View Full Version : Botting Poll
Why do you bot?
Be careful, you just might have issues due to your answers! I posted this just to show what I pulled off IIRC 3 times that got botters banned from here. Botters are allowed to come here, but if they trade here and are proven botters they get banned.
The poll is PUBLIC.....um, I failed to mention that in my previous ones.....SO
DO NOT ANSWER THIS POLL UNLESS YOU BOT!!!
Wouldnt shock me a bit if I still got one in this one even with the warnings!
SilverDin
30-01-2008, 20:28
Haven't botted or played in the game in 3 (thinking it might be 4?) years, although those 4 reasons seem valid to me.
Diablo 2 is a PvE game, I was in it for the PvP. Botting took care of gathering resources to trade for PvP items.
Believe it or not, ears didn't buy 15 maxers.
STINGER, let'er rip.
-Narcism
Because clicking the mouse myself is hard.
SilverDin
30-01-2008, 21:49
Narc that is a shame...
I had a giant paragraph typed up, but here:
STINGER, did you, yourself, lose anything from someone else botting? Or is it something that just ethically bothers you? Is it because someone is unethically gaining more then you?
I bot pretty much all the time. Anyone that has played with me knows that I'm not really there, it's just a bot running the Myk subroutines.
I do it because it's something I feel I exceed at.
It is amazing how well your bot communicates with real people MYK, you must send me that script
bah i was typing some stuff but we dont need another botting debate, its only useful every few months on the community forum to remind people its bad, and I think we already got our quota for while.
bah i was typing some stuff but we dont need another botting debate, its only useful every few months on the community forum to remind people its bad, and I think we already got our quota for while.
Agree but I must answer Narc
I had a giant paragraph typed up, but here:
STINGER, did you, yourself, lose anything from someone else botting? Or is it something that just ethically bothers you? Is it because someone is unethically gaining more then you?
Yep, every item I have ever found of value was devalued due to botters and dupers. Not to mention the lag created by them that have caused many people to loose characters.
Every 15 maxer I found legitly traded cheaper than it would of if there were never bots or dupers.
First Windforce I found I couldnt even trade as it had been devalued soo much I just made a Zon for it and then she ended up with an Eaglehorn also as I found one later that wouldnt trade well either. My first legitly found VEX had hundreds if not thousands of duped ones to compete wiht let alone the botted ones.
Every character I ran the ladder against that botted or duped had the advantage on me in items. I will argue that you dont need Enigmas to win ladder races as that is a fact, but in the end it is still an advantage to have one in many ways not just the teleport.
Must I continue? Nope, i shall try and stop.
Stinger I actually disagree. What killed the value of WF for me was faith and 1.10. The bow is just not as strong as it used to be. Most items that have high value are PvP items, and unfortunately the big nerf to bowzons (guided piercing/stronger monsters) and the addition of faith made WF completely useless for PvP and second best in PvM.
As for dupes,
I agree that they completely devalued runewords, but those rare legit uniques/charms remain very luxurious. To prove my point, compare the price of a legit 45 pcomb life rolled by someone trusted on the trade forums to the same lifer traded in a pub. Anyway what I'm trying to say is that godly legits are still worth a lot, you just have to know where to trade them.
You are not the only one bro, no one wants to use those damn dupes, that's
why legit still fetches a great price especially on the forums where people trust you.
P.S. No comments about botting, worst thing ever happened to D2. I still remember the times when you could make as many games as you wanted without that ****ing failed to join message.
Master Zap
30-01-2008, 23:53
Bot!?! , We aint need no stinking bots!
I'm a d2 machine, I dont need to be on anymore then I am already. Anyone using these forums doesnt appear to have to work that hard to obtain their ISO stuff. It's not always instant, but eventually someone finds whats your looking for.
Boo on cheaters/botters
(but I'll still use and trade for any item that I happen to need)
ah well It is fun to beat the dead horse from time to time :/
My biggest peeve?
The chicken hack using people on Hardcore. I mean wtf!?! the point is Death is hanging over your head. Go back to sc if your afraid to lose a char
xbananaxX
.hc
"How can life get anybetter then beer and Hc?"
