View Full Version : Warrior-mage, AR question
FinalFantasyFreak
26-06-2007, 02:09
I have been think of making my sorceress adept at melee combat to take out those that are Immune to my skills. My question is whether my AR will be good enough or not?
I am interested in some details here. Particularly, I am wondering the following:
1) Would a figure of, let's say around 100-125 def, and a SLv enchant 1-3 be enough to actually hit monsters most of the time?
2) If lv 1-3 enchant is not enough to make my attacks accurate, will my AR bonuses come mostly from gear then?
3) Does a melee sorceress usually get a high AR via her dex + enchant, or is good gear also needed on topš of that for her to have decent AR to land hits on monsters?
4) If a certain amount of dex and the enchant skill is enough for a sorceress to get decent AR, then how much dex does one need for good AR, and which lv should enchant be in this case?
I have never played one so I thought I might just try it ^^ However, I do need a few pieces of info first, and so I would like to know some of the stuff above, if anyone is willing to help out. Thank you ^^
1) Depends on the actual monster and your normal AR (isn't this OBVIOUS?), as you may've noticed enchant increases % not raw ar.
2. Yeah. Does AR bonuses come from other places then possibly GEAR and charms?
3. Does she, she should have maxblock so points aren't wasted anyways, ( dex isn't there to boost ar anyways, the AR doesn't come from good gear, but mostley from rings - raven frost, Angelic combos ( from other gear )
4. Max block, dex isn't supposed to be placed for AR, it gives a tiny bonus anyways.
FinalFantasyFreak
26-06-2007, 16:47
1) Depends on the actual monster and your normal AR (isn't this OBVIOUS?), as you may've noticed enchant increases % not raw ar.
I know it increases Ar by a %, no worries :) And yes sorry for the inaccurate info there, I was thinking hell monsters basically. My normal AR is something I do not know yet sadly, as I haven't calculated it yet :(
2. Yeah. Does AR bonuses come from other places then possibly GEAR and charms?
Yes it does, enchant, auras, barbarian skills, Oskills etc, if you really wanna know ^^ Thanks for the answer to that one :)
3. Does she, she should have maxblock so points aren't wasted anyways, ( dex isn't there to boost ar anyways, the AR doesn't come from good gear, but mostley from rings - raven frost, Angelic combos ( from other gear )
Ah yes, I see, guess I'll keep a lookout for rings and amulets then, and a weapon that helps my accuracy, such as one with -25% monster defense etc. Thanks again, that's been a big help, now I can plan a bit more accurately ^^ I never really played a melee class save for a paladin so i would not know, as my paladin was low level when i stopped playing. I usually always stuck around with a typical caster sorceress, this is the first time I had to deal with AR, so many questions arose ^^
4. Max block, dex isn't supposed to be placed for AR, it gives a tiny bonus anyways.
Acknowledged! Thank you for the answers ^^
I have been think of making my sorceress adept at melee combat to take out those that are Immune to my skills. My question is whether my AR will be good enough or not?
I am interested in some details here. Particularly, I am wondering the following:
1) Would a figure of, let's say around 100-125 def, and a SLv enchant 1-3 be enough to actually hit monsters most of the time?
2) If lv 1-3 enchant is not enough to make my attacks accurate, will my AR bonuses come mostly from gear then?
3) Does a melee sorceress usually get a high AR via her dex + enchant, or is good gear also needed on topš of that for her to have decent AR to land hits on monsters?
4) If a certain amount of dex and the enchant skill is enough for a sorceress to get decent AR, then how much dex does one need for good AR, and which lv should enchant be in this case?
I have never played one so I thought I might just try it ^^ However, I do need a few pieces of info first, and so I would like to know some of the stuff above, if anyone is willing to help out. Thank you ^^
As for your questions:
1. I think you'll need more AR. With high level enchant, you won't need to worry much about AR.
2. Gear + charms + rings + a bit of dex.
3. I got mine mostly through enchant and some through dex and charms. Decent gear will actually take you quite far with a melee sorc.
4. 70-100 dex and max enchant + its synergies, IMO. With maxed enchant, warmth, and fire mastery, you will be able to do thousands and thousands of fire damage. See my comments below.
