Not at all like the brochure..

[moop]

Well I read the Witchyzon guide. I put total faith in the guide that I would be given a strafer that could solo decent pits games. I was very surprised to find out that my zon was absolutely useless in 8 player pits, even with most of the gear suggested by the guide.

So now I'm out of a pul, and pretty pissed off. I didn't think that this build would require godly equipment to be able to do pits..

My setup is upped shaeled WWS, cats eye, Tals Mask, Water walks, raven, carrion, nosf coil, Laying of Hands and Rattlecage(For not being able to find a 3os armour to make Lionheart in).

I maxed Strafe, 17 in Valk, Maxed pierce, and am working on maxing penetrate. I'm level 75, my might merc, the same level as me, uses tals mask, shaftstop and some random elite polearm for not knowing what else to use, seeing as Reapers Toll would screw around with Amp Damage.

After getting jack all from attempting to MF with a fireball/orb sorc, I tried this and didn't get anything but a loss

[Smackin]

How are u stats placement? Btw just so u know, u'll need pretty much advanced gear to be good in a p8 game with strafezon. Also, U might consider lvling to 85+ before doin pits.

[moop]

I have about 100ish into str, 120ish into vit and rest into dex.

I was afraid you'd say I'd need godly gear.

The ironic thing I find, is that you seem to need good gear to get good gear

[Smackin]

Actually, u need nothing to get good gear. U can run with a naked summoner nec and blow up the entire game and get good stuff. U can also use a bliz sorc with wizspike, lidless, stealth, magefist, and whatever mf gear u get ur hands on to run hell with. There are many ways to get wealth, some are easier than others. Choose what u like and stick to it, and u'll see results.

[thepandafactor]

Most of the guides on this site are posted by idiots. Especially the "creative" or "cheap" ones.

EDIT: There are still a lot of decent ones though, don't get mad at me :)

[crawlingdeadman]

Most of the guides on this site are posted by idiots. Especially the "creative" or "cheap" ones.

EDIT: There are still a lot of decent ones though, don't get mad at me :)

yeah, well write one yourself then ***** about crappy guides. also there are a lot of tossers posting crap, but stickied ones have met with a certain amount of... critique before they're accepted into a sticky.

@OP: you could run 2-3 one player pits faster than one 8 player pit probably. also dont think of decrep being a weak amp think of amp as being a limited decrep. they both work great and can be used in conjunction w/ one another. also razortail > nos coil, imo. would have saved you from maxing pierce.

[prion]

maybe get your merc a bonehew? They sell for pgems

[thepandafactor]

Not to be off topic, but lemme write a typical dii.net guide.

The PvP Bowzer Guide (Version 1.0)
Bows are the greatest. You can shoot from far away and add some poison damage! You also don't have to worry about aiming!

Table of Contents
I. Introduction
II. Stat Placement
III. Skill Placement
IV. About the Skills
V. Formulas
VI. Gear Selection
VII. Dueling Strategies
VIII. Thanks

I. Introduction
<insert corny story here>. And that's the story of the Bowzer.

What is a Bowzer?

bow•zer n.
1. A boss in the Mario series of video games. He sucks really bad on Super Smash Bros. Melee.
3. A devious hybrid Amazon duelist who has mastered the art of killing with Guided Arrow.

II. Stat Placement
Strength- Just enough to equip all of your gear
Dexterity- This is a GLASS CANNON (omg give props), ALL IN HERE!!!!
Vitality- SEE ABOVE (I'M SO COOL!)
Energy- None


III. Skill Placement
Since I like guided arrow so much since I don't have to aim, let's put 20 points in there. I have so many leftover skillpoints that I don't have a real idea what to do with it, and I get killed by FC zons, so might as well mix that in there too!

20 Charged Strike
20 Lightning Bolt
20 Lightning Fury
1-6 D/E/A
1 Valkyrie
20 Guided Arrow
1 Critical Strike
Rest into Poison Javelin (I heard this was good!!!)

