Conviction / Gimmershred Advice

[earthcrosser]

My Paladin hasn't had any close calls yet but everyone gets lucky. I have 11 unused skill points and around 35 stat points and I'm not sure what else I should work on.

Helm: Rockstopper
Armor: Smoke Russet Armor
Weapon: Gimmershred
Shield: Mosers w/2 PDiamonds
Gauntlets: Lava Gout
Belt: IK Belt
Amulet: +3 Combat Skills Amulet with no other mods
Rings: Cathan's Seal and 3% LL +resist rare
Boots: Sandstorm Trek

Various +% HR and life charms. 75% resists all around. I've maxed Zeal, Conviction, and Holy Shield. I have 1 point in Salvation for party purposes but I don't have any other utility skills. I have around 135 strength after gear and 120 dex, with the rest in vitality. I average 73% block rate and have just under a thousand HP.

Since I'm not doing too much in the way of physical damage I don't know if I should put points into Sacrifice but the only other thing I could think of was pumping Defiance to boost Holy Shield, but even then I either tank mostly safely or I get hit hard and easily by an occasional pack boss.

I'm not using anything in the way of IAS pumping other than the gloves and the weapon's built in IAS. Should I be socketing my helm with a +15% jewel or is that a waste of a socket? What other scrub level gear is good?

My characters don't usually last very long in hell, and I've never played a zealot before. I'm only level 75 so I've still got a bit of skill and stat points to go around. Any advice would be appreciated.

[Pezmaster]

you have a 6 frame zeal, and a 15% jewel wont have any effect on that.

with max convic, your doing roughly 2k elemental dam already, so go ahead and max sacrifice. youll do ~ 800 phys damage with the gimmer.

as far as gear goes, mayber try to get a guillames, and gores or goblin toe. CB and DS are going to help alot with the low damage output you have.

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

I did gimmers on my conviction zealot for a while (on switch, VoR main), but after a while, I changed up for a different weapon and I much prefer it: daemon's arch. The damage is great, the elemental damage is superb (a little less than Gimmers, but consider that most enemies will have an immunity to one of them anyways). The real kicker though is that Daemon's Arch is a range 3 javalin, while Gimmers is range 1. It makes a big difference when I zeal a pack and can actually hit things in range.

Plus it looks wicked cooler than tiny axes look.

Cheers, :smiley:

[earthcrosser]

Gore Riders are probably too valuable for me to get. I can try to get a Goblin Toe if its really that good. Maybe Guillame's Face, too.

I had noticed that I was doing alot more running from monster to monster. I didn't know that there was a range difference other than the difference between spears/polearms and every other melee weapon.

That said, if Daemon's Arch does even less damage than Gimmershred will I have trouble killing things? I already see that it takes me twice as long to take down monsters than other melee folke when I party.

[MalVeauX]

Heya,

Gores is like 8~10 pgems. Guillame's is like 10 pgems. You can afford these things easily since it's just gems. Just play for an afternoon in the Chaos Sanc or other `lots of enemies' areas and you'll be swimming in flawless gems. I like gemming in the Halls in ActV myself.

Crushing blow will have your zealot taking down monsters in melee very quickly. Daemon's arch does less damage than Gimmers' elemental, but it's actually not by much. Most things will have an immunity of some kind, and while Conv lowers their resistance, it doesn't always break them.

In the end though, if you want speed, go with Crushing blow gear. Goblin Toe & Guillame's is 60% right there. Add in 10% crushing gloves (Craft?) and you hit 70%. That's plenty good.

Cheers,

[MYK]

I would putt them in resist lightning and the fire resist aura.

Extra lightning resist is always good, and it will help your gimmers put out more elemental damage.

[earthcrosser]

Resist lightning increases your damage?

[chien]

It will if you plan to use Dream shield and/or helm. It is a synergy to Holyshock. BTW, another suggestion for shield to increase your elemental damage output: Tiamat's Rebuke and it is cheap (pgems?). Just try to find a good resist one (up to 35 resist all) and put a PDiamond in.

Chien

[earthcrosser]

Dream? Hah. That's quite amusing.

If I use a Tiamat's and put a PDiamond in it I'm looking at what, 40ish resistances? Does the extra damage trade favorably with decreased resistances?

