A new type of pally?

[TheBassman]

I was hopping from pub game to pub game with my 1v7 Hammerdin when I stumbled upon the weirdest looking paladin I've ever seen. Not weirdest in terms of gear selection, but in use of skills.

He wouldn't show me his gear unless I beat him 1v1. So I hostiled him and we went at it. He came out on top 5-4. :undecided:

But as we were dueling it seemed odd to me that he was using 3 skills that were all doing significant damage...

FoH, Hammers & Smite.

This pally wasn't using a Grief either. He was using what seemed to me as a Beast Caddy, since his fana aura would stay up but conc and conv wouldn't.

Does anyone know of such a build? I've decided to try such a pally but have no idea where to start off. For some reason I see the skill distribution being too spread out to be viable...

:afro:

[inanefedaykin]

Without grief of astreons I don't see how his smite could have been doing significant damage.

[HappyAssassin]

People sometimes use smite purely for the KB and swirly effects.

It sounds like a mage using grief to me though, such a build is possible. Do you know if he was legit? Due to the TMCbp hack thats been in circulation people are making better hybrids because they can stack damage and defensive gear and not worry about their FCR/FHR. Of course, they'll all end up rotting in the same hell as the other hackers.

[kykle]

he had fanat and conc on when smiting, wouldn't that add significant damage?

[TheBassman]

He was legit, I could tell he was only at the 75% fcr breakpoint.

And he was definately using beast, that is for sure. The weapon was definately a scepter and from the aura being permanent it was definately beast.

And his Smite damage wasn't phenomenal but after about 6 hits from his smite a third of my life was gone, and I have 40%DR and 3.5k life. So it was enough to kill that's for sure, and against others such as Bowzons, Sorcs, Necros, definately enough to be a threat.

I'm going to pursue building such a pally, I've already gotten the scepter, +2BH/+3FOH/+2Conv Beast.

So I guess my gear is going to be.

'Beast' Divine Scepter
'Enigma' Breast Plate
'Spirit' Sacred Targe
Crown of Ages Corona (BerBer)
Trang-Oul's Claws Heavy Bracers
Arachnid's Mesh Spiderweb Sash
Mara's Kaleidoscope Amulet
Ravenfrost Ring
Rare Dual Stat Ring
Rare Dual Resistances/FHR Boots

Not sure on a skill setup yet but will optimize soon.

[MysticDragon]

+2BH/+3FOH/+2Conv Beast

That's a good mage weapon. Now Hel it and put facets in. :P

[kykle]

i think you will find you end up with a pally with 3 mediocre attacks that will lose against most specailized builds. 18 smites to kill? that's hardly even noticeable damage. if you go to synergize both foh and hammers you will end up with hammers doing less than 8k and a weak foh. i suppose you could lay down a hammer field, foh from far away and smite away the remaining hp when something got close, but it would be like chopping down a tree with a herring

let me know how the experiment turns out though. if i turn out to be wrong i wanna know about it :P

[ShazamLies]

Good luck :thumbsup:

At least you'll win the duel with STYLE

[TheBassman]

Well I've been using beast on my pure hammerdin and the 1 pt smite is actually working very well. I've been using it for mostly Zons, Sorcs, Windies, and Necros. And the FoH is working well to put Zons into dodge animation so I can get a good jump on them.

I dropped to the 48%FCR breakpoint and using desynch alot more. But the grizzly stack helps out alot vs. bowas aswell.

Dropping my hammer damage to raise my foh up. (which is at level 18 with just that scepter and doing roughly 1k damage). With the right gear setup I think this might work.

[inanefedaykin]

http://forums.diabloii.net/showthread.php?t=172668
If you haven't seen that before it'll probably help quite a bit for this build.

[kykle]

can you outline your skill plan?

[TheBassman]

When I have it all figured out, atm I'm trying to figure out optimal breakpoints and what gear setup would be best for all around dueling.

As soon as I know the # of +skills in this build my skill plan will be much easier to perfect.

[kykle]

good luck. I imagine this build will take a lot of fast hotkey work to be effective.

[TheBassman]

That we can both agree on lol. And if worse comes to worst at the very least it'll have the element of surprise in the pubs and do its job of taking out randoms. lol.

[chileno]

Fort is a good armor to use, it has fcr and will help with your smite damage.

