Anyone have a realy nice fire druid pvp build?

[cowtestickles]

I want to make a ele fire druid for pvp, and i'm just wondering if anyone has a realy good build for one.

[Skullbash]

PvP Fire Druide Guide By FWI
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=383268

[cowtestickles]

i read that already a few times, its quite old though. Thought maybe someone has a more updated guide or even someone with a fire druid that does good in pvp games.

[Skullbash]

Yeah, that guide is pretty old, but most of what it says still holds true. I think one of the choices for gear is somewhat strange, and maybe one or two of the dueling strategies aren't in depth enough, but other than that it's pretty spot-on. Unlike some of the other fire druid guides, you can tell the guy who wrote it knows what he's talking about and has firsthand experience.

My fire druid is currently unequipped but I used to duel with him quite a bit. What were you wondering about?

[Narcotic]

I use spirit as my shield and switch between either arach or dungo and fcring or bk. This way i get the 86 fhr bp and can also get 99 fcr if i need it. I chose to max firestorm before molten boulder so my fissure did as much damage as possible as early as possible.

[cowtestickles]

well just like, if i should go max block with all the chargers and ww barbs on east now. Also how much fcr should u have since there is that delayed casting timer. Also i question his skills. I would think loosing a bit of damage for almost double your health would be worth it.

[Narcotic]

If you max block then you definitely need to max oak sage. If you go full vit, one point will do it.

Basically, with max block you will have around 1200 base health (after item bonuses etc. [at least with my gear]), maxed oak sage will give me 200% life on top of the ~90% gained from BO. At the end of this, I will have max block and around 4800 life. Now, with full vit I will have 1600 base health but only 105% from sage. Oddly enough this still ends up to be 4800 life (with BO also). It all comes down to whether you value damage or max block more. Oh, and if you are using SS or Sanctuary then max block is a lot easier to obtain and you will be better off, I prefer spirit though so full vit works for me, and as far as melee classes go, you should be telee-ing out of their path anyway so max block isn't a very good idea (pretend you're a sorceress, you don't need max block because you will just be dodging all blockable attacks, same concept applies here except you don't tele as fast, this works for against all melee classes and for zons, stack minions and tp right on the zon).

[slothkin]

If you max block u most likely wearing a spirit. IMO the only way to make a fire druid worth it for pvp is a 30/-30 fire sword in ur mainhand. If u have this you will need spirit for cast rate to be able to teleport at a decent speed. So max block is out.

[cowtestickles]

hmm thanks for the input guys, anyone els? But if i use a 30/30 sword my resists are going to be trash.

[Skullbash]

If you're going for max block, Use SS or another high block shield, Spirit requires far too much of an investment in dexterity. Keep in mind that against some melee characters you will not always be able to get away fast enough to avoid being hit i.e. WWSin(Stunlock), BvC, TeleSmiters since you don't have the cast rate of a sorc. Bowzons also can be a problem since you don't really have the tele bombing capabilities of a wind druid.

Also something not touched on yet is FRW, Which is as important (if not more so) than FCR. A lot of dueling with a fire druid is like a trapper and involves positioning, But since you don't quite have the range of lightning sentry you need to move...and quickly. I don't know how much you planned on using Armageddon, But with high FRW it is far more easy to control.

You definitely don't ALWAYS need the 30/30 to be successful, Although against people that stack/sorb you it might help (although depending on how much they use even that might not be enough). Another option is to shop an artisan's tower shield of deflecting from either larzuk or halbu in act 4 and stuff it with 3 fire facets to keep your block up (If you're insanely rich and lucky you could try and find a legit jmod to trade for.)

As far as skills, Thats where fire druids are the most fun, Everyone plays them differently and you have a ton of versatility to mess around with. I'd say make one and find out what setup works for you, Be creative, If you don't like the result, You can always remake.