D/E/A
This stands for Dodge, Evade, and Avoid. With +skills, it's a ONE POINT WONDER!!! (check out my vocab, wug!) They help you dodge, evade, and avoid!

Guided Arrow
Shoots big white things that kill!! MMM!!

IV. About the Skills
Guided arrow actually TRACKS the target! It will disappear after a while and makes a good trigger pk!!! MARROWWALK BUG!

Synergy Information
Charged Strike
Lightning Fury: 10% lightning dmg/level
Lightning Bolt: 10% lightning dmg/level
Power Strike: 10% lightning dmg/level
Lightning Strike: 10% lightning dmg/level

Plague Javelin
Poison Javelin: 10% poison dmg/level

Poison Javelin
Plague Javelin: 12% poison dmg/level

After +skill items, try to attain of these Charged Strike skill levels. An extra bolt hit at that level can have devastating consequences.
Level 25 – 8 bolts
Level 30 – 9 bolts
Level 35 – 10 bolts
Level 40 – 11 bolts

Check it out, I gave you info that you could just check from the manual!


V. Formulas (ie more number dropping)
Faster Hit Recovery Breakpoints
%FHR Needed/ Frames
6- 10
13- 9
20- 8
32- 7
52- 6
86- 5
174- 4
I heard FHR was good, try to hit a breakpoint!!!.

VI. Gear Selection
I’ve tried to list them in the order in which they are suited for this variant listed from top to bottom as best to worst (in my opinion).

HELMS
Griffon’s Eye- +1 skill, enhancing your Charged Strike bolts and lowering opponents lightning resists. OMG I am so original!!!
Crown of Ages- +1 skill, good damage reduction and 1-2 sockets just waiting for poison or lightning facets. I wonder why no one else thought of this!! Brilliant!
Harlequin Crest- +2 skills, nice chunk of life and mana with a little damage reduction to finish her off. Almost no one uses this anymore!

WEAPONS- JAVELINS
Theres a couple Amazon class specific javelins, I'm sure that's the best!
Thunderstrokes- Hmm hmm google this one... good skills and negative enemy lightning resists, A+!
Titan’s Revenge- Hmm...good skills, faster run, huge stat bonuses…I guess this one is pretty good too!

WEAPONS- BOWS
Windforce- I remember this used to go for like 40 soj, it must be GODLYZ!
“Faith” - Yum runewords!
Upgraded Goldstrike Arch- Why not recommend a bs item.

Poor man's bow:
HARMONY! I discovered this runeword the other day!! GO RUNEWORDS!

Other:
LAST WISH PB. I heard these were DA BOMB.

ARMOR
CoH and Nigma. Hell, even my sorc wears nigma!

Poor man's armor:
Duriel's shell. I got owned by Duriel, so if its good enoguh for him!!!


BELTS
Lightning... THUNDERGODS! Sounds like a good lightnign belt!

GLOVES
Godly Rare or Crafted- 20 IAS! KB! JAV SKILLS! OMGOMGOMG!

BOOTS
Try to get something that's like imp shank, but not that since its a DUPE! Hotspurs in case you meet a fire guy!

SHIELDS
Stormshield! In 1.09 I used stormshield on every character, why not this one!!!

RINGS
BK Ring! SOJ! RAVENFROST!!!

Keep Dwarf star and wisp so you can sorb people.

AMULETS
Godly Rare or Crafted Amulet- +2 Amazon skills, +stats!!!1
Maras!

Rising Sun for some more fire goodness!

CHARMS
Harpoonists- +1 Javelin/Spear Skills
20/5 life/res!!!
Torch and Anni! (try to get these as high as possible, I just discovered high = better!!)

[thepandafactor]

Strats:

Vs Hammerdin: 60/40
Only noobers use hammerdins anyway, you're gonna die, jsut face it :(!!! But since I wrote this guide, I think you have a 60/40 chance.