.sc
" teh noobs!"
SilverDin
31-01-2008, 00:12
Agree but I must answer Narc
Yep, every item I have ever found of value was devalued due to botters and dupers.
Agreed. Now here's the surprise, in theory, that item you found would still be tradeable for an item of equal value, regardless if there are 10 on the realm or 10000000 of them.
Your windforce might have been worth a grandfather, had there have not been any dupes. And with dupes, your windforce should still get you a grandfather.
Not to mention the lag created by them that have caused many people to loose characters.
Have you personally lost any characters directly associated with lag that you know was caused by botters? I don't expect you to, you ARE an advocate of ultra-safe play as I've read in other threads.
Every character I ran the ladder against that botted or duped had the advantage on me in items. I will argue that you dont need Enigmas to win ladder races as that is a fact, but in the end it is still an advantage to have one in many ways not just the teleport.
Must I continue? Nope, i shall try and stop.
Let's put dupers aside, since I'm not here to defend them.
Botters have an advantage. I'll give you that.
Unemployed people have an advantage in ladder play.
Insomniacs have an advantage in ladder play.
Account sharing has an advantage in ladder play.
Necromancers have an advantage in ladder play.
Laser mice have an advantage.
Good internet connections have an advantage.
Good computers have an advantage.
Your careful and mindful play has an advantage over them, (I haven't called you out on getting a lobotomy though).
PS, when has ladder been important?
Impossible to prove that the particular second of lag was due to a bot or a duper, but the fact is there is never a time the relm is up that a bot isnt running causing lag. Hell I cant actually prove that either but i think we could both agree it is a pretty damn accurate guess, so with that said, yes I have lost guys in lag, had friends loose them in lag.
BTW, I do NOT play "ultra-safe" i just dont play "ultra-stupid" I race through this game a a rather speedy pace when I want to, and I do all the quests and go to all the areas most players never go due to fear of death. I dont get rushes.....that is far from "ultra-safe" and i dont stop on new ladders to farm Meph to replace my Stealth BP on my Sin i go straight thru the game and replace it later or if I find something.
I dont use SS's and other PDR gear, all my Sorcs are Viper/Wizzy/Whitstans which is far from "ultra-safe".
Havent made many duelers, but all mine were legit self found gear....they were all in Classic, never got into it in LOD it was just too much stuff to deal with.
I tele baal with decent sorcs, never had an HoTo, never really ever MFed with BO unless someone jsut happened to feel like being there running elsewhere. Not having certain items never stopped me from MFing I just played accordingly.
I like to be prepared to the best of my ability with what I can scrounge up and I have learned to get things done with crap that people generally throw away. That is not "ultra-safe" by any means.
Soloed Hell Ancients with my Sin Trappers and IIRC all of them had PDiamond Tower, +3 Trap Claw and Stealth Breast Plate with rares i gambled/found and IIRC I have been lucky and found Nats boots along the way each time.....you call that "ultra-safe"???
Come now...
BTW, the ladder in 1.10+ has been important to me. the Ladder in 1.09 was too easy to get 99 wiht Cows and never needing resists and having Nova Sorcs and Javas that just killed cows by looking at them while you could basically stand still anywhere and jsut leech the exp.
I played Classic a great deal and there you just dont get 99's there is always a ladder race, even the day they reset. I sort of left Classic at 1.10 and went to LOD and only dabble there occasionally since.
come back zinc
31-01-2008, 00:43
Stinger I actually disagree. What killed the value of WF for me was faith and 1.10. The bow is just not as strong as it used to be. Most items that have high value are PvP items, and unfortunately the big nerf to bowzons (guided piercing/stronger monsters) and the addition of faith made WF completely useless for PvP and second best in PvM.
Does not the existence of dupe and bot runes make Faith more common, causing the value of your WF to decrease? Seems like an offshoot of botting to me. Bots are most likely how the shops get their initial goods as well as maintain stores of dupeable items.
*sigh*
Silver "Your windforce might have been worth a grandfather, had there have not been any dupes. And with dupes, your windforce should still get you a grandfather."
(1) If there are 10,000 available, it will be worth fewer Pgems or runes.
