Thorns aura PvP question

[thezerg]

how about to use a lvl 30 thorns aura in duels? i mean in mellee duels...

how the dmg returns is calculate in pvp? because if i see the more of 1000% should be enough to make any character that hit u comite suicide.

or im wrong?

i dont know how the thorns function in duels so if someone can explain me why i never see a pally use this trick in pvp, pls explain me.

ty

[Clervis]

I've heard that if you're a necromancer and you max Iron Maiden, while you wear Bramble for level 21 Thorns and level 13 Spirit of Barbs that then you can be pretty deadly. Haven't seen it in action though. The thing is PvP the game tampers with and nerfs so many things in PvP that you can never tell what somthing is going to do just by looking at the numbers. You have to know the PvP mechanics of that particular subject, which I don't. I just have heard this.

[thezerg]

I've heard that if you're a necromancer and you max Iron Maiden, while you wear Bramble for level 21 Thorns and level 13 Spirit of Barbs that then you can be pretty deadly. Haven't seen it in action though. The thing is PvP the game tampers with and nerfs so many things in PvP that you can never tell what somthing is going to do just by looking at the numbers. You have to know the PvP mechanics of that particular subject, which I don't. I just have heard this.

i think for use this strategy u will need some high life too, in my opinion, to not die in 1 hit, and with necro u cant have so much life like a pala...

[zionhuyga]

i think for use this strategy u will need some high life too, in my opinion, to not die in 1 hit, and with necro u cant have so much life like a pala...
I think he means with minions.

I once tried IMing a friend while he attacked my golem and it took him down to 1 life. So yeah, it should be effective at least with minions. Add an Edge r/w on top of the Bramble and attacking a minion should be pretty much suicide. Very cheap thing to do against zealers and WW barbs.

[clanyiraqy]

Thorns/Iron Maiden and other %return based attacks operate on a special, but fairly simple, function. Basically, instead of taking 1/6 damage from a thorns based attack, an opponent will take 1/10. However, the real bane is the reductions that occur before that. The damage returned by thorns effects is based on the LIFE YOU LOSE to physical damage, not the damage that is applied to you.


So say you have two characters. You have 50% damage reduce, and -30 physical damage. Your opponent has 40% damage reduce, and -10 physical damage. You have 1000% thorns return, and he hits you with a 6000 damage smite.

Smite: 6000 damage
1/6 pvp penalty: 1000 damage
50% DR penalty: 500 damage
-30 DR: 470 damage

So you take 470 damage.

Then, it returns 1000% of 470:

Thorns: 4700 damage
1/10 pvp penalty: 470 damage
40% DR penalty: 282 damage
-10 DR: 272 damage

He takes 272 damage in return.


So despite you having "10x" thorns, he only takes roughly 60% back, overall.
To think about it in terms of the damage of the initial attack, you need to divide by ALL these values:
#1: a 1/6 pvp penalty (for when it hits you)
#2: a 1/10 pvp penalty (for when it hits him)
#3: Your DR%, and -DR
#4: His DR%, and -DR

So it will at MOST be 1/60 of the "initial" damage, unlike a normal attack that only is 1/6. If you both have 50% DR, thats 1/240 displayed to taken damage.


HOWEVER, you can get around this by using summons; the 1/6 pvp penalty doesn't apply for attacks targeted on summoned units, so you opponents 6000 damage smite will deal 6000 damage to a golem or grizzly bear:

Smite: 6000 damage
No further penalties

Your summon takes 6000 damage

Then, it returns 1000% of 6000:

Thorns: 60000 damage
1/10 pvp penalty: 6000 damage
40% DR penalty: 3600 damage
-10 DR: 3590 damage

He takes 3590 damage, and dies.

Hence, an attack on your summoned units will do between 6x to 12x more damage then they would on you.

[The Cow King]

I :heart: claniraq never leave pls, dont give up the fight!

Barbs can still zerk you though.

[clanyiraqy]

yah, unless I'm mistaken zerk actually doesn't do a full 100% conversion as advertised; I've noticed iron maiden'd zerkers taking damage from hitting my summons, something that technically "shouldn't" happen.

Last season, I made a necro named "Iron_Golem", with guess which two skills maxed ;) Good fun for killing people in 1 hit, but every since they removed ironmaiden working on bone walls, its not worked so hot. It used to be all you needed to do was cast iron maiden/bone prison and a barbarian dies.