BvS guide/build

[multifaros]

Hi, I'm thinking about starting a BvS char... But I have never had one and need some help. What stats/skills/items should i use? Is there a guide somewhere (for classic)? Searched on forums but found nothing :)

[sirwhere]

There's not much to it... usual whirlwind build with range 5 weapon, preferably a lance or bec, since these are easier to aim and have low reqs. Aim at level 9 or 14 increase speed (after +skills and battle command). Enough str/dex for gear, rest vita. Put some into leap so you can stun the soso if she passes next to you. The leap thing may be considered bad manners by some, so be warned.

As for gear, you need no-freeze equip, which gives you 2 choices: Hawmail and Death sash. Hawkmail lets you use full Iratha's set for the resists, while Death sash lets you use light armor. As for the rest of equip, use the best resists/str/dex/life/mana/AR stuff you can find. Cold res is particularly important... Keep a nokozan/hotspur in stash in case you come across a bad manners fireballer.

Play is the hardest part. Sosos are hard to catch, but these days they don't put into static field, so you can lean back and play defensive. Just dogde projectiles and wait for the right time to strike. Try and get a hang of the soso's teleport pattern in order to predict where she'll be next, and try to be there with a whirl ready. Good luck!

[multifaros]

Thx! What mastery is lance/pike? Lol... Polearm or spear? :)

[Lorg]

There is a speeder guide in the stickies.

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=342041

In conclusion rares are better than iratha's in terms of stacked resistances. Iratha's allowes more speed. Its a matter of preference.

Static would not do sorcs much good as it does not work in pvp as in pvm.


Predicting teleports gets easier with practise and vs noob sorcs speed is enough. Same goes vs clagging paladins.They will use passive charge and vigor to lag you. Pros dont come too close (they plant many hammers in different angles) but most palas clag right next to you and start throwing hammers. GOod tactic is not to chase them just stand and do mini whirls downwards, maybe bit to left. Often you will kill the invisible hammerdin. Who really does not expect an attack. Vigor is a sure sign that hey going to lag u...

Avoid log whirlwinds and do not ww lock since its rude.

Edit: Lance is spear. IMo you should go for lance, since good dmg becs are much more rare, eventhought they are more stylish...

[WarlockCC]

Personally I prefer the Iratha's/Hawkmail combi since you get up to 95% active cold resist rather then 75%. So 80% less damage then without the +max cold res. Mind you, you will need to seriously stack cold res to have enough to benifit from this max cold. This means you will need cold res on your weapon.

Hawkmail gives you 15% cold res and 15% to max cold res.
Full Iratha's gives you 65% cold res and 10% to max cold res
which totals 30% cold res in Hell.
Provided you can get Sigons boots(or other 40% cold res boots, preferably with 30frw, since sigons only has 20), 2 times 30% cold res rings, puts you at 130% cold res in Hell.
Asside from that you have your natural res. Presuming you get at least level 10, that'll put you on 55%, so 180% cold res in Hell.

If a sorc has level 20 cold mastery, +2 amu and a SoJ, she'll take 130% off your cold resist, leaving you a mere 55% in Hell. Hence the need for cold resist on your weapon. The maximum you can get on a weapon is 30% cold resist, which would put you on 85% cold resist.

Mind you, with that setup, all your other resists are at 70%, presuming you don't happen to have some other resists on your rings and/or boots. If you run into a firesorc, wear some hotspurs to get 95% fire resist. Hotspurs don't have frw, but because of the Iratha's and a descent amount of frw you will still be fine.

As Lorg already pointed out, the main difference between the two base setups.
- deaths sash, deaths gloves, Blinkbat/rare armor/hawkmail, rare helm, any amu
Easier to stack cold against sorcs with higher level cold mastery.
Deaths combi gives 15% res all, you can get 30% on your helm and 60%(20%pris and 40% stacked) on your amu. So 105% rather then the 65% Iratha's gives. I guess with such a setup you could look for 30% cold res gloves and some stats, rather then deaths.