(2) Not everything gets duped.
(3) What if I don't want a duped GF, or anything else for that matter?
SilverDin
31-01-2008, 00:51
Impossible to prove that the particular second of lag was due to a bot or a duper, but the fact is there is never a time the relm is up that a bot isnt running causing lag.
There is never a time the realm is up and someone isn't creating games manually and mf'ing by hand. People did Pindleskin by hand, their games caused just as much lag as a botter's game.
Rest of the post about how safe you play.
Okay.
BTW, the ladder in 1.10+ has been important to me. the Ladder in 1.09 was too easy to get 99 wiht Cows and never needing resists and having Nova Sorcs and Javas that just killed cows by looking at them while you could basically stand still anywhere and jsut leech the exp.
I played Classic a great deal and there you just dont get 99's there is always a ladder race, even the day they reset. I sort of left Classic at 1.10 and went to LOD and only dabble there occasionally since.
The ladder in 1.10+ has been important to you. But you've only dabbled in it occasionally? That seems strange. How important is this ladder to you again?
The part of your post (that doesn't exist) that addressed my other points.
I said other interesting things too! Looking forward to your comments. ;)
Does not the existence of dupe and bot runes make Faith more common, causing the value of your WF to decrease? Seems like an offshoot of botting to me. Bots are most likely how the shops get their initial goods as well as maintain stores of dupeable items.
*sigh*
Silver "Your windforce might have been worth a grandfather, had there have not been any dupes. And with dupes, your windforce should still get you a grandfather."
(1) If there are 10,000 available, it will be worth fewer Pgems or runes.
(2) Not everything gets duped.
(3) What if I don't want a duped GF, or anything else for that matter?
Err what i meant was that WF got cheaper mostly because it became useless for pvp and crap for pvm. Even if runes wouldn't get duped/botted wf would still be worth pgems since it can longer make a viable char. I remember the beginning of 1.10, when there was still no faith, wf just wasn't wanted in any trade games, it was a weak bow that could barely get you through a1 hell on 8 players.
IMO faith increased the prices of all bowzon items since before faith, bowzons weren't even a (relatively) viable char in 1.10.
cynicalcat1
31-01-2008, 01:44
i play this game for fun, so i do not bot.i don't like botting and wish blizzard could do something about it.
SilverDin
31-01-2008, 02:22
Does not the existence of dupe and bot runes make Faith more common, causing the value of your WF to decrease? Seems like an offshoot of botting to me. Bots are most likely how the shops get their initial goods as well as maintain stores of dupeable items.
*sigh*
Silver "Your windforce might have been worth a grandfather, had there have not been any dupes. And with dupes, your windforce should still get you a grandfather."
(1) If there are 10,000 available, it will be worth fewer Pgems or runes.
(2) Not everything gets duped.
(3) What if I don't want a duped GF, or anything else for that matter?
(1) And those Pgems and runes are used as currency to buy other things of equal value to the original windforce, similar to my statement. Windforce -> 2 pgems -> Grandfather or Windforce -> 10398482948 pgems -> Grandfather.
(2) Not talking about duped.
(3) Then the rareness of your WF is irrelevant.
I dont bot but 2 of my friends that started the same time has botted loads, and still ive gotten far richer than both of them doing good old Mf runs and trading. Its ended up so that ive given them gear for there chars and so on ^^
Bot!?! , We aint need no stinking bots!
(but I'll still use and trade for any item that I happen to need)
Contradict yourself much? :wink3:
Sasuke42
31-01-2008, 07:58
Botting is a violation of the games TOS, and has wreaked havoc on trade values in the game. HRs are worth nothing in comparison to what they would be without bots. Add in duping and you make it damn hard to accumulate wealth legitamitely.
It also is relatively easy to stop duping/scripting/botting etc. however blizzard doesn't care about diablo2 anymore and they have left such a bad taste in my mouth that I won't be buying another blizzard game. If you can't take the time to find hacks, evaluate their code and find a way to stop them you shouldn't bother having online servers for your games as far as I'm concerned.
AgentMarth
31-01-2008, 10:29
^ but the fact that we still have those servers is a godsend to me.