[rare]

I think a VT would probably be better than that foh smite hammer variant.

if it were 1 on 1 i assume both would wear 4 lo and res in switch, with the vt wearing a more smite oriented 2nd weap set, and the variant wearing more fcr oriented gear, knowing it couldnt beat the vt in smite vs smite.

since the vt has grief, and the variant does not according to what you saw, itll go down to the vt using just smite, with the variant using hammers with not enough dmg and fcr, and smite thats not strong enough to go up against the grief smite from the vt.

and then youd have to hope the variant had enough blocl %, else the vt can just chargelock it forever with grief.


by the way, if you make this and youre on west NL, i'd love to duel it with my vt.

[TheBassman]

Yeah but my smite is hitting 1.5k with 1 point invested. The damage is very minimal and only used for Javazons, Bowazons, Wind Druids (once hammer takes out minions), and sometimes Necros if you get them with a good charge.

Once both FoHs are negated the V/T is left with a semi powerful smite. Where as I'm is with a 7.5k+ desynching hammerdin. And in my experiences the hammerdin will beat the smiter. I'm west NL, once he's done we'll go a few rounds ;).

[kykle]

both foh's aren't negated.. are they?

[SicHalo]

People sometimes use smite purely for the KB and swirly effects.

It sounds like a mage using grief to me though, such a build is possible. Do you know if he was legit? Due to the TMCbp hack thats been in circulation people are making better hybrids because they can stack damage and defensive gear and not worry about their FCR/FHR. Of course, they'll all end up rotting in the same hell as the other hackers.


This is possible as sometimes not often i take on a 1 point libby setup on my mage and equip a grief and is quite usefull.

If they are using TMCbp hacks then who knows a pala with this can reach 125% fcr with just a hoto lol so ofc he can aford to make a very damaging hybrid with less fcr gear and still keep alot of + skills and dmg going.

[SicHalo]

I think a VT would probably be better than that foh smite hammer variant.

if it were 1 on 1 i assume both would wear 4 lo and res in switch, with the vt wearing a more smite oriented 2nd weap set, and the variant wearing more fcr oriented gear, knowing it couldnt beat the vt in smite vs smite.

since the vt has grief, and the variant does not according to what you saw, itll go down to the vt using just smite, with the variant using hammers with not enough dmg and fcr, and smite thats not strong enough to go up against the grief smite from the vt.

and then youd have to hope the variant had enough blocl %, else the vt can just chargelock it forever with grief.


by the way, if you make this and youre on west NL, i'd love to duel it with my vt.

No V/T will not be better as even with a simple fight like mage vs v/t if foh is negated it turns into hammer vs smite and its clearly hammer>smite in almost all cases.

And i suppect that this build will prolly take a more mage based style to fighting v/ts.

[rare]

Yeah but my smite is hitting 1.5k with 1 point invested. The damage is very minimal and only used for Javazons, Bowazons, Wind Druids (once hammer takes out minions), and sometimes Necros if you get them with a good charge.

Once both FoHs are negated the V/T is left with a semi powerful smite. Where as I'm is with a 7.5k+ desynching hammerdin. And in my experiences the hammerdin will beat the smiter. I'm west NL, once he's done we'll go a few rounds ;).

ah, awesome.

although sad to know that youll be using desynching as your main weapon, rather than something you invest points in =/

still fun though, pubbing has gotten very dull lately.

[mephiztophelez]

Due to the TMCbp hack thats been in circulation people are making better hybrids.....
"better":shocked:

surely you jest. they are merely hacking noobs that aren't worth our time.

[HappyAssassin]

Ahem, better is not the correct term. More powerful?

[mephiztophelez]

Ahem, better is not the correct term. More powerful?

how about: "Cheating Bastards who suck at life" :grin:

[Uncle_Mike]

This one is good too, and it's not a flame since is not aimed at anyone in particular :wink3:

[Ce Olba]

how about: "Cheating Bastards who suck at life" :grin:

Excuse me, but did you miss a few grammar lessons? Seriously.

You turned "Better Hybrids" into "Cheating Bastards Who Suck At Life Hybrids". What in that sounds logical to you?

And who knows, it could be that they are just bored with the game as it is. Yes I know, they should thus move on. But who doesn't want to mess in a game with cheats? Yes, I like playing my Tony Hawks' Underground with an invisible deck, extra sparks when grinding and possibly a dwarf-size playing character.

