The DTM Sorceress: Mini Guide

[Jaquiezz]

The Damage To Mana Sorceress

It has been a very long time since I have laid eyes upon a damage to mana build, and only have I ever seen one, which I don't believe touched on the true potential of this fantastic mod. To fully utilize the power of this mod, we need an Energy Shield (ES) sorceress who is in the fray and swapping lots of damage, but who can dish out damage in an effective manner. The first thing that comes to mind is an enchantress, but what type? A ranged enchantress or a zealot doesn't have gear flexibility, and this build requires just that, as it uses several off the beaten track items. So what then... how about a BEAR SORC?

The main idea here is to use Damage goes to Mana items to keep an ES sorc's blue bulb full at all times, and thus a constant buffer before the life bulb. The only problem it seems is that the higher the level the ES, the less effective damage to mana gear is, a sort of diminishing returns, So a balance is needed. That balance is achieved by using low levels of ES (50%,67%,75% etc...) combined with a calculated amount of DTM (100%, 200%, 300% etc...), as well as Telekinesis. Based on the rarity of DTM, 300% and up is unachievable, while 200% is difficult, and 100% is not bad at all.

I am going to mix this in with my Physical Damage Thief Sorc, also a bear sorc, as their goals are extremely similar.

NOTE: I have not made this character yet. This is all theoretical, I may at some point make this character if I have the time and resources, yet for now this is just a concept build

Gear:
Dream Tiara
Dream Grim Shield
Gris Caddy
Naj's Light Plate (Ith'd)
Angelic Ammy
Angelic Ring
Carrion Wind
Nightsmoke
Frostburns
Treks

Switch: Beast/Lidless

This set up gets 140% DTM, 5 frame attack, stacked psn res, tons of light damage, and lots of other yummy stats.

A Prayer Merc Wielding an insight would give massive regen for both life and mana, but is not integral to the build, yet would make you much stronger, and isn't exactly pricey- in fact, most non-twink builds can manage to put together an insight.

Prebuff: If you get your hands on a +3 enchant memory staff you get a prebuff staff that gives you +6 ES/+6 Enchant. If you manage to get a torch and anni, or use some +skills gear to prebuff your ES, you don't have to put a single point in ES. The base staff can be shopped in A2 Normal in about 15 minutes if your not unlucky, and the runes are extremely cheap. Throw this in your cube in your inv. to recast as needed.

Stats:
Strength for gear
Dex for gear
Life And Mana: With the above gear and ES, about a 2:1 ratio after gear such as frostburns and the bear bonus will do- you want extra life to ensure safety- if you hit mana burners, your shield collapses or you get hit with massive poison damage. You also don't need a huge blue orb, since theoretically after every attack, it gets completely filled again. Lag however means your ES should be able to take a couple shots before it can get the damage returned to it.


Skills:

20 Light Mastery
20 Enchant
20 Warmth
20 TK
Rest in Fire Mastery

The Formula

1-(1/(X/(100*Y)+1))=W

Where:
X= DTM% as an integer (e.i. 100, 140, 150...)
Y= Damage taken to mana as a result of TK (e.i. 2, 1, .75...)
W=ES% as a decimal percentage (e.i. .6, .75, .8 ...)

This allows you to take your DTM from gear as well as your current damage taken due to ES/TK and find out what % ES you need to have to keep your blue orb exactly full. This equation gets messed up if you have things such as low/high resists (this equation requires 0 resists to be exact, -poison), PDR, MDR and the such. To test it out simply use a 1:1 ratio for TK, 200% DTM, and you get 67% ES, which is correct- the 1/3 full damage you take to life is multiplied by 2, correlating to a 67% ES.

If you don't know basic algebra, I'm sorry I can't help you, if you have a set up and want to see what %ES you would need, try posting the numbers for some one who can do it (like, me)

Questions, comments and criticism welcome!

[brokensvt]

It's a nice thought, but as has been discussed, isn't truly viable. DTM comes after ES, so the damage is modified by ES then taken to mana and life.

[Jaquiezz]

I have accounted for that in the guide. In the future please read the guide in its entirety before making comments, or at least the part that pertains to what you are saying. I don't go over DTM in this guide, there are plenty of places outside this guide that go over it in detail, I simply outline a character that utilizes it in a way, I believe, is effective.