- full Iratha's, hawkmail
Iratha's : 65% res all, 10% to all max res. 20frw, +25 dex, poison length reduced by 75% and 5 to min(which can be handy on those low min damage lances)
On a sidenote, Iratha's helm has between 205 and 225 defence at level 80, provided you wear another part of the set.

I guess deep down, I'm just an Iratha's fanboy. :)

Another cannot be frozen option is full Hsarus btw.

[Lorg]

Yep. My speeder this ladder is Ancient Axe speeder, using Irathas, hawk and only 231 dmg tri dura mana leech 23 cold res Axe.

Not uber, but hits the required resistances. (Rare gear vs fohhers needed)

AA works too 4 speeder. The range is only 4. If someone wants to try AA for bvs, now is your chance! A friend of mine is selling very kicky one. Stats are 189 ed (245 dmg) 16 cold res -30 req , deacent ar.

Aa only needs str so you can have lots of life on AA speeder And -30 req one is awesome...

[goomba]

I came across a 210 -30 req exe, and it had me mulling the temptation of making a shield wearing speeder. while one handed wouldn't be a huge amount of damage compared to a two handed ancient axe like lorg was talking about, the ability to seriously stack resistance via a shield is intriguing to me, and if I recall correctly, the exe has decent range...

[fledgeling]

on my realm most barbs use exes and they get shields vs sorcs

[futt]

I came across a 210 -30 req exe, and it had me mulling the temptation of making a shield wearing speeder. while one handed wouldn't be a huge amount of damage compared to a two handed ancient axe like lorg was talking about, the ability to seriously stack resistance via a shield is intriguing to me, and if I recall correctly, the exe has decent range...

Exe has range 3... but consider Nagas as a possible better candidate.

Naga also range 3, slightly higher top end, and much lower req compared to any sword (no dex needed).

Also allows to swap out for an Ancient Axe which is almost the same req-wise but range 4, and quite reasonable 2-H damage (better than using an Exe 2-handed).

Downside is the cost since you'll need 2 good weapons.

[goomba]

Exe has range 3... but consider Nagas as a possible better candidate.

Naga also range 3, slightly higher top end, and much lower req compared to any sword (no dex needed).

Also allows to swap out for an Ancient Axe which is almost the same req-wise but range 4, and quite reasonable 2-H damage (better than using an Exe 2-handed).

Downside is the cost since you'll need 2 good weapons.

and lack of having either vs. already having the -30req exe :thumbsup:

I'm still standing firm on not having made any additional characters. the din, one mule, and the glitcher that just hit 85.

[norvi11erogers]

Also keep in mind that a naga using barb looks ridiculous. Just straight up silly. Make the exe wielder!

[goomba]

Also keep in mind that a naga using barb looks ridiculous. Just straight up silly. Make the exe wielder!

anyone happen to know if the gnasher has a large range too?

that could be fun, a bvs / bleeder...

I seem to recall though that the gnasher was very low range from when I made my attempt at a cs / bleeder

[norvi11erogers]

According to the arreat summit, hand axes have range 1:

http://battle.net/diablo2exp/items/normal/axes.shtml

[sirwhere]

Baba + 1h axe = lolish style. Sad, but true. Techincally speaking, nagas are good weapons, though. Low reqs, dual weild vs soso, etc.

As for Iratha, I don't like it because hawkmail is heavy armor and drags you down. The run penalty subtracts from your increase speed skill directly and there's no way the 10% FRW (which, like boots and other sources of FRW, are nerfed) compensates for that.

[slashereight]

As for Iratha, I don't like it because hawkmail is heavy armor and drags you down. The run penalty subtracts from your increase speed skill directly and there's no way the 10% FRW (which, like boots and other sources of FRW, are nerfed) compensates for that.