Vs Bone nec: 100/0
Haha they only do like 3k damage, and with enough faster run walk you can dodge all their stuff, it should be an easy match assuming they dont SORB you!!!!

Vs Wind druid: 40/60
I just got owned in one nado. But if you run faster and shoot some guideds I think you can pull it off!!!

Thanks to!
Dracoy!!1!!!1 (have fun at uiuc!!)
Smash!! (don't know him but i saw his youtube video!)
w1z!!! (i liked his guide!)
fury-pvp!! (i beat him on us east!!)
garbad the weak1!! (HE HAS GREEN COLORZ!)

/namedrop.

Thanks please sticky!!!!!1

[crawlingdeadman]

for god's sake quit trolling.

that's not a typical dii.net guide that's an idiot's guide. you find them everywhere not just dii.net. as i said before the ones in the stickies tend to be a little more polished.

Not to be off topic, but lemme write a typical dii.net guide.
yeah, you didnt mean to go off topic at all did you?

[maiku]

Well I read the Witchyzon guide. I put total faith in the guide that I would be given a strafer that could solo decent pits games. I was very surprised to find out that my zon was absolutely useless in 8 player pits, even with most of the gear suggested by the guide.

So now I'm out of a pul, and pretty pissed off. I didn't think that this build would require godly equipment to be able to do pits..

My setup is upped shaeled WWS, cats eye, Tals Mask, Water walks, raven, carrion, nosf coil, Laying of Hands and Rattlecage(For not being able to find a 3os armour to make Lionheart in).

I maxed Strafe, 17 in Valk, Maxed pierce, and am working on maxing penetrate. I'm level 75, my might merc, the same level as me, uses tals mask, shaftstop and some random elite polearm for not knowing what else to use, seeing as Reapers Toll would screw around with Amp Damage.

After getting jack all from attempting to MF with a fireball/orb sorc, I tried this and didn't get anything but a loss

Are you on USWest Ladder? If you are or want to drop by, I can show you my Witchyzon. I moved from running Pits to running Chaos Sanctuary with her. Also, if you need, I can give you a 3-socket Mage Plate or Wire Fleece for you to make that Lionheart in.

There's a lot of ways you can go with a Witchyzon and a lot of variation in equipment, and even minor changes can impact your effectivness a lot. I noticed this with my Witchyzon.

I think I notice some problems with your equipment and skill placement.

First, stick that Rattlecage on your merc, so he has Crushing Blow to take down enemies faster and help with crowd control with monster flee. The Crushing Blow will be much more effective on him than you, because CB is nerfed for ranged attacks. In 8-player games, CB can't cut down enemy health as fast as it can in 1-player games. Lionheart, Twitch, Treachery, or anything else will serve you much better. Even a 3- or 4-socketed armor stuffed with IAS jewels would probably give you better results than Rattlecage. I would've recommended going with Razortail over Nosferatu's Coil if you hadn't maxed Pierce. With 10 points in Pierce and Razortail, you get over 100%. IIRC, with maxed Pierce, you still cannot hit 100%--it's around 80ish%. It's one of those skills that suffers from diminishing returns.

You could give your merc a 4-socketed Colossus Voulge Insight if he has 200+ strength. Cheap to make. Almost guaranteed to have 500+ damage on it, plus 23% MF, and useful in the future, should you ever need it on another character. If you need one, contact me. Waterwalks are nice boots, but they don't add as much damage as War Travelers or Goreriders would. War Travelers has +10 str, +10 vit, 30-50% MF, and most importantly, 10-25 off-weapon damage added. This becomes a couple hundred extra damage per shot with high dex and WWS. Goreriders are also a good option and would help give you an extra 15% Deadly Strike, but I don't think they add as much damage in the long term as War Travs do. Try to get cheap War Travs. Doesn't matter. You still get decent MF boots which boost your damage and stats a lot. I found my pair with my Witchyzon on one of her first runs, but low magic-find ones should trade for a mid-rune or so perhaps a Lem+. If not, ask friends if they have any 30-35% ones to spare. It's not the MF on the boots that matter, it's the stat boosts and off-weapon damage.

