A Stone of Contention - Comments Thread [Archive]

RevenantsKnight

01-07-2007, 23:58

Sorry about the delay in comments; these are on Part 1 only.

* * *

Interesting, I’d say...the action here was enough to keep me reading, even though this was somewhat unfamiliar. With that and the likable lead (and the pony.) you’ve got me wanting the next part, all right. I think you may have done a little too much telling in the narration, though; while it generally wasn’t a huge problem, there were a few points that seemed a bit awkward. Overall, though, this seemed pretty smooth to me. Some specific comments:

The rare mineral contained a magic that was the essential ingredient in all of the finest weapons and armor to be had anywhere in Eres.

This felt a little too much like the narrator forcing in something the reader should know, in my opinion. Granted, Swaglord seems quite aware of this, but because this paragraph’s jaunt away from the story world felt a bit disruptive, my gut feeling was that it didn’t quite fit here. Also, this is probably all accurate, but it did seem a bit overdone on a first read. I mean, when you string together “rare,” “magic,” “essential” and “finest weapons and armor to be had anywhere” all in one sentence, it feels like overkill, even if it’s true.

By the way, “Swaglord” didn’t seem horrifically bad to me or anything, but then I read this expecting this to have some of your usual humor, so some silliness seemed par for the course. If you’re trying to play this one completely straight and serious, then yeah, I’d start looking around for another name, but it doesn’t seem like you are to me.

For this reason smiths prized it, and warriors of all sorts treasured it, battled for it, and would often pay quite handsomely for even the smallest piece.

“For this reason” seems unnecessary to me, since the reader should be able to make the inference from the previous sentence. Then again, maybe I’m just being over-sensitive to possible bits of telling.

Thus, far more than any aspect of its pleasing appearance, it was the prospect of having more gold in his pouch—considerably more--that brought the dreamy smile to Swaglord’s face.

Since you mention only one real aspect of the item’s “pleasing appearance,” “any aspect” felt a little awkward to me. Also, it’s a minor thing indeed, but the dashes around “considerably more” look odd when they’re of different styles.

He turned his head just in time to see a highland giant coming towards him at a full run, its club held high over one shoulder.

It’s not too bad so as to be unbelievable straight up, but him not hearing anything humanoid and in armor going at a full run is a little bit of a stretch.

In fact, the club-wielding giant now stood directly between him and them, neatly stacked on the ground next where he had been sitting.

Maybe it’s just me, but the ending phrase seems odd because it reads grammatically as if it refers to the giant. I mean, it’s clear in context, but in something like “The guards stood between him and the door, guns drawn,” the ending phrase describes the sentence’s subject (the guards.)

He knew he could probably evade most of the giant’s lumbering blows and eventually circle around to his weapons, but it was risky, especially if there were any more of its kind around that heard the commotion.

I’d word “that heard” as “to hear,” but it may well be correct as it is.

And before it could turn toward the unarmed knight and ready itself to deliver another blow, the small pony, barely knee-high to the tall highlander, took the initiative.

“Knee-high to the tall highlander” felt like too much of high and its variants to me for one sentence. Also, while this does read well enough as it is, it seems a little like unnecessary summary to me, so I might cut “took the initiative,” combining it with the sentence starting the next paragraph. Of course, you could also keep it as it is, because that sense of summarization isn’t readily apparent.

It did no injury to the giant, but it did knock it off-balance for another second, and more importantly, provided just the distraction that the knight needed.

“It did no injury” sounded a bit too detached to me...I might see if you can’t get this across with something more visual.

Spinning once and then again to build up momentum in his heavy shield, he launched himself into the giant’s face and chest just as it turned towards him, stunning it and giving him and his pony the precious seconds they needed.

Quite a jump for a guy in full armor, assuming that the giant’s more than seven feet tall. It also seems a bit redundant to say “giving him and his pony the precious seconds they needed,” since the reader should be able to infer that from “stunning” (it seems like it was longer than seconds, too.) At any rate, I smell a game skill. :grin:

Then he stood back and slowly and methodically—in an almost business-like fashion—reequipped himself with both sword and shield, as was his fashion.

I’d remove one use of “fashion” here.

As the giant came to its senses, Swaglord laid on a series of precise and efficient blows, while staying carefully behind his shield.

This read a bit dryly to me. Granted, I could see why you don’t want to take too long here, but even so, I’d think that you could write up a quick description that has a little more detail.

An unfamiliar voice came from behind him, “Muy bien, hombre.”

I think this should be two sentences, but that’s just me.

Before he knew what was happening he felt a gossamer web of silk twine fall over his head and close fast around him.

There should be a comma after “happening,” I think.

Anyway, it looks good so far, as mentioned, and I’ll try to get around to your latest post soon. Thanks for posting!

Snowglare

02-07-2007, 08:52

Swaglord did not have to wait long to find out who or what had attacked him. The face of a young woman soon appeared above him, followed immediately by a suitable neck and shoulders. They hovered over him for moment and then seemed to swoop down on him. He felt a sudden weight on his chest and realized she must be sitting on him.

Nice start, but you forgot an 'a' in there. *points* I'm afraid finding an error in the third sentence threw me irrevocably into critique mode for the remainder of this entry.

He was still feeling a little groggy from his sudden impact on the ground but he soon recognized her for what she was. The tight leather jerkin, the distinctive thin, war ribbons braided into her dark, short-cropped hair, the small tattoo dagger behind her ear-she was clearly a member of one of the many thieving guilds, collectively known as the rogues.

Noooo! Not generic character class appearance. Please no! That's one of the things I hate most about D2 fanfic: that so few people take the opportunity to replace Blizzard's noncustomizable characters with unique looks. People often deride fanfic as a crutch to avoid creating new worlds, characters, etc., but it can also be an excuse to create new things with restrictions that were only present to begin with because they made sense in the context of the source material. In other words, D2 (and apparently Last Chaos) only has generic looks for each character class because it's easier to create one cool design for everyone than thousands. They're more iconic, too, which admittedly comes into play here, but you don't need a red cape and an S-shield for people to know you're a superhero. Wearing your underwear on the outside? Also optional.

And there was something else he noticed as she stared down at him, the smirk on her lips, the smile that was almost laughter dancing about her eyes, she was looking particularly pleased with herself.

Maybe it's just me, but this feels too long for one sentence. Commas are tricky, though. I don't fully understand them.

It was bad enough that he had let himself and his pony be captured so easily

Heh. He sure likes that pony. Wonder what the story is there...

The rogue's smirk quickly grew into a wide smile and then she threw her head back and laughed. As she did so her hair flew up allowing the dulcet rays of the waning sun to fall across her elegant cheek bones and slender neck.

You totally just wanted to use "dulcet" in a sentence. Not that that's so bad. ;)

Despite his temper, Swaglord could not help thinking that under other circumstances he might not mind having one with such a pretty face as this sitting on his chest and smiling wickedly at him.

Needs more sexual tension. Or not, but I was disappointed in how little the whole chest-sitting scene moved me. There's high cuteness potential there, but on first read I didn't feel it.

She leaned toward him until Swaglord could feel her spicy breath on his chin.

Spicy breath! My only weakness! Heh, I liked this line.

"Really? she said, slapping him on each side of his face, a little harder now time.

I think that should be this time. Or each time, whichever you had intended.

"you are in know position to bargain."

Yeah... um, with the... you see it, right?

"You wouldn't dare!"

"Well, maybe I wouldn't. Killing you, even for a heaven stone, might not go down too well with my guild. We don't need another war with the Templars. On the other hand, there's no one around right now. Who would know?"

The dialogue is decidedly ping-pong. Most lines are direct replies to the last person's direct reply to... and it all makes the characters something of ciphers, like their words are dependent on the script rather than their own inclinations.

"If you were found out, well I wouldn't want to be you when your good friends in the guild find out."

Repitition can be good, but found out/find out in the same sentence? Suggestion: replace one or the other with a synonymous word or phrase. Prediction: resultant sentence will be more pleasing to the mind's eye.

But this time there was no mockery in her face. In its place was an expression of something that he had seen many times before, and knew only too well: greed.

Swaglord knew he had her.

To be continued…

Solid ending. Wish I could say I thought as highly of the bulk of the story.

0xDEADCAFE

02-07-2007, 18:50

Sorry about the delay in comments; these are on Part 1 only.

Great to hear from you Rev, as always. In general, I agree with most all your comments, but taken as a whole, they seem to belie a kind of reader-slant that begs the question, "What is fan fiction?" I'll get into that idea more below.

I think you may have done a little too much telling in the narration, though; while it generally wasn’t a huge problem, there were a few points that seemed a bit awkward. No argument about that. Glad it wasn't too bad. But this is interesting:

This felt a little too much like the narrator forcing in something the reader should know, in my opinion. I wonder what exactly you mean by this. You are right, of course, that this line is flagrantly and clumsily stuffed with background information, but what intrigues me is your assertion that the reader should already know this. How? Unless I assume that all readers have played the game.

It’s not too bad so as to be unbelievable straight up, but him not hearing anything humanoid and in armor going at a full run is a little bit of a stretch. It's a valid point, however, anyone who had played the game would know that their apparel consists mostly of animal skins with some belts and leather here and there. So we're back to that question again: do I assume knowledge of the game or not? And how much? (I'll admit that the silent approach is a bit of a stretch in any case, given their massive size and the degree of clumsiness attributed to them.)

Maybe it’s just me, but the ending phrase seems odd because it reads grammatically as if it refers to the giant. I'll bow to your reading on this. I tried to fix it by carefully putting "him and they" just before the clause that modifies the "they", but it's not enough. Probably needed a "which" to make it more clear. Or a wizard like yourself. ;-)

“Knee-high to the tall highlander” felt like too much of high and its variants to me for one sentence. Ugh. Good catch.

“It did no injury” sounded a bit too detached to me...I might see if you can’t get this across with something more visual. Another good catch. Plus it's an opportunity for a tongue-in cheek remark about the effect on the pony's noggin. (Can't believe I missed that!)

Quite a jump for a guy in full armor, assuming that the giant’s more than seven feet tall. It also seems a bit redundant to say “giving him and his pony the precious seconds they needed,” since the reader should be able to infer that from “stunning” (it seems like it was longer than seconds, too.) At any rate, I smell a game skill. :grin: I didn't actually picture the knight leaving the ground. He could have simply hiked his shield up and put his shoulder behind it. I think that would have a chance to cover the chest and face of even a 7-foot plus giant. And, yes, your sniffer is working perfectly.

I’d remove one use of “fashion” here. Ugh, again. I shall, post-haste.

This read a bit dryly to me. Granted, I could see why you don’t want to take too long here, but even so, I’d think that you could write up a quick description that has a little more detail. Nothing much to say here. Probably the biggest complaint about the game is that it is too "grindy." Something tells me no one needs to relive the details of the hack and slash. But then, it depends on what I assume about the reader, doesn't it?

So, I hope my questions don't come across as too argumentative. One of the nice things about this project is that the territory of Last Chaos fan fiction feels so fresh. As someone here was recently telling a poster, it's not their fault that the basics of D2 have been so thoroughly covered in this forum and elsewhere, but it's a fact that a D2 FF author has to deal with. And I totally agree with the point. I doubt I could stand to read yet another story that purports to tell why potions drop and how waypoints work no matter how well it was done.

But, if that matters, then doesn't it also matter that such is not the case with LC? I can't imagine telling an inspired-by-but-not-in-any-way-dependent-on-ingame-details story at this point. Okay, I can imagine it, but it wouldn't feel right, at least not now. I think there is a natural allure to reading a dramatization of a game you are fond of, including and even because of the obvious use of game elements. I feel certain that there is some appeal readers, and I know that it's just plain fun to write. The question is, to what extent. In this story, I am trying to find a balance between evoking game elements that are famiilar and full of appeal without becoming too trite and unoriginal. If I were writing this three years and hundreds of LC fan fictions from now, I'm sure I would do it differently.

I would also like it to appeal to people who have not played the game. And your comments are very helpful in that respect. Thanks much!

(Snow, I suspect I'll be picking up on some of these same themes when I reply to your post, which won't be until a bit later.)

0xDEADCAFE

03-07-2007, 19:24

Nice start, but you forgot an 'a' in there. *points* I'm afraid finding an error in the third sentence threw me irrevocably into critique mode for the remainder of this entry. Tough crowd, tough crowd... I tell ya I don't get no respect... Last night I made love to my wife and she complained that my modifiers were dangling. I told her that was one time when I would have appreciated a little more passive voice...

Noooo! Whatever I wrote, it was worth it just to get the image of you singing like a damsel in distress. Never fear, oh Snowble one, Under-DEAD(CAFE) is here!

Not generic character class appearance. Please no! That's one of the things I hate most about D2 fanfic: that so few people take the opportunity to replace Blizzard's noncustomizable characters with unique looks. People often deride fanfic as a crutch to avoid creating new worlds, characters, etc., but it can also be an excuse to create new things with restrictions that were only present to begin with because they made sense in the context of the source material. In other words, D2 (and apparently Last Chaos) only has generic looks for each character class because it's easier to create one cool design for everyone than thousands. They're more iconic, too, which admittedly comes into play here, but you don't need a red cape and an S-shield for people to know you're a superhero. Wearing your underwear on the outside? Also optional. Two things: 1) I did totally screw this up. 2) I did actually create some of this. To whit: I should not have described the entire list of characteristics as "easily recognizable." Way too pat and not realistic. What, are all the rogues clones of each other? Certainly not. In fact, I've never seen a dagger tattoo on an in-game rogue, behind the ear or anywhere else, nor a war-ribbon braided into their hair. I was actually kind of pleased with myself for inventing those details, but the way I wrote it, you were 100% justified in thinking that I was just running down a list of generic rogue features. My bad. Great catch. (Although, I should point out that someone who had played the game would, I think, have instantly picked up on the fact that I was embellishing the rogue's appearance, not merely describing what was in the game. Whether they would have liked my addition of the braid and tattoo is anyone's guess, but I think it's at least a potential plus in that regard.)

Heh. He sure likes that pony. Wonder what the story is there... I can't tell you how pleased I am that you picked up on that. Just picture the same damsel referenced above squealing with delight as she is being lifted off the railroad track by Dudley Sweet-Pecs. But you are going to have to wait for the sequel, "Robin the Wonder Pony," to find out more. (Not really...)

You totally just wanted to use "dulcet" in a sentence. Not that that's so bad. ;) Cosmic forces arrayed against the use of "dulcet": 0, Me: 1

Needs more sexual tension. Or not, but I was disappointed in how little the whole chest-sitting scene moved me. There's high cuteness potential there, but on first read I didn't feel it. I deliberately shied away from it. Partly because I felt it might not be suitable for some of the audience, but moreso for character development reasons.