I've never looked at it this way. Isn't wearing hawkmail the same as wearing light armor? I always thought the -10% speed penalty from wearing heavy armor is negated by the 10%frw mod. Is there something behind the mechanics that i'm missing?

[sirwhere]

Can't remember the formula, but shield and armor weight indeed deduct directly from speed skills, like increase speed or vigor, while all other sources of FRW have diminuishing returns. The formula should be somewhere in the forum.

[dusters]

Thus only blinkbat with its 10 frw and leather type would be nice as frw armor, rite?

[multifaros]

Hawkmail + hotspur? Would give me nice cold and fire res :)

[WarlockCC]

that 10%frw almost compensates for the 'heavy' status on hawkmail. But when using hawk and Iratha's, you also have the 20% frw from Iratha's.
I guess fastest in Classic would be Iratha's with Blinkbat, 30frw boots and as high as possible frw skill on a max Frenzy barb. :)
Using at least one Jade Tan Do for the cannot be Frozen.
Could add vigor, but you'd be out of range too fast.

[multifaros]

I'm going for lance/pike as weapon now.

How should i spend skills?
20 ww
20 bo
20 mastery
how much in incr. speed?
and should i take the rest (after speed) in natural res?

[sirwhere]

1. that 10%frw almost compensates for the 'heavy' status on hawkmail. But when using hawk and Iratha's, you also have the 20% frw from Iratha's.

2. I guess fastest in Classic would be Iratha's with Blinkbat, 30frw boots and as high as possible frw skill on a max Frenzy barb. :) Using at least one Jade Tan Do for the cannot be Frozen.

1. You have to check the formulas to say that with certainty... as it is it's just wishfull thinking :)

2. Jade tan do scores minus 1000 for style. I wouldn't be seen dead using one... lol.

[sirwhere]

I'm going for lance/pike as weapon now.

How should i spend skills?
20 ww
20 bo
20 mastery
how much in incr. speed?
and should i take the rest (after speed) in natural res?

20 ww, bo, mastery
8 or 13 increase speed
3-6 natural resists
1 battle command
Rest into LEAP

[multifaros]

Leap? Don't see many BvS using leap :/

One question:
is -req on lance a must? I will be using lance/pike, that's for sure.

[WarlockCC]

Leap? Don't see many BvS using leap :/

One question:
is -req on lance a must? I will be using lance/pike, that's for sure.
Not really a must imho, but it certainly helps.
When I see you online again I'll show you my lancer if you want.
You where gone rather fast yesterday. :)

[multifaros]

just discovered that i put 2 skills wrong... I'm lvl 20.

Starting over >_<

[WarlockCC]

1. You have to check the formulas to say that with certainty... as it is it's just wishfull thinking :)

2. Jade tan do scores minus 1000 for style. I wouldn't be seen dead using one... lol.

I have checked the formulas in the past and that is the gist of it. that 10frw almost compensates for the armor being heavy. The total effect of Hawkmail is about -2% frw iirc.

As for Jade, yes, I agree that a big, bright, orange, swirly dagger does not make the "D&G cool accessory" list. Although it might go well with a Goldskin and a atd shield. :)
Daggers just do not look good on a barb period. When you run around with 2 gulls on your MF barb it looks like he used tear gass for deo.

[sirwhere]

I have checked the formulas in the past and that is the gist of it. that 10frw almost compensates for the armor being heavy. The total effect of Hawkmail is about -2% frw iirc.

Ok. I'll check the formulas as well when I have time. I might dig up my Iratha's set back if I see I can go as fast with hawkmail as with Death sash.

[sirwhere]

Allright, using the formula for total run speed:

RunSpeed = 6 + 4 * [S + (I*150)/(I+150) - A]/100

S = skill FRW bonus
I = item FRW bonus
A = armor penalty
RunSpeed is in yards/second

We get, in the 3 possible configurations and assuming 30 FRW boots with level 14 increase speed

Death sash + blinkbat (S/I/A = 40/40/0): 8,86
Death sash + light armor (40/30/0): 8,6
Hawkmail + full Iratha set (40/60/-10): 8,91

And the winner for speediest babo is... iratha/hawkmail :) Death sash / blinkbat comes close, but requires super-rares to make up for iratha's bonuses.