[stephan]

The Formula

1-(1/(X/(100*Y)+1))=W

Where:
X= DTM% as an integer (e.i. 100, 140, 150...)
Y= Damage taken to mana as a result of TK (e.i. 2, 1, .75...)
W=ES% as a decimal percentage (e.i. .6, .75, .8 ...)
Wouldn't it be easier to write that as (I'm not sure if its correct, my head hurts):


W = X/(Y+X/100)

(where W is in percentages already)

[brokensvt]

Questions, comments and criticism welcome!

I read all the way to this line, and assumed you meant it. The problem with DTM, again, is that once ES modifies the damage you recieve the "leftover" damage can't "create" enough mana to replace what it removed; not to mention the fact that this modified damage also hits your life bulb(a null point, I understand, given the subject matter). The higher the level of ES the more pronounced this effect is(as you mentioned above). A simple example:

We have a Sorceress utilizing 20 TK/20 ES. That's 75% ES iirc, and a 1:.75 ratio of damage/mana used. Our sorc takes 100 damage, and has 200% DTM(good luck with that). Our 75% ES takes 75 damage, which applies roughly 56 of this damage to our mana pool, leaving roughly 19 damage for our life bulb to absorb. With our uber-gawdly 200% DTM, 38 mana is replenished. This is, of course, over-simplified but illustrates the point. We still lost 18 mana. Sure, using an Insight/Prayer merc AND Warmth can solve this to some degree, but then we aren't a DTM "build" anymore.

PS: Using the 140% DTM mentioned above gives us back just 27 mana, or less than 50% of what we lost.

To summarize:

The idea is novel, it really is. However, it's been mentioned(and tried) many times since .09, and doesn't/won't/can't work as intended. The sacrifices to achieve any amount of DTM are too great to have a viable character, and even after achieving an ungodly amount of DTM, won't do what you want it to.

[Arek]

One thing i'm missing here. What about elemental and magic damage? How are these working with DgTM mode?

Edited poison, as it is indirectly mentioned to not work.

[RTB]

We have a Sorceress utilizing 20 TK/20 ES. That's 75% ES iirc, and a 1:.75 ratio of damage/mana used. Our sorc takes 100 damage, and has 200% DTM(good luck with that). Our 75% ES takes 75 damage, which applies roughly 56 of this damage to our mana pool, leaving roughly 19 damage for our life bulb to absorb. With our uber-gawdly 200% DTM, 38 mana is replenished.
Shouldn't that be 25 dmg dealt to life and 50 mana replenished?

[brokensvt]

You're absolutely correct as usual RTB. The baby was awake at an ungodly hour, screwing with my math skills :)

And to further-emphasize why this doesn't work in practice, aren't I correct in thinking that DTM also comes after any DR/%DR gear modifies the damage(thus saving our life bulb)? Hence, even a low 10% DR would affect the rate that our mana bulb fills even futher.

[Jaquiezz]

Broken: I don't suggest 20 points in ES, only as many as you need to properly balance your DTM. The whole point of the formula is to calculate your ES based on how much DTM you have, so you can always have a full mana orb. This isn't a 95% ES sorc, it just wouldn't work.

You are correct in stating that DR/MDR reduces how much damage you return to mana, which is why I recommend having as little as possible, same with resists (actually, as close to 0 ele resists, same idea).

This build isn't going to own. Its not going to be a highly effective 95% ES light sorc, or hammerdin, it is simply using a unique idea that to my knowledge, none have conquered. I don't even think it will be as effective as a regular dual dream bear sorc, but the possibility is there.

Edit: To address the mana return issue. The gear presented is just an example, it can work with any %DTM. Your numbers are not based off of the formula I presented, so it doesn't fit into this build, or they are wrong, because this works perfectally well. 100%DTM and 1:1 TK means you have up to a 50% ES, if you use a 1:.75 TK you can have ~56%. If you can manage the 140% with the gear presented, with a 1:.75 TK you get ~66% ES, taking about 2/3 of the damage delt to you, effectively a 66% resist all- physical, magic and elemental (no poison :( ). This seems, at least to me, an extremely defence, especially when combined with some leach and the bear bonus.