[Pezmaster]

imo youd be better off increasing your physical damage with ds cb and max sacrifice (maybe get a faster weap too) rather than trading solid resists/blocking for 500-600 pts of ele dam after conviction.

[chien]

Moser gets 25 RA itself. With 2 PD, it is 25+38=67RA. Tiamat's has 35RA (perfect one). With 1PD, it is 54RA. 13AR difference. Not sure it is a big drop to you or not.

If you are using Goblin Toe, you might consider to use cat's eye ammy or act1 merc with harmony or have some FRW charms. It is really SLOW to me with goblin toe :P

Chien

[Pezmaster]

mosers also has better block than tiamats. again, imo, hed be better off adding ds/cb/speed to his build rather than a little bit more ele dam.
i use gobbys on my ubersmiter, and shift-charge when i want to get around. fast enough for me.

some suggestions:

Helm: Rockstopper change to: guillames/socket with 15 ias jewel
Armor: Smoke Russet Armor
Weapon: Gimmershred
Shield: Mosers w/2 PDiamonds
Gauntlets: Lava Gout change to: IK Gloves
Belt: IK Belt
Amulet: +3 Combat Skills Amulet with no other mods change to: cats eye or highlords
Rings: Cathan's Seal and 3% LL +resist rare
Boots: Sandstorm Trek change to: gores preferably, goblins would work as well.

max sacrifice next, then pump defiance.

this setup would give you 50-60 CB (depending on boots) and 15-60 DS (depending on boots/ammy). it also gives you another attack per frame (90ias, so 5 instead of 4)

gores and gobs and ik gloves are for pgems, so's cats eye, and im not sure of the value of highlords. if you're on east sc ladder, pm me and ill give you a cats eye if you want. (have 2)

thats about the best you're going to get with "scrub gear" as you put it. zealots are great builds, and can definitely take the game with low-mid gear, but they shine with the higher end stuff

gl

[yetidiah]

if at all possible you could try to get hel ko lem gul rune to make rift, or lem ko el eld for voice of reason, both are superb zealot weapons. crescent moon isn't to bad if you make it in a PB for faster speed.

[maiku]

"Crescent Moon" PB is probably best on a Tesladin who can make use of the speed and -35% LR since he's doing a whopping amount of lightning damage that the -LR can enhance. It's also good on a Frenzy Barb or Kickersin, where they can attack very fast and proc Static a lot. The -35% LR and Static are kind of useless when you have other powerful AoE spells procing and Conviction to bolster them. On a Conviction Zealot, I would vote for "Rift" or "Voice of Reason" hands down.

[maiku]

mosers also has better block than tiamats. again, imo, hed be better off adding ds/cb/speed to his build rather than a little bit more ele dam.
i use gobbys on my ubersmiter, and shift-charge when i want to get around. fast enough for me.


Block on a shield is kind of moot when you have Holy Shield. A lot of equipment adds Dex (Ravenfrosts, for example) and a Zealot should have decent to maxed HS. Also Tiamat's can be improved quite a bit by socketing with the appropriate jewel or rune. But the best thing about Tiamat's is that it can be acquired very cheaply and quickly, and after socketing, works as end-game gear for a Conviction Zealot. Conviction makes elemental damage go a long way. Better than a Tiamat's is a 4-socketed pally shield w/ nice resists and stuffed with 4 lightning jewels of 1-100 damage. That's what I'm going to assemble tonight for my Conviction Zealot.

[chien]

Yeah, 4 light jewels are good before you can have your hand on dream shield :) The problem is that it is not easy to get get perfect light jewel (I only find one with 1-9x so far :( ). It would be godly if it is Scintillating Jewel of Thunder :) Hmm...4 of them will give you 60 resist all+4-400 light damage (+ the RA on the shield). Even single resist jewel of thunder will be great, I think (Fire and light resist).

Chien

[Pezmaster]

@maiku&chien - all good points but he asked for skill placements and gear selections that are low end. Saying use dream and kickass ele-dam jewels doesn't really help the guy out. I'm not saying that your suggestions aren't good ones, but that with the gimmer hes pretty much taken care of the bulk of his ele damage, and the best/cheapest way for him to get bang for his buck is to start rounding out his physical damage.