With your listed equipment, I'm wondering how fast your Strafe is. Do you have enough IAS to reach critical breakpoints? Try to make sure you're at 9/2 or 9/3 Strafe, though the Next Delay bug might rear its head. With packs of monsters or ones that are spread out, Next Delay is not a concern and very fast Strafe is still a major advantage and helps to trigger Amp damage from WWS more quickly and regularly. Next Delay is only a concern if strafing quickly against a single opponent. Use Guided Arrow in those cases.

[Zalcitabine]

for god's sake quit trolling.

that's not a typical dii.net guide that's an idiot's guide. you find them everywhere not just dii.net. as i said before the ones in the stickies tend to be a little more polished.


yeah, you didnt mean to go off topic at all did you?

Don't worry about that guy, he even fail at trolling.

@OP: Only thing you seems to be missing imho is some levels - you will get better chance to hit and merc will be stronger. Having maxed penetrate will also help alot.

And get a twitchtroe instead of the rattlecage.

I would also put obedience or reaper's on your merc.

[Mav451]

Don't worry about that guy, he even fail at trolling.

@OP: Only thing you seems to be missing imho is some levels - you will get better chance to hit and merc will be stronger. Having maxed penetrate will also help alot.

And get a twitchtroe instead of the rattlecage.

I would also put obedience or reaper's on your merc.

Yeah I have a feeling his AR/CTH is fairly low. If anything, I would have maxed penetrate first b/c a maxed strafe is useless if you're only hitting @ 75-77% (or whatever it is). More penetrate + about 5-10 more levels, and he should be gold.

[phool]

wws strafers are rather overated on this forum imo but get some levels (80+ or you have a major penalty with cth) and some travs and you'll do a lot better.

[AnimeCraze]

Without some max damage charms, I would have problems doing the pits with 8 players too. My suggestion is to tone down the number of players by a bit (maybe down to 4~5) and run with that until you get better gear.wws strafers are rather overated on this forum imo but get some levels (80+ or you have a major penalty with cth) and some travs and you'll do a lot better.I somewhat agree. I mean, they are decent runners for sure, but the high end zons are definitely much better (as it is with any other build).

[Evrae Altana]

Your level plays a factor in your chance to hit. I'd level up into the 80's before taking on the Pits again. Also, try not to judge the build based on player 8 runs, since a witchyzon was designed for reliability in lower player games, not complete hammerdin style ownage in full games. :smiley:

[moop]

I'll give it another shot. I'll try to get my hands on War Travs. I've been meaning to ditch the rattle cage for awhile, but I haven't really given any thought to what to replace it with.

I wasn't aware that Obedience was such a good polearm. I'll try it.

I've been searching for a 15 ias jewel to stick in my Tals Mask, but I haven't found one yet. If I stuck it in, I'd hit the 8/2 breakpoint according to the guide I looked at

[thepandafactor]

If you play east, I have an obedience thresher (noneth) if you can trade me the runes (I found a 5os eth polearm :p) I also have a free 15 ias jewel and free twitch if you wanna use those.

[Smackin]

When building a character, first look at the skills he/she use, and then determine the most important mods he/she needs. It doesnt even matter what equipment u use, as long as ur combination meets the goal, ur fine. In ur case, ur building a wws zon so the obvious choice would an upped high ed wws, with gear to optimize ur performance.

Another thing I want to point out, is dont put total faith into a guide, even if it may sound like a gg pwnage build with budget items(I'm not saying they suck). U just have to realize one thing: budget builds are designed for lower player setting games, where they can hold their own and be decent. However, to truly dominate 8 player games, u WILL need good to advanced gear.