[WarlockCC]

Actually, when using deaths sash, you could consider something other then deaths gloves to help compensate for what you're missing from Iratha's. On classic WW barb, that 30ias isn't very useful unless you are Bezerking a IM-casting necro. I'd go for some res/stats gloves myself, 15dex on gloves goes a long way towards compensating for that 25 dex Iratha's would give you.

I added your post to the FAQ sticky btw. :)

[sirwhere]

Iratha's big bonus is resistances, so this is indeed an anti-soso setup.

However, if you want an all-around speedster, you're probably better off with DS/blinkbat because that allows you to use a cool rare helm/gloves and gain some 200-300 final life.

[sirwhere]

I added your post to the FAQ sticky btw. :)

The formula isn't mine (it's tommy gustafsson/hammerman). Just change title to "FRW calculations by sirwhere" :)

[WarlockCC]

actually, Iratha's+hawkmail setup isn't great vs cold sorcs, since you end up with about 55 cold res after the sorc's mastery is deducted. Unless you have cold res on your weapon.

[multifaros]

I'll probably go with Irathas, since it's a lot cheaper and seems to work fine.

What boots should i use? Hotspur? Or rare ones with nice cold resist and fhr.

[sirwhere]

Iratha leaves you quite bad on the hit recovery department, so these two are must-haves in your boots:

30 FRW
10 FHR

Next in priorities comes cold resists.

[goomba]

actually, Iratha's+hawkmail setup isn't great vs cold sorcs, since you end up with about 55 cold res after the sorc's mastery is deducted. Unless you have cold res on your weapon.

or are stacking resist via a shield, and using a somewhat less rangey weapon.

most sorcs don't have a lot of life, and while I haven't built a pure speeder ever, and thus don't have the best of luck catching them, from what I have observed a little crushing blow, psn dmg, or open wounds goes a long way towards taking out a sorc.

some of the discussions in this thread have expanded to more BvA talk - (especially that whole bit about berserking a necro)

a necro that uses the bad manners of IM isn't worth duelling - and in fact, their name/acct is worth noting for future hot-tping if when you see them in a cs run.

(a large sticky note on the side of the monitor is a good resource for such things if one is as absent minded as I am, and playing only infrequently)

[multifaros]

I'm not sure if I will make it BvS or BvA... Is the differences that big? Can a BvA use Irathas?

And I dont think I will use a shield, I believe that the good range with a lance will be very helpful against sorcs since they can be hard to hit while teleporting around. There are lances/pikes with cr right?

And another question: What is max dmg on a pike? Is it possible to use one with a BvS? You could get a lot more life due to the low req.

[goomba]

I'm not sure if I will make it BvS or BvA... Is the differences that big? Can a BvA use Irathas?

And I dont think I will use a shield, I believe that the good range with a lance will be very helpful against sorcs since they can be hard to hit while teleporting around. There are lances/pikes with cr right?

And another question: What is max dmg on a pike? Is it possible to use one with a BvS? You could get a lot more life due to the low req.

I personally haven't seen anything above 15x damage pike. I had one in that range that was -20 req last ladder. I have heard of a 17x pike once, but honestly it was in a chat channel with folks bsing so I can't confirm it's existance or possibility

the true BvA build is often nothing more than a true BvB build with stacked resistances (e.g. much more expensive gear)

a dedicated typical BvS is most often a speeder/lancer

[multifaros]

I'm going for BvS then since I'm not a very rich guy (characters expired...) :)

[goomba]

I'm going for BvS then since I'm not a very rich guy (characters expired...) :)

use full irathra's, hot spurs, hawmail, and keep tripple socked shields combined with either a gnasher, or the general's flail.

