Crescent Moon vs Eschutas

[Littlewoodenboy]

wow i think im sacing alot going a crescent moon route from eschutas. and if going Crescent moon route i can double my neg res from 30 25from griffs and 5 from eschutas (facet'ed) to -60 with crescent. thats good and all is it worth getting rid of +3 skills 40frc and 25%light dmg? of course im not calculating my mercs infinity in there conviction you know. with an ES route im already sacing 1 synergy dmg for this i aint maxing block thats a freakin waste with spirit. and going crescent moon ill have low low resistance going with that and an enigma. res from maras and spirit anni and torch and 30 from quest that might be enough to reach positives i think. but with ES route res isnt really a big deal as long as ur positeve to around 30 from what Borje said in an earlier post. im trying to make the best optimized PVM sorc that can tank anything in hell take a hit and do massive damage. i know im not going to deal top damage cause i have to sac a little to be efficent. SO this is the debate. if crescent moon is really the best way to go what would the gear set up look like. the richest. and if its really not worth it i have an idea. for what im gonna do but i do need some informations suggestions and feedback from all the sorc people out there. Keep in mind im really looking towards a ES light build. but if there is better alternitive ill listen also. please dont say its better. back it up with facts. i like to see that.

[Borje]

Hello!

Since I was pointed out with a name, I will do the honours of trying to answer you.

First off, since someone might have catched up by all my posts about it, I love ES. The cool thing is that when you max telekenesis you only loose 0.75 mana per damage absorbed. This is one of the key arguments for the ES, since you get 2 mana/energy invested and 2 life/vit invested and you should be packing quite a bit of +maximum mana (thinking atleast one soj, BO and maybe frosties, more on equipment later). Lets make some simple math: Lets say you have maxed telek and a 75% ES and you take 100 DMG. The damage redirected to your ES will be 100*0.75=75 damage, the mana loss will only be 75*0.75=56.25. While the damage that goes to your life will only be 25, that is a total of 56.25+25=81.25 that is to compare to 100 lost life without ES, that is an effective 18.25% damage resistance, and we're talking any kind of damage except poison and open wounds (no monsters deal OW, only PvP). Also, lets say you slap on a SOJ, your mana will go up by 25%, effectivly reducing the mana you need to get from energy points spent/+mana from items to 56.25/1.25=45. So pretty much: 45 mana points is taking care of 75 damage points. The energy shield is, beyond any doubt an excelent way to squeez the most survivabillity out of your stat points. Like I've said before, if you get your res up to around 20 you should be set, the exception is the poison res that you should try to max since it will pierce your ES. Ofcourse, you could slam a row of Antidotes in your belt and use instead but the psn res isn't that hard to come by, more on that futher down.

About the CM and other equipment. First of it's important to note that the +X% to lightning skill damage from eschutas will simply stack with your lightning mastery so if you have +300% from lightningmastery, the eschutas will make it +325%, and thats a very small boost. The increase in damage dealth will be increased far more by CM than by Eschutas. That is, the damage dealt/spell cast. To increase your damage over time you must make sure you can compensate for the loss of the 40% FCR. If you can't get to the breakpoint you are looking for it may not be worth it. going for the 78% FCR BP souldn't be too hard, but reaching the 117% could be a pain. But since you have a griffons, it might be doable, lets see... Here are pretty much the items you should play around with to add up a total of 117% FCR with CM:

Vipermagi (30%)
Amulet (10-20% crafted can get up to 20%, but with good mods they are VERY expensive)
Arachnid (20%)
Magefists (20%)
FCR ring (10%/ring)
Spirit (25-35%)
Griffons (25%)

Since you are going for ES you will want as much points as possible in Energy so using enigma to save 60-70 points of str is highly recomended, it also packs a lot of mods that is superior to an ES build, especially since the big res from vipermagi won't do you that much good, so strike that.

