My Ladder WW barb.

[MantrA?]

ok finished him but need some advice

lvl 87:
5 pnts into str, rest in vita.

Stock gear (bvc)
2/30/30 berber coa
399/34 grief
268/38 beast
highlords
1312 Dusk nigma
2x 245+/20 ravens
GG frw/fhr/duel res boots
Trangs gloves
Arachnid mesh

Charms:
20/18 torch
20/16/6 anni
inventory full of max/ar/life GC/SC and some ar/life GC/SC

points:
20x axe mastery
20x BO
20x WW
20x Leap

i have about 6 free points what do i pump next?

stash gear to date:
Kiras
-_-


can you guys tell me what stash gear i need for what matchups and what i should put my remining skills 2? also general stratagies for common matchups would be great.

Mant

[ShazamLies]

Whats your switch gear? Standard switches include:
Dual dooms
Widowmaker
Cta + Hoto

Skill points, do you have 1 pt berserk and nat res? After that I guess you could go shout (boosts ur def and zerk damage).


Stash Equip:
Hotspurs vs. fire sorcs
Thundergod's vs. anything light
Angelic Ammy and 2x rings vs. smiters
Demonlimb vs. smiters
Verdungo's vs. smiters/windies/etc
Death Gloves vs. poison necs and ww sins
Guilliames vs. hdins or necs
Griffons if you ever need the 65 fcr bp, or .08 valk helm
20/11 sc's vs. fohers
Eternity BA vs. bmers
Fury BA vs. ES sorcs and even necs

[Imbecile]

Further I dumped 5 points into Inc. Speed and 5 into Nat Res. The defense you get from shout is negligible, it's better to put 5-6 into Nat Res. It's a matter of preferece, but I enjoy having 5 pts. into Inc Speed, since I enjoy using fortitude now and then.

[MantrA?]

Further I dumped 5 points into Inc. Speed and 5 into Nat Res. The defense you get from shout is negligible, it's better to put 5-6 into Nat Res. It's a matter of preferece, but I enjoy having 5 pts. into Inc Speed, since I enjoy using fortitude now and then.

Thanks guys, just a few questions:

with nigma, 30frw boots and already say 6 into increased speed from + skills is it worth putting pnts into this or should i just go all nat res? I already have max res in hell tho, or is this extra res for people that have -res?

2) how can you wear fort? im entirely Str bugged and if i loose the 7x str from nigma i can't wear a single thing -_-


lastly i have 6x psn res normally.. is this bad do i need 2 max it?

[Imbecile]

Nevermind about that Fortitude part, since I'm NL. Though base str /dex is definitely the way to go on Ladder. I spend 5 hard points into Inc Speed. It's because you shouldn't factor Anya Quests, since it's likely you will die at least once in every pub. Just buff some antidotes.

[MantrA?]

Nevermind about that Fortitude part, since I'm NL. Though base str /dex is definitely the way to go on Ladder. I spend 5 hard points into Inc Speed. It's because you shouldn't factor Anya Quests, since it's likely you will die at least once in every pub. Just buff some antidotes.

y points? i can str bug all the way xD

[AcidXFlesh]

Why is leap considered a skill to max?

[ShazamLies]

Well.. you get diminishing returns on inc speed and nat res.. so with +skills I don't really see why you would need to put a few more points into it. I understand that shout's def increases is negligble. However, it does slightly boost both your berserk damage AND your defense, while at the same time, if you decide to level more, those added skill points can then be added towards shout. However if you put points in inc speed and nat res, it becomes so redundant as to not help. The increase in your res after + skills from nat res is so tiny as to not help much, same with speed.

By the way you don't really need to run that often as a barb, a slower WW actually means more hitchecks aka DAMAGE.

With just a few more points in strength I'm pretty sure you could wear fort somehow. You need some gear switching though and str bugging. Figure your + str from draculs, arreats, beast axe, torch/anni. I think thats potentially +110ish str...

Btw Imbecile, I think you confused the anya quest bug with skills, anya's bug only applies to res. And wth, I thot blizzard fixed this :cry:

[Ce Olba]

y points? i can str bug all the way xD

Well, usually, on BvCs, the str/dex points that you put are for gear changes, such as Fortitude and Widowmaker. For example, with base DEX, you will need to use dual Ravenfrosts to be able to use Widowmaker, which pretty much defeats the purpose of using it against Hammerdins, since Angelics or Hsarus are way better. Of course, you can just use Hsarus for the AR, but that means you cannot use Fortitude or Duress, thus rendering Widowmaker pretty useless. So, you pretty much have to have enough DEX to be able to use Widowmaker without sacrificing your belt slot, which will give you STR to wear Fortitude or Duress.

Oh, and with enough levels, the additional STR will let you do cool stuff like dual dooms + CoA + Trang's, means you won't lose that +1 skills when bo'ing, nor will you be unable to use Trang's together with dual Dooms against stuff like Windies and annoying Bowazons. Well, that requires lvl 95 with the standard STR, so it's a bit of a bother.


Why is leap considered a skill to max?