[chien]

IMHO, Tiamat's is pretty cheap (pgems). When HS is maxed, as Maiku suggest, you don't worry about the block anyway.

Chien

[maiku]

Yes, indeed. I've purchased Tiamat's Rebukes for 2-3 pgems here in the local trade forums, and a good lightning jewel with 1-100 or 1-90ish is about 2-4 pgems a piece too. At a few pgems a piece, I don't consider these items particularly expensive. :shocked:

[earthcrosser]

Okay thanks for the feedback. I picked up a Goblin Toe and am trying it out. I haven't noticed much of a difference in killing speed but I probably need to get other stuff to pump up my CB %.

As for the Guillame's Face, and the Tiamat's Rebuke, I'm looking at a sizable loss of resistances with those, even with a perfect Tiamats with a Pdiamond. Is the increased damage worth the loss in resistances?

Rockstopper = Cold +30, Lit +31, Fire +34
Mosers = +61 To All
= Cold +90, Lit +91, Fire +95

Guillams: Nothing
Tiamats: +54 to All (Assuming Perfect)

That's about a 35 point penalty to my resistances.

[Pezmaster]

well, as far as res goes, i've been advocating the middle ground. ditch the rstopper for guillames, keep your mosers. if youre dedicated to doing mostly ele dame then follow chien/maikus advice -> tiamats + ele damage charms are the cheapest options to increase kill speed. but as i've stated you'll get a lot farther by introducing cb and ds into the build. both can be done for teh cheap, but phys will go a lot further imo.

[maiku]

Okay thanks for the feedback. I picked up a Goblin Toe and am trying it out. I haven't noticed much of a difference in killing speed but I probably need to get other stuff to pump up my CB %.

As for the Guillame's Face, and the Tiamat's Rebuke, I'm looking at a sizable loss of resistances with those, even with a perfect Tiamats with a Pdiamond. Is the increased damage worth the loss in resistances?

Rockstopper = Cold +30, Lit +31, Fire +34
Mosers = +61 To All
= Cold +90, Lit +91, Fire +95

Guillams: Nothing
Tiamats: +54 to All (Assuming Perfect)

That's about a 35 point penalty to my resistances.

Guillaume's Face should be socketed with a +10-15 all resist jewel or 30%+ lightning resist jewel w/ other stats. Your most important resists to worry about are lightning and fire. Lightning against LEBs and Gloams who will fry you, and fire against FEs or corpse explosions because it's a nuclear detonation in your face. If you have a Ravenfrost or other equipment providing Cannot Be Frozen, you can be more lax with cold resist. Poison resist is important, but other equipment can usually reduce duration or provide significant poison resist for very little.

[BobCox]

With Max HS that mosers high block is not helping anything but resists and FBR, get a lower base block pal shield you can smite with for better base damage and with some base resists or damage on it and more than 2 sockets and you will be ahead of the mosers once you P diamond it. You can pick up a rare with skills, FBR, base resists and a socket or 2 pretty easy and the Tiamats suggestion above is good with conviction builds with the Max HS any sheild should block well.

[earthcrosser]

? I don't use Smite.

And having high resistances is a good thing isn't it?

[BobCox]

? I don't use Smite.

And having high resistances is a good thing isn't it?

With max HS its still easy & better to take a 30 base resist all Sacred Rondache that blocks at a lower 58% base but still hits the Max Block of 75% with HS up (PAL shields can get Resists in the white/normal versions of 5-45% vs all, this is just for example as one like this dropped for me last game) 4 socket it and add Pdiamonds. The 1 point smite will let you do ubers and now your have the Higher Def/higher resists(106% vs all in this case)/higher base smite shield for it. If you are thinking fast block rates a worry it's not because the first/only breakpoint with holy shield is 86%. Still a better choice any way you look at it and lets face it PAL shields are cool, its the defining item for the Class.

[yetidiah]

just wondering, what realm do you play on earthcrosser?

[earthcrosser]

I'm on US West yetidiah. BTW the Wolf Strider looks great.

So I should be looking for a white + resistance Vortex or Sacred Rondache and use a Larzuk quest to socket it and put some PDiamonds? It'll have 4 sockets so I guess that will have a much greater resistance bonus than 64 and what, more defense? That'll work.