use a pdiamond triple sock to lvl with in cs, triple pruby against fire sorcs, triple psaphy vs cold sorcs, and triple topaz against farcasting zons

you may not ever hit/kill a sorc (especially due to very low AR), but I'd wager you'll frustrate quite a few that can't kill you via elements :grin:

[multifaros]

i kind of think that different gears for dueling against different chars are lame... So I'd rather go with Lance than 1-handed weapon + 3soc shield. Hate when i duel someone with my firesorc, and they switch to 95 fireres gear :) I think using 1 gear all the time is more fair. But that's just my opinion.

[phool]

rares will actually give more +res and with better other stuff (skills, life, fhr), irathras is good for the frw and max res. And the budget element. You really need to be benefitting from that max res for irathras to be a good choice.

[sirwhere]

1. from what I have observed a little crushing blow, psn dmg, or open wounds goes a long way towards taking out a sorc.

2. a necro that uses the bad manners of IM isn't worth duelling

1. On a speeder you can use bloodthief for open wounds and switch to a lance once you get the soso bleeding. If you want crushing blow, you'll need gob toes, but that will slow you down considerably.

2. Why not? Just use the old trick of switching to a lance with lower damage to make sure you don't overkill the nec. It works, I've tried it.

[sirwhere]

1.I'm not sure if I will make it BvS or BvA... Is the differences that big? Can a BvA use Irathas?

2. And I dont think I will use a shield, I believe that the good range with a lance will be very helpful against sorcs since they can be hard to hit while teleporting around

3. And another question: What is max dmg on a pike? Is it possible to use one with a BvS? You could get a lot more life due to the low req.

1. Not really. As a BVA you only need to make sure you have enough str/dex to wear angelics jewelery. However, you do need a good connection and skills to whirl bowzons and outrange melee characters with precision.

2. To be quite honest, even with leap, a barbarian will have a hard time landing a hit on a skilled soso. The good news is there aren't many of those sosos :) So yeah, use all the range you can get.

3. Forget pikes. Sosos nowadays use twitchtroe, high block and energy shield. And besides, the pvp penalty is 1/6, so you'll definitely need more than 1 hit to kill her. All the damage you can get is good. By the way, max pike damage is like 209. Lance is like 362 ^^

[goomba]

i kind of think that different gears for dueling against different chars are lame... So I'd rather go with Lance than 1-handed weapon + 3soc shield. Hate when i duel someone with my firesorc, and they switch to 95 fireres gear :) I think using 1 gear all the time is more fair. But that's just my opinion.
public pvp is mostly about lame. perhaps not on your realm, but a goodly portion of the pub duels are folks that are well versed in lame/bad manners. farcasting zons, telewalk, AA, "chicken", automatic juv, and fcr/fhr hacks to refer to just a few (I tried to put in descriptions, rather than the actual names to hopefully minimize the ease of some folks googling for specific things to infect their machines with)


rares will actually give more +res and with better other stuff (skills, life, fhr), irathras is good for the frw and max res. And the budget element. You really need to be benefitting from that max res for irathras to be a good choice.
I very much agree, whilst leveling however, the irathra's makes for some very nice resistance pvm mode. It was only fairly recently that I elected to give up the full irathra's on my cs din on east ladder. He wasn't a "gosu" dominating din, but could quite easily, and comfortabley raid a full game without a bo. For budget/beginner the irathra's is a decent starting point. what hasn't been discussed is that even a poor modded lance in the 300+ damage range will run an even soj. add mods, higher damage, and/or -req and the price goes up exponentially.

1. On a speeder you can use bloodthief for open wounds and switch to a lance once you get the soso bleeding. If you want crushing blow, you'll need gob toes, but that will slow you down considerably.