[The Cow King]

Have you built such a sorc?

edit: nvm

[stephan]

Broken: I don't suggest 20 points in ES, only as many as you need to properly balance your DTM. The whole point of the formula is to calculate your ES based on how much DTM you have, so you can always have a full mana orb.

You are correct in stating that DR/MDR reduces how much damage you return to mana, which is why I recommend having as little as possible, same with resists (actually, as close to 0 ele resists, same idea).
You are aware that this is very opposite to the idea ES right. First you are going to sacrifice mana for life, after that you are sacrificing life for mana. I'm not sure in which cases this will be advantageous. You either need a low ES or very high DTM for this to work, of which the first is not really desirable and the latter is impossible. I'm not sure if a DTM build solves any problem an ES sorc usually has. A full mana bulb does not equal survival.

I have not tried it either though.

[Jaquiezz]

Well, thats always been the problem. Again, I doubt I can get past a 70% ES with this build, but 70% ES isn't bad at all. No, this won't save me from everything, but it will certainly make monsters hit a lot lighter.

I think the main difficulty in building this is getting a good mana to life ratio down. I just threw out some numbers that seemed to go well with the theme, but as I haven't tested this, I could be entirely off. This could be one reason why this build won't seem to work, you just don't get the life/mana ratio down.

This guide might seem premature, given that I haven't made it yet, but I wanted to get it down before I lost interest and so I could get other opinions.

[brokensvt]

What you aren't understanding is that mana regen > DTM 100% of the time. I'm done spamming it up, the "idea" has been tried and beat to death.

[Jaquiezz]

I'm going to test this out on twinked SP this weekend and I will post some results, mostly whether my mana stays full, and how that affects my survival. I will mess around with different stats and skills and see how it works.

[Kupa]

Why not swap the DTM mod with something like TIR runes or other sources of +Mana after each kill -- for instance the occy has +5.

If you are constantly killing (with say +15 to mana after each kill), your mana ball will probably never drop unless you hit a mana burner.

-Kupa

[Arek]

Ok so i actually tested it ingame to answer my own question:smiley: . It seems weird, as DgTM is working with elemental damage from skeleton mages (lighning, fire, cold), but for example isn't working with meteors and fireballs from vampires, or hydras from councils. I didn't test it towards with act bosses etc, since this build isn't my cup of tea. Only tought it might be interesting. Howgh

[Jaquiezz]

Because 30 or so mana after each kill isn't that impressive and really isn't a unique idea. It won't work against bosses, champs or uniques, only against monsters you mass kill. Sure its useful in the chaos sanc, but it won't be the difference between life and death.

Arek: Thanks for the info, I will make sure I take a look at that when I test this stuff out. It might have something to do with damage that is constantly being applied, such as the fire leftover from the meteor and fire wall, but I don't see why that would be.

[Kupa]

But you will never get back enough mana from DTM with Energy Shield, with Mana after each kill you will get far more for each monster you kill.

And correct me if I'm wrong, but running bosses is not the only thing such a sorceress would do. For instance, if you built the sorceress around Nova (with a high energy shield and +light skills) you would never run out of mana with sources of +mana after each kill -- running cows or wherever, thus freeing the need for insight on you or a mercenary.

-Kupa

[Jaquiezz]

Again, this is DTM build, and yes, you will get enough mana back as you can have more than 100% DTM, as well as TK.

[Jaquiezz]

For all you unbelievers, I just took the gear I mention, or something close to it, a level 13 (65% ES), turned on to players 8, proceeded to the world stone keep and lost exactly 0 mana (I amped up my life to like 16k to just make sure). However, when I proceeded to tavincle, it appears that the heirophants lightning attack deminishes your mana. I can't figure out why, as all damage should be treated the same, but this could be a bug or a facet of DTM that wasn't previously known. I'm going to experiment with different %ES and amount of mana to see if this helps, but I'm sort of stumped at this point.

[Kupa]

But that defeats the purpose of using Energy Shield doesn't it? The point, I thought, is to utilize ES to lose as little life as possible, which means having a high ES.

