Grief or Ebotd for zealot? (And more)

[BarbieSlawter]

I'm having a hard time choosing what would be a better weapon for a zealot. I came upon Ebotd and Grief for my weapon but can't choose among those two.

What armor should I use for my zealot? I have an AP COH on for now but I don't know if just that will do.

I plan on making an all-around zealot who can handle PvM easily and still own in PvP.

Thanks! I would appreciate suggestions and reasons to them! :azn:

[SecretsOfNowhere]

I'd go EBotD in this case.
The mods are amazing for PVM and can turn around and work for PVP.
But Grief wouldn't be too bad of a choice (IF YOU PUT IT IN A PHASE BLADE ONLY), my personal preference is EBotD though.
The Leech (Even if NERFED) and IAS, paired with comparable damage and speed, as well as 30 to Str/Dex/Vit/Energy lends extra points for extra life :)

For Armor COH is very good PVM, but you probably would want to switch to Enigma for PVP with a wizspike//spirit on switch to tele after your opponent.

[BarbieSlawter]

But I'm still confused...
If I use a Ebotd I plan on using a CB Ebotd and PB for grief.
Which and why?
What is so good about grief?

Also, I heard that some zealots use Dream for their armor and their damage boosted a lot. Any tips on this one?

Thanks!

[redtan]

Eh, don't use a botd made in a 2 handed weapon. Make it in an ethereal zerker axe instead.

If you actually read the description of grief, you'll see that it adds up to 400 damage. So a 35-55 damage sword will become 435-455 damage. As apposed to a botd which has a range from 130 to 523 or so. The damage is much more consistent.

[SecretsOfNowhere]

Make BOTD in an Eth Zerk... no other weapon will suffice. But as I said earlier, there is no wrong choice here

[ranoutofnamez]

The grief is better by far...faster overall speed...better average damage...life tap will take care of most leeching needs. IMO - focus on the pvp side, since a good pvp zealot will do fine in pvm, but not the other way around. BOTD is best in eth zerker or even the long overlooked warspike (lower upper damage but much higher lower damage)

[BarbieSlawter]

Hmm... So I will use PB Grief for my weapon guys! Thanks! But that leaves the question to the armor.

[Master Q]

eBotD Zerk Axe for sure. Grief can't even match the damage this one can reach on a well built zealot. With maxed out sacrifice, zeal, fanaticism + might & concentration from my merc I reach 14k dmg. Tried grief and could barely have 2k when Venom activated. As for armor, go for Fortitude. That 300% ed is what you're looking for.

[inanefedaykin]

Master Q, don't trust the charecter screen.

This all hinges on whether or not you're doing PvP or PvM really.

[Master Q]

Yeah don't trust but 14k vs 2k is a bit great approximation, even if I know the char screen isn't that precise..

[tuvard]

Use botdGpa

[BarbieSlawter]

Thinking about the damage... now I want to use Ebotdz.... but what about the armor? Should I look for the 300% ed like master q said with fort?

[redtan]

About the damage that master q said, it's not that different, and definitely not 14k vs 2k.

I a high end ebotd will be in the 4k-14k range, then the grief will be in the 10k-11k range. Choose whichever one you want, but I'd rather go for the constant 10k damage.

[ruthlessAnarchy]

eBotD Zerk Axe for sure. Grief can't even match the damage this one can reach on a well built zealot. With maxed out sacrifice, zeal, fanaticism + might & concentration from my merc I reach 14k dmg. Tried grief and could barely have 2k when Venom activated. As for armor, go for Fortitude. That 300% ed is what you're looking for.
none of the +300-400 damage on the grief is calculated in the character screen, the damage is way way higher, Way Higher. There is a post that shows how this is calculated i will find it and link it, trust me though your doing alot more than 2k damage.

[BarbieSlawter]

I see... LOL This takes my mind back on getting grief...

[TheBassman]

The 2k Master q is seeing is ONLY the damage from the Phase Blade itself and all others sources of +maxdmg. The +dmg modifier from Grief is NOT displayed on the character screen but the damage is most certainly in the 8k+ region depending on the setup.

Also the ITD & PMH on grief are very good PvM mods, but remember not to stack poison charms on your zealot since the venom will reduce the duration to .4 seconds (thus reducing the poison damage proportionately.)

