Crushing Blow

[silverace]

So as I understand it, Crushing blow is sort of like a weak, chance-based Static? I've never been able to observe it's effects, it doesn't seem to help at all! Does it work on minibosses and act bosses?

Got a goblin toe on me concentrate barb, he seems to do the exact same amount of damage with or without it.

[ffejrxx]

more good info

from http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/magic.shtml

Crushing Blow
This is a chance of reducing a monster's health by X% in a single blow.

-Default: 1/4th
-vs. Players: 1/10th
-vs. Hirelings: 1/10th
-vs. Champions, Uniques, Bosses: 1/8th
-with missile weapons, default: 1/8th
-with missile weapons, vs. Players: 1/20th
-with missile weapons, vs Hirelings: 1/20th
-with missile weapons, vs Champions, Uniques, Bosses: 1/16th

The life removed is also scaled with number of players. So that if a monster has 450% more life due to 8 players (or whatever the value is) the life removed is further reduced by the same amount (450% would equal multiplying by 4.5 so the life removed by Crushing Blow is divided by 4.5).

-It is possible to get up to 100% chance for Crushing Blow. Anything above 100% is discarded.
-Physical resistance does apply to Crushing Blow damage, but only if the resistance is positive.
-Crushing Blow Items stack in most cases.
-Since 1.10 Crushing Blow is calculated before your normal damage. So, before doing the damage that you would normally do, there is a chance you will reduce the health of the monster by X% then normal damage apply to the resulting lower life. If you have more than one item with Crushing Blow, the probabilities will be added together. There will be one random check for a Crushing Blow. There is no check for each separate item, so one can not get multiple Crushing Blows in one attack.

[admante]

Try hammerdin vs hell baal then smiter with >50 cb vs baal and see who kills faster.

[purplelocust]

The point about player counts matters a lot- Crushing Blow is generally most useful against high HP enemies (bosses) in low-player count games. And hitting repeatedly quickly or with high chance of crushing blow, it can get the monster's health quickly down to half or quarter or so, where the normal damage may become more of the attack after that.

[Crowd Control]

But isn't it useful to spawn all three at a one player game to get their health set at players 1 and then get your friends to enter the game? Iirc, the amount of health a monster has when spawned depends on the number of people in the game, right?

[double]

Not 100% sure but i thought if the boss spawns 1 player then more join then the exp is not as much I may be completely wrong tho

[stephan]

The point about player counts matters a lot- Crushing Blow is generally most useful against high HP enemies (bosses) in low-player count games. And hitting repeatedly quickly or with high chance of crushing blow, it can get the monster's health quickly down to half or quarter or so, where the normal damage may become more of the attack after that.
Actually this seems very counter intuitive. CB does not receive any more nerfing than anything else except static at higher player counts, so relative to normal damage it should work exactly the same.

Perhaps it's time to use my program that simulates beating up monsters and post some results. :smiley:

[MyDireLife]

i have a lvl 30 concer barb, he uses cb, rattle cage(25%) uped goblin toes(25%) and venom grips, which is only 5%. and trust me i see the difference 55% cb is pretty good, but if i use my eth bonesnap i get max cb, plus 1.1 max dmg, so pretty much if ur lookin for cb, i would suggest investing in some rattle cage armor, thats an easy 50% from 2 items

[silverace]

i have a lvl 30 concer barb, he uses cb, rattle cage(25%) uped goblin toes(25%) and venom grips, which is only 5%. and trust me i see the difference 55% cb is pretty good, but if i use my eth bonesnap i get max cb, plus 1.1 max dmg, so pretty much if ur lookin for cb, i would suggest investing in some rattle cage armor, thats an easy 50% from 2 items

Dammit lol, I DO have a rattlecage but it's ethereal......

[BlargX]

After my merc died from Diablo's flame attack before he got his first blow in, I just beat down Diablo at level 28 with my meteorb sorceress with a mace with 33% crushing blow while wearing full Sigon's set(set comes with high defense and 30% increased attack speed). I didn't even remember to fire off static to take down his health, and cast a few spells, but almost entirely meleed and kept him in hit recovery most of the way through. I only had to drink one health potion and I don't think his attacks ever took off more than a third of my health.

The crushing blow was fantastic! Half his health was gone almost right away, then the melee did less and less damage, and finally when he was at a bit more than a sliver, that last bit took longest of all. But the battle still probably took only about a minute, and after I realized Diablo couldn't do anything to me, I was fearless.

[silverace]

interesting, so not only is the crushing blow like static, but it's physical and dealing 1/10 dmg to bosses hence putting even diablo in hit recovery? That's pretty awesome. I didn't have goblin toes back when i fought diablo but i may go back and do a run on him just to see the effect.

