Demon Crossbow, any good?

[Romasm]

It says -60speed, so that would be the fastest weapon in the game

But i also heard that Xbows are slow, although it says very fast. Whats up with this?

If i would make Faith in it, would it be extremely fast (speedwise) or still sucky?

Thanx:wave:

[stfrn]

Check out the Amazon ias/fcr/etc tables (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=582627). With 0ias, a normal attack from demon crossbow hits 12fpa, which is pretty good, but so does a -10WSM bow. And then the x-bow is capped at 11fpa*, so... bows for the win!

*(Just looking at normal attack with no fanaticism, strafe is more of same)

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

The stupid cap ruined Xbows. Stupid Blizzard.

[Romasm]

Thx for clearing this up for me

Its a shame really.. Xbows are just not done

[Ax2Grind]

For Faith, maybe a bow wins, but a 4oS demon crossbow is still the weapon of choice for Ice and other elemental-based attacks, if I'm not mistaken.

[stfrn]

Hm, I don't see that being a good idea- ice already has 20%ias, and most characters will have a little more then that, so you can get faster then 11fpa with a bow. I'd rather use a great bow, and lose 1 average damage, but have the bow usable by act1 mercs.

But, there's nothing wrong with using a x-bow if you really want to :)

[krischan]

If you just need it for the speed, a chu-ko-nu has a WSM of -60 as well and it's an exceptional weapon, so it has lower reqs. A 5 shael chu-ko-nu was the favourite lightning/CL sorc weapon in 1.09 because lightning/CL casting speed was bugged and depended on WSM and IAS.

[NASE]

For Faith, maybe a bow wins, but a 4oS demon crossbow is still the weapon of choice for Ice and other elemental-based attacks, if I'm not mistaken.

you're mistaken. The only (X)bows that are often used are the elite amazon only bows. Gmb and mat. They have the best average damage of thier speed class and they have the possibility to get fast. The only other bow that is used it windforce*.
If you want to use Xbows, you are often looking for a theme build or for a cheap alternative for the expensive bows. Buriza is used sometime and other are possible though in the end, though they don't come close to what a good bow can do.

*: Sure there are other bows that are used, though if you look at the really good bows, you only have 5 that really are a top choise, faith, windforce, ice mostly frostmaiden), wrath and brand. Other just aren't that good though can be much cheaper and still be very usefull. Harmony is one option, wws the other.
If you want, botd and silence are decent too. Though for the price of a faith, you can better get a faith unless you really want some of the mods on botd or silence. botd and silence aren't the bows I would advise for the average player.

[Ax2Grind]

you're mistaken. The only (X)bows that are often used are the elite amazon only bows. Gmb and mat. They have the best average damage of thier speed class and they have the possibility to get fast. The only other bow that is used it windforce*.
If you want to use Xbows, you are often looking for a theme build or for a cheap alternative for the expensive bows. Buriza is used sometime and other are possible though in the end, though they don't come close to what a good bow can do.

*: Sure there are other bows that are used, though if you look at the really good bows, you only have 5 that really are a top choise, faith, windforce, ice mostly frostmaiden), wrath and brand. Other just aren't that good though can be much cheaper and still be very usefull. Harmony is one option, wws the other.
If you want, botd and silence are decent too. Though for the price of a faith, you can better get a faith unless you really want some of the mods on botd or silence. botd and silence aren't the bows I would advise for the average player.
Shame the Paladins can't use GMB or Matbows. I guess that means my Trinitar build is total trash then, along with anyone else that uses the Dragon body/Dream helm/Doom one-hander with an elemental ranged attack... and here I thought a Ranger/Avenger/Missionary combination would actually work, let alone the Ranger by itself. Whatever am I to do with a character that will have well over 98 total dexterity for blocking with and 156 total strength to wear Stormshield anyway?

[Damric]

I like to use demon machine cho-ko-nu for enchantress. also brand is good in demon crossbow for enchantress.

Also -60 crossbows are good for were-wolves/bears.

[Ax2Grind]

You can't use a cross/bow in wereform, so please enlighten me how they're good, please.

[omgwtfbbqpwned]

Yes you can.

In wereform, the 11 fpa cap goes away, so the 80 IAS on Buriza can actually let you hit very fast Fury break points.

[Ax2Grind]

When I try using a cross/bow in wereform, I hear the Druid say "I can't." So this must be one hell of an amazing trick.

[NASE]

Shame the Paladins can't use GMB or Matbows. I guess that means my Trinitar build is total trash then, along with anyone else that uses the Dragon body/Dream helm/Doom one-hander with an elemental ranged attack... and here I thought a Ranger/Avenger/Missionary combination would actually work, let alone the Ranger by itself. Whatever am I to do with a character that will have well over 98 total dexterity for blocking with and 156 total strength to wear Stormshield anyway?


And still, on that character, you won't be using a crossbow unless you need one particular mod on a crossbow. You will probably use a blade bow or great bow.
Same goes for enchantress. You may use a demon machine for the exploding arrow and pierce mod. Though you can just as good take brand with a faith merc. You will have more damage (physical) and faster attack speed. The only option you miss is the pierce, although I would still use Kuko Shakaku over demon machine if I use a faith merc.

anyway, from what I see on bnet, over 75% of all bow user - pvm wise - are amazons. So I really don't get what is so wrong with my post. I may have forgetten about some theme builds that use bows and can't use gmb or mat. Though just take anyother elite bow are the idea still stands.
Unless you want a special mod - or IAS is a huge problem, then you may use a -60 crossbow - or you want I theme build, I don't see why you would use a crossbow over a bow.

[stephan]

When I try using a cross/bow in wereform, I hear the Druid say "I can't." So this must be one hell of an amazing trick.
Perhaps this sounds silly, but you have to equip bolt/arrows as well. :laugh: