barb double swing/frenzy bonus question

[sleeptown]

I've heard a few mixed answers. Can anyone confirm?

If I run frenzy and then double swing, do I still get the damage and attack bonus from frenzy?

"Select Frenzy, equip two weapons and hit the enemy. When the Barbarian makes a successful hit on the enemy, he will go into a Frenzy. The Barbarian can now in his Frenzy state, move much quicker and swing much faster. You can even combine this skill with other skills, after going into a Frenzy, quickly change to another skill and use it in combination with Frenzy.

Frenzy increases in attack speed as more monsters are hit."

I've heard a few mixed answers. Can anyone confirm?

If I run frenzy and then double swing, do I still get the damage and attack bonus from frenzy?

"Select Frenzy, equip two weapons and hit the enemy. When the Barbarian makes a successful hit on the enemy, he will go into a Frenzy. The Barbarian can now in his Frenzy state, move much quicker and swing much faster. You can even combine this skill with other skills, after going into a Frenzy, quickly change to another skill and use it in combination with Frenzy.

Frenzy increases in attack speed as more monsters are hit."

Anyone!? I'm starting tomorrow and double swing is my first skill I put points in to!

[Crowd Control]

Try your luck in the Barbarian specific subforum. Those people are the best at those questions. But before that, try to search that specific question. It might already have been answered before you even popped the question :)

gl

[kolomophoi]

i had a throw barb last ladder
and frenzy is useless in my opinion

[MrKaxe]

It is worth one point imho...the little extra IAS and FRW shouldn't be relied on for meeting bp's or anything but it can be helpful...it's been a while since i made a Thrower but they are an awesome character to play if used correctly...

[thegiantturtle]

If you charge up frenzy, you will remain frenzied for 6 seconds, gaining the IAS% and FRW%

[JME]

i had a throw barb last ladder
and frenzy is useless in my opinion

...it's been a while since i made a Thrower but they are an awesome character to play if used correctly...

Who said anything about a thrower? He was referring to double swing and frenzy.:scratch:

Anyway, as TGT said, you maintain the speed and frw for a short period but the damage bonus only applies to frenzy. The skill description is here (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/barbarian-combatskills.shtml#frenzy).

[sleeptown]

Who said anything about a thrower? He was referring to double swing and frenzy.:scratch:

Anyway, as TGT said, you maintain the speed and frw for a short period but the damage bonus only applies to frenzy. The skill description is here (http://www.battle.net/diablo2exp/skills/barbarian-combatskills.shtml#frenzy).

Bah! Hrm.

If attack and damage from frenzy applied to double swing I guess there would be alot more frenzy/double swing barbs running around since it would be devastating. I didn't notice an increase in damage or attack when I played either. Bah.

Thanks for help. 555%+ damage and 303%+ attack is possible without a horrible amount of effort from frenzy alone. Friggen only if double swing got that as well.

[sleeptown]

well, im still interested in barb why not.

what about this.
lvl20 shout
lvl20 bo
lvl20 sword
lvl20 iron skin
lvl20 frenzy
lvl1 battle command
lvl4 taunt
lvl1 natural resistance
lvl1 speed
lvl1 stamina
lvl1 bash
lvl1 double swing
lvl1 double throw
that way I still can use battle command at over 5 minutes.

with frenzy, if you keep swing frenzy over and over, does it keep restarting? If so then I have to go another route. If not then it could be more useful then I expected.

To clarify, is it possible to frenzy for 10 minutes straight and not have your weapon speed and regular speed start over? Now I need absolutely massive amounts of ias.

[thegiantturtle]

well, im still interested in barb why not.

what about this.
lvl20 shout
lvl20 bo
lvl20 sword
lvl20 iron skin
lvl20 frenzy
lvl1 battle command
lvl4 taunt
lvl1 natural resistance
lvl1 speed
lvl1 stamina
lvl1 bash
lvl1 double swing
lvl1 double throw
that way I still can use battle command at over 5 minutes.

with frenzy, if you keep swing frenzy over and over, does it keep restarting? If so then I have to go another route. If not then it could be more useful then I expected.

To clarify, is it possible to frenzy for 10 minutes straight and not have your weapon speed and regular speed start over? Now I need absolutely massive amounts of ias.As long as you hit an enemy once over 6 seconds, you won't lose your charge. I also strongly recommend Axes over swords. There are more solid Axe options than sword options.

On top of that, there's an interesting weapon speed bug with frenzy that occurs when you equip weapons backwards. You might want to check it out and see if you like it.

[Crowd Control]

On top of that, there's an interesting weapon speed bug with frenzy that occurs when you equip weapons backwards. You might want to check it out and see if you like it.

How does that work? Or do I have to check the Barb forums for that? :scratch:

[thegiantturtle]

How does that work? Or do I have to check the Barb forums for that? :scratch:The Barb forums actually fought me on the bug a couple times. But a targeted google search will find it well documented from people with very good knowledge of how the games works.


WSM for frenzy is normally taken as the average of the WSM of your two weapons.