[mephiztophelez]

You turned "Better Hybrids" into "Cheating Bastards Who Suck At Life Hybrids". What in that sounds logical to you?
the fact that the "better hybrids" comment was relating to the widespread use of the TMC breakpoint hack.
And who knows, it could be that they are just bored with the game as it is. Yes I know, they should thus move on. But who doesn't want to mess in a game with cheats?
me for one. if i start feeling the need to use a hack and cheat at a computer game, i'll go find a new game to play and hold the MOTHER of all item giveaways.
Yes, I like playing my Tony Hawks' Underground with an invisible deck, extra sparks when grinding and possibly a dwarf-size playing character.
if this involves some sort of hack or third-party-program of any description, you seriously need to get a life.

people who need to cheat at a computer game are the sort of people who cheat at solitaire. eg: losers.

perhaps it's my age talking, but i just don't feel the need to cheat at video games. it's truly sad, as are all those who do cheat at video-games.

ps: nowt wrong with my grammar old'son.

[Ce Olba]

the fact that the "better hybrids" comment was relating to the widespread use of the TMC breakpoint hack.

But he spoke of "Better hybrids", you commented to that with the cheating blablabla.. accusement.

me for one. if i start feeling the need to use a hack and cheat at a computer game, i'll go find a new game to play and hold the MOTHER of all item giveaways.

Tell me, how do you hold a giveaway if there is no way to give anything in the game? For example, Counter-Strike.

if this involves some sort of hack or third-party-program of any description, you seriously need to get a life.

Actually, all the things that I mentioned are in the game's built-in menu of "Cheats" and can be activated from there.

And none of the mods actually change the game, besides of graphical appearance. If changing the graphics of the game was a bannable offense, what the hell would people with old PCs do?

people who need to cheat at a computer game are the sort of people who cheat at solitaire. eg: losers.

Who says the need to do it? Maybe they do it just for the heck of it? Maybe they enjoy people complaining?

ps: nowt wrong with my grammar old'son.

Not the grammar, but the context. "Better" was used to describe the assassins, you described the players. That's a huge mistake. That would probably net you a big minus in any test.

[Uncle_Mike]

Excuse me, but did you miss a few grammar lessons? Seriously.


Excuse me, but did you miss a few Savoir-vivre lessons? seriously.

Can we please keep this topic clean and on topic, not to mention that picking on someone's spelling or grammar is never a good idea.

Happy did make a clarification since claiming that one's char is better since he uses hacks in debatable to say the least and what he did mean was "more powerful" as both stated and clarified above.

Can you please stop nitpicking? thank you...

[Lyrs]

I think it's a waste to use Beast instead of Grief. Myself, I have a 1pt Fanaticism for smiting on my Hammerdin. With Torch, anni, Spirit, and a 2pFcr ammy, I already have a lvl 9 fanaticism. Sure, I don't have a Conc stacked on top of Fanaticism, but using Grief more than makes up for it.

[mephiztophelez]

olba, olba, olba...
READ the post by happy i was reffering to and stop making yourself look like a twit.
People sometimes use smite purely for the KB and swirly effects.

It sounds like a mage using grief to me though, such a build is possible. Do you know if he was legit? Due to the TMCbp hack thats been in circulation people are making better hybrids because they can stack damage and defensive gear and not worry about their FCR/FHR. Of course, they'll all end up rotting in the same hell as the other hackers.
does that make the context clearer for you?

[Ce Olba]

olba, olba, olba...
READ the post by happy i was reffering to and stop making yourself look like a twit.

does that make the context clearer for you?

Sorry to be a pain in the ***, but posts #22, #23 and #24 say otherwise. Happy was clearly referring to the hybrids, not the players. You, on the other hand, were referring to the players, as the characters cannot possibly cheat.

[mephiztophelez]

deleted.

ignore list updated.

[TheBassman]

I think it's a waste to use Beast instead of Grief. Myself, I have a 1pt Fanaticism for smiting on my Hammerdin. With Torch, anni, Spirit, and a 2pFcr ammy, I already have a lvl 9 fanaticism. Sure, I don't have a Conc stacked on top of Fanaticism, but using Grief more than makes up for it.

The purpose of beast was to maintain a 6frame smite, average smite damage (from a "1 pt. wonder" point of view), and use the staffmods to boost the damage of my hammers and FoH, and also removing the need to get conviction due to said staffmods.

I agree, Grief is king for smite damage, but my smite is purely for amazons, since it is easier to smite a zon than to hammer it, for the "swirlies" so even if my opponent stacks my FoH it'll still put them into recovery if the "swirlies" are active, giving me a chance to hammer, and for the knockback, (with a the smite's knockback combined with a fast switch to hammers my opponent is in range of my hammers but not in range of hitting me in most cases (melee only of course.)