Spicy breath! My only weakness! Heh, I liked this line.Thanks. (And I was afraid it might be too cliche. )

Yeah... um, with the... you see it, right? I no, I no!

The dialogue is decidedly ping-pong. Most lines are direct replies to the last person's direct reply to... and it all makes the characters something of ciphers, like their words are dependent on the script rather than their own inclinations. This is interesting. I just re-read that section. I'm not sure I'm seeing what you mean. I do see that some of it is rather comic-booky and filled with unessential details that do some of the narrator's work for him, but I'm not sure that a conversation of this kind wouldn't actually be a bit ping-pong. I mean, there's no deep subject matter here. He's got something she wants, they both know it, but he's trying to lie his way out of giving it to her and she's trying to convince him he should. Not sure I would expect anything different from people in this situation. Furthermore, (I don't think I'm giving too much away here) with regard to the dialogue following the plot, at the end of the dialogue the plot becomes rather committed to following the improvised lie the knight came up with. More like the plot following the dialogue. I'd sure be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this.

Solid ending. Wish I could say I thought as highly of the bulk of the story. Appreciate your candor. Let's see how long I can hold your interest.

So, picking up on my responses to RevK, the "recognizable character" issue that you brought up is another facet of the question: "What is fan fiction?" In that regard, isn't character recognizability, generic or otherwise, an essential quality of fan fiction? As is recognizability of place, of myth, and even of objects? Surely it can only be a matter of degree, as in it can be overdone, but if you take away all recognizabilty, you couldn't call it fan fiction, could you?

Thanks for your comments.

Snowglare

03-07-2007, 20:29

I can't tell you how pleased I am that you picked up on that.

It was pretty obvious, really. I was proud of myself for noticing it the first time, but after several more bits of subtext it was practically spelled out. As the shippers say, Swaglord/Pony OTP.

I deliberately shied away from it. Partly because I felt it might not be suitable for some of the audience, but moreso for character development reasons.

Far be it from me to encourage ribaldry. I was thinking more PG-13 style, but I'll leave you to write the story as you will.

This is interesting. I just re-read that section. I'm not sure I'm seeing what you mean. I do see that some of it is rather comic-booky and filled with unessential details that do some of the narrator's work for him, but I'm not sure that a conversation of this kind wouldn't actually be a bit ping-pong. I mean, there's no deep subject matter here. He's got something she wants, they both know it, but he's trying to lie his way out of giving it to her and she's trying to convince him he should. Not sure I would expect anything different from people in this situation. Furthermore, (I don't think I'm giving too much away here) with regard to the dialogue following the plot, at the end of the dialogue the plot becomes rather committed to following the improvised lie the knight came up with. More like the plot following the dialogue. I'd sure be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on this.

Not sure what else to say. It just felt to me like the idea was to get from point A to point B rather than have a naturally evolving conversation. But when I see really good dialogue, I tend to wonder how they did it. It's hard to imagine how two unique characters would interact with each other, neither doing quite what the other expected or wanted. Here they're a little too predictable, too convenient in their answers, and the conversation is not detoured from its intended end.

It's possible I'm being too harsh on the dialogue - like I said, I'm hardly an expert on the stuff - but a conversation like this is like a story where the characters don't disrupt things. When I see a character do something stupid that screws up some plan or opportunity, it's frustrating, but also interesting. Same thing when they say something or react to something said in an inconvenient way. It's like, "if you'd just agree, the problem would be solved," but they won't. You can go overboard with that and end up a sitcom, though. Tricky business.

So, picking up on my responses to RevK, the "recognizable character" issue that you brought up is another facet of the question: "What is fan fiction?" In that regard, isn't character recognizability, generic or otherwise, an essential quality of fan fiction? As is recognizability of place, of myth, and even of objects? Surely it can only be a matter of degree, as in it can be overdone, but if you take away all recognizabilty, you couldn't call it fan fiction, could you?

Thanks for your comments.

Certainly without anything borrowed, fiction would be just that. Not fannish enough by half to warrant special classification. But you can do D2 (again, I know nothing about Last Chaos, so I'll limit myself to D2 examples) fanfic without Akara or Gheed, without barbarians or amazons, without Diablo or Baal, and it could still be D2 fanfic. You need something, but it can be small or large, the only thing or one of many. And such elements needn't detract. I see nothing wrong with, for instance, including paladin auras in a story. It's only a problem when you start talking about "aura switching," or how the paladin has stacked level 30 holy shock from dream runewords and does a jillion damage per hit, or anything else that screams, "this is a videogame!" Not to be confused with real life, where you would lack a heads up display or any means by which to calculate how many hits it would take you to kill Hell Meph.

Videogame fanfic should remind people of the game world, but it should also translate things to the point where you don't feel like you're playing the game itself. I agree that some things, like potions, can't really be translated, but all you really need are the basics, if that. Take the storyline, the geography, the characters, and tell your tale. A Stone of Contention mostly succeeds in this regard. The characters feel more like people than collections of polygons, and I'm sure most of what you've written goes above and beyond the game's capabilities to show. The chest-sitting for instance, and the digging in a glove for treasure. They've yet to make a game where "The rogue slipped off her gloves and slid one hand between the ropes and into the sleeve of his gauntlet" can be portrayed outside of a cutscene, which would be noninteractive, which is antithetical to videogames.

"Don't tell me you’re gonna to get all macho on me."

Found another error. Should be gonna or going to. By the way, what's with all the Spanish phrases? You mentioned comic-booky before, and now I can't resist saying this rogue sounds like a comic book character, the sort Chris Claremont might write, with her smattering of common foreign phrases.

Disco-neck Ted

07-07-2007, 10:26

Hey, dead. Good to see more of your work here.

But... I'm about to say some bad things. Probably best to put it down to style differences and ignore it.

Got your eyes closed and the ipod cranked? Good.

You have a very deliberate way of telling a story. Often, the pacing is very well considered and helps the tale flow into the reader's consciousness. But sometimes I'm just screaming for you to get real, to get with it, to get down to the nitteh and the gritteh.

Take the start of the fight:

Springing to his feet, he quickly realized that his sword and shield were out of reach.
"Quickly realized"? These words are sloths! They add nothing, and they keep me one step removed from what is going on. My advice is to either leave them out or write a reaction with some strength to it. I want to see that his sword was out of reach, and if a realization is involved, I want to feel his emotional response to this turn of events.

Again, at the start of the second installment:

Swaglord did not have to wait long to find out who or what had attacked him.
This is only a little flabby, and under the circumstances, his attacker could well be a "what", but I'd tone this baby up. Being that precise isn't really necessary.

The face of a young woman soon appeared above him, followed immediately by a suitable neck and shoulders.
"Soon appeared" is a weak action, and unless something other than a "suitable neck and shoulders" makes an appearance, this is redundant. I know, it's a Dead style thing, but it just isn't adding anything to the story besides upping the word count. This sentence reads as if the swaglord is comparing what he sees to a checklist of what a girl looks like rather than instantly recognizing an everyday sight. Sure, some gamers need a "spotters guide" to identify the opposite sex, but I thought you were past that point, and the character should be as well.

They hovered over him for moment and then seemed to swoop down on him. He felt a sudden weight on his chest and realized she must be sitting on him.
Again with the realizing. Dude, when a chick sits on yer chest, you know it. Why does he have to figure this out? Would it be so terrible to write, "she sat on his chest", plain and direct, rather than beating around the bush?

There are probably other places where the character seems totally removed from the action, or words aren't pulling their weight. Take a look and see what you think. Or not.

Also, on a different note, I'm disappointed that our hero didn't come up with a better story when the rogue asks about the stone. Once she brings it up, there is hardly any point to denying its existence.

Overall, the story is all right, but definitely not my favorite of your works, not by a long shot. That said, when can we expect the next installment?

Luck with it.

-DnT

0xDEADCAFE

07-07-2007, 14:21

Tough crowd...

On the other forum, I get comments like these:

- "I love these. keep em comin!!!"

- "omfg"

- "What happens neext... who did that.. was it a pilifer lol.. this rocks lol.. awesome, u are a good writer too"

These are each full, complete comments, unedited and unabridged, except for the smileys. (I'm still wondering about the second one.) No one has pointed out any spelling, grammar or stylistic problems. Neither has anyone said what they like or dislike about any part of it. Over there I have posted 5 parts and the flow of comments, initially a babbling brook, has given way to something like a drip trail of sap on the side of an old fruit tree.

All of which points to why I post here. And let me just say before I get started: "Snow and Ted: Precious hateses you!!!" Ahem. Glad we got that out of the way.

I do write from point A to B, and, yes, it does have a deliberate feel, although I might have said "emphatic" instead. "Precise" seems right, too. I may be a little obsessed with clarity, perhaps overcompensating for a tendency toward obscurity. Or... Are you guys familiar with the concept of "regression to the mean?" It applies to all sorts of things from weather patterns to baseball players and, I suppose, especially to a software developer and sometime technical writer who attempts to write engaging fiction.

Some time ago I wrote a Diablo 2 piece (never posted) that was full of the usual dead puffery, not to mention some very deadly dialog, which single-handedly ended my writing hobby for several months. I wrestled that puppy to completion and by the time I was done I just hated it. The worst of it was getting to a point where every sentence wanted to start with the words "and then..." It was like my writing instinct was telling me to lay things out like a forensic doctor recreating a crime scene for a jury. It was awful. I wouldn't exactly call it writer's block because it seemed like I could have easily continued grinding out sentences along the line from A to B, but I just couldn't stand doing it.

Here's the ironic part, I don't write deliberately unless there is such a thing as spontaneous deliberation. In fact, I naturally do the opposite, which is to stream words to the page about as fast as I can type. Half the time, no, most of the time, I find it frustrating that I can't type it out even a tenth as fast as it comes to me. You might call this" "big, wet lump of consciousness" writing. Except that's not really possible, so I end up spending most of my time chasing the tail of a story that's already vanished over my mental horizon.

So I guess the deliberate, A-to-B feel is dead-on. (I made a pun!) When I go into fast-type mode, I may well end up rendering something like a specification of what I've already thunked up. No wonder it feels that way. Stuffing it with my usual stream of dreamy asides, half-witticisms, forced metaphors and poetic license abuses doesn't really make up for that, does it?

Hmm... Well, this is good stuff. You see, since I don't apply rules to what comes out, any learning that is going to affect the output must sink deep into that unreachable place where the words come from. I'm convinced that bad prose can't be edited into good prose. No list of hints and tips is going to enable me to achieve real improvement. That can only come through changing my fundamental perceptions of storytelling, which can only happen through a real change in my understanding. In other words, I need to "get it." And I'm wondering if a change in the process might help. Or if anything will.

Snow and Ted: I think I understand what you are saying and it's brought some things into focus for me. In fact, the experience of writing the most recent part (part VII) was all-too reminiscent of writing that D2 story I mentioned above. It felt forced; it felt hurried; it felt exactly like trying to get from point A to point B. Without going back and re-reading it, I'm willing to bet it will read that way, too. And I have the feeling that the story may well have entered a grindy phase.

So... I quit. Thank you for making it clear to me that I'm a terrible writer and that I should give up and never bother the world with my bad prose again. No. I don't think I'll quite do that. However, since the next 5 parts of this are already written (three of them are posted elsewhere) none of the good effects of these ruminations have any chance of appearing until much later on.

In the meantime, I'll keep posting weekly until the glorious finish or I kill myself--whichever comes first. I could obviously post all of what's already written in one big dump, but somehow I don't think the forum has the bandwidth to accept that.

Thanks for your comments.

Snowglare

07-07-2007, 17:20

Are you guys familiar with the concept of "regression to the mean?" It applies to all sorts of things from weather patterns to baseball players and, I suppose, especially to a software developer and sometime technical writer who attempts to write engaging fiction.

Oh, indeed. I've seen that term used many a time on Football Outsiders to explain an overachieving team or player. I don't buy it. You've written things - stories, forum posts - that've made me jealous, that've made me think I couldn't match them. I don't buy that those were flukes and this is what we should be expecting from you. Like you say, you've been forcing it a bit and this tale isn't evolving in the most natural way. Hey, it happens. At least you're writing something, exercising those muscles, and it's not as if it's wholly awful. Again, I'm envious of your ability to slog through when you don't feel particularly inspired. When I need to get from point A to point B, I tend to just give up; can't even force out a passable idea.

In the meantime, I'll keep posting weekly until the glorious finish

Good, good. The last thing I want is for my comments to kill your story. Too many stories good and bad go unfinished here, especially of the "regular updates" variety. I want this to continue if only as an example that it can be done. Which is not to say that you shouldn't give up on it if you grow to absolutely hate the story, but that's the only reason. Don't quit unless you want to. Keep those updates coming.

RevenantsKnight

08-07-2007, 01:19

Before I get really rolling on the next piece, a few clarifications and thoughts:

I wonder what exactly you mean by this. You are right, of course, that this line is flagrantly and clumsily stuffed with background information, but what intrigues me is your assertion that the reader should already know this. How? Unless I assume that all readers have played the game.

Whoops. Bad wording on my part, I guess...by “should know,” I mean that it’s important to the plot and that it is necessary for the reader to understand it to allow the story to proceed.

So, I hope my questions don't come across as too argumentative.

Nope, not at all. :smiley:

But, if that matters, then doesn't it also matter that such is not the case with LC? I can't imagine telling an inspired-by-but-not-in-any-way-dependent-on-ingame-details story at this point. Okay, I can imagine it, but it wouldn't feel right, at least not now. I think there is a natural allure to reading a dramatization of a game you are fond of, including and even because of the obvious use of game elements. I feel certain that there is some appeal readers, and I know that it's just plain fun to write. The question is, to what extent.

Yeah, I can see what you’re saying here, because it’s always kind of neat to see what someone else’s take on a game element is, or to write your own interpretation with an implicit smile-and-nod to other gamers. Personally, though, I like to write in game details underneath the obvious, observable layer of action, so that it’s often necessary for a moment of thought to realize what the game analogue is. I’m not saying that’s the best kind of fan fiction, or that it’s even appropriate in all cases, but for what I do, it seems a good compromise to me because there’s always something the non-initiated reader can understand while still keeping in some nods to the source. Obvious game element use is one of those fickle things that’s very case-by-case (I liked Swaglord’s shield-to-the-face in Part 1, but the rapid sword blows from behind the shield, something else that sounds like a game skill, seemed uncreative.) Often, I lean towards slightly expanding any game uses so that they’re more than one would normally see, unless the pacing demands something faster. That way, they’ve got an original flavor to them (which the shield smash did, for me.)

...I hope that wasn’t just me rambling.