If you make the normal offhand weapon (right side of the screen), the primary weapon (By forceably equipping your weapons backwards), The WSM will be the average of the two weapons WSM + primaryWSM - offHandWSM.

Example:
1) Phase blade (WSM -30) on the left side of the screen and Hydra Edge (WSM +10) on the Right Side. Phase Blade as Primary Weapon:

Total WSM would be (-30 + 10)/2 = -10

2) Same setup, but Hydra Edge as primary weapon: WSM = (10 + -30)/2 + 10 - (-30) = 30

3) Phase Blade on Right, Hydra Edge on Left. Hydra Edge primary:
WSM = (10 + -30)/2 = -10

4) Same as 3, but Phase blade primary:
WSM = (-30 +10)/2 + (-30) - 10 = -50


Examples 1 and 3 are what happen you enter a game, hit weapon switch, and loot your corpse. They're how WSM is supposed to work. Examples 2 and 4 display the bug. The more different the speeds of the weapons, the more the bug changes WSM.

[Crowd Control]

Does this have to do with the order in what weapon you equip last (being the primary hand?)

[thegiantturtle]

Does this have to do with the order in what weapon you equip last (being the primary hand?)Yea. If the weapon on the right side of the screen is primary, frenzy weapon speed is bugged.

If the primary weapon is faster than the secondary weapon, then the bug is a very good thing. If the primary weapon is slower than the secondary weapon, then the bug is a very bad thing. If the two weapons are the same speed, the bug cancels itself out.

[krischan]

i had a throw barb last ladder
and frenzy is useless in my opinion

Frenzy is one of the most awesome skills in the game. Not because it's so efficient, but it's so much FUN to go faster and faster and faster !!!

[JME]

well, im still interested in barb why not.

what about this.
lvl20 shout
lvl20 bo
lvl20 sword
lvl20 iron skin
lvl20 frenzy
lvl1 battle command
lvl4 taunt
lvl1 natural resistance
lvl1 speed
lvl1 stamina
lvl1 bash
lvl1 double swing
lvl1 double throw
that way I still can use battle command at over 5 minutes.

with frenzy, if you keep swing frenzy over and over, does it keep restarting? If so then I have to go another route. If not then it could be more useful then I expected.

To clarify, is it possible to frenzy for 10 minutes straight and not have your weapon speed and regular speed start over? Now I need absolutely massive amounts of ias.

May I suggest:
WARCRIES
1 Battle Command
1 Battle Cry (prereq for warcry and can be useful against tough bosses)
1 War Cry (awesome crowd control skill)
20 BO
10+ Shout
2 Prereqs (Howl, Taunt)
35+ Points

MASTERIES
20 Sword or Axe Mastery (Both are fine choices as far as I'm concerned, just stick with one)
1 Increased Stamina (prereq)
1 Increase Speed
1 Iron Skin
1 Natural Resist
24 points

COMBAT SKILLS
20 Frenzy
1 Berserk (iron maiden life saver and 1 point PI solution)
1 Leap (Useful for mobility)
20 Double Swing (synergy and prereq for Frenzy)
5 other prereqs (Bash, Double Throw, Stun, Concentrate)
42+ points

That's a total of 101 skill points which would be done at level 90 after all skill quests. After that it would be up to you but the best choices would be shout for more defense or Taunt for more frenzy damage (synergy). I'd suggest this setup for several reasons. Mainly, frenzy is an offensive build and should reflect such. Throwing a whole lot into defense won't save you from getting hit. The goal with the frenzy barb is a powerful defense through a powerful offense...basically kill as many monsters as fast as possible so that they can't hit you. I've probably made 7 frenzy barbs and that is by far my favorite skill placement. I don't like to count all my points as if I'm getting to level 99 because...well that's just not very practical.

I favor maxing double swing over taunt because if you are in a tough pack of mana burn monsters a maxed double swing is a mana-free skill. In fact, it even heals your mana. Taunt can also be useful but I find that when I do use it my 1 base point and +skills make it effective enough to suit it's purpose. However, keep in mind that you can start tossing additional points in taunt after level 90. Of course, another option is to put a 10/10 split between taunt and double swing. At level 9 double swing has a zero mana cost and at level 10+ it starts to have a negative mana cost. Taunt, on the other hand, can be useful against those annoying creatures that run away from you. Keep in mind you're a frenzy barb though so running them down is easier than it is for most. :wink3:

In addition, if you find that you do need some extra crowd control spamming war cry now and then while tearing through a mob will more than do the trick. Frenzy is an awesome skill and once you get where you can effectively control him even when he's moving at an incredible speed you'll really start to have a blast.

Also, your last question has already been answered: As long as you hit something within 6 seconds you don't lose your speed burst.