Too bad Grief can't be made in a Caduceus. :cry:

@Olba: Geez man, no one cares, just shut up.

Thanks for the abundance of replies guys. :grin: (excluding the randomness on the last 2 pages.....)

[Uncle_Mike]

Sorry to be a pain in the ***, but posts #22, #23 and #24 say otherwise. Happy was clearly referring to the hybrids, not the players. You, on the other hand, were referring to the players, as the characters cannot possibly cheat.

If anyone had any doubt as to what HappyAssassin wanted to say his update did clafiry things.

Am I to assume that you consider chars using hacks better?

[InksAndDaggers]

TMCbp is not a hack. it changes sprite animations client side and doesn't affect real gameplay.

[mephiztophelez]

TMCbp is not a hack. it changes sprite animations client side and doesn't affect real gameplay.

sounds like a hack to me.

[SicHalo]

actually i think this tmcp does work..

btw using tmcp on a hybrid will effectively make a "stronger" hybrid

About smite if u use a phaseblade u will atomatically hit fastest smite speed when i smite i still have conc aura cuz never botherd to 1 stat fana

[mephiztophelez]

actually i think this tmcp does work..

btw using tmcp on a hybrid will effectively make a "stronger" hybrid
and it's still a third-party-programe, ie: a hack.

use of any third party programs is A: against the ToU and B: lame & pathetic..

if you "need" to use a hack, go get a life. it's pathetic and so are you.

[akumaxxyz]

tmc does work, seen tons of hdins with it, and you get 7fpa smite naturally with any grief pb with out using fana i think

[SicHalo]

and it's still a third-party-programe, ie: a hack.

use of any third party programs is A: against the ToU and B: lame & pathetic..

if you "need" to use a hack, go get a life. it's pathetic and so are you.


LOL WTF IS THIS AIMMED AT ME?

I was marely stating that TMC or wotever does actually work and it can make a hybrid stronger than its supposed to be, i personnaly dont agree with use of any kinda hacks as it gives unfair advantages to ppl.

and can remove alot of the skill factor...

[mephiztophelez]

not necessarily "aimed" at "you".

more aimed at anyone who thinks a hack user is "better" than anyone else.

i mean obviously, if you didn't need to worry about mundane, game mechanic things like FCR/FHR/IAS/etc requirements on your gear (via TMCbp) your 'toon will dish out more damage etc because, well, your not worrying about chasing things like FCR/FHR/IAS/etc and can instead chase more damage/res/etc in your kit.

deciding what breakpoints your going for is a big part of building any pvp toon.

sacrifices need to be made elsewhere to hit the higher bp's. lets take my fire sorc as an example. i hit the 200FCR & 142 FHR breakpoints with dual spirits & a 20fcr ammy that has no +skills on it. i use a viper instead of an Ormus & fcr rings instead of +skills rings. a +2fire/20fcr/mods hat instead of a +3fire hat or even a shako.

my fireball damage is "low" at 19k. if i get a +2/20fcr ammy i'll hit 21k. if i also switch in a HotO instead of my spirit sword i can get an almighty 22k fb damage! (or thereabouts, also assuming i get enough FHR gc's to keep the 142 bp)

if i didn't have to worry about my FCR/FHR bp's, well theoretical max damage on a Fireball is somewhere over 30k with perfect gear (+6FB orbs etc).

the point is, i DO have to worry about game mechanics, hence, i accept lower damage output in favour of 200/142.

and i repeat: peeps who use hacks are pathetic. i dont care if it's maphack, g-mod, fc, flash-hack or tmc or any other hack out there. use of same is lame. end of story. i'm glad we agree on that.

mind you, i do enjoy walloping hax users with my no-hack 'toons.

[inanefedaykin]

TMC ruins LLD even more then HLD. In LLD there are very few options for gear so the real attraction to it is making everything work with the few gear choices available. It's why LLDers like to show and tell all about their cool items and good LLD games sometimes don't even see a half dozen ears in the moor. But hey, with TMC you can get the godliest BPs without any gear sacrifices. It's the same with HLD but LLD is all about making sacrifices and still comming out on top.

[kykle]

any third party program ruins the game. if you use them get a life. period.

[HappyAssassin]

Unfortunately this thread has deviated very far from its original purpose. I may or may not have had something to do with that :(

Either way, it will be put down to spare it additional pain.