The Idea of Low Level Dueling.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

I ask those who enjoy L.L.D.

Why do you prefer it over HLD?

Its not like its less item dependent and more skill dependent. In fact, with the decreasd set of variables, it makes a build much more item dependent and less skill dependent.

It is a playing ground where everyone has very similar items (the best possible at their own lvl) and number of builds are laregly limited.

To me, as a lld virgin, I see it as players not handling the randomness that HLD provides well and wanting some sort of nice little controlled dueling environment.

by controlled I mean;

very controlled varying mods on items
very controlled tempo
very controlled possible builds
etc.

Not mocking lld players at all, this is a game for one to enjoy and we can do whatever we want. I'm asking, is this what attracts you to lld? Or is there some another hidden appeal I'm failing to see? :azn:

[thepandafactor]

i'm not into lld anymore, but I have a lot of friends who LLD and I used to LLD in 1.09.

There's several appeals:
- Not using the same items as everyone else, instead looking for godly rares/magicals
- Being able to pk lvl 80s and stuff with lvl 30s is good for a few laughs sometimes
- sometimes people get bored with HLD and prefer to use their lld spells
- people wanna be "different" and paint their faces white and wear black trenchcoats and slit their wrists and lld.

[Dennis_KoreanGuy]

i'm not into lld anymore, but I have a lot of friends who LLD and I used to LLD in 1.09.

There's several appeals:
- Not using the same items as everyone else, instead looking for godly rares/magicals
- Being able to pk lvl 80s and stuff with lvl 30s is good for a few laughs sometimes
- sometimes people get bored with HLD and prefer to use their lld spells
- people wanna be "different" and paint their faces white and wear black trenchcoats and slit their wrists and lld.
Several things to disagree with here.

I find a noob 80 sorc getting killed by a specially geared lv 30 charger, sad, and charger laughing about it, pathetic.

Very viable idea. Though you can't ignore kick hybrids or zeal for hld for that matter. Its always been there, widely used.

no comment. :tongue:

I want to make a doublel throw lld barb.

[DayDream]

A level 30 fury/charger/hammerdin can kill good gear level 80+ but doesn't happen so much as level 80's have a better mobility (teleport via enigma)

[mystified]

to me it is somewhat of freedom from same lame hld with same lame equip with same lame set up.
you know what i means when you see 99% of hammers, 99% smiters, 99% V/T, ovdr 80% BvC, etc have same set up. Every single one of them.
and the fact is that its not gonna change. all will be teleporting, grief wields same old chars with slightly different charm set ups etc and think town guarding is best method of pk after nk-ing lol

in same sense, you can say a lot of lld is more item depenant but not as much as hld. in fact a good lld will have a lot more variance than that of hld. for example, rare/magic jewels and equips which are pretty different to that of hld where ...wel it is virtually same cookie cutter set up except very very few classes, and they don't tends to do very well. Even a sin is becoming somewhat cookie cuter build (or has it become that already?)
also can you realy say skill based duels in hld? yes i've seen smiter with lifetab with exile lose to a bvc :rolleyes:, but that's just poor noob smiter. in most cases better items means higher chance of winning anyway.
i'd say due to lack of teleport, lld would have somewhat more control and skill dependant as well as items...those damn set of charms and jewels..

[Rabbitz]

Hott rares my friend. Hott rares indeed.

[BoNeFeTisH]

I would say, that lld has a taste of old school pvp with such things as: being sneaky, using landscape, you can hardly fully absorb elemental damage or be completely invincible to certain attacks, no high level godly stuff etc. Well it can be fun if you have a nostalgia for the past glory days of previous patches or you are simply tired of having almot everything this game can bring you:cry:-) I also like to duel friends having the same equipment and stats that we used to play in 1.09. builds. Burizons are still fun to play-)!:smiley:

[brokensvt]

Its not like its less item dependent and more skill dependent. In fact, with the decreasd set of variables, it makes a build much more item dependent and less skill dependent.

In most cases, yes. It's an item-based game, so this is as it should be. I like to think of LLD as item-based and skill-based(the dueler's skill, not class skills) rather than mod-based(*cough* Pub HLD *cough*).

It is a playing ground where everyone has very similar items (the best possible at their own lvl) and number of builds are laregly limited.

In some cases, sure. The most notable example would be level 18 Zealots. I don't use an 18 Zealot, I use a couple of level 30's that you rarely see duplicated. I've seen several other "unique" builds as well.

To me, as a lld virgin, I see it as players not handling the randomness that HLD provides well and wanting some sort of nice little controlled dueling environment.