Right before the ladder reset, I tinkered with a melee enchant sorc who leveled up to about 50. Here's what I can tell you from my experience:
1. Enchant is awesome, whether you plan on doing melee or ranged (as some enchantresses do). I actually had a dual setup, so that I would go melee with most enemies, then ranged for dealing with bosses or quick magic-find runs like Frigid (where there are tons of enemies who might swarm and overpower you). If you want to hit hard and have good AR, max this. At lvl 50, my sorc could enchant herself to do 2300 fire damage. (At least according to the stats screen. It may have been more than that. I've heard enchant can do much more and not show its true damage.) How's that for hard hitting? And other party members and your merc will love you. I can't count how many times people thanked me for enchanting them. Even if your friends have crap equipment, suddenly they're doing thousands of damage and killing things like pros.
2. Dexterity in some ways is more important than vitality. High dex + good blocking shield will keep you alive. Because the return for vitality is so bad for a sorc when spending stat points, you should think about getting your Dex up to about 70-100, depending on what weapon you're using. Probably more if you realy want to do a ranged fighter sorc. I settled on 80ish at that time with my sorc, because I wanted to use Hexfire as my primary weapon. Add life through items and charms. The enchant sorc thread suggests about 1,000 or more life for hell difficulty. I had about 300 life on mine. It would've been great to have more, but add it through +life items like belts, rings, etc.
3. Get a lot of fast hit recovery items. You will get hit, and the sorc has awful hit recovery.
4. Get a good shield. I was using Sigon's on my sorc at level 50, even though I could've given her a Lidless Wall or something else. Since she was an experiment, I didn't twink her fully like I did with my regular magic sorceress. Get a shield with high block, lots of resists, and +life or +skills. Spirit is good for this, if you can take the high str requirement for a monarch.
5. Get teleport. Zing around the place and in and out of danger's way.
6. Levels before 30 are a little slow, but after your Warmth, Enchant, and Fire Mastery are at high levels, you will level like mad, because you do so much damage. Not only that, you can power up other players and yourself so much that runs, any kind of runs, become a joke in normal and nightmare.
7. Skip mana shield. With high blocking, resists, and life, you shouldn't need it. When in danger, switch to ranged or let your merc deal with it and teleport away. If your defense is low, maybe you should also look into a cold skill like Frozen Armor or Shiver Armor to boost defense. I was starting to work a bit on Shiver Armor and probably would've maxed it after I finished maxing fire mastery.
I'm not sure how she'd fair in hell difficulty, but I'd imagine you'd want to switch your mercs equipment to some other damage type than fire, and get something like an Azurewrath or decent one-handed sword or weapon to help deal other elemental damages for fire-immune monsters. Another thing you could try is to make a Spirit sword if you can find a good 4-socket dimensional or phase blade for the +2 skills.
FinalFantasyFreak
26-06-2007, 18:30
Really nice write up Maiko! Thanks a lot for the effort in your post, and the answers to my questions, they helped out a lot :) It was a very interesting read, and now I have a more accurate idea of my melee sorceress, thanks!
However, i am not planning on going all out melee combat. I plan on being a hybrid that uses both spell casting and melee combat to kill enemies. My setup would be something like this (this is just an early experiment as far as skill points go, nothing accurate): 20 orb, 20 fireball and Meteor, 1 point in FM. 1 point wonders of course. Basically I only engage in melee combat against monsters immune to both cold AND fire, or if they are highly resistant to fire/cold. Also maybe 10 points in enchant, and 10 in shiver armor ^^ I do not plan on maxing enchant since melee combat will not be my priority. So as you can think, fire damage from enchant won't be playing much of a role since i plan to kill with meteor/fireball, it's only the AR I am interested in as far as enchant goes ^^
My stats would be something like this: enough dex for 50% block or maybe 40%, whatever I deem is enough ^^ Shiver armor for much more DR so I can tank my foes, and a nice weapon with mods such as crushing blow maybe, additional lightning damage (since i got fire and cold spells to deal with others). I'll keep energy at base as I always do, and just get a few items to add to my mana.
That's a rough sketch of my warrior mage concept there, I can fight in melee when needed but also use spells to my advantage, so it's not a pure melee sorceress.
Some addition:
Ranged option shows inaccurate in the screen, the right amount of damage is shown at the Enchant buttom.
There's an enchantress guide, from what I remember in melee the damage double applies. Screen being bugged still.