As was mentioned before, if you have a 95% ES, DTM will return almost no mana. Otherwise, why bother with a lower ES? The point is to take less damage, not some damage to keep your mana up (otherwise, woudln't you just rely on insight?)

-Kupa

[Arek]

The thing with hierophants is the same as ones with the vampires and councils. DgTM isn't working with their attacks. You can see it nicely. When DgTM works, you see the "mana leech" glow on your character. That glow is missing against hierophants, indicating DgTM doesn't work. Here stands a question, in how many cases DgTM doesn't work and why? I'm sure it was already answered by some source expert, answer lying under an electronic dust..

Kupa: I see the main idea in absorbing as much damage with ES as possible and recover as much mana as possible at the same time, trying to find the best attitude. For example 95 ES is way too much, while 50 ES is too low, finding 65 ES as a nice compromise (i didn't count it myself, using Jaquiezz's numbers). It's a little hard to imagine, but theres a nice logic.

(Exuse my bad english)

[Jaquiezz]

Finally, some one who actually comprehends what I'm doing here.

I can't tell if DTM isn't working, or if its just not working like it should. The blue swirl can only appear so many times, I guess you could say it has its own cast rate. I never am able to get hit just by a lightning beam and not other attacks, so I can't tell.

[Arek]

If you want to see if the actual attack is working, you have to separate it:hide: .

[Gimmershred]

The amount of DTM% that is realistic on a sorc would be around 110%.
(Nightsmoke belt+ Ithed Naj)

Now let's see what es% fits with that to gain back all mana with 20 points in telekineses.

If you get a es% of 60
Say you take a hit of 100 damage
then 60*0.75= 45 mana is lost and 40 life is lost
1.10*40 = 44 mana is regained

So you effectivily reduce a hit that without es would take 100 life to only 40 life and 1 mana lost (It could be compared as 60% dr in case of physical damage)

Now what happens if you have 95% es with 0%dtm with a hit of 100 damage.
95*0.75 = 71 mana lost , 5 life lost

Draw your own conclusions, but it should work just fine.

[Jaquiezz]

Thanks Gimmer.

Due to the fact that some attacks seem to drain mana any ways, I don't know how this will work in PvM. It seems to be only some ele attacks, I really can't figure it out. I might try this in PvP just to mess around with a variation on this gear, I'll have to test it out some.

[sirpoopsalot]

Hmmmm.... this as off-the-wall idea, and it probably wouldn't work very well (because you'd have to drop a 'dream' shield), but...


What if you used a Serpent Lord staff that's upgraded to Stalagmite?

Serpent Lord
+30-40% Enhanced Damage (varies)
+50% Damage To Undead
+12 Poison Damage Over 3 Seconds
100% Mana Stolen Per Hit
-50% Target Defense
+10 to Mana
Poison Resist +50%
-1 To Light Radius


... even with a moderately slow attack (~12 frames), you could leech ~230 mana per second with it as a stalagmite, and the -50% Enemy Defense and the 50% PResist obviously are a bonus. Plus you get a bonus for undead, which would boost you closer to 300 mana leech per second.

The question is, can you maintain your killspeed sufficiently? And can you get sufficient IAS to make the speed bearable?


Edit: Yes, I know it's a DTM build, but I still don't see pure-DTM being worth a damn. One mana-burn pack is all it will take to make you look foolish. This way, if you can score a hit you'll always have mana.

[Jaquiezz]

I've thought about that staff as well, but when you really think about it, your probably better off just getting a fast hitting weapon with better damage and getting some off weapon leach, it would be a lot more viable. I think an all out DTM build is viable, just difficult. I don't know that it will work PvM, but I'm going to experiment in PvP with it.

[ZtruK]

The amount of DTM% that is realistic on a sorc would be around 110%.
(Nightsmoke belt+ Ithed Naj)

Now let's see what es% fits with that to gain back all mana with 20 points in telekineses.

If you get a es% of 60
Say you take a hit of 100 damage
then 60*0.75= 45 mana is lost and 40 life is lost
1.10*40 = 44 mana is regained

So you effectivily reduce a hit that without es would take 100 life to only 40 life and 1 mana lost

If 40 PDR could be fit in with the 110 DTM you could go to dinner with 6 things beating on you and have full life/mana when you returned.