Best pvp bowzon charms??

[Tiidus]

Hey all just wondered what the best type of charms are to get for a zon?

At the moment im thinking max dmg charms or maybe poison?, which is better out the 2?

Also whats a better amulet for a pvp zon cats eye or highlords and why?

Thx in advance

[SlyFox]

Don't go poison at all. Either Max/Ar/Life gc's if you can afford them or Max/Ar/Frw even Max/Ar work well.

Cats Eye for the frw and dex. Remember the dex adds dmg and the the frw is vital for a bowzon.

[Tiidus]

ok thanks. wouldnt the deadly strike be better though?

[MortIIs]

imo hl > ce, but use hl in combination with gores.

[Tiidus]

well i was thiking of using travs coz alot of ppl says it gives alot of dmg. But thinking bout it gores prob would work better.

[DayDream]

gores won't work better.
Only bowazon vs bowazon is where they act defensive. Every other duels, you will see them charge ontop of you.
The open wounds won't have a chance to works its effect and if you did your skills correctly, your skill critical should be 75%+
Travs gives more damage.

[Tiidus]

well I have max crit and all dex. So travs r best boots for a zon? and what amulet what u recomend?

[kykle]

travs could add up to 400 max in a pure dex zon... for ammy hilords is best unless you dont have much frw (at least 60, but 90 is the goal to shoot for)

[nex]

for ammy hilords is best unless you dont have much frw (at least 60, but 90 is the goal to shoot for)

IMHO 90 is not even close to being enough.

[peterpaulrubens]

IMHO 90 is not even close to being enough.

I agree. Get 120 or die, IMO. 150+ is much, much better.

[inanefedaykin]

My LLD BvC has 121 FRW and I find myself wanting more. Back at the start of ladder when I was PvPing with a harmony bowa using sanders and cats eye I was always looking for more frw.

[WrongdayJ]

I have a question. . .

Why not use Poison charms?

Anytime you can get 1000+ damage over like 5-6 sec. why wouldn't you want that? Stacked correctly, you could even get 500 or 600 over 3-4 seconds. If you can't avoid another player for 3-4 seconds. . .you have no business dueling anyway.

Once they're poisoned, just finish 'em off with any old attack you want. . .like a guided arrow or two. Nothing makes another player panic like seeing their life bubble rapidly empty in seconds. It's very distracting. If they're looking at their health bubble. . .they aren't attacking.

I duel with a Poison Bowie all the time. It's very fun.

The people crying not to use poison are usually the ones getting owned by it.

[Foolishpleazure]

well,I use a few poison charms and they help out a lot.i see nothing wrong with using a few,BUT,I would go with max damage/life SC`s.they help out a lot in duels.and the more,the better.

[peterpaulrubens]

I have a question. . .

Why not use Poison charms?
....
The people crying not to use poison are usually the ones getting owned by it.


Errr... just to differentiate, the people in this thread saying not to use poison charms are not "crying" about it, but rather trying to help the OP make a tragic mistake.

A glass cannon bowazon is all about doing damage NOW. Right now. Right OMFG *NOW* now. Going all-out DEX and then piling on damage-over-time is just a bad way to build a character IMO.

If you're going to use poison charms, go with a vita build. Use Duress and other OW gear. Nothing wrong with a bleeder build but just don't make the mistake of trying to mix glass cannon and poison as you'll end up with the glass but not the cannon.

[KremBanan]

Yeah and dont forget that poison cancels out the Critical Strike

[Summerfun]

Yeah and dont forget that poison cancels out the Critical Strike

Thats just so wrong!

[WrongdayJ]

. . .a glass cannon bowazon is all about doing damage NOW. Right now. Right OMFG *NOW* now. Going all-out DEX and then piling on damage-over-time is just a bad way to build a character IMO. . . .

I see your point PPR. . .but I see mixing the two forms of damage as more of a 1-2 punch rather than a mistake. Single forms of damage can be resisted, or blocked, or energy shielded, or otherwise planned for. . .but multiple forms of damage are harder to defend against. When you have a Pally that has insane defense and block rates. . .you may only land 1 hit. . .you gotta make it count ya know, and you can't rely on the physical component of an arrow to do the trick.

But this is just my opinion and it's based largely on my own theory more than actual practice (although it works quite nicely when I have tried it).