2. Why not? Just use the old trick of switching to a lance with lower damage to make sure you don't overkill the nec. It works, I've tried it.

meh. lances aren't very small to begin with, let alone keeping multiple different variants in the stash, cube, pack. it's a manners thing, and few folks on D2 have any these days. it's one of the reasons I usually prefer to raid a duel game than actually participate in it.

if someone wants to attempt to cspk me, I may dance with them if I'm close to base xp, or if they've hostiled me after I've cleared the entire area around a seal, else it's just something I don't get super worked up about.

I have the most fun in finding/obtaining spectacular items, and giving them away to friends, and/or new players. so I guess I'll confess (Again) to really not having a lot of interest or enjoyment in duelling as it typically exists on d2. the lld ironman games intrigued me, and obviously when someone attempts to pk me, I do chuckle a bit when I reverse it on them and they leave naked.

one of the differences between me, and most d2 players, and even many from here that were on my /f list who attempted to do things in a "business manner".

I am forced to live in the real world all too much during the day. when I'm online, it's a cheap form of escapism - and for me, that's typically in leveling and/or mfing. *shrug*

[multifaros]

Wow, that was poethic :)

Myself, I find dueling the best part of D2... I just love owning people, especially when you are arguing with someone and they are like "yeah, well I bet i poonz you in a duel" and you just fry them. I might sound like an evil person but seriously, I'm not :)

Back to topic:
So it seems lance are very expensive... My friend has a PSsockted lance with 3xx dmg, with some AR and other mods. Not gosu, but good. The thing is that it has no -req... He said I can borrow it, but I was thinking I should go with a -req lance. Not sure if I can afford one though.

Should I just borrow the lance without -req? I will use irathas too, keep that in mind :) So I probably won't have very much life.

[WarlockCC]

Iratha's gives 25 dex, so that's 25 more points in vit. You don't really need a -req one. It's easier to use a full req one so you can at least upgrade it at some point. -req's are just too hard to get with descent damage. let alone triple dura ones for leveling. Though for that, you could also use a tri-dura pike with gobs.
Actually, for leveling, I would suggest keeping a tri-dura spear type of at least a bit of damage, goblins, angelic ring and armor and a dual leech ring on your char.

[multifaros]

I have a PSsockted lance I can borrow from a friend now, but "only" 275 dmg... Is it enough?

Here it is:

http://pici.se/pictures/SyDvyblMx.png

Not the best lance, I know, but I will start using it since I get it free. I can upgrade to a better lance later :)

So I need 88 dex and 110 str for this one... I guess I will have to add some to base, but how much? Is it possible to use 2x rings with 10+ dex and 10+ str, or should I just go with nicer res-rings and add some more to base? :)

[phool]

A socketed item with not even 160% ed... sigh. It'll do but try and get some stats off rings as barbs get 4 health per vita it's better to get stats than life. It'll leave room for upgrading as well. Lances' damage is increased by both dex and str so it's not all bad.

[sirwhere]

Dex increases lance damage? why..? Dex only increases bow and throw damage.

Anyway, yeah -reqs lances of 160%+ ed are exceedingly rare. Because of the 1/6 pvp penalty, you'll need every bit of damage you can get, so just try and get the most damage possible.

[phool]

iirc spear class weapons get something like 0.5% for dex and 0.5% for str... maybe that's just xbows or javs or lod or something. Meh you'll get some negligible ar then =/

[norvi11erogers]

This is false. Most weapons get 1.0*str bonus. The exceptions are:
Daggers/Throwing weapons: 0.75*str + 0.75*dex,
Bows/XBows: 1.0*dex
War Hammer/Maul/Great Maul: 1.1*str

For good information on game mechanics, including this information, check out the strategy compendium.

http://strategy.diabloii.net/news.php?id=551#Weapon%20Damage

It seems to be missing information on ignore target's defense. Anyone know where this went?

[multifaros]

An off-topic question:
what the hell is Defense vs missile? I have always wondered :)

[sirwhere]

Adds to armor against missile attacks. But it only works if you're not running, so it's pretty pointless in both pvm and pvp :)