Here are a couple of setups that people use:

Pure Fire Druid
1-20 Firestorm
1-20 Molten Boulder
20 Fissure
20 Volcano
1-20 Armageddon
0-1 Ravens
1-20 Oak
0-1 Spirit Wolves, Dire, and Bear

ClanIraq's
Shaman (From what I can tell anyway, the guy that made the guide got banned from here and it kind of vanished into the ether)
20 Volcano
20 Fissure
20 Grizzly
20 Molten Boulder
0-1 Armageddon
1 Oak Sage
1 HoW
I'll PM you the link for this, I'm not sure if I can post it here

TheMayor's
Dual Elementalist (Not sure if this actually works, but it definitely looks cool)
20 Cyclone Armor
20 Tornado
20 Fissure
20 Volcano
10+ Hurricane
1 All summons except vines
The Link:
http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=587976&highlight=Dual+Elementalist

These are NOT the only options, mess around and you could stumble onto a good build by accident. I'm currently knocking around the idea of a partially synergized cyclone armor and/or a 10 point oak sage. If you're on east Non Ladder I'll duel you once I get my new druid up and running.

[cowtestickles]

thanks anyone els?

[lolclaniraq]

ClanIraq's
Shaman (From what I can tell anyway, the guy that made the guide got banned from here and it kind of vanished into the ether)
20 Volcano
20 Fissure
20 Grizzly
20 Molten Boulder
0-1 Armageddon
1 Oak Sage
1 HoW
I'll PM you the link for this, I'm not sure if I can post it here

Thats pretty spot on. THey haven't really devised a way to banish me into the ether yet, though.

And if it isn't obvious, for the leftover skill points you should pump firestorm. I don't especially recommend the build to people who are new or otherwise not insanely good at dueling, as it takes a remarkable amount of skill to utilize the whole "bear-factor". If you aren't familiar with the idea of telebombing people with a bear, you might be better off with one of the pure fire builds. They are just more inherently limited in most duels.

[inanefedaykin]

I don't recomend Iraq's build to anyone, it's terrible.

[lolclaniraq]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a243RcXW3Eo

Theres a neat little video of it in action.

[inanefedaykin]

Pub + Noobs = doesn't count

[lolclaniraq]

I'd be happy to duel you or any of your friends.

[Jary]

:thumbsup: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a243RcXW3Eo

Theres a neat little video of it in action.

cool vid, good song too :thumbsup:

I think the build is really cool, so is the vid.. but I'm not the biggest fan of the all around build sry, and it's mainly just 'cause your two main attacks... volcano & griz... only half synergized and that sorta bothers me : /

1 pt in HoW, sorta a waste in my book.. prolly adds 1k damage to your griz at best, it'd be sweeter if you at least had that maxed (however I realize not enough points >.<). Also, since only 1 pt Gedon, your volcano is only 1/2 synergized...your main attack..? and also your gedon does like 1/3 its potential and that's sorta grrr'ish. It's like you started going for one thing and gave up half way lol

I dunno, just seems like taking the 20 points from grizzly and finishing off fire with all that awesome fire gear you have would be better.. maybe even use infinity on switch vs barbs and such with a point in Werebear just for survival/tank purposes when your health gets low. However, I love to see new things so I do give you mad props for creativity, it does look like a lot of fun :)

Are you on West ladder, I'd love to duel for fun :thumbsup:

[pedu]

I dont get it. Everytime that build comes up, somebody puts it down. This is the druid forum ffs. Its not like the fury/rabies build is the best pvp out there either. It is the funnest tho. Anyways, the build does have some visible weirdness as pointed out, but the thing is, why does it constantly have to be stomped on?
Maybe the author keeps selling it for more than its worth, but still, does it make the build itself so bad?
If this was the pally forum and somebody posted a weird build there with equal weirdness i would understand... :wink2:

[Skullbash]

I dont get it. Everytime that build comes up, somebody puts it down. This is the druid forum ffs. Its not like the fury/rabies build is the best pvp out there either. It is the funnest tho. Anyways, the build does have some visible weirdness as pointed out, but the thing is, why does it constantly have to be stomped on?
Maybe the author keeps selling it for more than its worth, but still, does it make the build itself so bad?
If this was the pally forum and somebody posted a weird build there with equal weirdness i would understand... :wink2:

I think it has to do with ClanIraq being something of a black sheep here, although I have no idea about the details of why that is...