[peterpaulrubens]

I see your point PPR. . .but I see mixing the two forms of damage as more of a 1-2 punch rather than a mistake. Single forms of damage can be resisted, or blocked, or energy shielded, or otherwise planned for. . .but multiple forms of damage are harder to defend against. When you have a Pally that has insane defense and block rates. . .you may only land 1 hit. . .you gotta make it count ya know, and you can't rely on the physical component of an arrow to do the trick.

But this is just my opinion and it's based largely on my own theory more than actual practice (although it works quite nicely when I have tried it).

Even if you stack 6000+ poison damage (which is A LOT.. 12 or so charms of the dupetasticly poofable 491 pdscs), with the PVP penalty that's 1000 raw damage. The Hell length penalty makes that 2000 damage (over double the duration, i don't know what the duration is on 491s). Full res (and even most pubby duelers have full res) and that's 500 damage. The problem is, if you hit them with a second arrow they don't take another 500 damage.. the duration of the poison is just extended. You get a little more damage, sure, but not the full 500.

You're talking 1/3rd of your overall charm space for 500 damage over something like 10 seconds. You're also talking using outrageously duped charms that are silly expensive and most likely highly unperm.

I can tell you this: when I duel with my ES lite sorc, I get turned into a pincushion by the zons that DON'T turn me green. And if poison isn't worth it vs. an ES sorc, well....

[maiku]

Yeah and dont forget that poison cancels out the Critical Strike

No, no, no.

Poison cancels the Critical Strike animation, but not the Critical Strike itself! You still do double damage from Crit.

[mephiztophelez]

No, no, no.

Poison cancels the Critical Strike animation, but not the Critical Strike itself! You still do double damage from Crit.

you get double the PHYSICAL damage component of your attack from critical strike.

poison just reduces the amout of physical damage you do, meaning less of a return from a critial strike roll.

back to the topic at hand: max/ar/FRW charms are the best for a bowazon imho. followed by max/ar/max charms (like a 14max gc).

pile on the damage!

[maiku]

you get double the PHYSICAL damage component of your attack from critical strike.

poison just reduces the amout of physical damage you do, meaning less of a return from a critial strike roll.

back to the topic at hand: max/ar/FRW charms are the best for a bowazon imho. followed by max/ar/max charms (like a 14max gc).

pile on the damage!

Yes, physical damage only. I thought that was apparent.

However, poison does not reduce or affect the amount of physical damage you do. The same applies to other elemental damage charms. Poison damage is calculated on top of physical damage dealt and it is added over time. Poison damage has nothing to do with Critical Strike. Only physical damage is affected by Critical Strike/Deadly Strike, regardless of whether poison is present or not.

[mephiztophelez]

However, poison does not reduce or affect the amount of physical damage you do....

wrong.

by devoting charm-space or gear slots to poison damage, you reduce the amout of charm-space/gear slots that can be used to chase more physical damage, thus having a lower physical damage output.

imho: if you can hit all your other targets (ias/frw most especially) chase some Open Wounds in your gear. it's much better than chasing poison damage from charms.

[maiku]

wrong.

by devoting charm-space or gear slots to poison damage, you reduce the amout of charm-space/gear slots that can be used to chase more physical damage, thus having a lower physical damage output.

imho: if you can hit all your other targets (ias/frw most especially) chase some Open Wounds in your gear. it's much better than chasing poison damage from charms.

WRONG. Please read my replies carefully. This is what I wrote: "However, poison does not reduce or affect the amount of physical damage you do," and it was taken from the paragraph regarding physical damage and Critical Strike. Other part: "Poison damage has nothing to do with Critical Strike. Only physical damage is affected by Critical Strike/Deadly Strike, regardless of whether poison is present or not." If you devote more inventory space to +max damage charms, of course this will increase immediate physical damage output, including what's affected by Critical Strike. I didn't address that in my previous reply. However, I was talking about poison damage affecting or interfering with physical damage doubled by Critical Strike.

For PvP, I would recommend +max damage charms over poison charms, definitely, for the most physical damage output possible. We're talking about the same thing, although I think you're misreading my posts. What I wanted to do was to clear up misconceptions that poison (or elemental) charms somehow cancel, interfere, or block Critical Strike/Deadly Strike or affect the physical damage doubled by it. Poison does not. Other people have proved this, and this myth/lie has been rebuffed countless times in this forum and on AB (for those who know what I'm talking about).