[BarbieSlawter]

Thanks!
So I plan on using grief but does anyone have any suggestions for the armor of a zealot?

[ShazamLies]

PvM - Fort or Enigma so you can tele through spots

PvP - So many armors to choose from... Fort for damage, Eth Stones for defense, Enigma for vita, Levi for Dr/def, etc etc there are even more viable armor choices.

And btw, Grief > Ebotd any which way in one-handed weapons. Ontop of the ITD and PMH, you have venom and deadly strike which are sizeable damage increases. Also in a PB, you can easily hit max zeal even if you are holyfreezed.

[Summerfun]

Grief has more dmg than any BoTD. BY FAR

The dmg on Grief is "bugged"
Look at it thi way, it adds 400 (if you roll a perfect Grief) to both min and max dmg. So a phase blade could have 431-435 damage.

Thats much more than a 415% BoTD Berserker Axe.
Grief allso has 20% DS.

[ruthlessAnarchy]

PvM - Fort or Enigma so you can tele through spots

PvP - So many armors to choose from... Fort for damage, Eth Stones for defense, Enigma for vita, Levi for Dr/def, etc etc there are even more viable armor choices.

And btw, Grief > Ebotd any which way in one-handed weapons. Ontop of the ITD and PMH, you have venom and deadly strike which are sizeable damage increases. Also in a PB, you can easily hit max zeal even if you are holyfreezed.
eth Levi would be sick as well
eth upped shaft sick
(cheap) upped shaft

Honestly I think whatever weapon you choose will be absolutely sick, 95% of bnet wont have either. I can only speak from experience but my crappy rolled grief (I say crappy lol) +348 dmg straight ownz. I'm not really geared up or think I'm geared up for PvP but I 1 shot alot of people, pvm, it's silly, anything that is not a boss gets straight whoooooped with ITD and I only have 65-75% to hit most everything in hell and hit them all the time b/c of ITD. Vs bosses and ubers I just use smite and it's over, I couldn't see a better weapon PvM but take this with a grain of salt I've only used grief, but you WILL be very pleased if you use it, I know I am. GL on the desicion. BTW did ubers 3 times last night with my bud, there was no need for weapon switch, takes 30 seconds to kill meph, dury, izzy, andy, and 45 seconds for baal-diablo at the same time.

[scottrick49]

Grief is always better, assuming all other equipment is equal. Both weapons will easily hit 4 fpa zeal.

With perfect 15% sup zerker axe with 400% BOTD ED roll, you have:

47.5 [Zerker Avg Dmg] * 1.5 [Ethereal] * 5.15 = [b]366.9 Base Average Damage

With perfect 15% Phaseblade and +400 GRIEF roll, you have:

33 [Phaseblade Avg Dmg] * 1.15 [15% Sup] + 400 [GRIEF Bonus] = 437.9 Base Average Damage

This gives you 19.3% more damage a swing with GRIEF.

The only other major differences between the weapons is the large leech bonus on BOTD. Because most zealots use Drac's, though, the life leech is that big of a deal. It is nice to get some mana leech, though, cause the grief user will need some mana leech from somewhere else. Also, +30 attributes on BOTD is nice, but doesn't make up for the large damage difference.

However, GRIEF also has two really nice mods which make it even better than BOTD. Ignore's Target Defense means you hit all the time except versus bosses and pvp. Also, 20% Deadly Strike basically increases your damage by 20%. When factoring in the deadly strike bonus, GRIEF's average damage comes to 525.4. This is 43% more damage a swing on average with GRIEF than BOTD.

So in my opinion, there is no contest. GRIEF is wayyy better for a zealot. I'd go so far to say that GRIEF is the best one handed weapon in the game in pretty much all situations concerning physical damage, but I don't have time right now to post all the math.

[TheBassman]

Eth Zod'd Gladiator's Bane Wire Fleece for PvP zealot vs zealot.

[Summerfun]

Grief is always better, assuming all other equipment is equal. Both weapons will easily hit 4 fpa zeal.