[cowtestickles]

hmm the shaman looks kinda fun, do you think it would be better to do the pure fire build to get the timing down then try out the bear?

[Angelus Meritae]

hmm, i think the shaman build is nice... If i wasn't on a slow connection I would watch the video. I'm a bit curious as to if the bear acts like a mercenary when teleporting (will instantaneously attack after a teleport) and whether a player with good FHR will be able to easily avoid getting locked and "bombed" with a fissure. My own build ive been thinking of also revolves around somewhat of a survival aspect with cyclone armor.. but I'm not sure anymore.

[slothkin]

Nice vid. I like the aggresive style of that iraq build or whatever but i think against any barb/pally/(anyone with max resist+block) you'd be toast. The way i see it the only way to make a decent fire druid is to get 1pt oak/raven/wolves then put ALL remaining pts to fire synergies. You need 6facet sword, ravenlore, and 99 faster cast rate.

Depending on how much life u got from your charms u can hit 5k hp easy. The casting delays suck so u have to play very defensively. Volcano anyone with weak fhr/low hp characters drive by style. Fissure everyone else trying to lure them towards the fissures much like a bliz sorc. If they sorb you you're kinda screwed so just try and kite with volcano.

Overall not the strongest build but one of the most fun. I have no life skillers, about 4k life and i can easily clear out pugs(if theres no one there that sorbs). Also be prepared to lvl up to at least the 90's to fully max out the fire skills. If you find you like fissure more then max moulten boulder last. If you like volcano then max firestorm last. My firedruid is lvl 94 with about 18k geddon 6k fissure and 4k volcano with -55 enemy resists.

Just thought of one more strategy i sometimes use. Sometimes vs hammerdins or wind druids i just stand there and spam firestorm. If all 3 lines hit them when they teleport on you it does 27k(9k per line). Doesnt work often but when it does its awesome

[cowtestickles]

Nice vid. I like the aggresive style of that iraq build or whatever but i think against any barb/pally/(anyone with max resist+block) you'd be toast. The way i see it the only way to make a decent fire druid is to get 1pt oak/raven/wolves then put ALL remaining pts to fire synergies. You need 6facet sword, ravenlore, and 99 faster cast rate.

Depending on how much life u got from your charms u can hit 5k hp easy. The casting delays suck so u have to play very defensively. Volcano anyone with weak fhr/low hp characters drive by style. Fissure everyone else trying to lure them towards the fissures much like a bliz sorc. If they sorb you you're kinda screwed so just try and kite with volcano.

Overall not the strongest build but one of the most fun. I have no life skillers, about 4k life and i can easily clear out pugs(if theres no one there that sorbs). Also be prepared to lvl up to at least the 90's to fully max out the fire skills. If you find you like fissure more then max moulten boulder last. If you like volcano then max firestorm last. My firedruid is lvl 94 with about 18k geddon 6k fissure and 4k volcano with -55 enemy resists.

Just thought of one more strategy i sometimes use. Sometimes vs hammerdins or wind druids i just stand there and spam firestorm. If all 3 lines hit them when they teleport on you it does 27k(9k per line). Doesnt work often but when it does its awesome
but do u got max block or no?

[slothkin]

No. All stats in vitality. With nigma treks ani torch you shouldnt need any in strength to wear spirit. If you do its ok add a bit to str and then all the rest to vitality

[cowtestickles]

double post

[cowtestickles]

skills i have its just the gear i'm realy struggiling with like what rings/ammy gloves belt, pelt shield/weapon.

[inanefedaykin]

So you have a charecter that has summon stack, a spell that causes dodge lock and one that disables running but you complain about bowas?