The items you should use, because they simply are the best regardless of what FCR bp you are going to includes: Griffons, Spirit and Arach, get a perfect spirit for a total of 80% FCR so far. The reason I didn't include the Magefists are because they are in competition with Frostburns. The frosties gives +40% maximum mana which will add a lot of mana for your energy shield, and the mana pool can't get too big! However, I would strongly recomend Magefists rather than two FCR rings, simply because the two ring slots should be taken by 2 SOJS for +2 skills and +50% Maximum mana. With the Magefists you would get a total of 100% FCR, so left for that 117% FCR bp is 17 FCR to be filled by your ring slots and your amulet slot. I would say it's mandatory to keep at least one soj on, but really awsome with 2. So if we are talking ideal set up it would be a crafted amulet with at least 17% FCR. But like I've said earlier they are not cheap, especially not with any good mods like skills, but maybe it would be possible to find one with some +mana? Another option is a 10 FCR amu (or acctually, a 7+ FCR craft with cool mods works too) and a FCR ring. Like I've said, I would not sacrifice the other SOJ to be able to wear that Maras. If you find yourself using CB or Nova as main skills you are looking at 105% FCR for the break point, this is attained a bit easier, using a "normal" FCR ring/amu with the best mods you can find.

So.. I must say, it's possible, but do you think it's worth it? The other option is to go with Griffon+arach+Spirit(33+) for that 78% FCR and get the Frosties, 2 SOJS and Maras. You will have bigger, I'm guessing much bigger (have been studying all day, to tired for maths atm, sry), mana pool, +3 more skills (killing speed = life/kill from Enigma + monsters dying = survivability) at the trade off of 9.2% slower cast speed. I think it's up to you to decide, if you can get that 17% FCR amulet I'd say gogogo, but if it's at the cost of a soj, I don't know... As a side note I could say that my sorc uses Magefists even though I'm only at the 78% FCR and the lost from frosties doesn't kill me...

Ok, so the gear setup I'd recommend:

the 117% FCR one
Griffon
Spirit
Enigma
Crescent Moon
Arachnid
Magefists
2*SOJ (or one FCR ring with +mana and other nice mods if no 17% amu)
17% FCR amu with the best mods you can afford, skills being prior 1, mana being prior 2 (10% amu and FCR ring if you can't get that one).
Sandstorms Trek

the 78% FCR one
Griffon
Spirit
Enigma
Crescent Moon
Arachnid
2*SOJ
Maras or rare/crafted with +2 skills, mana and other nice mods
Sandstorms Trek

The Sandstorms Trek is simply awsome, they will get you over that 60% FHR break point, provide some sweet str bonus (10-15 more points in energy) and the most important bonus: it will give you +(40-70)% psn res, make sure you get a pair with a high enough bonus to max poison res!

Also, here is an MF variant at 78% FCR
Griffon
Spirit
Enigma
Crescent Moon
Arachnid
1 SOJ/1 Natures peace if doing nihl, otherwise a nice rare with mf and psn res or Carrion Wind
Chance Guards
War Travelers
Rare amu with MF

On all these three you should keep a CTA+Spirit on switch and a Torch, anni and a some Sparkling grand charms.

Good luck, and I hope I didn't miss any of your questions...

[Littlewoodenboy]

good point i got everything covered. im working on the ammy now as for the crescent moon. what is recommended i make that in sword staff ect..... and res you said earlier that a lvl 20ish es with max telekenisis would getme 80%dmg goes to manna. having that said my res with the top set up 117fcr it would be very low. with per anni and torch wich i do i have and spirit. thats putting me cold 5res -30fire light 5 and poison will be almost maxed awesome thing. leaves me adding res sc but like to have room for items to pick up. with life gcs and anni torch i have around 8spaces left for this unless i take a few gcs away to add more res. just enough to reach around +30 for all. i think i almost got the build complete. thank borje for the ensight. good info

[Borje]

Hmmm.. yes you are right... it's a good thing you pointed it out, because the point I initially was trying to make was that you would have to sacrifice quite a bit to reach the BP with CM and well.. this was a hypothetical approach, frankly, I've never owned a Griffon, and only one soj on the same ladder. I got the FCR covered, but hmm.. lets think about the res (since you mentioned it, I will count for pft anni/torch)

Starting at: -100
Anya 30@
Anni 20@
Torch 20@
Spirit 35@-fire
Treks 70psn (if perfect...)
This gives final res
Fire: -30
Cold: 5
lightning: 5
Psn: 75

Well, the fireres doesn't quite cut it and you would probably be more comfortable with another 10ish to cold and light. Rethinking a bit concerning the crafted amulet: Try to get one with Fire/@ res, pref. both over the skills/mana. Ok, so I'm back with some math ;) three cases: first one, -30 fire res and a 80% ES, the other with +30% fire res and 80% ES and in the last we have maxed fire res but no ES.

