MF "theory x" vs "theory y", which one?!?

[KuroKenkaku]

"Theory x":

There is no such thing as optimum MF. The more the better. As for needing infinity more, I'd recommend getting a CoH first. The resists are a huge bonus. (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=6208947)

What the above tells me about that person's MF tactics:
"More MF = Best MF strategy."


"Theory y":

anything >300% MF works, anything extra would affect your killing speed and slow you down. (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=6208947)

What the above tells me about that person's MF tactics:
"Have high MF, but don't exceed 300, because you will be weighed down by a lot of MF and lose killing power (I believe the person didn't type what they were thinking, if not they would not have added the part about "anything extra would affect your killing speed and slow you down.")."



So which is it?!?


I hear there is some MF reduction disparity when you go over 250% MF, so I think that would be why "theory y" is in firm belief of that, but then again the theory could be a big pile of...ya, you know.


Sorry if this has been discussed (more than likely) before, but I didn't see anything about this in the FAQs (unless it is in the complicated data that I saw on there).

[phool]

They're both pretty much correct. The more the better but an increase in mf has to be weighted against a decrease in killing speed. The difference between 300 and 450 mf may make almost no difference in run speed to a meph glitching blizz sorc (if it doesn't drop a fcr bp) but is very likely to on a pits clearing hammerdin. Of course the difference between 400 and 300 mf is smaller than the difference between 300 and 200... which is also smaller than the difference between 200 and 100. How much you should aim for depends on your build and what you're running as well as personal preference.#


I would certainly get an infinity before coh though, the latter is a crap version of an upped um'd viper wheras infinity kinda triples or more some builds' effectiveness - javazons and light sorc, probably 2 of the 3 most effective pvm builds in existness (the third, a hdin, needs eni instead).

[Xdeathfire]

This are some stats:

200MF: 111% more uniques
300MF: 136%
Gain: 25

400MF: 153
500MF: 166
Gain: 13

900MF: 195
1000MF: 200
Gain: 5

The MF bonus decreases significantly so I'd agree with theory y. Try to get as much MF up until like 300ish, afterwards, focus more on killing faster simply because getting those extra MF will give you so little while more speed will consistently give you good returns

[stfrn]

I'd also suggest to start to ignore MF completely, and max killing speed to get socketables faster. Then, if you can get 200+mf without slowing down much, switch to mfing. Otherwise you'd likely to get more trade value with socketables.

[maiku]

Both theories actually complement each other. In general, the sweet spot for MF exists around 200-300% MF. If you look at charts of % MF vs. actual chances of uniques dropped, diminishing returns start to set in quickly, which is why many people, including myself, target around 250-300% MF on most of our MF chars. Once you start to go past 300% MF, many MF builds require you to make more sacrifices and cuts in equipment, which start to hurt power and kill speed, which then hurt MF, etc. I've seen people loaded up with like 700% MF or more (Isted weapons, monarchs, etc.), who are fragile and weak. That seems counterintuitive.

It does depend largely on your build and what skills you use. If you have something like a Fishymancer, you can load him up fairly high (400%+) and not hurt his kill speed too much, because his skills (skeletons, golem, Corpse Explosion) + Merc don't suffer too much, you can prebuff summons on switch, and he has a lot of protection, whereas a Hammerdin or Sorceress can suffer badly, by losing a lot of resists, power, life, etc. For boss-running builds, a nice "trick" you can use is to to load up your Merc with a lot of MF, like a Skullder's Ire and Stealskull, and then let him get the last poke, with an "equivalent" MF that would be high, as if you'd been carrying, let's say, 400-500%. You might be carrying only 200-300% on your person, but still keeping overall power and survivability high. Another char you could potentially load up would be a MF/Gold-find Barbarian running Travincal, where you let the Merc do all the killing and you collect gold and hork bodies.

For my MF chars, I have the following requirements:

1. Quick and powerful. I like to be able to complete areas or kill bosses fast, so I can get new sorties underway. The faster the better. This equals more MF.
2. Within the sweet spot (200-300% MF) or better if the build can handle it.
3. Versatile and flexible enough to handle what comes.

I usually use tailored builds for the areas I like to run, because I run different areas or bosses for items. For Chaos Sanctuary, I use a Frostmaiden who has high safety, survivability, and crowd-busting power. She has high resists and no fear of IM or elemental attacks. For Pit and WSK, I find my Fishymancer and Dtail/DS hybrid Sin work very well. They can scavenge for elite socketables, the occasional uniques, or set items. Both can move fast through large areas but would suffer if they ran CS (IM issues + Merc deaths). For Andariel or Meph, I use Sorceresses, like my Frost Nova Sorc or Hydra Sorceress, because they have Teleport, Static, etc. and crunch bosses pretty fast with their skills + Merc.

[helvete]

I have more than 800%MF on my pindlerunner. Why? Because pindle dies just as easy.

However, she wouldn't last long against.... err anything.

[phool]

pindlerunners do need some frw though for getting through town. For example if someone was wearing goldwrap and ptravs and had no sources of frw you would almost certainly benefit from switching them out for 25mf 30 frw boots and a 1.07 mav belt imo... overall chance of getting a unique decreases by just 1.03% but 1+ seconds shaved off time.

[stephan]

War travelers already have 25% FRW, so rares do not have much to offer there. I'd simply use a harmony bow on switch if I wanted to move faster around town.

[krischan]

Also, diminishing returns are less severe for set items and rares. The more the better, unless killing speed suffers. The optimum MF bonus depends on the build and the MF targets. Sorc vs. Pindle: MF items everywhere.

[helvete]

pindlerunners do need some frw though for getting through town. For example if someone was wearing goldwrap and ptravs and had no sources of frw you would almost certainly benefit from switching them out for 25mf 30 frw boots and a 1.07 mav belt imo... overall chance of getting a unique decreases by just 1.03% but 1+ seconds shaved off time.
That's a good idea with the 1.07 mav belt. I recently aquired one, and getting more of them should be very easy. I'll keep my 49% travs tho.

Harmony on switch isn't a bad idea either, as I only use the switch to get FCR (occy + 35% spirit = 63% breakpoint reached) and since it's only 3 teleports, harmony might be a better solution.