*Looks at TGT, takes notes* :thumbsup:

[thegiantturtle]

I favor maxing double swing over taunt because if you are in a tough pack of mana burn monsters a maxed double swing is a mana-free skill. In fact, it even heals your mana. Taunt can also be useful but I find that when I do use it my 1 base point and +skills make it effective enough to suit it's purpose. However, keep in mind that you can start tossing additional points in taunt after level 90. Of course, another option is to put a 10/10 split between taunt and double swing. At level 9 double swing has a zero mana cost and at level 10+ it starts to have a negative mana cost. Taunt, on the other hand, can be useful against those annoying creatures that run away from you. Keep in mind you're a frenzy barb though so running them down is easier than it is for most. :wink3:

In addition, if you find that you do need some extra crowd control spamming war cry now and then while tearing through a mob will more than do the trick. Frenzy is an awesome skill and once you get where you can effectively control him even when he's moving at an incredible speed you'll really start to have a blast.Frenzy is normally considered an offensive build, and despite the lack of a shield, it can be a pretty good defensive build as well. I'm for pumping defense skills and getting the highest defense gear possible on a frenzy barb. My frenzy barbs were always so fast, I saw no reason to ever be running, and then would get full benefit from the high defense (instead of the occasional benefit most barbs get).

If you care about your life, another option to go with is a decently pumped warcry (about 10-15 points) for a multiple second freeze of your enemy. If I were to go the warcry route, I'd also get battle cry, and then completely ignore my AR.

*Looks at TGT, takes notes* :thumbsup:hehe.

[sleeptown]

May I suggest:
WARCRIES
1 Battle Command
1 Battle Cry (prereq for warcry and can be useful against tough bosses)
1 War Cry (awesome crowd control skill)
20 BO
10+ Shout
2 Prereqs (Howl, Taunt)
35+ Points

MASTERIES
20 Sword or Axe Mastery (Both are fine choices as far as I'm concerned, just stick with one)
1 Increased Stamina (prereq)
1 Increase Speed
1 Iron Skin
1 Natural Resist
24 points

COMBAT SKILLS
20 Frenzy
1 Berserk (iron maiden life saver and 1 point PI solution)
1 Leap (Useful for mobility)
20 Double Swing (synergy and prereq for Frenzy)
5 other prereqs (Bash, Double Throw, Stun, Concentrate)
42+ points

That's a total of 101 skill points which would be done at level 90 after all skill quests. After that it would be up to you but the best choices would be shout for more defense or Taunt for more frenzy damage (synergy). I'd suggest this setup for several reasons. Mainly, frenzy is an offensive build and should reflect such. Throwing a whole lot into defense won't save you from getting hit. The goal with the frenzy barb is a powerful defense through a powerful offense...basically kill as many monsters as fast as possible so that they can't hit you. I've probably made 7 frenzy barbs and that is by far my favorite skill placement. I don't like to count all my points as if I'm getting to level 99 because...well that's just not very practical.

I favor maxing double swing over taunt because if you are in a tough pack of mana burn monsters a maxed double swing is a mana-free skill. In fact, it even heals your mana. Taunt can also be useful but I find that when I do use it my 1 base point and +skills make it effective enough to suit it's purpose. However, keep in mind that you can start tossing additional points in taunt after level 90. Of course, another option is to put a 10/10 split between taunt and double swing. At level 9 double swing has a zero mana cost and at level 10+ it starts to have a negative mana cost. Taunt, on the other hand, can be useful against those annoying creatures that run away from you. Keep in mind you're a frenzy barb though so running them down is easier than it is for most. :wink3:

In addition, if you find that you do need some extra crowd control spamming war cry now and then while tearing through a mob will more than do the trick. Frenzy is an awesome skill and once you get where you can effectively control him even when he's moving at an incredible speed you'll really start to have a blast.

Also, your last question has already been answered: As long as you hit something within 6 seconds you don't lose your speed burst.

*Looks at TGT, takes notes* :thumbsup:

awesome thanks everyone for your experienced tips :-) Much appreciated. I forgot about those damn creatures that steal mana and double swing mana bonus. Awesome stuff.

Why does no one choose to go lvl20 iron skin? With 10+skill bonuses on lvl20 iron skin, you could get 8400 extra defense on a 2000 defense armor alone.

Warcry doesn't work against bosses does it? If it does, Frenzy on left, warcry on right, second pair of +war cry weapons with battle command, shout, then bo..simple, yet they all work with each other for a very scary melee character.


Also, if I'm not mistaken, a lvl20 frenzy with maxed IAS on both weapons will be faster than a double swing with maxed IAS on both weapons. Isn't double swing considered a single attack?

So far, this is what I got.
lvl20 sword
lvl10 iron skin (if I ever get past lvl90, then +iron skin)
lvl20 bo
lvl20 shout
lvl20 frenzy
lvl2-3 double swing(i don't need +mana and I will have around 5-10+ skills)
lvl1 stamina, speed, natrual resist, beserk, leap, bash, double throw, stun, concentrate

What do you guys think?

an extra 80%+ damage or 100%+ defense for frenzy barb? (lvl11 iron skin, lvl20 shout, lvl3 double swing vs lvl1 iron skin, lvl20 shout, lvl13 double swing)
332%+ damage & 410%+ defense or 412%+ damage % 310% defense...? No shield used.