[purplelocust]

CB has one big advantage over static, in that it's effectiveness isn't limited in NM and Hell, by the way.

[silverace]

however it won't work against PI's right?

[purplelocust]

however it won't work against PI's right?

Correct, crushing blow does not work against Physical Immunes.

[MyDireLife]

i just switched my rattle cage for a mage plate peace, so now with my critical strike from my axe mastery, and the +2 to critical strike from peace, i now have 40% chance to do double dmg, with 30% chance of crushing blow, which basically means, if i do max dmg with and adding the cb and cs, i can do 1560 after the -1/10 health from cb, but seriously whats the chances of doin max dmg?

[JME]

i just switched my rattle cage for a mage plate peace, so now with my critical strike from my axe mastery, and the +2 to critical strike from peace, i now have 40% chance to do double dmg, with 30% chance of crushing blow, which basically means, if i do max dmg with and adding the cb and cs, i can do 1560 after the -1/10 health from cb, but seriously whats the chances of doin max dmg?

Skill based and item based critical strike/deadly strike is not additive like that. Each one runs an independent check; although I'm not sure which is checked first, it doesn't really matter.

If you had a 21% chance of CS from masteries and a 50% chance of CS (or DS) from items, you would have a [1-(.79x.5)] 60.5% chance to deal double damage. This is simply an example. To further clarify though, you could have 70% skill-based CS and a 90% item-based CS and this would not mean you would have a 100% chance of CS. Instead, it would be 97% chance of double damage. Remember, CS in relation to DS is also not additive. You can calculate it the way I did or like this, whichever is easier for you to understand:

This is a chance of doing double damage. This bonus is applied after skills such as Critical Strike and any other damage bonuses. Critical Strike (CS) and Deadly Strike (DS) exclude each other.

If you have a 33% Deadly Strike item, and 68% Critical Strike Skill the complete chance to get double damage is:

=CS + (DS/100)*(100-CS)
=68% + (33/100)*32%
=68% + 10.56%
=78.56%
For me, it's easier just to say 1-(.67x.32) but to each his own.

Although the CS granted by peace is based on a skill, I would still think it wasn't additive to the masteries skill CS although I can't say with absolute certainty.

[thegiantturtle]

Actually this seems very counter intuitive. CB does not receive any more nerfing than anything else except static at higher player counts, so relative to normal damage it should work exactly the same. Actually, in higher player count games, CB does more total damage, despite not scaling up. This is because the monster has a larger percentage of it's life left after each hit, so the amount of CB for each hit is larger.


Simplified example.

Monster has 1000 hit points and character does 100 damage with 100% chance of CB.


Hit Old Life Damage New Life
1 1000 350 650
2 650 262 388
3 388 197 191
4 191 147 44
5 44 111 0



Now take that monster, and put it in a 7 player game (4 times the hitpoints).


Hit Old Life Damage New Life
1 4000 350 3350
2 3350 309 3041
3 3041 290 2751
4 2751 271 2480
...


Notice that even though CB does not scale up, the CB damage dealt to the players 7 monster is considerable more for each hit after the first hit.

[onomastikon]

One more question on this if I may:

- Does stealing life/mana factor in to
a. CB and
b. Deadly Strike?

a. From what I can see, it doesnt work with CB. That is, I steal based off the normal damage I do, but if CB kicks in I dont steal more.
b. I can't tell. I can't really tell when DS kicks in for sure, and hard to tell if I leech more when it does.

(Leech doesnt work with Beserk, because that's pure magic damage, right?)

[Mursilis]

Leech works off of the physical damage done, so you are correct that Bezerk doesn't allow leech due to it being pure magic damage. As for DS, no idea.

[MyDireLife]

JME, you just confused the hell out of me......so it checks the skill and then ur item based %? so first 25% from peace, and after that it does it again for the 15% from my masteries? that doesnt make sense man, maybe i interperted wrong, becuase what if both checks hit?

[krischan]

Crushing blow: Add up all percentages.

Deadly strike: Comes from equipment, deals double damage. Add up all percentages.

Critical hit: Comes from skills (barb weapon masteries for barbs, critical strike for zons), doubles damage. If you have both skills (e.g. a barb wearing Insight for some reason), the percentages are added AFAIK.

Deadly strike and critical won't stack, i.e. more than double damage isn't possible.

You don't leech from the extra damage of crushing blows, neither life nor mana and not through lifetap as well, but you will leech from the extra damage of deadly strikes and critical hits.

