tk, 20 orb, 10 cold mastery, 20 teleport would be good?
xXxfunbobxXx
12-02-2008, 09:43
in my oppinion the extra skill points in es are better spent in warmth also u dont need max teleport u just need enouhg to lower mana cost to around 5 points btw the orb/tk build is a great build for mfing meph but not really any thing else maybe pindle tunnels and maus but i found it semi dificult to do andy some times but with the build i never really found my self in danger
my gear sugestions are as follows
shako/sazabi/tarnhelm/3 ptopaz
mf ammy 3 cold skill or 2 sorc some kinda of nice rare.
wiz spike/ suicidebranch/hoto/spirit/ "occy"
upped viscurderent pdiamond or eld/whistams/ryhme/ss
vmagi/smoke Eth+lum/stealhth "tal+eth"/4 ptopaz armor
bloodfist/frostburns/magefist/chance guards
tals belt/nightsmoke/goldwrap
rare rings with fcr/raven/dwarf/nagel
waterwalks/tri/di res boots nice mods frw dex fhr/aldurs if u wanna add str/war travs for mf
inventory life/mana charms mf/mana charms resist charms if needed.
So it would be better to just max es and tk? I guess like 20 es, 20 tk, 20 orb, 10 cold mastery, 20 teleport would be good?
In no order, this is how I set the stats on mine.
20 points in Orb and cold mastery
17-20 into TK
15-20 Teleport (I like to hit a 1 mana cost teleport if possible. )
Rest in ES (My last sorc had around 70-75% Energy Shield and she was great, except her crap gear and stupid low amount of life. She still didn't die to Mephisto despite that)
If you're going to hunt Mephisto, Cold Mastery is awesome until about level 31-32, that's when it stops working Vs. Mephy. If you just want a Orb/ES sorc to rush or whatever then getting CM to 17 is the norm.
Almost any sorc build is going to have +3-7 ALL Skills so 30%-55% ES is pretty simple. +2 weapon, +1 helm, +1 ammy is +4 and that can pretty easily be +6 depending on items.
Also, Warmth on a Sorc is an absolute waste of points! Sure, put 1 point in it so all your + skills can get you around 100% and it pays off, but investing in it and getting to even 300% is a worthless investment. Run insight and get what 575-700% from it and put the points elsewhere! Simple fact is tht HC Srocs have been flying around all over the game without Insights and without investing into energy, and without investing into Warmth for YEARS!!! Yep, they even did it when you couldnt buy mana pots!
Mana burn...never had a major issue with MB, this is what they make juvs for and if you want more help with it use Tals belt or Nightsmoke for DTM. MB is also what FCR is for, more fast casting the less you get hit. Wasting points in Warmth is just not smart.
Also, ES at 30% "damage reduction" which is basically what it is as it reduces the damage taken to life and transfers it to mana is a pretty nice amount of damage reduction. People pay an arm and a leg to get an SS and its PDR is 35% and its only on physical damage so basically not as good as ES is.
Another note in the gear list above why would you "up and PDiamond a Viscreataunt" but you would put an ELD in a Whitstans when the Whitstans is already the best blocking shield in the game and with a Pdiamond + Wizzy + Viper almost covers your resists?
To finalize, I have ran around in 1.10+ with sorcs with 1 point ES, 1 point Warmth and 17 in TK without the use of Insight. Sure, my two new Sorcs who and 35 and 42 both have Insights and Spirit Swords and run around like there is an energy pump attached to them, hell its too freaking easy!
Hell go for a full DR build Sorc, use Insight, pump Warmth/ES/TK, get resists and some absorbs and you could probably go AFK 1v1 with a mana burner and live!
come back zinc
12-02-2008, 16:24
vmagi/smoke Eth+lum/stealhth "tal+eth"/4 ptopaz armor.
I think Eth-Lum is the 'Crap' RW.
Regenerate Mana 15%
+ 10 Energy
Looks like the poor man's version of Heavenly Garb.
xXxfunbobxXx
12-02-2008, 16:56
I think Eth-Lum is the 'Crap' RW.
Regenerate Mana 15%
+ 10 Energy
Looks like the poor man's version of Heavenly Garb.
o i meant nef lum
btw stinger i diddnt run mine with insight
i prefer kelpie snare or maybe even reapers toll if i can find one.
edit i also perfer visc to whistans just for the skill point but yes whistans is a better blocker
Even without Insight you dont need Warmth investment.....
YOu are much better off adding to teleport or increasing ES/TK or even pumping a secondary damage skill if you need that. Too many good ways to handle energy in this game.
xXxfunbobxXx
12-02-2008, 17:23
Even without Insight you dont need Warmth investment.....
YOu are much better off adding to teleport or increasing ES/TK or even pumping a secondary damage skill if you need that. Too many good ways to handle energy in this game.
im jsut saying if u max tk cold mastery orb and tele the left over points can go warmth :-p
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