On Part 2: a bit predictable, but it did keep my interest throughout. This did have a bit of a factual, “telling” sort of feel in the narration at times, “totally removed from the action” in Disco-neck Ted’s words, so that could also use some tightening up, perhaps. It’s not so bad, since a lot of this is dialogue, but it is noticeable. Anyway, here’re some specific comments, minus Snowglare’s and DnT’s catches:

The face of a young woman soon appeared above him, followed immediately by a suitable neck and shoulders.

I’m with DnT on the “soon appeared” bit, since there doesn’t seem to be much there, but the rest seemed okay to me. *shrug*

They hovered over him for moment and then seemed to swoop down on him.

I found that a bit confusing at first...I guess she just sat on him there, but it wasn’t immediately apparent. If you do want to, I might combine this with the next sentence, so that there’s a better connection between the two.

The tight leather jerkin, the distinctive thin, war ribbons braided into her dark, short-cropped hair, the small tattoo dagger behind her ear—she was clearly a member of one of the many thieving guilds, collectively known as the rogues.

Snowglare’s comments aside, the part after the description felt pretty analytical and distant to me, so I’d see if you can’t tie that in better to Swaglord’s perspective. Also, the tattoo caught me up for a moment, since I wasn’t initially sure that Swaglord would be able to see it if she’s facing him. I can see how he would, after a little thought, but that may be something to consider.

And there was something else he noticed as she stared down at him, the smirk on her lips, the smile that was almost laughter dancing about her eyes, she was looking particularly pleased with herself.

I think this is fine as one sentence, though the comma after “eyes” seems like it should be a colon or something to me. If you do that, I’d also word the sentence as “...stared down at him with that smirk...”

The rogue’s smirk quickly grew into a wide smile and then she threw her head back and laughed.

This does work as it is, but I might see if you can’t cut an “and” somewhere, so that it reads a little more smoothly.

As she did so her hair flew up allowing the dulcet rays of the waning sun to fall across her elegant cheek bones and slender neck.

Not a bad description by a long shot, though there should be commas around “her hair flew up,” I think, and “cheekbones” is one word.

Despite his temper, Swaglord could not help thinking that under other circumstances he might not mind having one with such a pretty face as this sitting on his chest and smiling wickedly at him.

Seemed fine to me, though if you want to roll with Snowglare’s thoughts, there’s probably room for another sentence here without messing up the pacing.

He squirmed beneath her, trying to roll from side to side to throw her off, but the ropes were too tight and she easily maintained her seat. But she did stop laughing.

I might cut one use of “but” between these two sentences. “Though” seems like a reasonable replacement, so long as you reword as needed.

“The way you handled that Highlander—well, it gave me goose bumps.”

I don’t think you capitalized “highlander” last time...and at any rate, this just reminded me of that movie that I haven’t seen.

“What?” He replied.

“He” should be in lowercase.

“I’ll slice you up like butcher stew.”

Seeing as I know of dishes such as “beef stew,” “butcher stew” sounded, well...

“Really? she said, slapping him on each side of his face, a little harder now time.

Snowglare’s catch aside, this is missing some closing quote marks.

“Don’t tell me you’re gonna to get all macho on me.”

This sounded oddly sloppy to me, particularly “gonna to” (which I thought was intentional,) since most of the rogue’s other dialogue seems rather proper. As for Snowglare’s comment on the Spanish, I don’t mind it too much, though the “hasta la vista” was waaay too reminiscent of a certain U.S. governor (and I haven’t even seen that movie either.)

“In the first place,” She turned the tip of the dagger toward his neck and poked him gently, “you are in know position to bargain. “

“She” shouldn’t be capitalized, and I think there’s an extra space between the period and the closing quotation marks.

“Well, maybe I wouldn’t.”

I didn’t get the ping-pong feel that Snowglare mentioned, personally, though it is predictable. More of a fault of the situation than the characters, though. I suppose that if you wanted to make sure this wasn’t going to be an issue, though, it might help to sprinkle in just a little more narration focusing on the players here so that it’s not just speech chasing speech (which you do, at a few points.)

“Quite a risk, though isn’t it?” Swaglord replied.

I think you need a comma after “though.”

”If you were found out, well I wouldn’t want to be you when your good friends in the guild find out.”

There should be a comma after “well.” And though this is dialogue coming from a guy under pressure, the repetition of “found/find out” was a bit awkward, as Snowglare said.

“Hmph.” She snorted.

I’m not sure if these are supposed to be separate actions, but if they aren’t, “she” shouldn’t be capitalized.

When she came back and kneeled next to him, he thought she looked a little angry.

I’d see if you can’t switch out “looked a little angry” for something a bit more involved from Swaglord’s perspective and visually appealing.

“If I don’t kill you it’s not because I can’t.”

There should be a comma after “you.”

“I’ll take the stone myself, just tell me where you hid it.”

I think the comma here should be a semicolon.

Swaglord couldn’t see what she was doing but in a few seconds he heard her walk over toward his pony, and then his pony whinnied.

I might just distill the end of this sentence down to “...but in a few seconds, his pony whinnied,” plus some extra description on the matter, since the rogue walking over would be implied there. Also, I think there should be a comma after “doing.”

“What are you doing?”

Seems unnecessary to me. I’d just jump in with the rogue’s threat and leave it at that.

It sounded like she was tying her rope around it, and then she was back at her horse again and he heard the heavy hoof steps of the large charger stamping the ground as if straining against something heavy.

The second part of this is good, but “It sounded like she was tying her rope around it” is too straightforward and explanatory to me, particularly when there isn’t a definitive sound for that. Something more descriptive may be in order, if possible.

His pony whinnied again and he could tell it was very unhappy.

I’d see if you can’t describe this, or other instances, as something other than just “whinnying,” because I’m sure the pony’s got other vocal sounds in its repertoire.

“I find it hard to believe that little pony could be old enough to have been with anyone for a long time, but it’s your animal.”

This seemed unnecessary to me and kind of odd, especially given the rogue’s fixation on getting the stone. I’d think she’d just get to the point here, but that could be a misreading of her character on my part.

“Come on, hombre, we don’t want to keep your friend all tied up, do we?”

The Spanish here isn’t italicized.

The rogue slipped off her gloves and slid one hand between the ropes and into the sleeve of his gauntlet. She had to lean on him while she reached around toward his gauntlet and slowly work her slender fingers through the ropes.

Seems to me like this might flow better as one sentence, though I could be wrong. Also, “work” in the second sentence should be “worked,” I think.

“Hasta la vista, sucker. “

Aside from the reference, there’s an extra space between the period and the closing quotation marks.

Overall, I think this could be a bit more gripping with some stronger phrasings and such in narration. It’s entertaining enough as it is, though, and the ending here looks good, all right, so it should be interesting to see how Swaglord keeps playing this one out, if he does. Not exactly the most original premise, perhaps, but I’m sure you’ll manage to leave your 0xDEADCAFE touch on it. Thanks for posting!

So... I quit.

That would make my squirrel cry. You don’t want that to happen, now do you?

0xDEADCAFE

08-07-2007, 21:14

Oh, indeed. I've seen that term used many a time on Football Outsiders to explain an overachieving team or player. I don't buy it. You've written things - stories, forum posts - that've made me jealous, that've made me think I couldn't match them. I don't buy that those were flukes and this is what we should be expecting from you. Like you say, you've been forcing it a bit and this tale isn't evolving in the most natural way. Hey, it happens. At least you're writing something, exercising those muscles, and it's not as if it's wholly awful. Again, I'm envious of your ability to slog through when you don't feel particularly inspired. When I need to get from point A to point B, I tend to just give up; can't even force out a passable idea. I'm thinking I might have misapplied the concept. I was thinking something more like this: I spend 40 hours a week writing emails, programs and tech docs, so, during those relatively few hours when I try to write in a different way, there is probably a tendency for me to slip into my work habits. Like, when my muse wanders away, it tends to run home to Mama, or something like that.

But. Wow, Snow. I appreciate the kinds words. I really do.

Good, good. The last thing I want is for my comments to kill your story. Too many stories good and bad go unfinished here, especially of the "regular updates" variety. I want this to continue if only as an example that it can be done. Which is not to say that you shouldn't give up on it if you grow to absolutely hate the story, but that's the only reason. Don't quit unless you want to. Keep those updates coming. And now I also think I might have played up the "poor me" shtick a bit too much. But come on, "Precious hateses you!" -- that's kind of funny, isn't it? Look, just to prove that I haven't turned into a quivering cube of I-hate-myself jello, I penned a little ditty just this morning, using that silly phrase as a title. So there it is, in all its muse-activated, work-related-habits-closed-for-business glory, "Precious Hateses You."

(I wonder if I'll ring the old bell curve this time?)

0xDEADCAFE

11-07-2007, 18:34

Rolling, rolling, rolling...

Whoops. Bad wording on my part, I guess...by “should know,” I mean that it’s important to the plot and that it is necessary for the reader to understand it to allow the story to proceed. That makes a lot more sense to me. And yes, it was.

Personally, though, I like to write in game details underneath the obvious, observable layer of action, so that it’s often necessary for a moment of thought to realize what the game analogue is. I’m not saying that’s the best kind of fan fiction, or that it’s even appropriate in all cases, but for what I do, it seems a good compromise to me because there’s always something the non-initiated reader can understand while still keeping in some nods to the source. I think you do very well with that. "Telling" is a concept that I'm thinking about a lot right now. Recent comments made by you, Ted and Snow all seem to have a sort of center of gravity to them. I'm not sure exactly what yet, but "telling" seems to be a big part of it. I've been trying to triangulate that external feedback to my internal feeling when I write and I think some of it is related to "hurrying." There are times when I am delighted with what I'm doing and other times when I am frustrated or bored and just want to get to the next part. Admittedly, the "delightful" parts have their own problems, but one problem at a time. I think all this is helping me to calibrate my "telling" detector, but who can tell, aye? ;-)

This did have a bit of a factual, “telling” sort of feel in the narration at times, “totally removed from the action” in Disco-neck Ted’s words, so that could also use some tightening up, perhaps. I'm hearing it loud and clear.

I found that a bit confusing at first...I guess she just sat on him there, but it wasn’t immediately apparent. If you do want to, I might combine this with the next sentence, so that there’s a better connection between the two. The presentation was a bit of a stretch to begin with, but it might have had a chance if I had done things a little differently. To wit: the idea was that Swag was feeling groggy, seeing things in a bit of a fog and having to pull them together. Unfortunately, I didn't mention that until the next paragraph, and apparently the description I gave was not sufficiently suggestive on its own of what I was thinking. I still like the idea, but detection of poor execution was had by all.

Seeing as I know of dishes such as “beef stew,” “butcher stew” sounded, well... This is an example of where I thought I could use a game reference that might also work for non-gamers. Fact: there is a creature in LC called a "Butcher." I left it ambiguous as to whether it was a stew made from these creatures, or made by them, and I was hoping that, yes, "beef stew" or some other type of stew would be familiar enough to most people to make "butcher stew" not that much of a stretch: it could simply be a stew made by a butcher.

This sounded oddly sloppy to me, particularly “gonna to” (which I thought was intentional,) since most of the rogue’s other dialogue seems rather proper. As for Snowglare’s comment on the Spanish, I don’t mind it too much, though the “hasta la vista” was waaay too reminiscent of a certain U.S. governor (and I haven’t even seen that movie either.) "Gonna to" was a typo. Valid point about that other phrase. I believe it is in fact a very common phrase in Spanish, about as oft used as "See you there," but that fact could well be lost on an English speaking audience. On the other hand, it could help emphasize it as a sneer, too. I guess it was a risky way to go.

I didn’t get the ping-pong feel that Snowglare mentioned, personally, though it is predictable. More of a fault of the situation than the characters, though. I suppose that if you wanted to make sure this wasn’t going to be an issue, though, it might help to sprinkle in just a little more narration focusing on the players here so that it’s not just speech chasing speech (which you do, at a few points.) Yeah. So what exactly is throwaway dialog? I guess if you can take a page of dialog and replace it with "They argued for a bit" without losing anything, that's a good candidate. And, triangulating here, I'm pretty sure I had a preconceived plan of "putting some dialog in." *shakes head*

There should be a comma after “well.” And though this is dialogue coming from a guy under pressure, the repetition of “found/find out” was a bit awkward, as Snowglare said. Agreed.

Overall, I think this could be a bit more gripping with some stronger phrasings and such in narration. It’s entertaining enough as it is, though, and the ending here looks good, all right, so it should be interesting to see how Swaglord keeps playing this one out, if he does. You know, and I hope this doesn't sound too much like a cop-out, but that's kind of what the original point was. One of the things that motivated me to do a weekly serial was the idea that it didn't have to be Shakespeare. If anything, I'm overdoing it even as it is, and maybe that is leading me more toward the dry, get-it-done, style of writing. All I really want to do is write something short, easy to read, hopefully entertaining and ending with a hook: "till next time, same Swag time, same Swag station..." --that sort of thing. Hmmm. Need to get my mind right.

"I'm shaking it boss! I'm shaking it!"

Thanks for your comments.

That would make my squirrel cry. You don’t want that to happen, now do you? I've done things that would make your squirrel crap it's undoubtedly cute little panties. In fact, somewhere around here I've got a poem about just such atrocities. I may have to post that, if only to bolster my chances at winning the forum's "Most Prolific Poster" award. :azn:

RevenantsKnight

18-07-2007, 01:06

Yes, I know I’m behind. I blame the precious. :tongue:

On Part 3: much like the last installment, this felt predictable but entertaining, and the characters are interesting enough. I think it’s generally fine as it is in terms of description, but since this is a bit of a standard, hard-to-change scenario for the moment, it might be worthwhile to throw in a little more detail or imagery to spice things up, if the overall story allows. Anyway, some specific comments:

The rogue was back alright, lured by his false promise of riches, but also back with one knee pressed roughly into his solar plexus.

I’d cut “lured by his false promise of riches,” personally, since it should be clear to the reader why she’s back. That may require a little extra rewording, too, so as to avoid repetition.

Swaglord grimaced from the blow and closed his eyes. He lay quietly for several seconds, panting, while the rogue waited.

This seemed a touch slow to me...I’m not sure if this changes anything important, but I might combine these into one sentence and cut “closed his eyes,” since “grimaced” could encompass some sort of eye-motion as well.

At the waist edge of the knight’s rigid metal chest plate the armor consisted mainly of chain mesh reinforced with thin strips of metal. It was flexible enough to allow free movement yet offered good protection against dagger points and the cutting edges of swords. Not very effective at all, however, against the rogue’s sudden knee-drop.

This felt like unnecessary explanation to me; exactly why the knee-drop hurt isn’t as important as the fact that it did hurt, in my opinion. If you want to get this across to the reader, though, I might try to blend it into the action a little more so that it’s not such a sudden, standalone block.

“Believe me… I do,” he replied, though he was puzzling over what yesterday’s laundry had to do with anything.

