Questions about Avenger Build

[ecdhduy]

Hey guys, Ive been thinking about making an avenger pally (conviction aura and vengeance main attack) and had some questions about gear.

Dream helm/shield
Highlords/seraph's/metalgrid
fortitude archon plate (or should it be dusk shroud)
string of ears/tgods
ravenfrost/bk
lavagouts
infernostrides

The big question is what weapon to use. I've been thinking about making a Famine runeword in either a small crescent or bezerker axe. Any suggestions on if this gear will be good for the build or not?

[zarirazz]

1. find a good high damage weapon (less grief of course) to go for a 1 hit KO
2. fast weapon to attain a nice attack speed with other gear. 9 frames or 8 frames should be good

so eOath or eBOTD would fit nicely in the dmg/speed category.
famine has relatively good dmg + supplementary elemental dmg but slower speed.

[Norrit]

Hey guys, Ive been thinking about making an avenger pally (conviction aura and vengeance main attack) and had some questions about gear.

Dream helm/shield
Highlords/seraph's/metalgrid
fortitude archon plate (or should it be dusk shroud)
string of ears/tgods
ravenfrost/bk
lavagouts
infernostrides

The big question is what weapon to use. I've been thinking about making a Famine runeword in either a small crescent or bezerker axe. Any suggestions on if this gear will be good for the build or not?


I'd use an andy visage for helm and a hoz for shield (both socketed with 15% ias jewel) because of the +skills and high resists. If you're really rich, you could instead use and exile shield. Dream would be very welcome, but perhaps your merc can make better use of it, as well as the Fortitude Armor (try it on dusk shroud because of the lower str reqs). I'd recommend the Chains of Honor for armor, based on archon plate (high resists and +2 to all skills, plus increased dmg against demons is very nice).

As for ammy/rings, Highlords is great for the IAS it gives, and while I really like BK I'd advise you to use a SoJ and a Ravenfrost for rings. The SoJ gives a much needed mana boost (remember, vengeance costs a LOT of mana) and add elemental dmg.

Finally, Lava gout and infernostride are excellent choices for gloves/boots, and Thundergods sounds like the best option for belts. You should also try a Verdungo's for the huge boost it gives for vitality (for such a melee-oriented character, vit should be a maximum priority).

If you make a Famine (on 'zerker Axe) your final IAs with the gear I've suggested will be 100% (using andys and hoz socketed, highlords, lava gout and famine). If you opt for the exile shield, then you should aim for a Nosferatu's coil belt for an additional 10% IAS, giving you 95% total, which should be more than enough. Alternatively, you could use a Baranar's star (socketed with a Shael rune) and have a 70% IAS from your weapon alone, allowing much more flexibility with your gear, but bear in mind that a Baranar's Star will deal less damage than the Famine 'zerker.

Hope that helps!

[ecdhduy]

thanks for the replies. it sounds to me like there are two paths for an avenger, stack elemental dmg weapons/items for use with conviction or stack physical dmg stuff to increase vengeance dmg.

hoz and andy's add a lot of +skills, but dual dream adds stacking holy shock auras (on top of avenger conviction) as well as adding +light dmg to each weapons swing.

i also figured that the 300% edmg on fortitude would also help vengeance dmg (that and i like the chilling armor), but according to asmodeus' guide the enhanced dmg thing doesnt add to vengeance dmg ><. I guess the enhanced dmg will help with mana leech.

[Andaryzza]

infernostrides are ok, but wartravellers are great, the extra damage it provides is multiplied by vengeance & synergies.
youd be surprised how big that difference can get

*andaryzza

[Norrit]

I've just thought of something: what about a beast runeword (on a 'zerker axe, of course)? it may be a good weapon for even more flexibility with your gear, and it have some real nice mods (like fanat aura, CB, decent IAS and stuff like that). take a look:

BEAST (5 Socket Axes/Scepters/Hammers)

Ber + Tir + Um + Mal + Lum

Level 9 Fanaticism Aura When Equipped
+40% Increased Attack Speed
+240-270% Enhanced Damage (varies)
20% Chance of Crushing Blow
25% Chance of Open Wounds
+3 To Werebear
+3 To Lycanthropy
Prevent Monster Heal
+25-40 To Strength (varies)
+10 To Energy
+2 To Mana After Each Kill
Level 13 Summon Grizzly (5 Charges)

[ecdhduy]

what kind of dmg is a good avenger supposed to be doing numberwise on the character screen?

Norrit the beast is nice, but the fanat aura only adds 1 fpa to my build atm (currently swinging at 9 fpa), and i already made my ebotdz (which is fantastic btw).

[Eilo Rytyj]

IMO Avenger is all about getting the highest weapon damage possible. So naturally it's gotta be ethereal or it's gotta be ethereal... yeah. Basically EBotD is the standard Avenger choice for a reason, it offers a huge damage weapon and it's fast too.

Fortitude's 300% ed enhances your Physical aspect of your damage. Say with a high EBotDz, it's ~180-540 weapon damage. Fort will add 540-1620 Physical damage to your attack, regardless of what the Vengeance skill adds. So Fort is an OK Avenger armor, but CoH is better for most situations. 8% DR, higher res all and 8%ll >> Chilling Armor proc and defense.

Dream is only a good Avenger helm/shield because it fits in with your skill build. You'll be maxing Resist Lightning anyway (it's prolly the most useful to max of the 3), Dream just takes advantage of what you've already done. With the full 20 in Res Lit, a single Dream helm adds a nice 1-2200 damage to your attack, two Dreams will be 1-5500? or so. It's been a while since I worked it out, correct me if I'm wrong. I'd personally use either dual Dreams, or just a Dream helm and a HoZ. It's your call, HoZ has better/different defensive mods, while Dream shield is for the damage.

Boots: War Travellers > all. The 15-25 added damage is multiplied by all your enhanced damage multipliers, of which an Avenger has heaps. Like, you'll have ~+1000% enhanced damage maybe? or close to it. So you're looking at adding up to 150-250 damage. Not much but it's the best way to add raw damage to your attack that's not a weapon. Same goes for Bloodfist; Probably the best Avenger gloves, not only for the +5 min, but ofc the 40 life IAS and FHR are just too good.

With an average EBotD, some +max dmg charms, Bloodfist and War Travs, an Avenger is likely to be pulling off ~2000-7000 damage per hit end-game. ~2000-9000 if you're using a Dream helm. You're looking at probably 3000-15000+ with a "perfect" dual Dream setup, which I have calculated before if you're wondering how I got that number... Of course that doesn't include the +ed% to demons/undead found on CoH, which isn't shown on the LCS anyway. Nor does it include the -res% of Conviction... Think 5000-25000 against -100% res monsters, mmm tasty.

They're rough figures, but that's the general idea.

@ Norrit: Beast would not be as good of a weapon. It's non-ethereal, thus the Fanaticism doesn't give as big of a damage boost. Baranar's Star and Famine aren't as good either, because the added elemental damage is a pre-set amount, and the on-weapon damage of those weapons is average at best. You'd be better off with a Rune Master loaded with +ed%/max Jewels or Ohms, again because of the way Vengeance works better with higher on-weapon damage than added elemental damage. Think of it like Charge. Because of the high ed%, you're better off with a big damage weapon like an eth Death 2 hander, than, say, something like a Gimmershred. Weapons with high added elemental damage are better for Zeal and it's speedy delivery.

[ecdhduy]

okay, thanks eilo. im doing around 3k-14k atm with dual dreams and ebotdz. still have 12-13 points to put in somewhere. was thinking holy shield, but i might up salvation.