[Jary]

I think he was saying opposite actually. :)

However imo any realy pro bowa with dodge, good resists, and fast attack speed should shred that build to bits. Generally bear stack helps, but not when it dies in one hit like his... how can you claim resummon>tank when they're killing it faster than you recast and hitting u pierce as they spray too?

This build could hold its own against BvC, I could see that. fissure works wonders against ww.
However, again.. low life, if they get a good whirl on you you're finished.

Pally's.... again, it's not so much your strengths as their weaknesses I see it.

[Liquid_Evil]

I've always thought of shamans as pretty decent builds. Fire Druids are clunky characters in general with all the short duration/ranges of their skills coupled with the timers so there is a definite learning curve.

Oh, and what's the score now? Has iraq has come back more times than inkanddagger?

[Verashiden]

Probably. At least Ink only comes back to offer insight on something >.>

[cowtestickles]

Probably. At least Ink only comes back to offer insight on something >.>

he is helping me the most, i don't see you posting insightful comments!!

[slothkin]

I think he was saying opposite actually. :)

However imo any realy pro bowa with dodge, good resists, and fast attack speed should shred that build to bits. .

I lot of time if u can land a volcano on a zons feet she'll get dodge locked and since volcano has fire + physical damage its hard for them to resist both ot it. If they're good though it will be hard to get close enough to namelock them and get a volcano under their feet.

[Verashiden]

Well yeah, you don't see a lot of bowas with decent resists or DR. However, the problem with a Shaman comes from the BvC with SoE and Pally Matchup. One hit on the Bear and the BvC is back to full life. How does a Shaman counter? Sacrifice the Bear and lay Fissures down to lead him? Even with 1 point Dire will still give the Bear 1.8k+ life, making any meaningful hit a free Juv.

Cow: One thread doesn't equal helpful in his case :).

Iraq: Since I know you'll read this and be back within the day, care to explain how to beat melee? :)

[Skullbash]

So maybe I'm stepping out of line here, but why is it that everyone seems to dislike ClanIraq so much?

[Liquid_Evil]

So maybe I'm stepping out of line here, but why is it that everyone seems to dislike ClanIraq so much?

I think most just don't care for his arrogant demeanor. I think his Shaman guide has merit and I didn't really have any problems with him until he posted his "guide" on Thorns and damage return. It was all non-tested theory-crafting that he passed off as solid info. Spreading bad info is a D2 war crime imo.

[Jary]

Well yeah, you don't see a lot of bowas with decent resists or DR. However, the problem with a Shaman comes from the BvC with SoE and Pally Matchup. One hit on the Bear and the BvC is back to full life. How does a Shaman counter? Sacrifice the Bear and lay Fissures down to lead him? Even with 1 point Dire will still give the Bear 1.8k+ life, making any meaningful hit a free Juv.

Cow: One thread doesn't equal helpful in his case :).

Iraq: Since I know you'll read this and be back within the day, care to explain how to beat melee? :)

Bah... damn you BvC and your leeching my bear :P

I remember this BvC would purposely ignore me and just WW my bear in-between fighting this Pally just to heal... I was like "quit healing off my bear lol ^.^"

But anyways, I'm working on getting a good 21 thorns 'Bramble' & 'Edge' bow on switch here in the near future. Also, I threw a point into SoB (I know, it's a sin and I'll deal with it later:wink3: ) so it's lvl 30. I'ma do some testing with its effectiveness in duels, whether just tg or in battle casting bear on top of me.

I've used before with mixed results... Smiters usually play dead quickly but I have a tough time against barbs with high leech (~30%) since it practically cancels it out, BLEH. However that was just bramble (lvl 20 thorns), I wanna see how Edge helps too. Also, I wanna compare to see if lvl 30 SoB>lvl 49 oak... if its worth having a bear with more life or more thorns and how that plays out. Who knows, maybe I'll get bored and make a quick fun vid, I'll see.