[Smackin]

I dont pvp(as of now), nor do I play bowazons at all, but I'm just gonna sum up what theses guys are saying and add some of my own theories.

First, when dueling as a bowazon, forget life, forget the dam DS, OW, max/ar/life charms. Forget the dam crap, they are NOTHING close to ur priority. Instead, grab FRW, ~175% would be decent, more the better, as long as u dont dramatically decrease ur killing power. after u get to ur desired FRW, focus on ur bow(mat for speedfreak and survivalbility or GMB for dmg and powerfreak?), and work the rest of ur gear accordingly. Cats eye remains on top, despite whatever crap they say about highlords +skills(wtf, are u playing a sorc or bowie?), ds(ur gonna have a very high lvl of CS, and they dont stack), lite res(dude, u really think 35% LR is gonna save u from 13K CS, 12K traps, or 50K lightning? U gotta be kiddin me). Once u've worked out ur equipment, move down to charms. 20/20 anni and torch are no brainers, but what about the rest?

Heres my breakdown for u, u wanna mix in poison with max/ar/life SCs and max/ar/frw SCs, with the occasional FHR ones. Why SC? They offer the best dmg to ratio per inventory. 3x 3/20/20 give u 9/60/60, compared to a GC that gives u 10/76/45 for the same inventory space. Dude, u lose 1 freakin dmg, 16 ar(GA auto hits), but u gain 15 life!!! As bowies, we're glass cannons, which means our vit is gonna suck, and +life is extremely valuable to us, especially after BO. Make sure u first hit 86% FHR, and try to get 1000 poison over 6-8 seconds or 500 poison over 3-4 seconds. Like jay said, it really, really distracts people, ESPECIALLY ES sorcs, windies, and bone necros. If ur too lazy to read all this, heres what u need to get, from first to last:

175% frw
max BP for shooting with whatever bow u want
86%FHR
~2k life after self BO
~3k max dmg
~65% CS
~52% dodge and evade, ~62% avoid
~1000 psn dmg over 6-8 seconds or ~500 over 3-4 seconds
OW
max/ar/life SCs
DS
CB(the occasional high life char with 50% DR and max block, AKA barb and shapeshifters)

Seriously, u shouldnt really try to focus on res, since ur equip isnt gonna give u much to start with, and ur gonna have like 2K life with self bo, which makes u pretty fragile. Remember, as bowies, u wanna run fast, dodge fast, and kill fast. If u like to see a nice 6500 hp, plz go to barb section and build urself an Arnold Schwarzneggar, or the druid section and make urself a nice furry wolf. If u like to see some ridiculously stacked res, plz go to the pally section and make urself a salvation army and help some poor ppl in third world countries. Bowies are distinct characters that truly shine when used in a distinct way.

[maiku]

Yeah and dont forget that poison cancels out the Critical Strike

I think on second thought you were having a sense of humour here and I wasn't when I was reading the comment. I was just checking the old thread on Poison Charms vs Crit Strike, and noticed that you know what you know. :azn:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=5484136#post5484136

[Summerfun]

I think on second thought you were having a sense of humour here and I wasn't when I was reading the comment. I was just checking the old thread on Poison Charms vs Crit Strike, and noticed that you know what you know. :azn:

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=5484136#post5484136

Im starting to think i were to fast to. Diddent realise that you were beeing sarcastic.

[Barcelona]

Guys, where can I find this help from? I dont think i can so i might just ask it here :D

i know that 3/20/20s exist
that is, in this order <max dmg> <ar> <life>

however, wut else can spawn, can these spawn? <max dmg> <res> <life/ar>

or

<max dmg> <frw> <life/ar>

THanks eh?

[nex]

i know that 3/20/20s exist
that is, in this order <max dmg> <ar> <life>

however, wut else can spawn, can these spawn? <max dmg> <res> <life/ar>

or

<max dmg> <frw> <life/ar>

THanks eh?

All charms are magical (except those that are unique :smiley: ), they can have only 1 prefix and 1 suffix, you canot have charm with three mods (max dmg/ar on 3/20/20 is one prefix, fine).

You can get max dmg/ar + life, res + life, max dmg/ar + frw, etc. Charm guide by Corax (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=403178)