However, dont be disappointed, u can still hold ur own in a high player setting game with mid ranged items, but u must build and play ur char correctly. In ur case I'd suggest u aim for the following:

115ias
decent leech
lots of DS
some OW
as much off weapon ed(LoH, etc)
res in the positives(cheap kiras, anni, torch)
as much +dex(cheap torch, anni, cats eye, cheap ravens)
FRW(cats eye, cheap gores)
a STRONG tank(high lvl valk, HF merc)
~300-1k LCS dmg w/strafe

It doesnt matter what gear u use, as long as u reach these goals, u'll be ok. Don't expect urself to cut through hell, it aint gonna with ANY budget builds(not even a summoner nec. He can kill hell untwinked, but nowhere as fast and dominating in 8 player games). Play ur char right, use the right skills at the right moment, keep ur tanks up, and u should have much problem. Oh and dont forget to lvl to 85+, as it really helps ur chance to hit.

Edit: U'll also want to know what ur char excel at and what he/she doesnt do good at. For example, budget bowazons arent good boss killers due the nerf of CB on range weapons and their low chance to hit the boss, but they're good at killing mass amounts of monsters. Lightning javazons are very strong vs both bosses and large packs, but u dont see them doing andy and meph runs. Why? It's because zons are naturally slow at teleing, making it not worth while. Instead, they do CS/cow runs.

[Dacar92]

If you play east, I have an obedience thresher (noneth) if you can trade me the runes (I found a 5os eth polearm :p) I also have a free 15 ias jewel and free twitch if you wanna use those.

I don't think giving away items is going to wash away the foolishness you have already shown here.

[thepandafactor]

Even though you refuse to believe it, most of the guides DO suck. Sorry!

[Dacar92]

Even though you refuse to believe it, most of the guides DO suck. Sorry!

That's your opinion. If you'd like to do so, I challenge you to tell us why they suck. Point out reasons. Show us the guides that suck. Quote the sections that suck. Give us your opinion on how they can be made better. Rewrite them! Don't just come in here and say they suck with no back up at all. So you say they suck. Why do they suck?

[BASHFUL BABA]

Panda.. that had me rollin.. you nailed it to a tee lmao, especially the PvP part

[crawlingdeadman]

Panda.. that had me rollin.. you nailed it to a tee lmao, especially the PvP part


i think you guys (@panda too) must be a little confused as to which diablo forum you're posting on. here if we see a guide that we dont feel is very good, we post suggestions on how to make it better. if you feel that some guides are less than perfect, feel free to post suggestions. i'm not saying every guide that's posted here on dii is a well written, golden nugget of timeless knowledge to be printed out on the finest gold leaf paper and put on dislplay in the library of congress, but it's not nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

i'd love for you to link me to some of these guides that you are so distraught about. i'd prefer ones that were in stickies because, as i've said, the guides in the stickies in each class forum have met a few more standards than the thrown together ones.

here are some guides that are very good and should meet your "standards":
pvm all around build and my personal favorite character type (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=418716)
pvp java made right (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?p=4862622#post4862622)(i've seen tinn take out 5 characters in a pub game w/o towning once)
budget pvm that's good enough that we call them fishyzons (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=464188)
no table left unturned (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=582627)
craft away! (http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=348851)
my personal all-time favorite that you two should pay particular attention to (http://www.gdnctr.com/middle_finger.jpg)

those are just some of the great guides here in the zon forum, let alone on all of dii.net.

i'm sure all of your posts here at dii are filled with inspirational messages and i thank you for reading my trash. there is of course a way to avoid our "bad guides" here and that is to GO SOMEWHERE ELSE!

thanks for reading, i hope your stays here, however long they last, are pleasant.

[maiku]

moop, consider adding some Crushing Blow to your build. As I've mentioned a few times in the forum, it seems to significantly increase the killing power of a Witchyzon, provided you get enough CB.