I haven't ever gotten a character this far so I doubt I'll be going up against ubers or anything. Will I be using Smite for anything other than that?

[stephan]

I'd like to dispel thed myth that with HS increased chance to block doesn't matter anymore. HS only adds to the base blocking value of the shield, not to the resulting %block of the blocking formula. For a level 85 pala the difference in dex required for a Mosers and a Tiamats with a level 20 HS is:

85*150/(48+35) - 85*150/(67+35) = 29 dex

which is significant.

[sirmessbu]

While you are looking for your 4 socket shield with high resist also keep an eye open for one with 2 socket.

You can make a "Rhyme"shield pretty easily(shael+eth) it grants cannot be frozen and add blocking chance along with 25%resist all.

Unless your resist are really lacking, guillaume is just too awesome to skip.

[earthcrosser]

I hadn't thought of Rhyme. Again though, its low resistances seem to be a liability to me though Cannot be Frozen is good.

[yetidiah]

unless your playing self found I could give you a few items if you wanted them to help out, just catch me some time im on *yetidiah

[earthcrosser]

That'd be great but I don't just want to mooch off of you.

[maiku]

I hadn't thought of Rhyme. Again though, its low resistances seem to be a liability to me though Cannot be Frozen is good.

"Rhyme" or "Splendor" can go into nice 35-45 resist all pally shields with 2 sockets. :wink3:

BTW, since you're on West, feel free to message me at *OldWest or OldWest2. I can help out with some equipment for a Conviction Zealot or if you'd like to game sometime.

[Tai.]

I just re-read this thread and one thing jumped out at me.

Moser's with 2 P-Diamonds is 63 res all. One of you even did the math: 25+38=63 not 67 okay?

Anyway, if you're set on not losing the 9 res all in the shield slot to go with Tiamat's I'd second a 45 res all Pally shield. Socket it with the cube recipe found on Dii.net and work from there.

2 Sockets - I'd say Rhyme, Being frozen annoys me as a zealot
3 Sockets - Probably can't afford Sanctuary if you're not using VoR, but Anc's Pledge does just fine
4 Sockets - Spirit, Light Dmg jewels or Even PDiamonds.

Sorry if I came across as an ***, but I saw the Moser's res thing listed wrong 4 times and to me that just seemed silly

[earthcrosser]

Wow. I stand corrected Tai.

If I can find a good shield Rhyme is looking to be the best right now. You guys are right, being frozen sucks a bunch. Its resistances won't be too much lower if I can find the right shield.

I have a Spirit Monarch shield on another character but it always looks like a caster shield to me.

I also have all three of my Charsi imbune quests open. Should I be using those on like elite Paladin shields or is that wasting them if I'm already looking at some other shield?

[Pezmaster]

charsi is best used for circlets imo.

[maiku]

Yes, I'll second the circlets; that's what I use most of my imbues for. There's always a chance you can come out with a killer circlet, even if it's not specific for a paladin, and you can use it yourself or trade it off for $$.

[earthcrosser]

Okay, update.

I partied all the way to ancients and everyone else was a caster-type character (a sorc, hammerdin, and lightning zon) so I had to tank all three of them since they seemed to focus on me. I didn't die but I had a bunch of close calls and went through like 6 full rejuv potions.

One thing that was odd, I don't think I ever hit them since I saw neither a burst of elemental damage when I swung nor my leech life visual, nor the reddish splat when I trigger a crushing blow. Do they have an extremely high defense or was I just unlucky? My AR was 3700ish but I thought the defense penalty from Conviction should made me hit them at least once. Or was I hitting and they can't be drained?

[chien]

should be find with 3700ish AR. I only have 2000ish :P With high lvl conviction, you should have no problem to hit.

Chien

[earthcrosser]

Do they have immunity to life steal?

[chien]

You can check http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/monsters/ for LL property of the monsters (under the drain effectiveness). If it is 100, then, you can leech 100%. If it is zero, you can't leech. Conviction can't change them. Sanctuary aura can allow you to leech from undead type monsters (except skeletons). Life tap (ex: Dracul's) will allow you to leech life from anyone :)

Chien