STIlNGER, I am sorely disappointed. Where is the option "I eat botters"? Well? Well?
(and as a sidenote to those who think I did finally cave in to cheating: I do not, nor have ever, and haven't touched DII in about a year and a half ^_^... I just want to mess with STlNGER's poll.......)
I find it funny that there's people that go on these horse beatings and they don't even play at all.
What is the dead horse?
The dead horse is a disagreement among players on the definition of how this game is supposed to be played.
And as long as people continue to play this game, the dead horse will not go unbeaten by either party.
Krazeyivan
31-01-2008, 13:38
Could you imagine Diablo 2 with no hacks or cheats or botting - it would be amazing.
People who put time and effort and get the high runes or great items would be rewarded.
I suspect only a handful would have something like BOTD.
It would self-right the ship - Hardcore would be great, people flooding back - and no chickening, as mentioned its Hardcore...
In reality blizzard would never spend Big bucks on a game of this age - they would I suspect be secretly delighted if the game died so the servers can be moved over to WOW (which I have never played!)
This game put Blizzard on the map - and their treatment of it is like a old relative they never visit.
Yes its beating a dead horse mentioning all of this - but it does feel good! :P
ZappaFan
31-01-2008, 13:46
This isn't even a horse any more, it's a totally unrecognizable little pile of dust that was long ago kicked and ground into the pavement.
Not even enough of the carcass remains for the least picky buzzard to pick over...
I started 1.10 in Classic, spent IIRC 3 months there, got my acct stolen when I was #2 on the ladder thru the new "acct registration we tried but failed to help prevent accouts from being stolen) deal our Blizzard buddies tried to add. While it was stolen I put another in the Top 10 on Classic, then i got my acct back and restored and had (2) in the Top 20 and another one in the Top 50.
Then i got bored and I ran the ladder in LOD and started 3 months or so late and still put a Sin in the Top 10 Sins and only stopped due to TPPK and not being able to lvl in public anymore. You can find her listed on Blizzards site somewhere. Cheats in general put most the 97-99's on that ladder. I know for a fact several of the Sorcs on that ladder were Pindle bots, and I forget the Barbs name but not only did he die like 8 times at around 95-97 I think he still hit 99 and every time he had the same gear all over again including an Enigma and I witnessed IIRC (3) of his deaths where he got no loot! .
1.10 S2 I also had a ladder runner up until the new TPPK came out that sent me private and then I eventually got into Guild Wars Alpha and went there and stopped lvling.
Narc, you know as well as I do that bots/dupes/hacks in general hurt this game and do indeed affect me and other players directly. The choice you made to bot or whatever else is simply a choice you made. Why you feel you need to try and justify that is beyond me. You know it was wrong, you know you cheated, you know you were part of the degrading of this game. Deal with it and stop trying to justify your pathetic mistake.
BTW, comparing Windforce to Grandfather is only trying to use what is available to show an equal downgrading of items which is the same thing most pathetic botters do. They attempt to show that they in fact actually help players as they make all rare items more common so we can all get them easier. But the fact still remains, that if there were no bots, and I wanted a bunch of 20 life smalls and I wanted to trade my legitly found WF for it I would get a bunch, but with bots I cannot.
A SOJ, Shako, even OHM is pretty darn valuable without hacks, with them you end up wiht 12 Shakos you cant trade and a SOJ that is worth PGems and an OHM that has hundreds or thousands of dupes to contend with so virtually untradeable.
I dont want botter items, I dont want dupes. I "try" to only deal with those I know are legit. The market value of items is set by the what the public gives for it even around here where most of us try to trade for legit stuff.
Furthermore, I wont be posting in this thread again, I made the post just due to some other post and sure as hell didnt wish to get into another debate with someone that knows they did wrong but will go to any extent to try and show he didnt. Why? Need to save face in a game you simply dont care about anymore? Need to justify yourself so others around here dont look at you badly? What?
No need to answer as they will all be pathetic, the only good answer is just shutting up and taking your medicine!
LuckyDwarf
31-01-2008, 18:07
Things I bot . . .