Ranged attacks fire damage will double attack when you have Explosive arrows. Explosive arrows always hit, however the first arrows is still affected by AR to hit, here's when a Act1 merc will be intresting.
You should read the guide.
FinalFantasyFreak
26-06-2007, 19:05
I actually did read one, but there was nothing about AR sadly :( I also have another one but it's kinda outdated. So I thought I'd turn to these forums for some help ^^
Oh and btw, why are you actually talking about exploding arrows and ranged attacks here, if I might ask? ^^ I mean I could maybe guess why, but it doesn't have much to do with a sorceress :)
Oh and btw, why are you actually talking about exploding arrows and ranged attacks here, if I might ask? ^^ I mean I could maybe guess why, but it doesn't have much to do with a sorceress :)
Ehem, Bows can have that mod, and Ranged merc act 1 can shot fire arrows.
Gloves can also spawn with the Explosive arrows charges.
Really nice write up Maiko! Thanks a lot for the effort in your post, and the answers to my questions, they helped out a lot :) It was a very interesting read, and now I have a more accurate idea of my melee sorceress, thanks!
No prob. What's funny is that girl who was an experiment turned out to be one of my most fun characters. I highly encourage others to give a melee sorc or enchant sorc a try. I only met one other enchant sorc in the time I played her, and that enchantress was ranged while I was mostly melee. Everyone else must've thought we were crazy or something. I'm remaking my girl on the new ladder, although I'll wait a bit until I can get some more sorc-oriented equip for her. :)
However, i am not planning on going all out melee combat. I plan on being a hybrid that uses both spell casting and melee combat to kill enemies. My setup would be something like this (this is just an early experiment as far as skill points go, nothing accurate): 20 orb, 20 fireball and Meteor, 1 point in FM. 1 point wonders of course. Basically I only engage in melee combat against monsters immune to both cold AND fire, or if they are highly resistant to fire/cold. Also maybe 10 points in enchant, and 10 in shiver armor ^^ I do not plan on maxing enchant since melee combat will not be my priority. So as you can think, fire damage from enchant won't be playing much of a role since i plan to kill with meteor/fireball, it's only the AR I am interested in as far as enchant goes ^^
Ah, good, you'll have the synergies going for meteor and fireball for mucho damage. I had a fireball/meteor sorc, and she could do some unholy damage with her meteors. In that case, maybe find a 4-socketed dimensional sword or phaseblade for a Spirit sword, so you can cast and then when needed run up and melee for some damage and hit quickly. Or use a nice rune-worded weapon to really add some punch to your melee. Nice low to mid-level unique swords are Hellplague and Hexfire for the +fire skills and mods. I used both on my melee sorc. I didn't get the chance to create a Spirit sword for her, but I probably will this time around, for the +2 skills, +100 mana, fcr, and fhr. Check your sorc's AR every once in a while to make sure it's within the ballpark of like 80%+ for hitting enemies. IIRC, for melee classes, you're usually good to go if you have around 4,000+ AR at higher levels. Also, with a few +skills items, you'll be getting like +5-10 for enchant anyway, so that'll put you around 15-20 enchant with your planning. Sounds good to me. If you need more, get +AR rings or +AR small charms. I had a few of those on my girl and their small bonus is greatly enhanced by Enchant's %AR bonus.
That level of shiver armor also sounds good. It really sucks when shiver armor runs out in the middle of combat.
My stats would be something like this: enough dex for 50% block or maybe 40%, whatever I deem is enough ^^ Shiver armor for much more DR so I can tank my foes, and a nice weapon with mods such as crushing blow maybe, additional lightning damage (since i got fire and cold spells to deal with others). I'll keep energy at base as I always do, and just get a few items to add to my mana.
Heh, even 50% feels kind of low after running with my paladins and their 60-75% block and Holy Shield. But it is great for a sorc. You'll find a good balance with her defense and blocking. When you get hit too much, either defense or blocking is out of balance, and it should be simple to correct.
That's a rough sketch of my warrior mage concept there, I can fight in melee when needed but also use spells to my advantage, so it's not a pure melee sorceress.
Let us know how she fares. I think you'll probably get a few dropped jaws when you run up and start smacking tough enemies. People were always surprised when I ran up to Baal's minions and started chopping. They were like, "SORC, WAT R U DOING?? DON'T U NO U WILL DIE!!!1!!!" That made me feel very happy.