[JME]

JME, you just confused the hell out of me......so it checks the skill and then ur item based %? so first 25% from peace, and after that it does it again for the 15% from my masteries? that doesnt make sense man, maybe i interperted wrong, becuase what if both checks hit?

Confusing you wasn't my intent, however it was mostly sound information there. Read what krischan wrote too, as that should help in understanding a good bit of it. I'll reiterate anyway since I confused you.

Basically, to address your question, both checks can't hit because you can only do double damage once for each hit. If one check works then there is no need for the other to be applied. This is why deadly strike and critical strike exclude each other as stated in my above post.

However, I already expressed that I was unsure if item-granted CS (in the form of a skill) would stack with your barbarian skill mastery CS or if they would run separate checks. I simply speculated that it did not but said that I couldn't verify that part with any certainty. I'm still not entirely sure, as even krischan threw up the "AFAIK" disclaimer tag. I'm simply one to assume the worst if something is unknown so that I am sure all of my bases are covered. RTB, Orphan, or someone else may be able to share their opinion on that matter as well.

Regardless, CS (from skills) and DS (from items) run independent checks and are exclusive. CS from items but skill-based may or may not.

CB damage does not leech.
DS/CS damage does help leech.

[azazelt]

Try hammerdin vs hell baal then smiter with >50 cb vs baal and see who kills faster.

ooh ooh ooh....me me ...i think i know the answer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:prop:

[stephan]

CS from the amazon skill and from barbarian masteries do not stack. They are rolled separately.

[purplelocust]

CS from the amazon skill and from barbarian masteries do not stack. They are rolled separately.

Aha, I didn't realize. So there are thus three potential sources of double damage. Here is a sample computation of how to figure out the total chance of double damage.

Say you have 50% chance of Deadly Strike from gear, 20% chance of Critical Strike from a barbarian mastery, and 42% chance of Critical strike from the Peace armor giving the Amazon passive skill Critical Strike. Then your total chance of double damage would be:

.50 + (1-.50)*.20 + (1-.50 + (1-.50)*.20 )*.42= .852 = 85% total chance.

[stephan]

.50 + (1-.50)*.20 + (1-.50 + (1-.50)*.20 )*.42= .852 = 85% total chance.
It should be:

.50 + (1-.50)*.20 + (1-.50 - (1-.50)*.20 )*.42= .768
^--minus sign


Perhaps it is easier to write it like:

100 - 100*(1-0.5)*(1-0.2)*(1-0.42) = 76.8%

(Calculate the chance you won't do double damage and substract it from 100%)

[Crowd Control]

Darn Stephan, how come you know all this stuff? I'm putting you on the list with RTB, ffejrxx, JME and TGT.

[stephan]

Darn Stephan, how come you know all this stuff? I'm putting you on the list with RTB, ffejrxx, JME and TGT.
Paying attention when aforementioned people, and a few others (e.g. SSoG, Orphan), start posting has a lot to do with it. :smiley:

I can't say I have discovered anything I know about the game myself. :embarassed:

[ffejrxx]

Darn Stephan, how come you know all this stuff? I'm putting you on the list with RTB, ffejrxx, JME and TGT.
im on a list with Stephan, RTB, JME and TGT :shocked:

thanks CC :thumbsup:

[Crowd Control]

This is a blacklist of people I deeply dislike!! You should've known by now.

[ffejrxx]

is there a way to transfer me to the other list with Orphan, Frosty, Krischan, Uncle_Mike, Stompwampa, ect..

or would i need to pay you in soj's

[Crowd Control]

What's that list about? I might make one for the proper amount of SoJ's ofcourse.

Which reminds me, if you play EuScL I think we should play together sometime. I'm on atm.

[purplelocust]

It should be:

.50 + (1-.50)*.20 + (1-.50 - (1-.50)*.20 )*.42= .768
^--minus sign



Sorry, my mistake! I was trying to do a concrete example to make it clear and I made it more confusing, oops.

[thegiantturtle]

You don't leech from the extra damage of crushing blows, neither life nor mana and not through lifetap as wellThe reason for this is that Crushing Blow is technically not even damage. It's a direct modification of the target's life. Pretty weird, huh?

[BlargX]

Yes, especially since that means even someone with poor melee skills can do enormous damage to monsters with it, even if he's low level.

[ffejrxx]

What's that list about? I might make one for the proper amount of SoJ's ofcourse.

Which reminds me, if you play EuScL I think we should play together sometime. I'm on atm.
idono, i was hoping that you had another list of nice and friendly people

sure, *ffejr30 is my current ladder acct
dont have any really high chars atm, 50 barb, 53 zon, 70 sorc and 71 nec