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MasterMynd
18-10-2007, 23:27
In other words, regardless of what dropped, or who dropped it, the ilvl of the item will always be at least as high as the alvl whence it dropped.

But who droppped it is what might make ilvl > alvl.

Is that correct?
Darkflight
18-10-2007, 23:47
True for Hell difficulty at least, unless I misread something.
Pillz
19-10-2007, 00:00
yes, normal monsters have ilvl=alvl, champions have ilvl=alvl+2 and uniques have ilvl=alvl+3

I think minions have alvl+3 as well, but im not positive on that.
Rune-Templar
19-10-2007, 00:44
Random unique minions are +2 I believe.
RTB
19-10-2007, 00:55
Random unique minions are +2 I believe.

Their Mlvl is the area_lvl +3.
helvete
19-10-2007, 01:18
EDIT: Nevermind, just tested, and at least in single player, the minions are still the same level as the (super/random)unique.
Also, superuniques (such as the countess) have strange monster levels.
Are
19-10-2007, 01:30
Racks provide ilvl of alvl minus 1.
helvete
19-10-2007, 01:30
No, that's qlvl. The ilvl is still the area_lvl
Are
19-10-2007, 01:36
No, that's qlvl. The ilvl is still the area_lvl

According to ATMA, the item level is certainly one lower than the area level of the area in which they're found, at least.
helvete
19-10-2007, 07:54
Nice to know. Thought it only applied to qlvl, but seems you're right.
krischan
19-10-2007, 13:21
Their Mlvl is the area_lvl +3.

Hmm, Orphan just wrote a few weeks ago that with 1.11 it has been changed to area level +2 for minions (which was new for me as well - I thought it's still +3). See posting #9-12 here (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=582413&highlight=minions). Helvete might remember it :azn:.

Who's right now ? Also, is it different on single player ? I guess it shouldn't.
helvete
19-10-2007, 17:46
I remember that. It might be a server side change?
RTB
19-10-2007, 19:57
Hmm, Orphan just wrote a few weeks ago that with 1.11 it has been changed to area level +2 for minions (which was new for me as well - I thought it's still +3). See posting #9-12 here (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=582413&highlight=minions). Helvete might remember it :azn:.

Who's right now ? Also, is it different on single player ? I guess it shouldn't.
I guess I'm just outdated.
Raskah
19-10-2007, 20:50
ok... i got all messed up with this post...:confused2:

ilvl >= alvl ?! What's the point of this?

alvl is based on ilvl (and qlvl for rares and crafted items) and not the opposite...

As far as i know (my knowledge of item generation its not that good :scratch: ), ilvl = mlvl

Mlvl = area lvl (normal monsters)
= area lvl +1 (champions)
= area lvl +2 (minions)
= area lvl +3 (unique monsters)

AM i wrong?
helvete
19-10-2007, 23:07
I guess I'm just outdated.

I tested this in single player, using ATMA. Found a white balrog skin with ilvl 88 in the river of flame. That's quite the x-file if Orphan is correct.

However, isn't it possible that the change was bnet only, and just wasn't included for SP?
MasterMynd
20-10-2007, 00:00
ok... i got all messed up with this post...:confused2:

ilvl >= alvl ?! What's the point of this?

alvl is based on ilvl (and qlvl for rares and crafted items) and not the opposite...

As far as i know (my knowledge of item generation its not that good :scratch: ), ilvl = mlvl

Mlvl = area lvl (normal monsters)
= area lvl +1 (champions)
= area lvl +2 (minions)
= area lvl +3 (unique monsters)

AM i wrong?

To answer your question: The point is that I want to be able to determine where to MF for items of a certain ilvl.

Here's how I understood it.
alvl = "Area" level ("area" as in "where on the map")
ilvl = "Item" level ("item" as in "an object droppped by a monster")
qlvl = "Quality level" (as documented in the "Quality Level" column of the Items database on the Arreat Summit website)
mlvl = "Monster Level" (as in "Hell Ball is mlvl 99" - or whatever he is)
MasterMynd
20-10-2007, 00:11
ilvl >= alvl ?! What's the point of this?

The point is that I want to be able to determine where to find items of a certain ilvl.

Here's how I understood it.
alvl = "Area" level ("area" as in "where on the map")
ilvl = "Item" level ("item" as in "an object droppped by a monster")
qlvl = "Quality level" (as documented in the "Quality Level" column of the Items listings on the Arreat Summit)
mlvl = "Monster Level" (as documented in "The Bestiary" on the Arreat Summit)

Based on those definitions, alvl cannot be dependent on ilvl.

Of course, if those definitions are wrong, then i need to go back to the drawing board. :undecided:

EDIT: Sorry for the double post. It wasn't done on purpose. Some kind of lag spike hit when I was doing an edit and clicking twice on the "post reply" button during the lag resulted in what you see. (Note the post count on both.)
Raskah
22-10-2007, 20:15
I'm sorry i assumed that "alvl" was "affix lvl" not "area lvl"! We have diferent interpretations! :grin:

In that case the item lvl is always >= area lvl and the relation between ilvl, mlvl and area lvl that i refered in my last post is still valid.

Sorry about my mistake. I was really messed up!! :laugh:
thegiantturtle
22-10-2007, 22:16
I'm sorry i assumed that "alvl" was "affix lvl" not "area lvl"! We have diferent interpretations! :grin: That's because it's generally accepted here that alvl means "affix level." For "area level," we use area_lvl, just like you did in your post. The OP didn't follow the standard convention. It's surprising that correction wasn't made sooner.


Also, note that the relationship is really ilvl = mlvl. In nightmare and hell, monsters that are not act bosses have there mlvl determined by the area_lvl. In normal, mlvl is hardcoded by monster type.
helvete
22-10-2007, 22:26
Well, but there are ways to get items without killing monsters. There's chests, racks, and some superuniques (and their minions?) which are sometimes hard to figure. 95%+ of all people don't MF seriously in normal, so I haven't even started that one..
Ax2Grind
22-10-2007, 23:00
ALvl = Affix LeVeL
CLvl = Character LeVeL
ELvl = arEa LeVeL
ILvl = Item LeVeL
MLvl = Monster LeVeL
QLvl = Quality LeVeL
RLvl = Required LeVeL
SLvl = Spell LeVeL

I think that's it. Area levels made things confusing, but using ELvl fixes that.
MasterMynd
23-10-2007, 17:10
That's because it's generally accepted here that alvl means "affix level." For "area level," we use area_lvl.

Ok, my bad.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Peace.
thegiantturtle
23-10-2007, 19:05
Ok, my bad.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Peace.No problem. I've probably had to be set straight more times than you've even posted ;)