(1). You are hit by a fire attack of 100 dmg, 80% will be absorbed, but 20 dmg will go to your health, with your negative res this dmg will be 20*1.30=26 damage.
(2). You are hit by the same fire attack, 20 dmg will go through your ES where the res will make it 20*0.70=14 damage is taken from your health.
(3). You are hit by the same fire attack, your resistance will reduce this damage by 75%, you take 100*0.25=25 damage.

The damage you take will be pretty much the same in the first and last cases only in the third case you will have more life. However, when you have some Fire res, you will take almost half the damage. The whole point of an ES build is pretty much lost if we take as much damage as before, but simultaneously gets our mana drained! Note that these calculations can not be used to argue against an ES build, because all the physical damage dealt to you will be reduced a lot more than you could ever get with a no ES build (even if you would go with ber'd SS+enigma/CoH for a maxed %DR, that's caped at 50%).

So if you can't get your res up with a really nice craft with atleast 30 fire res and pref a 10ish prismatic res, you may want to shoot for the 78% FCR and get your res up by using Maras. Atleast until you can obtain that really awsome craft!

And about what weapon to make it in, the possibilities are Swords, Axes and Polearms. Obviously you wouldn't want it a polearm since they are two handed. So, either Sword or Axes. One obvious choise is to use a 3 os normal sword/axe for low reqs. and the other option is to make it in a weapon that could be used by melee chars in future, that is, if you want a better resale value. However, the most builds would want it in a Phase Blade, but that would bring the dex reqs up to high, just like all of the swords that could be interresting. So if you want to make it in an elite item, it has to be an axe. It so happens that the most commonly used elite axe is the Berserker Axe and it has str req 138 and dex req 59. Your items should bring your dex that high so it is surely a possible option. But if you don't care about resale value you should probably go for a good old 3 os Crystal Sword, or War Sword, the latter will get 3 sockets maximum..

I'm glad I can be of some help!

[Littlewoodenboy]

yeah ill add 8 sc 5all resist charms on top of that. right now im shooting for a 2 sorc 20frc+fire res if any str life mana or all res ammy. should be fun lol lvl 89 requirements. luckley i have a lvl 91 unused stats and skills. waiting for that last ammy.

[Borje]

Yeah, the level req on the crafted amu with +2 skills are really high, but hey, it's a freaking awsome amulet! If you manage to get a 2sorc/17+FCR/+some fire res you got yourself a pretty cruel build, I am jealous :rolleyes:. With those SCs you will be unbeatable, pretty much - watch out for mana burners, though!

Have you thought about your stat allocation? Obviously, as little str as possible. Remember that with those 8*5 allres SCs you will be at max psn res even with a +40% psn res Treks, so try to get ones with perfect +str since that will give you some more points to save - oh, and if you can get eth thats cool, but better non-eth +15 str than eth with less, I'd say. Futher more you should try to get your life, after BO up to about 1200+, it's pretty much a comfort level and you will need some life in case you are hit by mana burners, so that you don't get 1-hit-killed. But the majority of your points should go into Energy. Since you have an unstated sorc, don't put all points in at once, but save 100ish points to place after you've tried it out and gotten used to it so that you get them placed idealy, it's pretty much a matter of preference.

Be sure to let me know how this works out, like I said, I've never had a sorc with this good items so let me know, via PM or if this thread is still alive in here =)

Good luck, m8!

[Littlewoodenboy]

will do. i do have a pair of per eth treks. 15/15 they will work great. yeah illl let you know. im just tired of people saying ahh just make a hammerdin to do all your pvm. its alot easier. but frankly its darn boring i had a lvl 97 and it was cool for a while but boring. i wanted to make a charater to embarras a pally in pvm. or come very close to it. so hope this will work.