[Jary]

I think most just don't care for his arrogant demeanor. I think his Shaman guide has merit and I didn't really have any problems with him until he posted his "guide" on Thorns and damage return. It was all non-tested theory-crafting that he passed off as solid info. Spreading bad info is a D2 war crime imo.

mmm... I've never had a problem against him. I bicker ovre builds with him like I pretty much do to every one else, I'm equally annoying to all! lol =D
If anything, I found he puts more testing and clarification into most shizzle than most ppl, and this is from over the years of reading other forum threads he's done... if anything it's other ppl that dont have their facts straight... like the 2, 3, 4- frame Were-sin, who clarified that? he did.

Many guides seem to make stuff up. ie: It had been stated as fact that frw doesn't affect Trang "ghoul lord" in one of the necro guides, well.. me and Sonny just ran a test a while ago proving otherwise and it deffinitely makes a dramatic difference >.< the lieees! lol

Well it really depends. Its alot of theory mostly, because for a BvC to beat a shaman like that, he needs:
1) 1 handed W/S setup
2) High Stacked Resists / Sorb
3) High Leech

All good BvC's will have high stacked resists. Therefore, your fissures are gonna be guaranteed 75%+ reduced, which is ok though... 'cause I've used ~4k fissures on switch with my FC bear and even 25% of its potential can drop most barbs that roll through it.
Yeah, like you said though... even if they are 2-hand, if they grab some hellmouths, a dwarf, and some spurs gl lol.

Tele-poking them on the off whirl I'll use time to time, but it's really risky... if you think they're coming outta ww and u try to make a jump then they whirl right through you that could be your death.. or free health for them and your in a world of pain. With lvl 52 Griz & 49 HoW, even I can't kill most in less than 3 hits sad to say, so it is a strategy... not always the most reliable though : /


The only thing I might not be right about is how the 1/10 and 1/6 pvp penalties apply for each different thorns effect, but it doesn't really matter for the most part. Thorns on a high HP summon will kill people. Thorns on a player will not.

Yeah I think you're right about the thorns... thorns suffers some crazy pvp penalties with the new patch let alone DR & life leech, so it's pretty much jack against other duelests. But like you said, Summons have 0% DR allowing the full potential life to be returned... and the thorns is only gonna be proportional to its total hit points. That's why I was gonna test whether it'd be better off to go Bramble + edge with oak.. for higher total hp grizzly, or Bramble + edge with lvl 30 SoB if the extra HP's don't really matter.
:thumbsup:

[Liquid_Evil]

If you'll appreciate the irony, as far as I'm aware, the only reason I'm banned is for ignoring a ban. Its not exactly the brightest reason. But no. My information on thorns has been tested and is true.

I can't seem to find your original thread here with your % damage return results, but I know a lot of it was bogus after testing of my own and the testing of friends.

I don't remember all of it, but something you ignored completely was minion life and how it factored into the equation. A quick look at your LLD guide and it looks like the same holds true for it as well.

Your info is counter intuitive because anyone that has thrown a Bramble on their Rabies/Fury wolf can tell you that the spirit wolf meat shields do not dish back thousands of damage to the dismay of unlucky melee duelers.

This is because they have such low life. It doesn't matter if they get smacked by a 30,000 dmg Charge or get punched for 120 dmg by a Sorceress. It will be the same amount of damage reflected if the wolves only have 120 total life, meaning that to exploit Thorns, SoB, and the like, you need to have a minion with a lot of hit points. Those Spirit Wolves in your guide have base life...

In game testing done by nex also indicated that SoB wasn't as effective as Thorns, even when they were supposedly dishing back the same %'s. Iron Maiden also trumped both Thorns and SoB in terms of effectiveness.

So basically, after real testing, we concluded that much of your guide was comprised of bad info and/or theory-crafting.

[Jary]

Yeah, i've read that guide several times. Pretty fun.