Diablo II
Diabloii.net Forums
Work
College
Life Support - I hate having to feed myself manually, drinking, taking medicine, et cetera
And the all important Bot.. bot to run all my bots in a tidy manner. I actually just exist inside of a cocoon, coming out once a day to check on the state of my bots and brag to others on the awesomeness of my botting. I especially like to brag to cover up my shortcomings in all aspects of life. That, coincidentally, is the reason I tppk people. With a bot, of course. There is nothing like tppking someone to make up for the fact that I have a tiny penis and that no one likes me because I'm a whiny arse.
Lucky
Hp_Sauce
31-01-2008, 18:53
Things I bot . . .
Diablo II
Diabloii.net Forums
Work
College
Life Support - I hate having to feed myself manually, drinking, taking medicine, et cetera...
gib bot for college plz~!!1
-hps
come back zinc
31-01-2008, 19:27
After a little thought...
The only argument from a botter I would ever accept as valid, and this is debatable, would be that there is no difference between a bot and a person. At the very least they could get metaphysical about the whole thing.
f you could get your monkey to play Diablo for you while you're out (everyone has a monkey), would it be botting? If you could train any animal, for that matter, would it be botting? A bot is a 3rd party program, but what if you made a Robot that used optical cues, and interacted with your keyboard and mouse? Is that botting? I would think so, but it certainly is open for discussion.
But, aren't we all just bots? We go about our daily lives, repeating the same actions over and over in hope of deriving some benefit.
I'm not saying I support botting. I just think botters could argue their position a little better (though I'm certain the majority are unfamilar with ethical deliberation).
Master Zap
31-01-2008, 19:47
[QUOTE=come back zinc;6219123]After a little thought...
But, aren't we all just bots? We go about our daily lives, repeating the same actions over and over in hope of deriving some benefit.
QUOTE]
Einstein ,wiseman that he was said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "
I could use a little more "attract" and whole lot more goldfind on this "bot"
I play life in untwinked mode. Would have been nice to have had that silver spoon at times.
An argument could be presented well with your premise. The problem lies with that fact that the TOS state no third party apps for play, so that rules out the bots reguardless of "is it ethical"
If you could train a monkey to play, then power to you. I wouldn't hold it against someone for having trained an animal to effectively play for them. I bet if there was more monkey's playing, the collective IQ and conversation would greatly improve on the realms.
Banana picture for your soj would be a frequent trade lol :evil:
LuckyDwarf
31-01-2008, 20:54
I bet if there was more monkey's playing, the collective IQ and conversation would greatly improve on the realms.
*Praise*
Lucky
come back zinc
31-01-2008, 20:55
Einstein, wiseman that he was, said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. "
I told my GF that one time as she was repeadetly trying to get the DVD player (whose remote we no longer had) to change options, but there was no way to move the cursor around without the remote (it was a cheap POS).
We're all guilty of this; it's human nature. Most of the time we repeat actions because we believe that it will help us see what's missing and eventually correct it. Insanity kicks in when, after exhausting any and all logical options, we posit what we want in place of what's really there.
So, back to the original statement, would using another computer, whose inputs are tied to the keyboard, monitor and mouse feeds, to make and play Pindle games be considered botting? Is botting a term that only covers 3rd party apps? Where do we draw a line? I'm just trying to get this thread away from senseless bickering and into a more philosophical discussion, if anyone is up for it.
Valar-Wrath
31-01-2008, 21:00
I made the post just due to some other post and sure as hell didnt wish to get into another debate with someone that knows they did wrong but will go to any extent to try and show he didnt.
Right, Stinger.
Where are those Cowboys? How about those hapless Giants? Hum, Romo wont crumble?
I WAS going to let it be but you had to show up and be an ***!
would using another computer, whose inputs are tied to the keyboard, monitor and mouse feeds, to make and play Pindle games be considered botting?
that is the first step in the machines taking over.
Could you imagine Diablo 2 with no hacks or cheats or botting - it would be amazing.
See, that's the thing. The game has never been that way. The second people started playing they changed it, and it's never ever been anywhere close to what it was once supposed to be.
Expecting it to be something more/else is like expecting politicians to not be evil and greedy. They've never been anything but.