With perfect 15% sup zerker axe with 400% BOTD ED roll, you have:

47.5 [Zerker Avg Dmg] * 1.5 [Ethereal] * 5.15 = [b]366.9 Base Average Damage

With perfect 15% Phaseblade and +400 GRIEF roll, you have:

33 [Phaseblade Avg Dmg] * 1.15 [15% Sup] + 400 [GRIEF Bonus] = 437.9 Base Average Damage

This gives you 19.3% more damage a swing with GRIEF.

The only other major differences between the weapons is the large leech bonus on BOTD. Because most zealots use Drac's, though, the life leech is that big of a deal. It is nice to get some mana leech, though, cause the grief user will need some mana leech from somewhere else. Also, +30 attributes on BOTD is nice, but doesn't make up for the large damage difference.

However, GRIEF also has two really nice mods which make it even better than BOTD. Ignore's Target Defense means you hit all the time except versus bosses and pvp. Also, 20% Deadly Strike basically increases your damage by 20%. When factoring in the deadly strike bonus, GRIEF's average damage comes to 525.4. This is 43% more damage a swing on average with GRIEF than BOTD.

So in my opinion, there is no contest. GRIEF is wayyy better for a zealot. I'd go so far to say that GRIEF is the best one handed weapon in the game in pretty much all situations concerning physical damage, but I don't have time right now to post all the math.

I think you did enough math allredy! Its sad that a pretty cheap rune word IS the best weapon choice 99% of the time.

Grief is just allways better than a BoTD.

[BarbieSlawter]

I have picked my weapon to be PB Grief! I got it this afternoon and I am WAY over pleased! On the character screen it only showed to do about 2k but when I actually used it, it was CRAZY GOOD!

Thank you all so much guys~!!!

[scottrick49]

I think you did enough math allredy! Its sad that a pretty cheap rune word IS the best weapon choice 99% of the time.

Grief is just allways better than a BoTD.

A while back I did a bunch of math comparing grief on a frenzy barb against 2x last wish, last wish and botd, 2x botd, last wish and grief, and 2x grief. 2x grief was the best setup. I don't think I ever posted my calculations, but I did it for myself to figure out what I wanted to use on my frenzy barb. Bottom line: Grief is always the best for 1h damage.

[Summerfun]

Im not 100% sure but i think that Grief + beast does more dmg over time than dual-Grief on a frenzy barb.

[ShazamLies]

Or grief/lawbring or lacerator!! But anyhoo... this is the paladin forum :laugh:

With the right equipment, I think an EDeath Zerker can outdamage a grief in the 1handed category, and outright destroy it 2h. Inventory full of 3/20/20's helps with this too as the higher DS makes added damage even better than grief. Not to mention that FAT crushing blow % is ungodly in pvm and who can deny that glacial blast is not the sexiest mod to proc for a zealer. Freezing hordes of enemies as you hit them is priceless...

Only downside is you actually need a lot of IAS to hit the last BP with a Edeath Zerker, but hey 120/45 helms are all the rage.

[scottrick49]

2x GRIEF is better than 1x GRIEF and BEAST - i did that calculation.

I didn't compare grief/lawbringer and grief/lacerator, but thinking about it right now I imagine the damage output would be greater when decryptify or amplify damage have went off.

[AnimeCraze]

Or grief/lawbring or lacerator!! But anyhoo... this is the paladin forum :laugh: This is a very scary thought.

[Veilside]

Or grief/lawbring or lacerator!! But anyhoo... this is the paladin forum :laugh:

With the right equipment, I think an EDeath Zerker can outdamage a grief in the 1handed category, and outright destroy it 2h. Inventory full of 3/20/20's helps with this too as the higher DS makes added damage even better than grief. Not to mention that FAT crushing blow % is ungodly in pvm and who can deny that glacial blast is not the sexiest mod to proc for a zealer. Freezing hordes of enemies as you hit them is priceless...

Only downside is you actually need a lot of IAS to hit the last BP with a Edeath Zerker, but hey 120/45 helms are all the rage.

That's why you use a warspike death, not BA :wink3:

[BarbieSlawter]

What would be better .... Last Wish or Grief?

[deves]

I was gonna make a botd for my zealer, after reading this though I think I will go for a grief. Have the weapon just need the runes now.
On the issue of damage shown on char screen, if I understand corectly the damage shown is not the damage you do, I did wonder about this on the last ladder when it said I did 4K damage but i seemed to kill rather effectively.