I liked these little touches, personally. Kept things engaging, even if the outcome was predictable.

Though she had no idea what debt he was referring to, the threatening tone in his voice was clear enough.

I’m not sure if this is going too much into the rogue’s head, if you know what I mean. It could be fine as it is, but if you’re worried about that, I might try to get her partial understanding across through a facial expression or something.

Just the thought of riches, the mere possibility of it, would be much too much for her to ignore.

Seems a bit unnecessary, given the rest of the paragraph.

She patted him with the flat of her dagger again.

I don’t recall her doing this previously in this chapter, so “again” felt a little odd to me.

“You’d swear to anything right now. “

There’s an extra space after the period here.

“The templar order of who?” She asked.

“She” should be in lowercase.

She narrowed her eyes and continued softly, “You’ve been a busy fellow. How could you and that little pony acquire so much, hmm?” She seemed to be talking more to herself than him, so he didn’t try to answer, which at that moment would have been rather difficult anyway.

Maybe it’s just me, but I might move the talking to herself bit to the first sentence, as opposed to the second, since the second seems to focus more on Swaglord.

“Not so fast,” he said wriggling his mouth out from under her hands.

There should be a comma after “said.” Great image, though.

“The rogue’s pledge.” he croaked, barely able to speak, “Swear!”

The comma after “speak” should be a period.

Finally, after what he hoped was enough snorting and huffing, he agreed.

I might use a word other than “agreed” here, since it sounds a little redundant with his response coming right after it.

“Not so fast, ” she interrupted.

There’s an extra space after the comma here.

She reached down to pick it up, at first with one hand, and then with two when she found she couldn’t budge it.

Er...unless this has an in-game meaning (and I’m betting that it does,) this is quite a stretch. Even if it is a game reference, I’m not sure if it might be worth toning this down a touch for the non-gamers.

Then, by walking backwards in that bent over position, she dragged it over to her horse where, with a much louder grunt, she was able to raise the hilt to a height where she could lash it to the saddle.

I think there should be a comma after “horse.”

He admired her determination and wondered how she would fare with his shield, which was much heavier than the sword.

Although this may be the best way to get the point across, I thought “He admired her determination”

The shield had not moved an inch.

Seems unnecessary to me, since the reader should be able to infer this.

Plucking a dagger from her belt, she made a quick cut through the ropes around Swaglord feet and then just as quickly leapt up upon her tall mount.

That should be “Swaglord’s feet.”

He pulled on the indicated braid and in a few seconds the net lying on the ground in a heap and the pony was back up on its feet, looking much happier but also slightly embarrassed.

That should be “the net was lying on the ground.”

When he turned toward the rogue he noticed that she was holding another net in her hands and looking very serious.

“Looking very serious” didn’t really do it for me, since it seems much drier and detail-less than it could be. I might see if you can’t spice this up a bit, since this sort of interaction seems pretty standard.

“All finished?” She said.

“She” should be in lowercase.

But first, he would have to do something about that mount of hers.

Knowing you, I’m sure Swaglord’s choice of plans is going to be pretty crazy...should be a ball to watch.

Overall, this reads a bit like it’s designed to just get the premise and situation down for the reader so that you can move to something larger, but even then, it’s still more than enough to keep me reading. Since this seems like fairly well-trodden ground in terms of the whole hostage and fake-treasure line, a bit more character work or description might well make this stand a bit better on its own, but as said, it’s definitely not bad. Anyway, I’m looking forward to reading the next chapter (and yes, I know it’s already up. :grin: ) Thanks for posting!

0xDEADCAFE

18-07-2007, 18:36

On Part 3: much like the last installment, this felt predictable but entertaining, and the characters are interesting enough. I think it’s generally fine as it is in terms of description, but since this is a bit of a standard, hard-to-change scenario for the moment, it might be worthwhile to throw in a little more detail or imagery to spice things up, if the overall story allows.I think this comment is spot-on. With regard to adding more detail to spice things up, I've been trying very hard to do exactly that in the new chapters and the rewrites of the old ones. Part 4, for example, was pretty extensively rewritten last weekend with just that bent.

This felt like unnecessary explanation to me; exactly why the knee-drop hurt isn’t as important as the fact that it did hurt, in my opinion. If you want to get this across to the reader, though, I might try to blend it into the action a little more so that it’s not such a sudden, standalone block. I've been wanting to stop now and then to drop in asides like this. No doubt, there's the potential to jar the reader out of the action, but my hope is that it fills in some palatable detail. Working it into the action as you suggest could work, too, but I'd be worried about explanations that sounded like the narrator just wanted to throw in some extra detail. Kind of a Catch-22. This was a fairly slow, quiet moment anyway, so I thought I could slip in some blatant narration while old Swag was still catching his breath.

I liked these little touches, personally. Kept things engaging, even if the outcome was predictable. Thanks. I was hoping they would keep things amusing. (And, BTW, that's your second use of the word predictable in this critique.)

I’m not sure if this is going too much into the rogue’s head, if you know what I mean.I agree, but... I'm not sure how else I could have gotten that point across, and it was semi-important in that it was part of a sub-theme of the chapter, as in, each was feeling mildly perplexed at the other's comments with hopefully humorous effect.

Maybe it’s just me, but I might move the talking to herself bit to the first sentence, as opposed to the second, since the second seems to focus more on Swaglord. Not sure I see it, but maybe.

Er...unless this has an in-game meaning (and I’m betting that it does,) this is quite a stretch. Even if it is a game reference, I’m not sure if it might be worth toning this down a touch for the non-gamers. Well, first of all, I was looking for a way to inject some humor. Second, is it that big of a stretch to think that a slight woman might need two hands to pick up a great sword? Maybe a little. With regard to an in-game reference: my knight is currently using a level 41 sword that weighs something like 430 lbs. And he's using it just fine with one hand. By that standard you might think it would be a stretch that the rogue could lift it at all, if not for the fact that level 41 rogue daggers probably weigh upwards of 300 lbs, too. So, I don't feel this is all that in-gamey. It's a big ol' heavy sword; the girl had a hard time lifting it. I can live with that.

Although this may be the best way to get the point across, I thought “He admired her determination” Oooh, cliffhanger! What comes next? Please, I can't wait to hear how it turns out!

“Looking very serious” didn’t really do it for me, since it seems much drier and detail-less than it could be. I might see if you can’t spice this up a bit, since this sort of interaction seems pretty standard. Again, totally agree. This is exactly the sort of thing I'm trying to root out of the old stuff and avoid in the new stuff. (And, BTW, that's your second use of a form of the word spicy in this critque.)

Knowing you, I’m sure Swaglord’s choice of plans is going to be pretty crazy...should be a ball to watch. If only it were so. I'm afraid I'm going to have to add a third "predictable" at this point; it probably will be, or at least not terribly original or unexpected. You're right about me; letting my imagination run is usually one of my main sources of writing enjoyment, but in this story, things have been pretty, well, predictable. All I can say is that originality is not one of the main goals here. I'm mainly trying to give the game life in fiction. Later, after I've inspired hundreds of other fan-fictioneers to dissect and explore every literal facet of the game, then maybe I'll go a little crazy. (Note: not holding my breath, here...)

Anyway, I’m looking forward to reading the next chapter (and yes, I know it’s already up. :grin: ) Thanks for posting!Burying you makes it all worth while. :grin:

Thanks for your comments!

RevenantsKnight

21-07-2007, 00:28

<insert witty comment here>

He admired her determination and wondered how she would fare with his shield, which was much heavier than the sword.

Although this may be the best way to get the point across, I thought “He admired her determination” felt a bit too much like just summarizing things. If possible, I might try to get Swaglord’s opinion across by implying it through something like an amused smile, if you get what I mean.

As for Part 4: predictable, you say? Well, yeah, it is that...though only partially. As always, you do a good enough job of presenting things, so it’s not too hard to stay involved. Perhaps because of the action and such, I think this piece felt more engaging than its predecessors, too. There’re some rough bits here and there, but they’re far from the rule, I’d say. Some specific comments:

Afternoon changed to evening, evening to a velvety night of phosphorescent stars, and then, after what seemed little more than a twinkle of one of those swollen celestial beacons, it was afternoon again.

“Swollen celestial beacons” sounded a bit odd to me in comparison with “twinkle.” I might change that wording a bit, particularly if you next want to compare the stars to eyes.

As Swaglord crested yet another rise in the rolling road he had little sense of how long he had been running.

Seems like it should be “...he realized that he had little sense...”

Feeling winded, he stopped and bent hands on knees, breathing deeply.

I think there should be a comma after “hands,” unless he bent his hands. Now that wouldn’t be predictable.

His pony stopped next to him, flaring his nostrils and putting his nose to the mild breeze.

Previously, I think you’ve referred to the pony as an “it.”

There was a good view of the surrounding area: sharp hills and tall trees in all directions as far as she could see, a canvas broken only by the road which wound out of sight in both directions.

I’d see if you can’t cut one use of “directions” here.

None that you’ll ever see, he thought.

Not that there’s anything wrong with this sentence, but the general, sudden prevalence of Swaglord’s internal thoughts was noticeable, given that nothing of the sort had appeared before. Mind you, I can totally understand if your plans/styles changed a bit as you went from chapter to chapter, and I’m probably guilty of it myself, but if you do go back over the whole thing, it might be a good idea to drop a little more of this, like a sentence or two here and there, into the previous chapters so it doesn’t look like you just added this for convenience.

“It’s not far now.” He said, breaking for another breath.

The period after “now” should be a comma, and “He” should be in lowercase.

“Well, you know,” he said, “these hills—they all look so similar…“ He noticed his sword, tied by several turns of a leather cord to a cleat in the horse’s saddle, almost within his reach.

The transition between these two sentences was a bit abrupt, I thought. Maybe if you mention a little something about him avoiding her gaze or just generally looking around nonchalantly...

“The hilltops cut the sky like wolf’s teeth, the road an endless tongue,” he intoned, as if reciting from memory.

Nice image.

Swaglord turned his back to her and held his hand over his eyes against the glare of the lowering sun

“Lowering” sounded weird to me, since (at least to me) it implies two objects: the object being lowered and the actor/object doing the lowering. Since there’s only the sun here, I might use something like “sinking.” Also, you’re missing the period at the end of this sentence.

He picked up his shield and slid his arm through the straps. “Come on, boy,” he said to his silent pet. He gave the rogue a final look—just one chance— and then resumed his measured pace down the hard-packed road as it declined slightly toward a small valley.

This felt a bit like a list of actions to me, since there’s a lot of the “He [verb]” sentences here. The last sentence in particular looks like a good place to me for some variation.

The determined knight knew it would not be easy to dismount the rogue and subdue her afterwards, and her patience was running short.

A little too much like a summary of thoughts, perhaps, though I can see why you’re not going directly into Swaglord’s head for this one. I’d see if you can’t get at least part of this as implied through some of his actions, like having him size up the horse (again)...

The slope of the road was constantly changing: down into a hollow between hilltops, then up again on the shoulder of a hill on one side or the other.

The description of the landscape was good, but it seemed to me that there’s an opportunity in this couple of short paragraphs for something a little more vivid. Here or where you mention the valley cutting into the hill, I’d say you could slip in an image if you so wanted.

For a long stretch through its lowest point, the road ran along side a steep hillside.

“Alongside” is one word.

While still at some distance, Swaglord saw the opportunity.

“Swaglord saw the opportunity” seemed a bit unnecessary to me, personally. It might move a little quicker if you try to get this across as an addition to the next sentence as opposed to having a standalone piece.

Entering into that stretch of the road, he took a deep breath and chose.

“That” sounds odd to me, though maybe I’m just being extra weird here. On a different note, having Swaglord simply make a break for it wasn’t quite what I expected, so you get to lose the “predictable” tag here for a bit. :grin: The hilltop was a bit more unsurprising, but as mentioned, I think you presented it well enough.

“Hey!” The rogue shouted, spurring her horse, and raising the rope in her hand.

“The” shouldn’t be capitalized, and why doesn’t the rogue throw her net here? I guess it’s possible that the tree branches could have fouled her shot or something, but because she just sort of fades out after this sentence until they get to the top of the hill, it feels like you forgot her a bit.

Reaching to a branch above him with his shield arm he braced himself against the tree and the ground and heaved his animal forward as far as he could.

There should be a comma after “arm.” Also, I’d cut “against the tree and the ground,” since it seems like enough to say that he’s holding on to the tree and bracing himself.

Swaglord climbed another two branches and then leapt to the hilltop along side the pony, slapping it on the back and leading it toward a thicket of bushes several yards from the edge, where he gave his pet’s mane a good rub.

“Alongside” is one word. Also, maybe it’s just me, but it seems odd that the rogue wouldn’t spot them immediately if she ends up, say, ten feet away. That’s like the distance between two sides of a reasonable room. Personally, I wouldn’t even specify the distance, really.

Looking back toward the road, he saw the rogue leaping from the same pine tree he had used, landing lightly on the hilltop.

A bit of a nitpick, but since you mention that there’s a back path on the other side of the hill, I might use “edge” instead of “road,” so there’s no possibility of confusion here.

Swaglord, crouched down immediately, again putting his arm over his pony’s shoulders, whispering “shh…” into its ear.

The comma after “Swaglord” is unnecessary.

Swaglord smiled and waved him on, stifling another “Good boy!” and then moving very quietly in the opposite direction using the brush as cover.

There should be a comma after “direction,” and I think “moving” should be “moved.”

“Still got your shield, I see,” she said, “I don’t suppose you found a sword?”

I think the comma after “said” should be a period.

She smiled, locking her crossbow and then slipping it into a holster strapped to her back. She took the coil of rope from her shoulder, already tied to a folded net hanging from her belt “Well, I’ve still got this,” she said, waving the net slowly in front of her, as if preparing for a toss.

The sentence structure here made this part sound a bit repetitive, so I’d try to shuffle things around a little, or maybe combine the first two sentences if that’s easier. Also, there should be a period after “belt.”

Swaglord called to her, letting his shield slide to his side. “Come, thief, we can work this out, can’t we?”

“Called to her” sounds a little unnecessary in this particular case, given that it summarizes an action that the dialogue right afterwards describes. You could, though, rearrange this to be all one sentence, as something like “Letting his shield slide to his side, Swaglord called to her, ‘Come, thief...’”

“I wonder…” she said searching the hill with her eyes, “Where is that little friend of—”

There should be a comma after “said,” and “Where” shouldn’t be capitalized if you want this to be one sentence, I don’t think.

The rogue whirled around to face the commotion and, seeing the speeding pony, made a sudden, acrobatic jump backwards and to the side, easily avoiding the animal’s charge.