The massive difference here is what is and what could be.
As long as you beat the rules set up by Blizz and they dont change them to cover what you do I could care less even if it did bother me directly when it comes to me evaluating you, but that dont mean i wont gripe to Blizz!
come back zinc
01-02-2008, 00:54
See, that's the thing. The game has never been that way. The second people started playing they changed it, and it's never ever been anywhere close to what it was once supposed to be.
Expecting it to be something more/else is like expecting politicians to not be evil and greedy. They've never been anything but.
The massive difference here is what is and what could be.
Sounds like a Zack de la Rocha Bullet in the Head speech:
"When I say no more lies...I'm telling you that we're not hear to celebrate this lie that is Christmas. With images of Santa, this prosperous white man, bringing presents and good hope to the communities of our countries is a fat lie. And is one installed only to legitimize the falsehood which is white supremecy. So no more lies...no more lies..."
Not exactly the one I was looking for, but close enough.
Sounds like a Zack de la Rocha Bullet in the Head speech:
"When I say no more lies...I'm telling you that we're not hear to celebrate this lie that is Christmas. With images of Santa, this prosperous white man, bringing presents and good hope to the communities of our countries is a fat lie. And is one installed only to legitimize the falsehood which is white supremecy. So no more lies...no more lies..."
Not exactly the one I was looking for, but close enough.
That guy is great. He's someone that I look up to, who maintained a political charge in his music without it becoming cheesy or lame.
Unfortunately, I was thinking a lot about Lenny Bruce whilst writing my replies. I wonder if Zack has read much about Mr. Bruce.
Valar-Wrath
01-02-2008, 03:59
Where are those Cowboys?
Same place the Colts are.
MoUsE_WiZ
01-02-2008, 11:13
See, that's the thing. The game has never been that way.[/B]
Lies. I think it took about a week before Techwarrior released hostile anywhere.
i voted for them all, just for the heck of it.
Lies. I think it took about a week before Techwarrior released hostile anywhere.
Which would imply that the game was already being hacked since it came out.
Not that that matters much in the end.
Each new ladder since the addition of ladder and non-ladder has given many of us a pretty cool short amount of time without too much crap to deal with. Sure, the dupers are there just lookin for something worth duping and the bots start running pretty quickly but it takes time to actually get the game corrupted. Blizz has done minor this here and there, but they always work around it, my guess is the game just cannot be coded to stop many thing just because its old tech and costs too much to fix, but they have however stopped several TPPK skills in the past and really, that one is by far the most impacting on the game and they could fix them all to eliminate TPPK and THAT is why I have no intentions of every buying another Blizz game.
I could actually ignore most hacks if they would just stop TPPK. Hell I may of never fully quit this game at any time, just short to long breaks if TPPK was stopped! DII, as long as most of us have played it gets pretty boring if you play alone or in real small groups all the time, having the ability to get in a PUB game and meet or see other people without the hazard of a TPPK hack can go a long way to relive that boredom.
Hell, its not even "safe" to go into dueling games and duel someone might drop a TPPK on you. Even in trading games things happen like Rouges Enchanted killing people in town (if that is still doable which I think is).
Bots/MH/Dupes...etc all suck and hurt the game but believe me there is one, TPPK I hate beyond all others.
come back zinc
01-02-2008, 17:14
That guy is great. He's someone that I look up to, who maintained a political charge in his music without it becoming cheesy or lame.
Unfortunately, I was thinking a lot about Lenny Bruce whilst writing my replies. I wonder if Zack has read much about Mr. Bruce.
I would assume as much; they were both in the same line of work.
Where are those Cowboys? How about those hapless Giants? Hum, Romo wont crumble?
I WAS going to let it be but you had to show up and be an ***!
That one really hurt stinger... Way to send me into a depression.
Valar-Wrath
05-02-2008, 07:45
hapless Giants
Hapless, indeed.
RabiDLectraL
05-02-2008, 18:31
Where's the "I dont Bot" option?
To me - botting seems to take away from the fun of the game. If I'm MFing, its the greatest feeling when I get a gold I've been waiting for and then ID it... I'd hate to just have it in my inv one day.
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