Because the radius of the Knockback has no diminishing returns. The more, the better. Compare 14 points and 20 points with the normal pubsetup, for example. 14 points net you the whole screen, except for the corners whereas 20 points nets you the whole screen plus about half-a-screen over that. Quite cool, huh? However, it's really only useful in TvTs and against defensive players, such as defensive trappers and defensive bonewall camping necros.


Well.. you get diminishing returns on inc speed and nat res.. so with +skills I don't really see why you would need to put a few more points into it. I understand that shout's def increases is negligble. However, it does slightly boost both your berserk damage AND your defense, while at the same time, if you decide to level more, those added skill points can then be added towards shout. However if you put points in inc speed and nat res, it becomes so redundant as to not help. The increase in your res after + skills from nat res is so tiny as to not help much, same with speed.

The increase in your resistances might seem useless with pubgear, but with the lowest skill setup, you are looking at a lvl 7 Nat Res if you put only 1 point to that. Compare that to spending 5 points to it, meaning lvl 12. The increase is now 11 resistances, meaning an increase of ~23.4%.


By the way you don't really need to run that often as a barb, a slower WW actually means more hitchecks aka DAMAGE.

The more hitchecks thing is true, I give you that. But since the optimal whirls last 12 frames each (3 hitchecks), you would need extremely tight whirls with 1 point to Increased Speed, which in turn would result in a huge amount of misclicking. Not to mention the fact that with 1 point to Increased Speed, you are in hellish trouble after being golem slowed against a bonemancer, since you no more are capable of out-running bone spirits. And more speed means more desynch as well. And that's good for you.


With just a few more points in strength I'm pretty sure you could wear fort somehow. You need some gear switching though and str bugging. Figure your + str from draculs, arreats, beast axe, torch/anni. I think thats potentially +110ish str...

Does not matter, you are stuck anyways. With 30 base str and 40 str from torch/anni, 15 from dracul's, you are at 85 str. Now, you will need 33 STR to use Arreat's, which will let you use Beast and Grief. Now, where to get that 33? Well, rings could be a choice of course. But, you do realize that that would put you into a huge disadvantage in a pub game?


Btw Imbecile, I think you confused the anya quest bug with skills, anya's bug only applies to res. And wth, I thot blizzard fixed this

Well of course he meant Nat Res and not Increased Speed.

[zjounas]

You are pvp barb i see, called BVC, U should use Angelic amu and halos instead of highlord etc.. You need ar.. I would say u shall put the rest of ur skil points to Shout. And u should use draculs for ll.. Verdungo allways, u need DR too, not skils so much.. I had 6 soc ba wich was full of jewels who give lite res, it gave me like 160 lite res i used it and grief vs fohhers and other lite types. i had like same but 160 fire res vs Auradins.

[ShazamLies]

Pub gear should have more than +7 skills..

+1 anni
+3 Torch
+1 BC
+1 Arachs
+1 Highlords
+2 Enigma
And then +1 CoA or +2 Arreats

So that is +8 to +11 skills increase...

I mean if you just put one point into Inc speed or nat res you will already have a slvl 9-12 inc speed/nat res. Now look at the tables, what will be the big gain if you sink 6 more points into either?

Would you rather choose a less than double digit increase to either your res or your speed, or a +60% to your def and +60% to your zerk damage? Its really a matter of choice to you, but I prefer having decent defense when I need it, and the option of zerking as well.

[Ce Olba]

Pub gear should have more than +7 skills..

+1 anni
+3 Torch
+1 BC
+1 Arachs
+1 Highlords
+2 Enigma
And then +1 CoA or +2 Arreats

So that is +8 to +11 skills increase...

Actually, you miscalculated. The total comes to 10 or 11.

The the lowest skill setup you will ever use will be something like Fortitude, Kiras, TGod's, etc etc. That means, you only get +skills from Torch, Annihilus and BC, meaning a total of 5.


I mean if you just put one point into Inc speed or nat res you will already have a slvl 9-12 inc speed/nat res. Now look at the tables, what will be the big gain if you sink 6 more points into either?

That's not the point! The point is, that you will have to change gear at some time! And then, if you only put 1 point, you are totally screwed. Not to mention the fact that even with 1 point Increased Speed and pub gear, you won't be able to do a lot of things.


Would you rather choose a less than double digit increase to either your res or your speed, or a +60% to your def and +60% to your zerk damage? Its really a matter of choice to you, but I prefer having decent defense when I need it, and the option of zerking as well.

"decent defense" you say? How about you level up a bit? Most pub BvCs are something like 87-90. How about you level up to 96? Then you will have plenty of defense. And the extra defense is quite minimal. Yes, the number 60% looks big, but when you already have at least 190%, the actual increase to your defense is, at best, 31.5%. And that's with a setup that has no +skills. With pubsetup, you are talking about having 240% even on its own, making the increase a mere 25%.

25% more defense for a lot of resistances and mobility. I don't think so. Specially since defense only helps in a few match-ups:
Chargers
WWsins
Strafers
Fury Wolfs
Zealots
WW barbs
Summoners