“Hai,” she yelled, landing slightly off balance on one foot, a few steps closer to and her back turned towards Swaglord, who had also charged her the moment her head was turned toward the pony.

This seemed to go a bit slowly for an action scene, so I might see if you can tighten this up some...maybe the specifics of the rogue’s dodge could be a touch shorter.

A Lord’s Kite, as it was called in the oldest cities of Iris, could be a formidable weapon, though often used to stun rather than injure an opponent.

I thought the world was called “Eres.” Is “Iris” another place in the game?

While this tactic rarely caused much harm in itself, woe be to any duelist who received such a blow, as it rendered them nearly helpless for far longer than anyone who valued their life should allow.

That should be “woe to any duelist...”

The impact lifted her completely off the ground and threw her a full body length away, where she landed not just stunned, but completely out-cold.

“Out cold” isn’t usually hyphenated, I don’t think.

“Step two,” said Swaglord smiling, strolling over to his pony to give it’s mane a well-deserved scratching.

There should be a comma after “Swaglord.”

“All business, as usual—can’t we enjoy the moment for once?” He said, to which the pony only snorted.

“He” shouldn’t be capitalized.

The knight frowned, wondering where she might have hidden the small stone, stroking his chin with one hand.

I’d switch the order of the second and third clauses here to put a little more focus on his thoughts, but that’s just me.

Overall, I thought this was all right, and though it could use some polishing to avoid list-like bits or other occasional issues, it kept me reading pretty easily and I didn’t see much that’s really “wrong” with it. Thanks for posting!

0xDEADCAFE

22-07-2007, 22:15

“Swollen celestial beacons” sounded a bit odd to me in comparison with “twinkle.” I might change that wording a bit, particularly if you next want to compare the stars to eyes. Funny, I thought I needed to fatten them up before comparing them to eyes, since stars are usually no more than pinpricks. Phosphorescent + swollen = evil magic eye, doesn't it? I can check my Sword and Sorcery Almanac again, but I'm pretty sure it does...

You may have a point about "twinkle" though.

Seems like it should be “...he realized that he had little sense...” Maybe.

I think there should be a comma after “hands,” unless he bent his hands. Now that wouldn’t be predictable.Or maybe "hands-on-knees" ? I guess its a bit of a stretch either way. I was trying to avoid wordiness: "bent over and put his hands on his knees" but maybe that wouldn't be too bad.

Previously, I think you’ve referred to the pony as an “it.”Yep. I keep slipping into masculine pronouns for the pony, but I want to keep it neutral.

I’d see if you can’t cut one use of “directions” here. For sure.

Not that there’s anything wrong with this sentence, but the general, sudden prevalence of Swaglord’s internal thoughts was noticeable, given that nothing of the sort had appeared before. It's a deliberate change of style. Basically, It's a response to all the criticisms that I lumped under the category of "lazy telling." A number of Swaglord's thoughts are basically re-workings of things that the narrator had said in the first draft. It felt a little gimmicky to me at first, but as you said above, "I think this piece felt more engaging than its predecessors." I do too. One could argue that pulling certain thoughts out of a character's head is just as hokey as having the narrator tell you what they are thinking, but the feel of it is different; it doesn't seem to break the reader out of the action as much. I'd love to hear people's thoughts on that. (No pun intended.)

The transition between these two sentences was a bit abrupt, I thought. Maybe if you mention a little something about him avoiding her gaze or just generally looking around nonchalantly... I think you are right, but I did want it to feel like it was something sort of jumped out at him. Not that this particular wording does that.

Nice image. TYVM! :grin: I can't tell you how many times I redid that. (In case you are wondering, this was by far the shortest version. "In brevity there is genius," my high school guidance counselor used to say.)

“Lowering” sounded weird to me, since (at least to me) it implies two objects: the object being lowered and the actor/object doing the lowering. Since there’s only the sun here, I might use something like “sinking.” Also, you’re missing the period at the end of this sentence. I'm going to claim poetic license here. ("Lowering" just sounds right to me.) Ditto for the missing period, BTW. :tongue:

A little too much like a summary of thoughts, perhaps, though I can see why you’re not going directly into Swaglord’s head for this one. I’d see if you can’t get at least part of this as implied through some of his actions, like having him size up the horse (again)... This is a good example of the type of thing that I was trying to minimize in this rewrite. I wasn't quite up to the challenge in this case, but you are right.

“Swaglord saw the opportunity” seemed a bit unnecessary to me, personally. It might move a little quicker if you try to get this across as an addition to the next sentence as opposed to having a standalone piece. Another bit of clumsy telling. How about, "In his mind he saw a flashing neon sign sprout up next to one pine in particular, emblazoned with the immortal words, 'Escape Here!'" No, probably not...

“That” sounds odd to me, though maybe I’m just being extra weird here. On a different note, having Swaglord simply make a break for it wasn’t quite what I expected, so you get to lose the “predictable” tag here for a bit. :grin: The hilltop was a bit more unsurprising, but as mentioned, I think you presented it well enough."That" was a compromise, considering everything else I thought of was either wordy or redundant or both.

“The” shouldn’t be capitalized, and why doesn’t the rogue throw her net here? I guess it’s possible that the tree branches could have fouled her shot or something, but because she just sort of fades out after this sentence until they get to the top of the hill, it feels like you forgot her a bit. I would explain this as taking her by surprise. She's probably thinking that over just about any type of terrain her horse can easily outpace him. That's why I was trying to emphasize that this was an opportunity for him. She didn't realize what he was up to, and the very short distance between the middle of the road and the embankment meant they were into the trees before she had a chance to react.

“Alongside” is one word. Also, maybe it’s just me, but it seems odd that the rogue wouldn’t spot them immediately if she ends up, say, ten feet away. That’s like the distance between two sides of a reasonable room. Personally, I wouldn’t even specify the distance, really.First off, "several yards" could be quite a bit more than 10 feet. I imagined it to be more like 20-30. Also there were bushes, and Swag was quick to hide behind some as soon as he heard her coming up. Maybe it needs to be clearer.

This seemed to go a bit slowly for an action scene, so I might see if you can tighten this up some...maybe the specifics of the rogue’s dodge could be a touch shorter.Agreed. I think I was trying to tighten things up by combining things, but it's a bit of a muddle, isn't it?

I thought the world was called “Eres.” Is “Iris” another place in the game? I'm really not sure. They definitely refer to "Eres" in some places, and "Iris" in others. It might be a world versus nation sort of thing, but there is fair amount of inconsistent spelling in the game. For example, "Prokion" temple is spelled "Procyon" on the transition graphic and there are numerous other example like that. I suppose Iris and Eres could be the same place, but I had the impression they were distinct. I should verify it one way or the other.

I’d switch the order of the second and third clauses here to put a little more focus on his thoughts, but that’s just me.I think that's a very good suggestion.

Thanks for you comments.

RevenantsKnight

25-07-2007, 02:54

One bit to touch on before I get rolling...

It's a deliberate change of style. Basically, It's a response to all the criticisms that I lumped under the category of "lazy telling."... I'd love to hear people's thoughts on that. (No pun intended.)

Well, considering my past stuff, I can hardly be called unbiased, but I really like this technique because, as you said, it does seem to disrupt the flow of the story less, and it also means I can mix a character’s voice and perspective into what needs to be said. The only big criticism I can see of this particular stylistic shift is that if you use it for just one or two chapters, it may read a bit oddly as part of the whole story. Again, my opinion is biased to heck, though.

On Part 5: well, I thought this was much better about the whole telling thing than before, and it was definitely an engaging read...plus the ending gets to take the “predictable” label and give it a good smack. :grin: The imagery and description seemed much more involved here than before, too, so that was a nice touch. Honestly, I think this cut out a lot of the problems that popped up in earlier chapters, and while there’s a little bit of what seems like oversummarizing, I didn’t notice it at all on a first read. Some specific comments:

It was a phrase that Swaglord had heard his father say many times, usually accompanied by the sound of a fist hitting a table or an iron soled boot stomping the floor, raising a low cloud of dust and drawing muttered complaints from the walls and rafters.

As far as asides go, I liked this one quite a bit, since it’s not something that’d be easily observable and it says a little something about Swaglord’s past...plus, it’s got some nice images. To pick some nits, though, I’d think “iron soled” should be one hyphenated word (and rather uncomfortable, too. Are you sure boots come with iron soles, since that might prevent them from bending properly?)

Saying it now, it did not occur to him to wonder at his own appearance (in spite of the many comparisons voiced in his youth regarding his likeness to his father) and, there being no tables or floorboard nearby, he had to be satisfied with slamming one fist into the other.

The material here’s good, but it felt a bit lengthy to me, perhaps also due to the formal-ish tone. If you can trim away a few words, that might help (or not.)

“I suppose you could do better!” he said, eyes popping, his forehead again swimming in bunches of tight skin.

I like the image at the end here, but “eyes popping” sounded awkward to me. Not sure exactly why, though.

At once her head jerked to one side and an eyelids twitched.

That should be “an eyelid.”

He straightened back up and waited for her to come to.

I might cut this entirely, since this paragraph is more focused on the rogue and this felt like an interruption. If you keep it, I’d at least change “he” to “Swaglord,” since you are switching sentence subjects.

When her eyes opened, it seemed to take her a moment to realize the situation.

This seems a bit unnecessary, since having her look around a bit in the next sentence should get this idea across.

Swaglord’s watched her eyes loll this way and that, finally finding him and then fixing on his face.

A minor typo: that should be “Swaglord.”

She made a quick reach for something down by her calf, but gave it up as Swaglord applied even more pressure to her throat.

“Applied even more pressure” sounded a bit dry to me...it certainly gets the idea across, but I still might try to find a different wording here, unless you meant to sort of wave away Swaglord’s action as more benign than it actually was.

She continued to fight, now kicking her feet and managing to land a soft blow with her knee against his chest armor.

I might change “fight,” since you use “fighter” just before, but that might just be me.

She kept struggling and he kept the pressure on—this time she wasn’t getting a drop of air.

“Drop” seems wrong when applied to air...“gasp” or something like that, maybe?

A faint shade of blue seemed to be leaking into her cheeks and in her watery eyes, the burning flicker of a wildfire panic.

The description here is good, though that last bit felt a little awkward to me.

Swaglord blanched, suddenly realizing how long it had been since she had had a breath.

There’s some nice character detail in this section in general, I’d say. I might, though, see if you can’t find a different wording for the end here that avoids “had had,” such as maybe “since she had last breathed” or something like that.

More spittle emerged and mixed with the dirt, caking one side of her cheek in a dry mud.

I’d drop “in a dry mud,” because that seems a bit like an oxymoron, as well as not strictly necessary.

“Look,” he said gently, “I’m sorry about this.”

“Gently” suggests to me more control and composure than Swaglord’s later dialogue indicates, so I might either replace it or neaten up the speech a bit.

Swaglord stowed the bauble inside his gauntlet as before, avoiding her glance.

Maybe it’s just me, but “bauble” makes the heaven stone sound more trivial than I think you want it to be, if it’s the object at the center of all this for now.

“What am I going to do with you?” he said meeting her gaze, and then continuing, “You could attack me again at any time, couldn’t you?”

There should be a comma after “said.”

“And we can’t have that, can we boy?” he added, glancing to his pony, which, he only then realized, was no longer standing there.

There should be a comma after “we.”

In a blink the pony was out of sight, vanished beneath the curve of the hill, leaving its master's mouth agape, his eyes bulging, and with a brow that did the old man justice.

I might replace “its master’s” with just “Swaglord’s” in this case, because with all the pronouns flying around the middle of the sentence, it seems like it could be a little confusing.

Anyway, I thought this was pretty good, as mentioned before. Between the smoother narration, description and character details, there was a lot to keep me interested here, and I’m rather curious to know how this’ll continue to play out. Thanks for posting!

0xDEADCAFE

29-07-2007, 16:10

Well, considering my past stuff, I can hardly be called unbiased, but I really like this technique because, as you said, it does seem to disrupt the flow of the story less, and it also means I can mix a character’s voice and perspective into what needs to be said. Truth is, I took this idea from your work. Here's something interesting: I never liked your use of thought fragments all that much, yet I tend to like your action scenes. So far, the same goes for my own use of them here: I don't love them, they feel awkward and hokey, but they seem to work. I wish I knew what that meant.

The only big criticism I can see of this particular stylistic shift is that if you use it for just one or two chapters, it may read a bit oddly as part of the whole story. Again, my opinion is biased to heck, though. Agreed. I think I will keep the technique for now, and if I ever wanted to "do" anything with the story, the previous chapters would have to be re-styled a bit.

On Part 5: well, I thought this was much better about the whole telling thing than before, and it was definitely an engaging read...plus the ending gets to take the “predictable” label and give it a good smack. :grin: The imagery and description seemed much more involved here than before, too, so that was a nice touch. Honestly, I think this cut out a lot of the problems that popped up in earlier chapters, and while there’s a little bit of what seems like oversummarizing, I didn’t notice it at all on a first read. Coolsville. I am so tempted to stop right here and avoid the dreaded Some specific comments:

As far as asides go, I liked this one quite a bit, since it’s not something that’d be easily observable and it says a little something about Swaglord’s past...plus, it’s got some nice images. To pick some nits, though, I’d think “iron soled” should be one hyphenated word (and rather uncomfortable, too. Are you sure boots come with iron soles, since that might prevent them from bending properly?)Thanks. About the iron soles: wouldn't it be interesting if they did exist? Wait a second! They obviously do exist in this world, the author just said so. Hmm... I wonder what they're for, and who makes them, and why his father wore them?

I might cut this entirely, since this paragraph is more focused on the rogue and this felt like an interruption. If you keep it, I’d at least change “he” to “Swaglord,” since you are switching sentence subjects. Good point. It doesn't really add anything.

This seems a bit unnecessary, since having her look around a bit in the next sentence should get this idea across. Yup, same kind of thing as the previous comment. I seem to get hung up on the expression of pauses. I want to indicate that a few seconds passed here, that it took a while to do this, or there was a silence of this long here. It's something I find myself struggling with.

“Applied even more pressure” sounded a bit dry to me...it certainly gets the idea across, but I still might try to find a different wording here, unless you meant to sort of wave away Swaglord’s action as more benign than it actually was. It's dry. Interesting question about making his action seem benign. I didn't realize at first how beastly Swaglord was being in this scene. First draft is almost light-hearted and all the choking is sort of matter-of-fact. On the second draft it suddenly struck me how violent and despicable this was, which is what led to me try to excuse it--his pique of temper just before he begins--and forgive him a bit--his contrition towards the end. I think it makes it more interesting and helped me fill out his character some more.

“Drop” seems wrong when applied to air...“gasp” or something like that, maybe? Is that what you'd call a mixed metaphor? I didn't seem right to me, either, but somehow slipped through the "change" filter.