[Borje]

This will work great, I mean, I'm using a lot cheaper gear than these elegant pieces and I'm doing great so you will kick ***. But I'm sorry to have to say, you get tired of seeing whole packs of monsters fall down to a single CL in the end too. But anyhow, your babe will rock!

[Littlewoodenboy]

at least i can have alot of orignality from this build i can say i havent seen this build at all even if i did its rare. i see some light sorc out there. also i can compare them to cars in the us. hammerdins r like mustangs to darn many of them. i think a good well built sorc is like a ferrari. dont see to many of them. lol.

[Littlewoodenboy]

For anyone whos willling to try the same thing as me this is what is end up with

Weapon:Crescent Moon crystal sword/CTA
Shield:Spirit/Spirit (35fcr)
helm: Pgriffs(facet'd) (25fcr)
Armor:Nigma mp or ds depending on ur set up.
Gloves:Mage Fist (20fcr)
Boots:Eth Treks 15/15 perfered
belt:aracnids (20fcr)
Rings:2xSoj
Ammy: Crafted +2sorc +17fcr +fire res or all res +mods ammy (17-20fcr)

Skills

20 Telekenisis
20 Light Mastery
20 Chain Lightening
20 Lightening (has high end dmg than any other)
20 Charged Bolt
1 Warmth
1 Static Field
1 ES
1 Teleport pre for ES

Lvl 92 will complet this build the left over skill points for the last of the levels can be added in some shiva or frozen armor perhaps or added into nova synergie.

-60 light res with the CM Griffs (facet'd)
117FCR
(20fhr treks)(55fhr spirit) u can add a light gc with 12%fhr to break the 86fhr
res 5 cold -30fire 5 light 75 poison. increase by charms or crafted ammy

Charms 7light gcs life perfered fhr 20res torch 20res anni


Stats

STR: enough to equip gear shouldnt be much if u got a good clos to 20str ammy for mods should be able to leave it base inf not just a few points
Dex: base
Life: 1 per 2 energy
Energy:2energy to 1
if u got lots of life through charms make sure ur add more into energy.


Merc act 2 (Holy Freeze)
eth andys ral'd
eth fortitude
eth infinity


Special thanks to Borje for helping me with this ES PVM Build!!!!.

[Borje]

Looks really good, it really is a high-end set up! Let me know what you think of her when you've been playing around with her a bit =)

[Vindicator]

THANK YOU FOR ADDING THIS! i really appreciate it as well ^_^.

all i need to do is level my sorc to 92... *sigh* but after that, it is going to be cool.

[Littlewoodenboy]

ive made the crescent moon out of a war sword low dex and str requirement. trust me even tho your dmg says it decreases with it equiped the -neg multiplys it. i had to see it for my self. very godly. too me convincing. the only thing now is im waiting for my ammy. very essential and very expensive geeze hard to find one but i have crap loads of ammy ima start craftin to see what i come up with

[Littlewoodenboy]

hes an update. i finished build still waiting on that ammy i should have one within this week. but to test the gear out i went ahead and just got a 20fcr crap ammy. tested both eschutas build vs crescent moon. with no gcs. 24k went down to 16k. but my average time to kill baals minions was 17secs faster with crescent moon. than with eschutas. this is hell mind you. her dmg is phenominal. i dont have any gcs on i dont ahve a belt on or have +skills ammy. crap stat distrubution and skills where they should be. this was a test before i proceed with this ES PVM Light Sorc. with the final set up im pretty postive i can kill baals minions in hell just as fast or faster than a hammerdin. im eagar for this build to happen. 1 piece of equipment waiting. ill keep u all posted. ill be making a video to show results

[Borje]

Well, you will most def. be in for a treat when you put on the Arachnid Mesh because without it you will not hit the last FCR breakpoint with Crescent Moon, however you will with Eschutas Temper. So you where 17 sec faster with a Crescent Moon set up kicking at 78% FCR against a 117% FCR with Eschutas.

Will write a comment on the amu in the other thread...

[Littlewoodenboy]

thats an average takes alot of lightening with eschutas to bring em down. more shots. well think of this way slower teleing to throne faster killing. a BIG Notice in dmg. whats th golden folder mean need to this thread it was red for hot thread now its golden. hmmm i cant say ive seen that