No offense, and I know this is the PVP forums, but HLD pubbing gets on my nerves. It reminds me of a 10-year old driving a monster truck in rush hour traffic.

[Zangeif]

The main reason that I like LLD is actually searching for the near impossible to find items in order to perfect your character. Anyone can buy 9 x 45 lifers for their HLD, but building a top of the line LLD character takes many years. Character building is my favorite aspect of the game - I enjoy it more than actually dueling.

Another reason that I prefer LLD is that players don't BM, and don't use TMC. The LLD community is almost all GM players.

I also STRONGLY disagree with your belief that the LLD environment is more controlled than HLD. The difference between the strength of characters is much more dependant on gear. All HLDs can afford the same cheap runewords, and the difference between the effectiveness of a 399/30/15 COA and a 398/30/15 COA is negligible, despite the huge difference in price. In LLD, finding the perfect items actually helps your character win duels instead of just looking pretty when you post it in the trophy room.

Lastly, dueling without teleport is fun. You should try it sometime, I think you would agree. I also HLD often and I know it well. I think that the actual way that LLD duels play out is much more strategic and interesting.

[neptunius]

- lld is simply something else. If people get bored from highlvl pvp, they create new rules, new restrictions, new limits in order to experience something new. I guess this is why lld developed in the first place...
- lld still has some kind of an oldschool, pre 1.10 feeling to play pvp (no enigma, no cta)
- because llds are kept on low lvl on purpose, there's always the character of PK in the background, which is also part of the lld-nature. Nobody can deny it - it's fun to kill chars with higher lvls... stabbing poor lvl80 mf sorces in the back while she's playing pvm is evil ofc, but that's not how it should be anyway... TRUE pk always has to be a challenge, otherwise it's not fun.
- a main reason for several people to start lld today is (sadly), that they see a chance in lld to get noticed easier than in highlvl pvp (-> like "best char on realm"), because there are simply less people playing it.

[Zangeif]

- a main reason for several people to start lld today is (sadly), that they see a chance in lld to get noticed easier than in highlvl pvp (-> like "best char on realm"), because there are simply less people playing it.

I'm pretty sure my most expensive lld and vlld have cost more than any hld chars.

I've spent 5k fg on a jewel before. It's definately NOT easy to be the best LLD character on my realm.

[Master Zap]

I play on hardcore only, and I enjoy llding and low level pk'ing. Equipping and leveling a high level is tedious and sucks to lose a char with that much invested in it.

LLD has all the fun and all the convenience without so much risk. It does have a different feel to it for sure.

[disc]

with lld and mld i find it more community based than hld.
generally its more well manered. (oc its not perfect).
its more controlable than hld. ie lvl restrictionson games if required.
no one has grief so its more varied in the weapons people use.
no enigma means its actually worth making a decent bowazon.
lld and mlders have been playing the game some time so its less likely to get the 10 year olds like you do in hld.
there are less smiters because theres no exile or grief.
theres alternate builds in lld and mld eg fissure druids that you dont see in hld.
its quicker to make a 9, 18, 29, 39 or 49 than it is to make a lvl 96 hammerdin. (i hate doing baal runs dont you?).
rares can actually out perform rws in lld and mld. so more style points.

its more fun to duel lld or mld than hld imo due to the reasons above.

fun being the important factor in all this for me.

i see the question as RE: the idea of high level dueling. :smiley:

[charlengu]

I kind of agree with everyone else. One of the last things I did on BNet was try out level 18 duels. There is so much variety in LLD. Builds which would be completely useless in either HLD or MF can find their niche in LLD. Items which you would normally sell for gold will suddenly become useful. More importantly, for me at least, there are fewer duped items in LLD, probably because there has been no real established standard of perfection.

My only problem with LLD is that it has opened the door for idiots who make LLDers so that they can pop into Chaos Runs and flame the hell out of people for a chance at a cheap PK. It's ridiculous. So you are [sometimes] able to kill a high level character who either has nothing equipped yet or is geared for PvM. Congrats. If you win, you can flame the level 80s. If you lose, you can cry about your level or your lag. Either way, they'll call you stupid, but who cares? They're all noobs with no lives to begin with, right? /anti-LLD rant.

P.S. Regarding skill, people win duels in Diablo because of better builds, less lag, random luck, exploits, and better items. Skill is rarely an issue. If you beg to differ, try playing Guild Wars and compare.

[neptunius]

I'm pretty sure my most expensive lld and vlld have cost more than any hld chars.

I've spent 5k fg on a jewel before. It's definately NOT easy to be the best LLD character on my realm.
Not easy but defenitely easiER. And i don't even mean only to have the BEST character but more the "only getting noticed"...