The description here is good, though that last bit felt a little awkward to me. Ha! You don't think "watery" eyes should be "burning" with anything, I suppose. Hmm... you're probably right. At very least I guess I should limit the number of mixed metaphors I use.

I’d drop “in a dry mud,” because that seems a bit like an oxymoron, as well as not strictly necessary. I could have gone with "dirt," I suppose, although I think I use dirt a lot. I was trying to give the impression of the spittle and blood mixing with the dirt. As far as whether it was necessary or not, I was trying to draw an ugly picture. Messing up her face was a way of adding humiliation to the violence.

“Gently” suggests to me more control and composure than Swaglord’s later dialogue indicates, so I might either replace it or neaten up the speech a bit. To me, it's an important character detail. He was shocked by his own actions and his emotions turned on a dime. Maybe it's too obscure for a reader to pick up on, but it happens again when she sneers at him through her sarcastic use of the word "hero."

Maybe it’s just me, but “bauble” makes the heaven stone sound more trivial than I think you want it to be, if it’s the object at the center of all this for now.You're right. I forgot the precise meaning of that word. BTW, here's an interesting word related to bauble: bibelot (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bibelot)

Thanks, Rev; good stuff as always. I should have the next part up later today.

RevenantsKnight

02-08-2007, 08:05

On Part 6: well, I figured Swaglord and the rogue would end up on the same side eventually, though I wasn’t expecting it to happen right now...guess you decided just to cut to the chase. For some reason, though, I found most of the action a bit hard to follow, and found myself rereading through a few parts just to make sure I didn’t miss anything; I suspect that you may have tried to pack a little too much detail into the scene and ended up with some parts getting garbled. The idea here seems just fine, but somehow, the execution here caught me up. Anyway, here’re some comments:

He felt it like a knot in the pit of his stomach: what he had to do, especially coming after what he had just done.

The meaning’s clear enough to me, but the transition from before to after the colon feels odd. Maybe you could change the wording here, but other than that, I’ve no suggestions.

“Teacup!” he yelled,“Teacup, boy, come back!”

It’s all just part of making a complicated character, right? :grin: That aside, you’re missing a space after the first comma here.

Her throat was hoarse, her mouth bloodied and swollen, but watching the knight shouting in vain for his pony, long gone over the dusty hilltop, she couldn’t stop a smirk from crawling up one side of her face.

This is good, although I’m not sure if “Her throat was hoarse” works in this particular sentence, since it’s not observable in the same way that everything else here is. It seems like it might work better as an addition/description to when she asks Swaglord.

“You named your horse teacup?”

“Teacup” should be capitalized, I’d imagine. Also, since you’ve been bringing up the horse/pony distinction before, you might want to be precise here unless there’s a reason why you chose “horse.”

“Yes,” he said quickly “Long story.”

There should be a period after “quickly.”

His eyes darted about his feet and finally stopped at the rogue’s shoulder.

I’m not sure if this adds much to the story, since the transition to the next sentence doesn’t seem too bad without this sentence. Could just be me, though.

He bent down quickly, grabbing her by the hips and flipping her over roughly on her stomach.”

There’s an extra set of quotation marks here.

Swaglord leaned more of his weight onto his knee, pinning her to the ground.

“Leaned more of his weight onto his knee” sounds weird to me...either “put more weight...” or “leaned harder on his knee” and similar versions sound okay, though. Definitely not a big deal, though.

“You can’t… Knight! I swear I’ll get you for this! Knight!

Looks like there’s a good home for those previous errant quotation marks at the end here.

Before long he was at the bottom of the hill where he saw a trail of small hoof prints emerge out of the grassy hillside onto the hard packed earthen trail.

I’d cut “of the hill” (and put a comma after “bottom”) so as to not repeat “hill” quite so much. Similarly, I might try to trim off one use of “trail” (maybe replace the first one with “line” or something,) and “hard packed” should be one hyphenated word, I think.

Teacup!

Even though I now know the pony’s name, I keep thinking of it as “the pony” and up to this point, Swaglord hasn’t been using its name at all. Given that, I might cut back on the number of times you use “Teacup” in this chapter, because the departure from the previous installments is kind of jarring.

The hoof prints curved leftward around the hill toward the road.

I think there should be a comma after “hill.”

As he followed them the breeze began to murmur something like a horse’s screaming; it seemed to come from around the bend of the next hill.

“Murmur something like a horse’s screaming” sounded awkward to me, as the volume difference between a murmur and a scream makes the comparison seem illogical. As a side note, I’m not particularly familiar with the behavior or vocal capabilities of horses, but “screaming” sounded really odd to me here, since they don’t strike me as particularly loud. At any rate, you use this quite a bit over the course of the chapter, and might want to get a bit more specific at times, since while I can imagine a person screaming, the idea of a horse (or really most animals) screaming is a bit of a mental blank for me.

A short distance away, near the split trunk of a tall tree, was the horse, kicking up a cloud of dirt and continuing to scream as it had been since he first heard it.

I might tighten up “continuing to scream...,” since it makes the sentence drag a bit.

All three seemed intent on something else, something which he could not quite make out. The three of them seemed to be watching something low to the ground.

It seems that you could get this all across pretty well in just one sentence as opposed to two.

He slowed his pace as he approached the three giants, despite the fact that the trail of hoof prints was leading him straight toward them, coming to stop while still at a safe distance.

I’d switch the order of the second and third clauses here, since a first read suggested that the hoof prints were what was coming to a stop.

Teacup, where are you boy?

There should be a comma after “you.”

Is that you up there?

Not sure if this was supposed to be a surprise to the reader or not, but it realized that it was likely before this point.

His empty weapon hand moved slowly up to his face, scratching his chin roughly, first one side then the other--

There should be a comma after “side,” I think.

With that he started running again, straight over the trail of hoof prints, and soon he saw that it was, in fact, his pony that was the source of the commotion between the lumbering giants. Teacup was racing between them, dodging this way and that as they swung their huge clubs at it, scampering safely away and then turning around and diving right back in.

It seems to me like the first sentence’s ending drags a bit, so I might try to either trim it down or combine these two into one. The second sentence, too, might be a little bulky.

The pony was much too quick for the clumsy Highlanders, but neither was it hurting them in any way.

Previously in this chapter, forms “Highlanders” weren’t capitalized. Not sure which one you want, though.

On a hunch, Swaglord glanced over at the horse; it was the same one the rogue had been riding.

This felt deliberately obtuse. I got the impression earlier that this was a relatively lightly traveled area, what with the giants and the fact that no one ran into them yet, so why would the horse be any other than the rogue’s?

Turning his head to the fore he realized he was almost on top of the one of the highlanders.

There’s an extra “the” in this sentence before “one,” and there should be a comma after “fore.” Also, it feels a little odd for you to say “one of the highlanders” here and then specifically mention that giant again with “closest giant” in the next sentence. I might remove or reword one of those phrasings, personally.

At full speed he barreled right into the closest giant, shield forward, shoulder lowered and braced behind it.

I think you could trim down the part after “giant” a little, because otherwise this bit of action gets slowed down noticeably.

Swaglord kicked its club away and then lunged at the next closest one, executing a shield strike as best as he could and following that with leaning all his weight against the dazed creature, pushing it off-balance and driving it into the remaining giant, which was still focused on striking at the pony.

It seems like this could be a bit quicker, with “closest” and “which was still focused...” seeming not to add much to the overall description. In addition, the clause beginning with “and following that” does add some detail, but it’s a bit cumbersome and doesn’t feel necessary, as the result’s the same whether the shield hit itself unbalanced the giant or Swaglord needed to give it more of a push.

His own great sword, lashed to the animal’s saddle by the rogue before they set out, had somehow become caught in the “V” of the tree’s double trunk and was now completely embedded in the hard wood, no doubt due to the horse’s powerful efforts to free itself.

I think you could drop “by the rogue before they [had] set out,” since the reader should be able to remember that, or at least know that it wasn’t Swaglord’s doing and so was probably hers. Also, this is probably highly subjective, but the “V” bit tripped me up pretty hard, because my first reaction to quotation marks was speech. Maybe it’s just me, though.

As he struggled to gain a grip of the leather cord, he noticed the other result of the horse’s attempts to escape. The end of the hilt had dug through the saddle and was sticking through the leather against the animal’s hide.

This seems like it should be one sentence to me, perhaps after cutting down on the “he noticed” part, which seems a bit unnecessary to me. Also, I think the first part should read “gain a grip on the leather cord.”

Though he couldn’t see it, Swaglord well knew the angular design of the pommel and could imagine what it would do to the horse’s flesh.

I think that should be “knew well.”

Two of the giants seemed willing to resume the chase again, but the third proved a bit cleverer, kicking its leg out while still on the ground, tripping the pony, and sending it sprawling to the ground.

I’d cut one use of “ground” here (probably the second one.)

Swaglord rushed them, this time angling his way between their broad chests to try to disrupt both their swings at once.

I’m not quite sure what you meant by “angling his way between their broad chests.” My best guess is that he’s running between them to give them another target or something, but I honestly can’t tell.

He managed to do it, giving Teacup time to get up scamper away, but leaving him alone with no weapon to face the entire group, all three now upright and very angry.

I’d avoid just saying “He managed to do it” and go into a little more detail here, even if it means another sentence of action; while there are some earlier parts that could use a little more brevity, this might be too much of a summary.

In a few steps he was back by the horse, which seemed to have gone quite still. A trio of blows sent him reeling.

The transition here threw me when I first read it. I’m not quite sure what to suggest, but I don’t think those hits should be such a surprise to the reader.

He fell literally with his back against his sword, which he threw his arm over in order to keep from falling. He held his shield up and grabbed onto the saddle for support.

This felt repetitive to me, and I know it’s only two sentences in a row with similar structures, but somehow, this particular pairing stood out as reading like a list. Maybe I’m just out of it, though.

Looking down he saw the horse’s blood dripping from its belly, making a little pool in the dirt, and the knot in his stomach returned.

There should be a comma after “down.”

“I won’t abandon you,” he whispered, and then gained his balance, lowered his shoulder and pressed forward into the gang of highlanders.

I’m not really sure what “pressed forward” was supposed to describe, as he could have been either just advancing or more of his shield slams. While the exact choice here doesn’t seem to matter much, the fact that the description doesn’t bring a solid image to mind and you just move past it very quickly with the next sentence broke up the story’s grip, as it were.

He ducked under the sword this time and came up near the horse’s front shoulder, noticing his pony nose-to-nose with the horse.

This really messed with me the first time around, because the way I was seeing it in my mind, the idea of Swaglord going from against the horse to behind the sword and near the horse’s front was impossible. I’m still not sure what exactly is going on here.

Lifting his shield over the sword and bringing it down on the other side, he gripped the hilt with his free hand and braced the shield as best he could against the blade, using the saddle for support and pressing his shoulder against the shield.

I’m torn on whether or not the volume of description here is a good thing...this isn’t exactly a standard sort of maneuver, so the detail was helpful to me, but I lost the sentence’s focus by the end. Maybe trimming off the bit at the end would help.

The moment closed on him like the jaws of a wolf, crushing him between the bloodthirsty giants and the rogue’s twin hands of deadly vengeance.

I hate to say it, since this seems like something on which you might have spent a good bit of time and effort, but I think I missed the point here. Granted, I’m pretty sure I know what you mean now, from the context, but when I first read it, I wasn’t sure what to make of it. I hope that’s just me being thick. :tongue:

A drop of blood fell from the horse’s belly onto the small growing stain on the ground, a crimson smear on the bed of the earth. Swaglord’s tear fell with it.

I’d set this off as a separate paragraph, unless you feel like that’s an overemphasis, because otherwise it doesn’t seem to transition well from the preceding sentence to me.

Generally speaking, I think the idea and such here is good. The specifics could use some polishing, though (which shouldn’t be too difficult.) That said, it was enough to keep me reading, and I’m interested in seeing how you handle what’s next. Thanks for posting!

0xDEADCAFE

04-08-2007, 04:54

For some reason, though, I found most of the action a bit hard to follow, and found myself rereading through a few parts just to make sure I didn’t miss anything; I suspect that you may have tried to pack a little too much detail into the scene and ended up with some parts getting garbled. FWIW, I had a devil of a time writing much of this. I think it actually got a little better in this, the second draft, but you seem to have picked up on the difficulty I had.

It’s all just part of making a complicated character, right? :grin: That aside, you’re missing a space after the first comma here.Teacup is definitely a pony of a different color. I have a lot of ideas for him. Now all I have to do is figure out which ones to use and not over-complicate things.

Even though I now know the pony’s name, I keep thinking of it as “the pony” and up to this point, Swaglord hasn’t been using its name at all. Given that, I might cut back on the number of times you use “Teacup” in this chapter, because the departure from the previous installments is kind of jarring. Not sure what to think about this. I guess I'm not as big a stickler for consistency as some, but it seems to me that once you know the pony's name is Teacup, it becomes a more natural way to refer to it. Granted, it does leave open the question of why Swaglord didn't use the pony's name up to that point. What, there's not supposed to be any plot holes at all?

“Murmur something like a horse’s screaming” sounded awkward to me, as the volume difference between a murmur and a scream makes the comparison seem illogical.I absolutely respect your right to react that way, but if you think about it, volume is also dependent on distance. I was trying to give the impression of a sound being carried on the wind from some distance away. If someone is screaming their head off a blocks away, it might sound rather quiet to you. That doesn't mean you would describe it as whispering. After all, a scream is a scream, not matter how far. (With apologies to Dr. Suess.)

As a side note, I’m not particularly familiar with the behavior or vocal capabilities of horses, but “screaming” sounded really odd to me here, since they don’t strike me as particularly loud. Me neither, but I'm pretty sure they can be loud when they want to be. FWIW, I did try to think of substitutes for scream but came up blank. As an aside, you complained quite a bit about my use of the word whinny in previous chapter. Why don't you just admit it, you anti-equite, you believe horses and ponies should speak when spoken to. And in this day and age...

Not sure if this was supposed to be a surprise to the reader or not, but it realized that it was likely before this point.Yeah, I think this is getting at the basic difficulty I had in writing this. The most straightforward way to describe all of this would be to simply say that it was 3 giants with the rogue's horse and Swaglord's pony. What I tried to do was follow Swaglord's train of thought as he approached the scene, portray him discovering the whole truth piece by piece and reacting to it in stages. Maybe it would be better to work out a simpler story telling method.

This felt deliberately obtuse. I got the impression earlier that this was a relatively lightly traveled area, what with the giants and the fact that no one ran into them yet, so why would the horse be any other than the rogue’s?Why indeed. Maybe it's not so lightly traveled.