I think it works awesome as an lld since you can really capitalize on the thorns effect since DR & leech aren't as much a factor.

Question:
why not lvl ~15 spirit wolves/lvl 30 grizzly, more damage? Or do they just die too fast

My immediate thought though was, I wonder how it'd work as lvl 45 lld.
the extra 10 GC's, +3 ammy and slightly better item selection, would that help the effectiveness or would the other builds just be that much better?

[Liquid_Evil]

Did you serious not read that? God man.

Your first one didn't have that convenient little quote and milked a different angle, so don't try and tell me otherwise.

[Liquid_Evil]

I think you probably got banned for being a troll. And I think I see a pattern.

You can sit there and type whatever you want to try and justify what you had written in your "guide", but we both know it was a steaming load of theory-crafting.

Quit crappin' up the OP's thread and PM me if you have something else on your mind.

[Jary]

Hrmm not sure what ur asking. You can only have a single point into grizzly at level 30, and then max out spirit wolf and put the rest into HOW. The bear is necessary if you want to maximize thorns, for its high HP, and the wolves have much higher damage output. I'm not sure how effective it could be at level 45. I pretty much duel at 9,30, and 90 :)

wups my bad, I = dumb :banghead:

Wups, sry wasn't thinking there :) lvl 30, 1 point griz... right

[Jary]

That seems odd, about comparing them side by side, I've never noticed a difference I'll have to test. I should have the resources soon.

Apparently though, to achieve 1000% returns:

= lvl 20 Thorns
= lvl 33 Iron Maiden
= lvl 49 SoB (so if i woulda maxed it woulda been equiv with lvl 20 thorns... sad :[

Although SoB deffinitely gets the lower end of the totem pole, they do stack... so whatever helps. = )

So what do we know, we could compose a Faq about damage returned:

1) Dmg/Ret suffers the same PvP penalty/s as the physical damage source getting affected. aka, 1/6 against humans... 1/2 Summons.
2) Dmg/Ret gets further reduced from damage reduction. Summons have 0% DR, further helping their effectiveness.
3) Dmg/Ret is only proportional to the HP's of the player/Summon. Any damage exceeding the HP's of the Summon will not give any returns.
4) [w/e I determine between maiden, SoB, thorns]

[Skullbash]

Would the returned damge be affected by DR on the other guy, though?

[Jary]

I believe so, these are things I need to double check but have been told.

One big factor too, when it comes to Barbs & Pallys is Grief.
Grief is not effected by damage returnded (well the +Damage isn't), therefore any Grief/Smiter or Grief/Ebotd BvC will be effected barely little by thorns, and this I know a fact since I've tested with lvl 20 bramble on my Shock-Summoner on East.

[Verashiden]

IIRC Return Damage is affected by opponent's DR.

Vouch the Grief being glitched with return damage. Puma proved that a Wolf using max Hunger and with LT on an enemy can attack with Maiden on him and still gain life.

You can only deal as much damage as the target's max HP. This applies to leech as well as Damage Return.

[Gimmershred]

This is my firedruid.

Openhaard, lvl 90 firedruid.

Ravenlore faceted
Mara's 30
30/30 Crystal sword
Enigma
Spirit
Magefists
Ravenfrost
Fcr ring with 19str, 11allres, 36mana
24fhr, fcr belt, with 11str/50life
30frw, cold/light/fireres boots

10x 3frw/5allres sc
2x fhr skiller
7x lifeskiller
Torch , anni

I put 2points in str, rest into vita
1 in grizzly, 1in oak, rest into firetree.
68%fcr break, 105%frw, 99%fhr, 4152life with bo+1points oak, 820mana, 75res with a bit stack,


Damage, -55%fireres constantly.
Firestorm: 8487-9375
Fissure: 5551-5801
Molten boulder: 1452-1599 physical, 1698-1870fire
Volcano: 1013-1020 physical, 2000-2217fire
Armageddon: 11-13k , can still put 9 more points in it