One more tip I have is to make a "Leaf" staff in a 2-socketed staff with +1-3 enchant, warmth, or fire mastery. I followed that from the enchantress guide and used it until I got my Hexfire. Good for buffing others or your merc, although, IIRC, enchant's fire damage and AR bonus depends on current equip when applied to yourself.
Ehem, Bows can have that mod, and Ranged merc act 1 can shot fire arrows.
Gloves can also spawn with the Explosive arrows charges.
The bow I used on switch was a "shael'd" Kuko, with its explosive arrows. I didn't have a Demon Machine. I usually used it on Baal's minions until I ran out of arrows. Then I'd break out the sword and shield and charge into battle.
Btw, this was my equip for my melee enchantress:
Rare circlet +1 fire skills, 20% fcr, +18 res all, and some other mods.
Eye of Elitch (borrowed from mageazon)
Sigon's gloves and boots for 30% IAS set bonus and life leech
Sigon's shield
Vipermagi (very nice stats for a caster and pretty decent def for low to mid levels)
Kuko on switch
Belt with +90 life
Fast cast rings with +AR and life
Not godly at all, but she did very well with less than optimal equipment.
If I was really going to twink a melee sorc, I would put as much of Tal's equipment on her as possible, perhaps barring Tal's orb. Loads of magic find, life, mana, and leech! Substitute weapon of choice. :wink3:
FinalFantasyFreak
27-06-2007, 02:01
Ehem, Bows can have that mod, and Ranged merc act 1 can shot fire arrows.
Gloves can also spawn with the Explosive arrows charges.
Ah right I see what you mean but my setup includes 20 points into fireball and meteor so I don't need ranged weapons to do any decent fire damage, and I do plan on playing without a mercenary. Although I admit I did not think of a mercenary ^^
Thanks for your input there.
FinalFantasyFreak
27-06-2007, 02:20
No prob. What's funny is that girl who was an experiment turned out to be one of my most fun characters. I highly encourage others to give a melee sorc or enchant sorc a try. I only met one other enchant sorc in the time I played her, and that enchantress was ranged while I was mostly melee. Everyone else must've thought we were crazy or something. I'm remaking my girl on the new ladder, although I'll wait a bit until I can get some more sorc-oriented equip for her. :)
Indeed, i also think it might be very fun ^^ I found out that not all monsters can be dealt with via elemental damage and a tri-elem sorceress just doesn't pack a punch when you get to hell, it's extremely weak sadly :( So I decided to focus on 2 trees to take out most monsters, and melee when I encounter monsters immune to both cold and fire. Since those won't be immune to lightning, it will be rather fun to get close in melee, spam static for a world of hurt, and the finish them off with a good melee weapon, shoulnd't be that hard thanks to static ^^
I am doing more and more research and my plan is quickly falling in place too :) What's left is to sort out a few possible problems and choose my end game gear to base my stats on and there we go!
Ah, good, you'll have the synergies going for meteor and fireball for mucho damage. I had a fireball/meteor sorc, and she could do some unholy damage with her meteors. In that case, maybe find a 4-socketed dimensional sword or phaseblade for a Spirit sword, so you can cast and then when needed run up and melee for some damage and hit quickly. Or use a nice rune-worded weapon to really add some punch to your melee. Nice low to mid-level unique swords are Hellplague and Hexfire for the +fire skills and mods. I used both on my melee sorc. I didn't get the chance to create a Spirit sword for her, but I probably will this time around, for the +2 skills, +100 mana, fcr, and fhr. Check your sorc's AR every once in a while to make sure it's within the ballpark of like 80%+ for hitting enemies. IIRC, for melee classes, you're usually good to go if you have around 4,000+ AR at higher levels. Also, with a few +skills items, you'll be getting like +5-10 for enchant anyway, so that'll put you around 15-20 enchant with your planning. Sounds good to me. If you need more, get +AR rings or +AR small charms. I had a few of those on my girl and their small bonus is greatly enhanced by Enchant's %AR bonus.
That level of shiver armor also sounds good. It really sucks when shiver armor runs out in the middle of combat.