Also, this is probably highly subjective, but the “V” bit tripped me up pretty hard, because my first reaction to quotation marks was speech. Maybe it’s just me, though.Do you have a suggestion? I considered using vee as if it were a word (without the quotes.) Would it have been better to use V without the quotes?

I’m not quite sure what you meant by “angling his way between their broad chests.” My best guess is that he’s running between them to give them another target or something, but I honestly can’t tell.I guess I would say use your imagination. I'm sure I could give a more precise description, but who cares exactly what he did. He tried his best to disrupt both of them at once and it involved charging at an angle between them

I’m not really sure what “pressed forward” was supposed to describe, as he could have been either just advancing or more of his shield slams. Pushing.

This really messed with me the first time around, because the way I was seeing it in my mind, the idea of Swaglord going from against the horse to behind the sword and near the horse’s front was impossible. I’m still not sure what exactly is going on here. The horse is stuck to the tree by virtue of the blade being embedded in the tree's trunk and the hilt being lashed to the horse's saddle. You couldn't walk between the horse and the tree from the horse's rump to it's head or vice versa without passing under or climbing over the sword. The highlanders are to the rear of the horse and Swaglord is retreating from them back toward the horse, and passing the horse on its tree side. Therefore. at some point, the blade becomes an obstacle to his passage.

I hate to say it, since this seems like something on which you might have spent a good bit of time and effort, but I think I missed the point here.I actually didn't. It got dropped into the second draft on a whim. Murderous highlanders on one side, the perhaps vengeful rogue on the other, death approaching from both sides like a wolf's jaws closing on him. Not a brilliant piece of writing, I know, but there you have it.

Thanks for your comments. They confirm again my theory that a difficult write makes for a difficult read. FWIW, the next part wrote much easier.

Sozzles

10-08-2007, 14:10

I just read your story on my lunchbreak at work today and I have to say, I really enjoyed it. I usually hate short stories as they don't give enough insight to the charachter or whatever, but I feel not only was it entertaining, it provided charachters (yes, maybe he had a sucky name) with depth and more than a few stories to tell, which you don't normally get in stories like this.

Don't worry about the ''lols you made a typoz!!11'' comments - past all that its a great story and you have a nice style.

Im really looking forward to the next parts.

Joanna

0xDEADCAFE

11-08-2007, 16:44

0xDEADCAFE

22-09-2007, 17:28

I'm bumping this just to keep it from falling too far away from the story thread.

While I'm here, a word of explanation about the "End of Episode One" remark at the end of Part IX: The next part follows pretty much immediately in time, as have all the previous parts, but I decided to break it into episodes to move away from the notion of it being an interminable series of installments and also to try to mark the beginning of a new story arc. I think this will help me bring the series eventually to a close, which is something I hadn't thought too much about prior to starting.

yetidiah

23-10-2007, 09:04

good read so far, any idea of when the continuation will happen?

0xDEADCAFE

25-10-2007, 05:14

good read so far, any idea of when the continuation will happen? Thanks. I'm glad you're enjoying it. I've been trying to post weekly. This week I got a little set back, but there's a new chapter up now. Hope you like it, and thanks again for the kind words.

RevenantsKnight

16-12-2007, 19:44

Good to see more from you, 0xDEADCAFE.

On Part 7: In general, I thought this installment was pretty good, and though the ending was, dare I say, “predictable,” the trip to it was entertaining. :grin: It did have some parts that seemed to drag a little due to wordiness, but I didn’t think it was as much of an issue as it may have been before. Anyway...

The cold, dry air stung Swaglord’s eyes as they followed the downward path of the rogue’s daggers, the sharpened edges of the elegantly curving blades glinting in the sun, ropes of fire against a cloudless sky.

The opening paragraph here seemed a bit slow for an opening to me; while the imagery isn’t bad or anything, it doesn’t cover too much in the space it takes and a fair bit of this is already clear from the ending of the last chapter. Though it’s not a major issue, I might cut this or add it into the end of the previous part, since that seems like it might be a better place to draw things out than here.

They descended on him like twin talons of some great reaping bird floating out of the heavens on an all but timeless trajectory: ever closer, ever nearer, but in that eternally stretched moment, all but frozen in place.

Quite the image, I must say. It does seem a bit heavy on words, though, so I might try to trim it down a touch, perhaps dropping some of the qualifying statements like “all but,” so it doesn’t feel like you’re piling on quite as much. Also, “reaping bird” sounded odd to me, since the literal image doesn’t really work.

He felt as if his life were perched upon a knife’s edge between this world and oblivion.

I like it. :grin: “This world” does sound a little off, though, since it feels like it’s referencing the audience’s world (which in any case is not the world the narrator appears to mean.)

Closer—So Slowly—Nearer—Almost time now. . .

This is probably a subjective thing, but I didn’t like this bit because it stretches the moment out too much without adding anything. Also, the capitalization seemed very odd to me, which I suppose made it a bit harder to read.

Closing his eyes, he felt water squeeze between his tightly pressed eyelids and suddenly, as if it had been only waiting for him to look away, Time the creeper leapt brazenly forward, resuming its usual, hurried pace.

I might trim off the part after “forward,” but that’s just me.

Her scream ringing in his ears, Swaglord opened his eyes just as the rogue finished her leap, bringing her down onto the ground between the highlanders and the badly wounded horse, which wasted no time in galloping away the moment it felt free of its happenstance anchor.

“Felt free” seems like it should be “felt itself free.”

The daggers were not meant for me…

Given how the chapter before this ends, this sort of step back in Swaglord’s thinking was a little confusing to me. Of course, if you’ve changed the ending of the previous chapter, I suppose this might not matter.

Springing to her feet, her daggers flashed again seeming to rip a scream out of the beast nearest to her as it clutched at a deep gash just above and behind its elbow.

There should be a comma after “again.”

This time she backpedaled, waited, then leapt straight up into the air as the lumbering giant lurched through the empty space she had occupied only a moment before.

I like the rogue’s trick here, but the description sounded a little off to me, since “as” implies a simultaneity of actions that doesn’t really work with the rogue jumping and the giant walking through her empty space. Something like “...as the lumbering giant neared, letting it lurch through...” might be clearer, even if it is wordier. I’d also drop “waited” because it doesn’t seem to change the sentence at all.

The third soon pried itself out of the hard pack and moved to join them.

“Hard pack” sounded weird to me, though I think I know what you meant. Looking for another wording is probably a rather trivial issue, anyway.

His first yank confirmed that it was the tree trunk more than him that truly had grip on his sword.

This seemed a bit awkward to me, particularly the “tree trunk more than him” part. If you do keep this as it is, I think it should also read “...had a grip on his sword.”

A dagger pierced the ground at his feet. He glanced at it, then looked back at his sword, and then back at the dagger again.

Swaglord seems to do an awful lot of pausing and back-and-forth in this early bit. Granted, he does have some reason to be confused and it doesn’t seem too out of step with the story’s tone, but given the direness of the situation and his prior training, I’d think he’d be a little quicker to take the initiative. Could be just my take on the character, though.

Now, Swaglord acted with out hesitation.

That should be “without.”

At the touch of his opponent’s weapon on his shield his warrior’s training kicked in, yielding under the blow as he prepared to shift his weight for the counter-strike.

The wording in the second part here seems off, since “yielding” makes it sound like Swaglord isn’t successfully blocking the blow.

Timing was everything: he counted instinctively, waiting for the full weight of the impact to pass—a tempo as his academy instructors had called it—he pulled his shield back to his chest and answered as he had so many times before: two powerful, lightning quick slashes, tracing a perfect “X” across his opponent’s vital areas.

The “he” after the insert should be “then,” I believe. Otherwise, there’re two subjects in the sentence.

The surprised giant looked down at its chest and then up at the equally surprised knight. Swaglord looked at the dagger and then up at the giant.

A good moment, I thought, though the up/down in these two sentences could be minimized a little, perhaps.

It was at that moment that he realized how brutish the creatures truly were.

I’d cut this sentence because it blurs the line a bit between Swaglord’s thoughts and the narrator’s words. Besides, what you have right after this seems like enough.

Finding himself completely off-balance, he hurtled across the ground barely managing to stay on his feet until he ran right into another highlander.

There should be a comma after “ground.”

It looked straight into his eyes for a long moment and then dropped pitifully down toward its belly.

Grammatically, the giant is doing the dropping down toward its belly, which is a rather confusing image. If you meant that to be just its eyes, I’d reword this so that “it” isn’t the subject of the sentence.

Without realizing it, Swaglord had put his weapon hand out in front of him to brace himself for the collision. Following the creatures gaze down to his hand, he saw his fist pressed up against the creature’s belly, with no sign of the diminutive blade.

I might switch the order of these sentences, since the first here sort of describes the logical conclusion of the second. Also, “creatures” in the second sentence should be “creature’s,” which might be reason enough to change the second instance of that, before “belly,” to “its.”

With a roar, it plucked him off like a mosquito, holding him in mid air by the neck.

“Midair” is one word (either as written here or with a hyphen, I think.)

Just as he got both feet beneath him he felt the rogue tap him on the shoulder.

There should be a comma after “him.”

Swaglord turned toward the giant, just steps away, lumbering toward him.

I’d reword this slightly to something like “turned to see the giant, just steps away...” since it wasn’t evident previously that the giant was chasing the rogue.

As the creature closed on him his mind went blank.

There should be a comma after “him.”

He found himself staring at the giant’s bulbous belly, bouncing with each of its heavy steps; he knew what to do.

I don’t know if setting off “he knew what to do” works here, since it doesn’t seem like something that needs emphasis or stands well on its own, so I might try to reword this part to something a little smoother. It also feels a little repetitive to me.

As the giant ran into him, he raised his shield high against the creature’s weapon arm and slid the full measure of the dagger into the right side of the beast’s soft mid section.

“Midsection” is one word.

The stars came out again and he decided he had better finish it quickly.

I might reword “he decided...” because it seems rather calculated and removed from the action, and this definitely feels like it should be a time of more immediate response on Swaglord’s part.

The giant retreated unsteadily, raising its club seemingly in self defense.

“Self-defense” is one hyphenated word.

She taunted it, showing it her blades and waving them threateningly until she goaded it into a half hearted swing.

“Half-hearted” is one hyphenated word.

It stood there for several seconds, blinking at the decorated, black and silver handles sticking up out of its body. It made a gurgling sound. Then it closed its eyes and began to teeter, ever so slowly, wobbling in slow circles before finally falling dead to the ground.

This felt repetitive to me, though I didn’t mind the fact that you stretched the moment out some. Changing the sentence structures a bit here might help with keeping out a list-like feeling. There should also not be a comma after “decorated.”

In a few moments he felt a light weight on his chest.

Back where they started, eh? Nice little move there.

Overall, I thought this was pretty good, though it did seem a little on the wordy side as a whole. There were definitely some good moments here, such as Swaglord’s too-short attack, though the battle itself felt a touch lower on the pacing than I expected, perhaps because of the aforementioned wordiness. Still, it was interesting and certainly didn’t devolve into hack and slash, so that’s a good sign indeed. I do intend to get to more chapters if I can. Sorry this is so late, and thanks for posting!

RevenantsKnight

24-12-2007, 22:12

On Part 8: a nice breather in the action here, I’d say, with some good character details and dialogue. Kass’s voice did seem a little inconsistent at times, though; I get the feeling that it’s been evolving since the beginning of the story, which is probably most of it. That aside, this is still a good read. Some specific comments:

Swaglord himself remembered little more than waking up and seeing the gently distorted face of his dear friend through the crystal clear water.

Though initially a little confusing, I think this works pretty well as a way to add in backstory. The quick setting switch might just be something to accept, I guess.

“I’ve got you,” were the sweetest words he had every heard.

That should be “ever heard.”

Waking, Swaglord inhaled the vapors of his quickly fading dream, still warm and comforting even over the stretch of so many years.

Nice description.

Against the blur, amid the vapors, he hovered on the lip of a vivid memory that called to him like a long lost friend.

This seems like maybe a little much on the telling here, though it does make Swaglord’s thoughts pretty clear. I might try to find a more compact way of getting this across, if you have the time and don’t think I’m just spewing insanity.

He blinked again, rubbed his eyes, and raised his head up off the dirt, squinting. “Oh,” he said, “it’s you.”

Personally, I think this is fine, though some might be put off by the fact that you don’t actually describe what Swaglord sees. If you don’t think it’s a major concern, this is probably worth ignoring.

“Look, knight!—“

I think the dash (or whatever it is) goes before the exclamation mark.

She released his hair and let the hand with the dagger slide away from this face.

Aside from the dialogue, the sentences in this paragraph read a bit like a list of actions, given their similar, series-like structures. I’d consider rewording one or two, perhaps the first or second.

“Your guild name?” he asked, taking a breath with some effort, the rogue floating up and down as his lungs filled and then emptied.

I guess it’s fantasy-esque, so it’s less eyebrow-raising, but unless I’m mistaken, people can’t really make a hundred-plus pounds sitting on their chest move perceptibly with their breathing. It’s quite possible that I could be wrong, though...I don’t really want to test that. Maybe Swaglord’s just got a really ripped diaphragm. :smiley:

“Kass? Kass…” He said, with a puzzled look.

I think “he” should be in lowercase.

Swaglord immediately filled his lungs and raised himself up far enough to turn and lean on one elbow “A nice name, Kass—.”

I don’t think you need the period after the dash, which is fortunate because there should be one after “elbow.”

“Well, it’s… uh, it’s… Swaglo—” he said, stopped before he quite finished saying it.

Unless you mean to say that something else stopped Swaglord from speaking, “stopped” should be “and stopped,” or something like that.

“You’re mother give you that?”

Typo: that should be “Your.”

“Yes, it’s still there,” she said rolling her eyes, and the milky glow coming from deep inside the cuff confirmed that it was.

There should be a comma after “said.”

“I mean, this whole situation has gotten so complicated!” she said, bending forward and putting her head in her hands.

This sounded a bit too formal for Kass, compared to the rest of her dialogue in this chapter. It does, though, sound more like earlier chapters, so I’m not entirely sure what to make of it. More on this shortly...

“A little while. I dunno. Long enough for me to tend to Heavenstone. She’s pretty banged up. I don’t think it’s too serious, but I won’t be riding her for a while, and I should get her to a town soon.”

As an example, I don’t recall any other dialogue of this sort prior to this chapter, with shorter bits of conversation and more informality. At least to me, she seems more childish and less sophisticated than in previous pieces, so this felt a bit odd. Granted, her relationship to Swaglord has changed quite a bit in a hurry, but this seems a little extreme, and with some other changes such as her lack of Spanish, it feels more than just a shift in her perspective on Swaglord. Since this isn’t exactly on the cutting edge of your story, my apologies if you’ve worked this out in pieces since this one.