Indeed, i really need a good sword so I can pack a serious punch when in melee combat. I always prefer to let my magic wreak havoc from afar, since some monsters can be really nasty, and I'm not just talking about LEB-s and MSLEB-s, but also the dolls that explode...there's no way I'll risk melee with those guys, best way to get myself killed o_O
Hmmm so you're saying that an AR of 4,000+ would fare well in hell? That's the kind of info I wanna hear ^^ Shouldn't be too hard with a decent ring and some charms really, don't see a problem there ^^ It would seem you and em both really like a melee oriented sorceress, nt many of our kind around I see lol.
Heh, even 50% feels kind of low after running with my paladins and their 60-75% block and Holy Shield. But it is great for a sorc. You'll find a good balance with her defense and blocking. When you get hit too much, either defense or blocking is out of balance, and it should be simple to correct.
I know what you mean, I'd love to have more, but my life is suffering more than I'd like it to due to the fact I am putting points into DEX and STR, so I was aiming for a lower figure of around 50% block. But given the fact that my DR will be decent with good gear and a higher level shiver armor, I think I got good protection :) Besides, most of the monsters I will deal with from afar, but I still want good protection vs. physical attacks, after all that's the goal of the build!
Let us know how she fares. I think you'll probably get a few dropped jaws when you run up and start smacking tough enemies. People were always surprised when I ran up to Baal's minions and started chopping. They were like, "SORC, WAT R U DOING?? DON'T U NO U WILL DIE!!!1!!!" That made me feel very happy.
One more tip I have is to make a "Leaf" staff in a 2-socketed staff with +1-3 enchant, warmth, or fire mastery. I followed that from the enchantress guide and used it until I got my Hexfire. Good for buffing others or your merc, although, IIRC, enchant's fire damage and AR bonus depends on current equip when applied to yourself.
That I will. It won't take me long to level her up, I will be doing hardcore, but before I try that i will try my concept in SF, so i can perfect it and adjust for HC mode, if needed. It's a new concept for me, so I don't wanna rush blindly into anything. If one thing is for sure, it's that you don't wanna do HC unprepared. I will let you know how well my sorceress fares in SC, and will try to perfect my play style as much as I can.
Thaks for that tip, pretty good idea :) I'll try get a hexfire or something similar suitable to my needs. I might prefer mods like CB, prevent monster heal etc, and even a mod to reduce my targets' DR by a certain %, makes it all that much easier to kill monsters more effectively.
Thanks a lot for your great info and input on this, hope we can exchange info in the future, since it seems there aren't a lot of people interested in this kind of concept, and we both take a liking to a warrior-mage ^^
Darkflight
27-06-2007, 13:42
If you get some Crushing blow and use a 6-socket Phase Blade with 4 Eth Runes and 2 Shael runes you can forget about AR. :thumbsup:
FinalFantasyFreak
27-06-2007, 14:40
If you get some Crushing blow and use a 6-socket Phase Blade with 4 Eth Runes and 2 Shael runes you can forget about AR. :thumbsup:
Hmmm interesting indeed, I was kindly pointed to the fact that I could also use a demon limb for lv 21 enchant charges. Not sure if it's expensive to use and waste those, I might end up putting points into enchant anyway, depending on whether it costs a lot of money to recharge the item.
Thanks for your input I may experiment with those and see what I can do ^^
But if I plan on using a special runeword sword I guess I might just as well forget about this, but it is indeed a good idea.
FinalFantasyFreak
27-06-2007, 16:00
Sorry for the double post, but I can't edit my post anymore :(
I did some research and found this sword.
Headstriker, battle sword
One-Hand Damage: 40 To (86-184) (63-112 Avg)
Required Level: 39
Required Strength: 92
Required Dexterity: 43
Durability: 32
Base Weapon Speed: [0]
150% Enhanced Damage
+ (1 Per Character Level) 1-99 To Maximum Damage (Based On Character Level)
(1.5 Per Character Level) 1-148 % Deadly Strike (Based On Character Level)
Prevent Monster Heal
+15 To Strength
I was thinking, maybe this could be my end game sword? It always deals double damage on higher levels, and has prevent monster heal as well so no regen for those pesky punks. And I was also thinking socketing this weapon with an Um rune, for 25% chance of open wounds to deal huge damage. Or maybe a Ber rune for crushing blow but I am not hoping to find a ber rune that fast.
But all in all I think this sword with 100% deadly strike, 25% open wounds and prevent monster heal could be all I need to kill monsters effectively.
Any thoughts on this? Or maybe someone has a better suggestion? :)
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