“I got her when I was just a girl. And I always loved them. And I loved her so much, right away, that’s what I called her. It’s stupid…’

I’m not sure what “them” refers to in the second sentence. Also, the closing quotation marks should be doubled.

Kass stood up easily in a swift, graceful movement and stood facing him.

As much as I’m prone to doing this too, sometimes, “easily,” “swift” and “graceful” seems like a little much for describing this one action.

Swaglord's eyes narrowed, flitting from the dart to the horizon, looking left and then scanning right, stopping at three points in between.

This sentence feels a little unwieldy to me, though that could just be me...it might be worth trying to compress it a little, if you can describe the motion of Swaglord’s eyes in something more compact.

He looked over his shoulder and as his face came again to the fore it wore a look grave seriousness.

Typo: should be “...a look of grave seriousness.”

“Don’t worry, Kassandra,” he whispered, “I’ve got you.

“And I won’t let go.”

This is definitely subjective, and maybe I’m just totally out in left field, but I don’t think that the parallel you’re drawing here between Kass and Swaglord’s friend works because there isn’t enough of a basis yet. I mean, Swaglord doesn’t seem to see them on equal levels, and he certainly hasn’t known Kass for very long, either. From outside the story, too, it seems sudden because you just introduced it as something that meant a lot to Swaglord, so bringing it back right here feels a bit forced. It’s a nice way to close the loop, as it were, but I just don’t know if you’ve given it enough time to play out between the two characters yet for it to really have the impact it could.

Generally, I thought this was pretty good, and a nice transitional piece between storylines (presumably.) Though there’re a few things here that might benefit from a little more revision, I like where this is headed and I’ll try to get to more when I can. Thanks for posting!

0xDEADCAFE

27-12-2007, 16:13

Hey, Rev. Nice to see you weaving your way through the threads again. I appreciate your comments. Details follow.

The opening paragraph here seemed a bit slow for an opening to me; It's definitely intended to be a "slow" opening. I'm trying to portray him as being in a kind of mental time warp where things seem to be going in slow motion. So the opening bang that I'm going for here is not one of fast action, per se, but of a strong image and its emotional impact. Not that it succeeded, by any means, and in retrospect it may have been a stretch to even try to do that. For most of part 7, Swag is supposed to be in a bit of a fog while action happens fast and furious around him. Upon rereading the chapter, however, it seems like the writing itself is a bit foggy.

Also, “reaping bird” sounded odd to me, since the literal image doesn’t really work. Okay, though I'm not sure what literal image you would be referring to. This was either going to be poetic or purple, one or the other. Judging from your reaction, it would seem the latter. What can I say? Her arms were spread wide like wings, the daggers in her hands were glinting dramatically in the sun, not quite like scythes, perhaps, but certainly she was poised to be a reaper of sorts, or at least the bringer of a grim harvest.

This is probably a subjective thing, but I didn’t like this bit because it stretches the moment out too much without adding anything. Also, the capitalization seemed very odd to me, which I suppose made it a bit harder to read. Yeah. This comment was in regard to: "Closer—So Slowly—Nearer—Almost time now. . ." That's more of me trying to portray Swag's mental fudge and instead making a hash of the writing. Bon appetit!

Given how the chapter before this ends, this sort of step back in Swaglord’s thinking was a little confusing to me. Of course, if you’ve changed the ending of the previous chapter, I suppose this might not matter.I could use a bit more explanation of this one. One of the last things Swag thinks in the previous chapter is "Are they for me?" in reference to the daggers. How is it that "The daggers were not meant for me… " at the start of this chapter is a non-sequiter? Maybe what is hanging you up is the idea that Swag could think that she might be trying to kill him and still be glad to see her. But that's exactly what I was going for. And this is really the start of a change in Swag's attitude toward Kass.

The turning point was in the chapter in which he almost chokes her to death. He went too far and as a result felt a shock of revulsion toward his own actions. He feels guilty about that. Plus, when he left her she was tied up and consequently in grave peril. Thus he was happy to see that she was alive and reasonably certain that she might want to kill him as payback. (I can see that I'm going to have to publish a Cliff Notes version of this story.)

On a serious note. How much of this sort of thing really needs to be explained by the author? I guess I presume that the reader can fill some things in on their own and that it is actually more fun for them to do so. Granted, readers may interpret things in different ways, and some, as in your case, may find no satisfactory explanation at all for some changes. I guess that's a risk you take. But on the other hand, how interesting is it to have a narrator give a blow-by-blow description of why a person's mind changes?

Swaglord seems to do an awful lot of pausing and back-and-forth in this early bit. Granted, he does have some reason to be confused and it doesn’t seem too out of step with the story’s tone, but given the direness of the situation and his prior training, I’d think he’d be a little quicker to take the initiative. Could be just my take on the character, though.Actually, this is pure Swag. He's more of an action hero than a rocket scientist. Impressive one he gets going, he is sometimes a bit slow to react to a sudden change. Plus he has a penchant for daydreaming on the job.

The wording in the second part here seems off, since “yielding” makes it sound like Swaglord isn’t successfully blocking the blow.Think about it: the giant's much bigger and stronger than Swag. Blocking the blow would probably result in a broken arm or worse. Better to bend than break.

It stood there for several seconds, blinking at the decorated, black and silver handles sticking up out of its body. It made a gurgling sound. Then it closed its eyes and began to teeter, ever so slowly, wobbling in slow circles before finally falling dead to the ground.
This felt repetitive to me, though I didn’t mind the fact that you stretched the moment out some. Changing the sentence structures a bit here might help with keeping out a list-like feeling. There should also not be a comma after “decorated.”I actually really like this, but you may have a point about the sentence structure. There's always room for improvement.

And by the way, thanks for the many other comments about structure. This is a very action packed chapter and I think you pointed out a bunch of places where the description could be better.

I do intend to get to more chapters if I can. Sorry this is so late, and thanks for posting!Always appreciated, but for the record, it's not late. There's no due date. And there's always lots of extra credit available. Thanks for reviewing!

On to your comments on part 8...

Kass’s voice did seem a little inconsistent at times, though; I get the feeling that it’s been evolving since the beginning of the story, which is probably most of it.There's a lot I could say about this. I went back and reread the first several chapters and I have to admit I was surprised at how different she sounded from how I have been writing her recently. I hope it's not too much of a problem because she stays this for the next 11 chapters.

This seems like maybe a little much on the telling here, though it does make Swaglord’s thoughts pretty clear. I might try to find a more compact way of getting this across, if you have the time and don’t think I’m just spewing insanity.No, I think you well captured the dilemma I often feel when writing and revising. There's definitely a tension between making something clear and over-telling. Part of the art, it seems. In this case I can see what you mean. I think that being practical about getting something written means sometimes accepting that you haven't gotten the balance exactly right. I tend to err on the side of over-telling. (As if I need to admit that.) This is probably yet another example of that.

Maybe Swaglord’s just got a really ripped diaphragm.You should see him in Spandex.

This sounded a bit too formal for Kass, compared to the rest of her dialogue in this chapter. It does, though, sound more like earlier chapters, so I’m not entirely sure what to make of it. More on this shortly...I think it's a good call. And easily fixed.

As an example, I don’t recall any other dialogue of this sort prior to this chapter, with shorter bits of conversation and more informality. At least to me, she seems more childish and less sophisticated than in previous pieces, so this felt a bit odd. Granted, her relationship to Swaglord has changed quite a bit in a hurry, but this seems a little extreme, and with some other changes such as her lack of Spanish, it feels more than just a shift in her perspective on Swaglord. Since this isn’t exactly on the cutting edge of your story, my apologies if you’ve worked this out in pieces since this one.As I mentioned above, I think you are on target. I had intended for Kass's tough exterior to melt away once she and Swag became a bit more chummy, but the change I ended up with is more than I realized. Still, it might just be this paragraph. I could probably redo it to clean this up after I figure out exactly who she is.

I’m not sure what “them” refers to in the second sentence.That would be heaven stones.

This is definitely subjective, and maybe I’m just totally out in left field, but I don’t think that the parallel you’re drawing here between Kass and Swaglord’s friend works because there isn’t enough of a basis yet. I mean, Swaglord doesn’t seem to see them on equal levels, and he certainly hasn’t known Kass for very long, either. From outside the story, too, it seems sudden because you just introduced it as something that meant a lot to Swaglord, so bringing it back right here feels a bit forced. It’s a nice way to close the loop, as it were, but I just don’t know if you’ve given it enough time to play out between the two characters yet for it to really have the impact it could.I agree that it's not a parallel, but it's not intended to be. Think of it as more of a pass-it-on thing. He once experienced an act of friendship as a profound event in his life. He now feels in a position to do the same for someone else.

The initial image of his friend melting into Kass's face may be misleading. It was intended as more of a visual coincidence than an attempt at drawing a strong parallel. That's why I had him say, "Oh, it's you," when he woke up, to break any idea that he saw Kass in the same way. Kass may be the same age as his friend was. Maybe they even look similar. It may make her more attractive to him. As for the sudden change in his feelings, again, I wouldn't think this would require much of an explanation; how long does human attraction take?

I'll admit that the "I won't let go" at the end may be laying it on a little thick. But after all he was pledging the same sort of thing to Kass's horse in the previous chapter. All I can say is that prior to this section we've only seen him reacting to Kass as a threat. This is the first time he sees her as a comrade rather than an enemy and thus we see a different side of him. But, yes, maybe it's too much or forced and maybe toning it down would be better.

Thanks for your comments.

RevenantsKnight

01-01-2008, 20:02

Just in time for the new year, a few clarifications:

Also, “reaping bird” sounded odd to me, since the literal image doesn’t really work.
Okay, though I'm not sure what literal image you would be referring to.

I guess what I meant there is that because you’re working so much on the bird image, “reaping” seems like you’re mixing in a quality that seems very out of place.

I could use a bit more explanation of this one. One of the last things Swag thinks in the previous chapter is "Are they for me?" in reference to the daggers. How is it that "The daggers were not meant for me… " at the start of this chapter is a non-sequiter?

My issue with it is simply that you answer the question “Are they for me?” in part 6, so revisiting it in 7 is confusing. I caught that the turning point was when Swaglord has his little oops with the choking; this was a much smaller issue than how you read it, I guess.

Hope that helps.

RevenantsKnight

17-01-2008, 21:27

Yes, I know I’m behind, and no, it’s not likely to get much better soon. Boo.

Anyway, on Part 9: definitely amusing, it is. For what you seem to be trying to do, this works very well; the dialogue flows nicely and most of the jokes here were worth at least a grin. The only major comment I have is that after the seriousness of the highlander-fighting, and to a degree the overall tone of the rest of the story, this level of out-and-out absurd comedy feels like it doesn’t quite belong with everything else. That aside, though, this read pretty nicely, and leaves things on a good ending note (at least, until you pick it up and start running again.) Some specific comments:

From the angle of the dart in Kass’s head, Swaglord judged the owner of that voice to be standing near the spot from where it was thrown.

I might try to pare down this sentence a bit or perhaps even work it into the preceding one, because this seems like a rather wordy way to get the point across.

“Look! It’s still stickin’ there. Right in the back’a the head.”

Maybe it’s just me, but while the rest of the story certainly has its humor, it takes most of its characters a little more seriously than the Blue family and so I wasn’t quite expecting this degree of outright silliness, or Swaglord’s sit-and-wait reaction. Once I accepted that, things were just fine, though it might throw other folks a bit more. Probably good to get a second (or third) opinion here.

“They work better in the neck,” the woman continued, “or weren’t you listening to the old man we bought ‘em from.”

The period at the end should be a question mark, even if this is a rhetorical question.

Swaglord squinted into the sun trying to locate the source of the voices.

There should be a comma after “sun.”

He had already spotted three other shadowy figures that had positioned themselves around him like points on a compass, with the nasty pair directly in front of him marking the spot at due North.

My apologies if I’m taking something figurative entirely too literally, but the “due North” bit confused me, given that Swaglord’s apparently looking into the setting sun as he searches for them, which would mean that he’s facing west. If you change this, I think it also means reshuffling later compass references, though I couldn’t be sure.

“Blue leader! It’s Blue Leader!”

The first “leader” should be capitalized, I’d think.

“Blue one,” he barked.

Another minor nitpick: “one” should be capitalized, to distinguish it as a callsign.

“Aye?” repled another man, the one Swaglord had previously spotted lingering at compass point East.

That should be “replied.”

Blue Leader slapped on one hand over his face and appeared to have gone quite rigid.

I’d reword this to remove the qualifying “appeared to have gone,” though it’s not a big problem or anything either way.

The drool running down her chin didn’t particularly worry him, he’d seen many people sleep like that, but the twitch in her right eyelid, the way her tongue was repeatedly curling and uncurling in her slack, open mouth was downright disturbing.

Grammatically, this feels a bit messy, as there’re two subjects (“the drool” and “he,”) as well as an odd verb conjugation. Because “he’d seen many people sleep like that” is really a separate sentence, I’d set it off with dashes on either side if you want to keep this all as one. As for “was downright disturbing,” I think that should technically become “were,” since it refers to two observations, and in that case, there should be an “and” instead of the comma after “eyelid.”

“Say,” he called, “what you said about brain damage…”

Swag going on with his point throughout all the chaos...:smiley:

“Sir! Yes, sir!” came the enthusiastic retort.

“Retort” suggests to me a reply that is in some way counter to the original speaker; for that reason, I’d use a different wording here.

“Gee thanks, Dad!” said Blue Two.

Hilarious...the setup for this was great.

Blue Leader stopped, shook his head, and then resumed his course back to where he started, a little slower than he had started and once again with the occasional angry fist to the forehead.

I’d see if you can’t reword this to drop one use of “started,” possibly the second one.

“On account of the blue blowhard over there,” she said, jerking her thumb in the direction of who Swaglord had by then come to assume was her husband.

If it matters, I saw nothing to assume that, though I could just be thick and I suppose the reader doesn’t necessarily need to be able to come to that conclusion independently.

“RIGHT!” shouted Blue Leader, interrupting.

“Interrupting” seems redundant, given how you set this up.

The boy smiled and bowed and then started running after the others with his armful of darts and daggers.

A minor issue, but this seems to run on a little bit, perhaps due to sentence structure.

He took off his shield and laid it down, stacked his sword on top of it, and then started to sit himself down on the soft sod where he hoped to take a long nap.

Given Swaglord’s previous concern about brain damage, his intentions here felt a little off. Certainly, it might not be a life-or-death thing just yet, but I’d think he’d approach the issue with a little more urgency.

“Me? Oh, don’t worry about me. I’m just off to pick you some flowers.”

Clever. :thumbsup:

Overall, I liked this, and it’s a nice, light-hearted wrap-up to this part of the story. While it does feel noticeably different from previous chapters, I don’t think that’s a serious problem. Thanks for posting!